Study shows nobody likes a do-gooder: selfless behaviour is 'alienating'

[snagglepuss]

snip

A series of studies found that those who volunteer to take on unwanted tasks or who hand out gifts without being prompted, quickly alienate themselves.

snip

'It doesn't matter that the overall welfare of the group is better served by someone's unselfish behaviour.

'What is objectively good, we see as subjectively bad.

'The do-gooders are also seen as deviant rule breakers. It's as if they're giving away Monopoly money so someone can stay in the game, irking other players no end.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1305716/Nobody-likes-gooder-Study-confirms-selfless-behaviour-alienating.html#ixzz0xYSCEcIN


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This study is quite eye-opening and it's conclusions are IMO true. It also explains something I've noticed most of my life and that is when people are overtly religious, selfless or generous acts are accepted at face value, however, if one doesn't appear to be religiously motivated similiar acts are met with suspicion or contempt.


In fact, I learned at quite a young age, to always frame good deeds as something I was doing to benefit myself, even though that wasn't the case at all. Once a number of years ago a close relative reprimanded me for stating that I expected people to return favours (even though I actually never expect anything in return). She went on and on how wrong it was to expect anything in return and such an attitude negated any good I might have done. Her criticism stung however I can see, after reading this study, the wisdom of downplaying anything that might be construed as unselfishness.










Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1305716/Nobody-likes-gooder-Study-confirms-selfless-behaviour-alienating.html#ixzz0xYRAx4fs

[rfranklin]

1. One fellow I know who does some selfless things...

is often questioned by others and he replies, "I do a lot of bad things. This is my way of buying insurance."

Of course, there may be a lot of truth in what he says.

[snagglepuss]

12. I think the insurance is insurance against the spite of those who have

witnessed his good deeds. By lowering himself he circumvents triggering spite in his colleagues which is something definitely worth avoiding.

[Bluerthanblue]

2. self-less behaviour is alienating because it tends to make

people feel guilty or at least uncomfortable about their own selfishness, imo.

If we could reverse this trend, it would be selfish people who would be alienated I believe.

:hi: Subvert the dominant paradigm

[lumberjack_jeff]

6. Social exchange is hardwired into us.

If I get a gift from someone, I have a psychological need to repay that "debt".

[Bluerthanblue]

11. not sure it's 'hardwired' but it is often

instilled.

In my mind, a gift gift given with strings of any kind isn't really a gift.

I'm for instilling something a little more other oriented.

:hi:

[snagglepuss]

16. If only that were true. If that were true than 1% of the world's population

wouldn't control 90% of the wealth and the super rich would gladly pay taxes.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[snagglepuss]

18. Perhaps then unselfishness is disliked because it's regarded as

'womanish' behaviour and therefore inferior?

[Rage for Order]

38. Wow.

I haven't read such a sexist comment in quite some time. How's the misandry working out for you?

[yella_dawg]

40. You got a link supporting that statement?

Or is this your man-bashing post of the day?

[proteus_lives]

64. Sexism and stereotypes on parade.

:puke:

[Rage for Order]

69. Can you imagine if the sexes were reversed in that post?

That it's been allowed to stay up for several hours is not very encouraging.

:(

[lumberjack_jeff]

4. It's an interesting study, but consider how it was structured.

They divided people into groups, arranged within an arbitrary commercial setup, and briefed one member to be greedy and another to be altruistic.

The other members wanted both the greedy and altruistic person to be kicked out.

Naturally, given the way the study was constructed, the altruistic person was enabling the greedy person to profit excessively. The altruistic person was skewing the economics.

This is why people hate walmart. Walmart controls the market by aggressively squeezing suppliers to offer the lowest prices to their happy customers.

[XemaSab]

10. Witness from teh onion:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/marxists-apartment-a-microcosm-of-why-marxism-does,1382/

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. Actually, I hate walmart because it sends production overseas in order

to reduce prices here, with the result that people without jobs here have to buy at walmart.

I remember when Sam Walton was alive, walmart prided itself of sustaining the american market by buying from american producers.

fuck em.

[readmoreoften]

46. Wow, they were reproducing the situation of most NGOs.

This study seems either too flawed or two narrow to make grandiose pronouncements about human nature.

[sandnsea]

5. They're called brown-noses

And they're disliked because they aren't "selfless" at all and everybody knows it.

[Fumesucker]

15. Your comment says far more about you than it says about anyone else..

And I thought *I* was cynical. :eyes:

[sandnsea]

17. lol, now brown-nosers don't exist

just because I said they do.

That's too funny.

Is the sky blue in your world?

[Fumesucker]

19. Sure they do..

But not everyone who does a good deed without expecting recompense is a brown-noser.

[Posteritatis]

73. If logic was an animal you'd be charged with cruelty to it. (nt)

[nashville_brook]

30. heh heh...my thought exactly.

[Bluerthanblue]

20. was Mohatmas Ghandi a 'brownnoser'?

How about Nelson Mandella's 27yrs in prison? How about MLKjr. or RFK?
Albert Schweitzer, Mother Theresa, countless others too numerous to mention, or who never made it to the media's attention.

"Schweitzer did not preach and did not warn and did not dream that his example would be an ideal and comfort to innumerable people. He simply acted out of inner necessity."

Albert Einstein

It's amazing to me that treating others with kindness is seen as a negative thing.

:shrug:

[snagglepuss]

25. Good examples of deeply empathetic people and it is empathy with

others that is at the root of selfless acts. One of the most interesting things I ever read is that the root of empathy is imagination. It is human imagination that enables people to walk in another person's shoes. Without imagination we are unable to conceive what it is like to be another person.

People without imagination can be told to be generous but such generosity lacks depth, people may see suffering but don't feel it. All the people you mention had imagination, enabling each of them to actually feel the suffering others endured and the imagination to envision something better.

[Bluerthanblue]

35. I've never considered that imagination

had that kind of influence but what you say makes a lot of sense.

thanks for helping me understand.

:hi:

[snagglepuss]

39. I too was struck when I first read about the connection. I have since learnt

that this idea began with the Romantic poets,



"A man, to be greatly good, must imagine intensely and comprehensively; he must put himself in the place of another and of many others; the pains and pleasure of his species must become his own. The great instrument of moral good is the imagination."

Perch Bysshe Shelley

[nashville_brook]

32. complete asshats -- all of them. they just wanted attention!!

:evilgrin:

[snagglepuss]

21. That is not true at all. I can recount instances at work where I have helped

people at work when is was clearly against my interest to do so. And as I have a pathological aversion to authority figures, no one would ever accuse me of brown-nosing.

[myrna minx]

53. Wow - what an awfully cynical thing to say.

I feel bad for you.

[Skittles]

72. that REALLY explains a lot about you

[skypilot]

7. This might explain the behavior of...

...my former supervisor and some of my current coworkers. I work in a university library. I don't think of myself as a do-gooder here but I do enjoy the work and have since I started. I could always tell that it got under my supervisor's skin. He was always trying to discourage me from working and doing things that really needed to be done. I know he talked about me to some of our coworkers and some of them still act very wary of me. Fuck 'em. I enjoy coming to work and I'm not sorry that I'm not as miserable as they are.

[potassiumnitrate]

8. Yeah, no shit

That might explain every ex girlfriend I've ever had.

[Odin2005]

9. I call BS on this study.

[opihimoimoi]

13. me too...its a wonderful world we live in...only if we make it so

[BanzaiBonnie]

23. Not all science is good science

and not every study is a good study.


I don't know how this experiment was set up, but set up can certainly skew the results to get a particular answer.

[snagglepuss]

26. Care to expand?

[Odin2005]

42. It smacks of RW bullshit.

[snagglepuss]

45. The study doesn't condone the behaviour. In fact it actually explains why

progressives, socialists, FDR democrats get trashed by the very people whose lives have been vastly improved by people dedicated to helping humanity.

[Odin2005]

62. DOH, good point. That's what I get for skimming!

[snagglepuss]

66. I've done the same thing myself on some threads. The strange thing

is that alot of others on this thread are dissing the study is RW trash. I thought DUers would be jumping up and down in glee because this study offers a rational explanation why progressives, socialists etc are so hated. :hi:

[tjwash]

14. That sounds like some bullshit the CATO institute would come up with.

nt

[EFerrari]

43. Yep

[Overseas]

50. That's what I thought. Right wing PR machinery at work.

They really want to make compassion less popular. Who needs to help the damn poor and sick?

[snagglepuss]

57. Given your incurious, uninformed kneejerk reaction, I'm surprised you don't

work for CATO.

[SheilaT]

24. That study does not seem to reflect

what actually goes on in the real world.

I figured out a long time ago that if I do a good deed, or if I give someone a gift, it's best to do those things without any expectation at all of anything in return. Once I got over expecting a good deed or gift back, I was free to do what I wanted. And there's a lot of painless, good things I can do for others.

I've notice that those who expect things done in return seem to wind up feeling entitled, and then very crabby when they don't get what they think they're entitled to.

[snagglepuss]

31. The study does not address the issue of giving and not expecting something in

return. The study looked at how people precieve others who are seen being overtly selfless.

[ixion]

27. Humans: Yep, we're just that stupid

This is the same reason girls don't like 'nice' guys.

Niceness, consideration, enlightenment is seen as something of a pox in our society.

[libodem]

28. As I aways say:

No good deed goes unpunished.

[snagglepuss]

36. spot on. nt

[mopinko]

49. i was hoping no one said this, so i could. it is the story of my life.

seriously, i have attracted some hard core enemies by working hard for collective causes. i swear i am not an ass about it or anything. it is just amazing.

[snagglepuss]

60. I am surprised posters here are claiming this to be RW PR. People who

like yourself have worked their butts off for the greater good have historically been on the receiving end of hostility, derided as 'bleeding heart liberals' etc. How many people receiving SS or Medicare express gratitude for hundreds of people sacrificing their lives to bring such programs into existence? The Left gets nothing but grief for their tireless efforts to improve the common good. I think the 4 studies that lead to the study's conclusion offers a clear and rational explanation why this is so.

[MilesColtrane]

29. Welcome to AynRandlia.

I don't care if you enjoy your stay...as long as I'm good.

[Lisa0825]

33. Nice people and brown-nosers are two different sets of people.

I know who is nice and hepful, and who I can count on when I need something here at work.

I also know who is scheming and devious and does things "for" me without telling me until after the fact... things I really SHOULD be doing myself.... just so she can announce to others what she has "helped" me with to make herself look good and me look bad. Last time she pulled that, I responded politely (in front of others at the staff meeting) that had she passed along the message to me as the other party had requested, I would have preferred to have taken care of the issue myself since it was one of my areas of responsibility.

There is nothing altruistic at all motivating that individual.

[DailyGrind51]

34. Oprah, Mother Theresa, and Princess Diana all suffered criticism for their practice of "giving back"

[Maeve]

37. I'd like to know more about the subjects

College students are frequently used for research like this--and they aren't always "typical" of "human behavior". A lot more trials would be needed to generalize the results and the story is too limited to be taken as evidence of anything.

[rocktivity]

41. Alienation? I think it has more to do with guilt-tripping.

If do-gooders are indeed generally unpopular, it's more likely because people get annoyed by the reminder that they don't measure up, and feel guilty that they don't do enough good themselves.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[Canuckistanian]

44. Perhaps the Monopoly analogy is a clue

If someone helps another, less fortunate person, it might increase your competition for limited resources.

It might be a remnant of more "primitive" times.

[snagglepuss]

63. Yes I think that is very true. It also explains why workplaces can drive one

crazy. I think I am correct to say all workplaces tell employees teamwork is valued above all, however, how many people actually place the team's interest before themselves? One is a fool it seems if one considers one's colleagues as teammates rather than competitors. If you do put the 'team' before yourself, you'll be resented and accused of brown-nosing. The reality of most workplaces is to look out for yourself and let competitors fall by the wayside:(

[Matariki]

47. And nobody *trusts* The Daily Mail

[Matariki]

48. Parks led the research entitled 'The Desire to Expel Unselfish Members from the Group.'

How is it honest research when the project name already draws a conclusion!?

[Mendocino]

51. "With malice toward none,

and charity for all."

Abe Lincoln took a bullet to the head for spouting such nonsense.

[Dorian Gray]

52. That's bizarre

I am inspired by people who do unselfish things as I truly believe that they aren't done all that often these days.

[devilgrrl]

54. More Right Wing Bullshit from the Daily Fishwrap UK

eom

[lolly]

55. Well, there is one kind of "nice" I can't stand

I'm not sure if it fits into the formula in the study, but "rose-colored glasses" people really drive me nuts.

People who can't see when something is wrong or when somebody else is screwing other people do make it harder for the rest of us. Maybe the failure of goody-two-shoes types to recognize the greed of the other participant is what made everybody annoyed.

[libodem]

58. Hmmmm?

Food for thought.

[DireStrike]

56. I will have to take this into account

I do keep my selfless actions quiet, usually, but I thought that was also part of the same general impulse. Maybe I was subconsciously picking up on this. I'll have to work harder at it.

[LeftishBrit]

59. First of all, do NOT trust the Daily Mail on any scientific reporting. (Or on anything else.)

They sensationalize everything; and are also very right-wing. They look down on 'softies' and 'do-gooders' themselves, so are likely to interpret things in that light.

I have not yet read the original study. But from the way that it's described, it sounds quite likely that the participants were given a task with implicit or explicit rules; and that those who played by other rules were seen as suspect or 'not playing properly', even if this gave an immediate advantage to the team-mates. In a less rule-bound situation, generosity might evoke quite a different reaction.

[TheKentuckian]

61. The Human Race: The only way to win is not to run

Or at least forget the human aspect.

[Prometheus Bound]

65. Nobody likes a selfish colleague: Study confirms selfish behaviour is 'alienating'

The study did show this, after all. The Daily Mail chose to emphasize the other finding.

[Quantess]

67. From the dailymail.co.uk

Which takes away a lot of credibility.

[snagglepuss]

68. How does an article in the DM detract from a series U of Washington studies

published in a Journal of Social Pyschology? The Economist also published an article about the study, so I suppose that makes the study credible.

[Quantess]

71. Oh, I didn't see that there were other, more credible sources.

But maybe next time you will choose a more credible source as the first link, since most people only have time to click on one.
And yes, sorry, dailymail.co.uk tends to be a barge full of crap on a daily basis.

[MrScorpio]

70. Human civilization has a self-destructive streak a mile long nt

[McCamy Taylor]

74. What if participants spotted the "phony" behavior of the plants and that was

what made them suspect they were up to no good. Lots of people are bad at lying and lots of people can spot a liar.

In my experience, if someone honestly wants to encourage their group to work together towards a goal, everyone will pitch in.

Also, how much of this was cultural? I am a woman from Texas. Maybe a man from London behaves differently. Maybe the subjects were starving people off the streets who really needed the food.

Psychological studies are so riddled with bias and confounders it is hard to learn anything from most of them.