Why is the South, and the Midwest, so conservative?

[raccoon]

I think some of it may have to do with both areas having traditionally been agrarian societies.

But then, there were farmers in New England, and CA...I don't know what it is.

Some would say, because the people in these areas are more religious. But to me that's kind of circular. Are they conservative because they're religious or religious because they're conservative? And New England was settled by many who came because of their religion (seeking tolerance), yet New England is fairly progressive.

Your Ideas?

[marmar]

1. The Midwest is a big region......

The Great Lakes is part of the midwest, but largely votes Democratic.....Maybe you shouldn't generalize so much.

[raccoon]

7. I am aware there are areas such as the Twin Cities which are progressive.

Maybe you shouldn't be so judgemental.

[marmar]

8. Dude, you posted the broad-brush OP, not me.

nt

[raccoon]

14. Have a nice day. nt

[marmar]

16. Arrogant for pointing out a generalization? Umm, okay.

nt

[blue_onyx]

44. You're the one being judgmental

The west isn't that progressive (Utah, Arizona, Idaho). Why aren't asking why the west is so conservative? Even states like CA aren't as progressive as some think (ex: prop. 8).

[mmonk]

2. Do you mean the deep south and the mountain west?

Racism.

[Orrex]

3. Being religious does not, in itself, require one to be conservative

However, if you're the sort of pseudo-Christian who's never read the bible and who believes that Jesus was first and foremost a lily-white homophobic bigot who drives an SUV, the I suppose that you might in that case be inclined to vote Republican.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Demeter]

5. Look Up the Term "Borderers"

http://dissidentvoice.org/Jan05/Bageant0126.htm

[SharonAnn]

13. Wow! Great article! I'm here in East Tennessee, amon "The Borderers".

This article explains a lot.

[Demeter]

17. It Surely Does

Even had some of them intermarry with our stolid Polish stock--but we divorced them.

[raccoon]

15. Thanks for the link. nt

[ipfilter]

29. Very interesting.

I feel like I'm reading an essay on the entire state of Oklahoma.

[AngryAmish]

30. So is it cultural or genetic?

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. Cultural

I highly recommend this

http://www.amazon.com/Deer-Hunting-Jesus-Dispatches-Americas/dp/030733936X

[CanonRay]

32. Awesome article

I've never seen it before, you should just post it seperately if it hasn't been done. I sent it out to some friends. Boy, is he spot on.

[Mudoria]

43. That may be dumbest thing I ever wasted a few minutes reading..

[supernova]

46. Deserves its own OP

[XemaSab]

52. These are "my people"

but we're all Democrats. Must be the Swedish blood. :shrug:

[The Midway Rebel]

63. Oh yes, the famed Celtic Thesis: A Great Crock o'Crap.

The historian Grady McWhiney first proposed that "Celtic Thesis" to explain Southern behaviors and actions back in the 1950's.

That theory does not consider the huge immigration of Irish into Northern cities nor that the Southern planter class had much more in common, ancestrally and culturally, to the English gentry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grady_McWhiney

It makes a swell story with a small grain of truth to it but mostly it is complete bullshit. Baegant leans heavily on McWhinney's faulty theory with a mixtrue of quaint anecdotes to make an article that perpetuates the "Celtic Thesis".

I'd take it with a grain of salt.

[Uncle Joe]

66. At least part of that doesn't match up with history as I know it, the mountain areas of

Eastern Tennessee, West Virginia and Western North Carolina were sections of the South most sympathetic to the Union.

The column also jumps too a far ahead in casting blame on this group of people regarding the Jim Crow era which actually began in 1896 with Plessy vs Ferguson and I would venture to say few of the "borderers" committing the United States to this tragic policy had sufficient power at that time in any branch of government.

One other thing I didn't care for was the implicit trashing of people; just because they live in mobile homes.

I do believe some of the column was a fascinating read but it paints too broad a brush for my taste.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. I recommend his book too

[Canuckistanian]

92. That's remarkable

He draws a straight, solid line from the "Scots-Irish Borderers" to the trailer parks of Viginia.

I wonder if that same bloodthirstiness could be found in the two World Wars?

[sinkingfeeling]

6. Religion has a lot to do with it. Fundamentalism is a denial of change as is conservatism.

[mike r]

9. Define 'Midwest'. You can't compare the upper Midwest to the Deep South

For example, notwithstanding their GOP dickheads, Iowa is a very progressive state. Minnesota has a strong liberal history, despite the pathological Michele Bachmann.

[Greybnk48]

41. Wisconsin has always been progressive

and has been trending blue for years.

[emmadoggy]

97. Yes. Thank you. nt

[depakid]

10. The death of populism

[blogslut]

11. Isolation

Really, it's not so much about north, south, east or west. It's about rural vs. urban. The more people are isolated from each other, the more likely they are to be apprehensive about diversity and more inclined to adhere to fundamentalist ideologies.

[Erose999]

18. I think religion does play into it and it has a historical context. In the Northeast there was a

strong Quaker tradition that was socially progressive. In the South, we had the Southern Baptists who used religion to rationalize slavery.

And then, because of slavery and the economic tensions in its aftermath as the South industrialized we had Jim Crow. Whites in the South were generally progressive (at least toward other Whites), as the South probably benefited from FDR probably more than any other region of the country. But by the time the civil rights era came around, as the Dixiecrats fell out of favor to more racially-progressive Dems and the GOP began courting the racists with the "southern strategy". Most racists southerners adopted conservatism because it's message parroted their racist beliefs.

[blogslut]

23. Yes

But, on a global level, people who live in rural areas are almost always wary of those who step outside the locally designated norm.

[KansDem]

22. I agree...

Folks who live in large metropolitan areas need to embrace tolerance of others, in order to "get along." I think therein lies the seeds of progressiveness.

On the other hand, folks who live in isolated areas tend to keep to themselves and are thusly "conservative," as "their way is the only way."

Having lived in both kinds of environments, I can say that conservatives in populated areas are more like moderates than conservatives in rural areas.

I remember living in small town Kansas for a couple of years and observing the "pecking order" in the community: Usually older, white men (60+) who have been members of the local church all their lives. Then comes the "Lieutenants": guys in their 30s or 40s waiting to move up into "community patriarch" status. After that come the women and children...

About 20 years ago I visited my mom in a small, rural Kansas town. There was this "gentleman" who was in his 70s or so who never missed an opportunity to tweak my whiskers (I had a beard) when he saw me at social events. He was definitely establishing the "pecking order" by dismissing my right to privacy--of denying me my "own space" and reinforcing his "alpha male" status.

I would've liked to have hauled off and popped the SOB and laid him out on the dirt, but refrained from doing so due to respect for my mom.

Piss on small, rural Kansas towns and their fucking "pecking order."

[ipfilter]

24. That's a pretty good description of any small town in rural America.

I live in a town of around 45K in an otherwise rural area and this sort of pecking order is alive and well here.

[proteus_lives]

59. Really? I think he's being stereotypical because of personal experiences.

I've live in many small towns. Not the same at all.

[KansDem]

69. "I've live in many small towns."

That must eat up you gas...

[proteus_lives]

71. Walking is key.

It's good exercise.

[MrScorpio]

48. If that old fuck tried that tweaking shit in Detroit, he'd get shot

There's a pretty good reason why people are generally cordial to each other here... Survival.

[proteus_lives]

60. Oooh, a gangsta would bust a cap in his ass.

:rofl:

Stereotype vs. stereotype. This is great.

[Demeter]

78. Amen!

As a native daughter of the Motor City, I concur. People in urban communities get along, or they get taken out.

And Michigan is a good example of both the Progressive Northeast and the Regressive redneck South. A lot of people still came up to Michigan for the jobs...even as late as the 70's, and brought their Southern culture with them.

[proteus_lives]

57. "Folks who live in large metropolitan areas need to embrace tolerance of others"

Yeah, that's all cities. Bastions of tolerance and love.

:eyes:

[KansDem]

68. I didn't say anything about "love," did I?

When you have strangers and entire families living one wall from each other, you learn to get along. You may not like them much, but you tolerate them. You keep your comments (and your hands) to yourself. You might even develop an empathy for them.

Not the same in small town USA. If you're perceived as being different, you're an outcast. The patriarchal pecking order is very prevalent in rural towns. And the "patriarchs" will "remind" you with their childish, boorish manner...

[proteus_lives]

72. Not really.

You think apartments don't exist in small towns?

You ignore neighborhoods and streets.

Plenty of empathy in small towns, I should know.

You've let a bad experience lead you to stereotypical thinking.

Neither small towns or big cities are to be painted with one brush.

[KansDem]

73. You get empathy in small towns in church on Sunday...

The rest of the week they're talking about you behind your back.

[proteus_lives]

75. And you know this how?

I could tell you a thousand stories of kindness and empathy in small towns.

But I'm guessing you would choose not to see.

You consider moving past stereotypes.

[KansDem]

79. "You consider moving past stereotypes."

Yeah, like the old fart who thought since I had a beard it was okay to tweak it. Small-town folk need to move past stereotypes that don't fit their image of white-bread America. And they need to keep their thoughts and hands to themselves.

I'm all for moving past stereotypes, so please enlighten me with one of the "thousand stories of kindness and empathy in small towns."

I'm waiting...

[proteus_lives]

80. Your long wait is over.

Shall I tell you of my grandma's neighbor who tutored me for free in the summer?

Shall I tell you of the funky artists that lived in a small New Mexican town and were always willing to share their work and fire with us?

Shall I tell you of a old Mexican man who ran a gas station and let us roller-skate around the aisles despite store policy?

Shall I tell you of shucking corn with the Mennonites who would offer work and food to anyone who knocked on their door?

Shall I tell you of when I worked for the Census and the friendliest people where in the small farming communities and the rudest were in the college area of the city? Lots of great stories there.

Or of the small Texas town next to the Gulf with the best grills.

Shall I tell you of hikes in the Arizonan desert? Tales of the deserted mining towns and old folks with the best stories?

But you know what? I've encountered plenty of jerks too. Same with the cities. Good people and bad.



You may not understand this yet but I learned you can't judge a whole by the minority. You can't judge one place because you had a bad experience in another.

BTW, have you ever considered the old fella might have been trying to be friendly? Or is the chip on your shoulder too big to consider that?

[KansDem]

83. You don't put your fingers in someone else's beard to be "friendly"

But I still wonder about the intolerance displayed by small, rural communities toward "outsiders." Folks outside their religion, ethnicity, race, politics, sexual orientation, etc.

Your stories are charming, but I still wonder if a person would have encountered the pleasantries you described if he were an "outsider."

[proteus_lives]

86. FYI.

I was the "outsider" in about half of those examples. Sometimes it's about you, not them.

"You don't put your fingers in someone else's beard to be "friendly"

Are you sure? Did you ask anyone about this man? Did you see him interact with anyone else?

[npk]

95. Dude you should really stop

You are the one who is starting to come across as the one who is not very tolerant, by trying to portray smaller towns and rural areas as hot beds for bigotry. Both large cities and small towns have issues with intolerant people.

[LTX]

89. What a load of hogwash.

LA, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, New York, Houston, et al. have distinctly segregated neighborhoods, where "tolerance" is often defined as not crossing the line into a neighborhood where you aren't, in fact, tolerated.

You might find the following on historic patterns of ethnic segregation and ghettoizing in cities to be of interest:

http://129.3.20.41/eps/urb/papers/0408/0408006.pdf

And contrary to your thesis of "big cities tolerant" and "small towns intolerant," small towns, north and south, often have vastly greater economic and racial integration than big cities, for the simple reason that they are, well, small.

Then you have all those medium and medium-large towns/cities to deal with. You know, the Sheboygan's and Chattanooga's and Portland's and Raleigh's. Those pesky things really mess up your thesis.

[npk]

93. This post makes me laugh

Large cities = more tolerance. Oh my. Oh my indeed.

[PJPhreak]

82. Ding!Ding!Ding! We Have a Winner!!

I live in one of these small Eastern Kansas Towns.

Add to this the underfunded schools,the total lack of Information,(We are one of only three households that have the Internet in my town) add a dose of Isolation and the fact that one can only get AM radio and Bingo...You have Totally Uninformed People who actually belive that the spew that Todd "The Teagagger Tiahart or Jerry "Get a Brain" Moran says is the Truth!

[KansDem]

87. Hi, Virgil Kansas!

I lived in Strong City/Cottonwood Falls, and in the booming metropolis of Emporia for two years.

You description is quite apt!

:hi:

(Is the population of Virgil really 99? Strong City/Cottonwood Falls has 868 and 1,222 respectively, and CF is the county seat!)

[PJPhreak]

88. Actually its 103,lol

and we as far,as we can tell are the only Liberal/Progressives here.

Sometimes its fun,sometimes not so much.It get very disheartening watching these folk vote for their own self destruction...as in Jerry "Get a Brain" Moran.

[depakid]

28. Populists have always been racists and isolationists

What they haven't been is self destructively corporatist.

[SoCalDem]

81. and clannish behavior that is common in communities that are isolated

The "people like us" vs "the other", often blurs lines. If you live in a small isolated community where everyone knows everyone, and many times are related to each other, a common church/belief system is likely.

In stressful times, these "close bonds" can become toxic:(

[fasttense]

12. I live in the South and they are very RepubliCON

I wouldn't call them conservatives.

They can quote you every right wing talking point ever created by KKKarl Rove. I quit one of the churches here because they were quoting the talking points from the pulpit.

It is because they are inundated with hate radio and rarely watch anything besides Fox Noise.

Most farmers don't make a ton of money so they don't buy the fancy satellite radios and stream their shows off the internet. Heck, half the people who live here don't even have any access to cable or high speed internet. The mountains block signals and the ground is so rocky it's tough to put in ground cables.

So, mostly what we get to listen to while we plow the fields is talk radio filled with hate. Do you believe I use to listen to Dr. Laura about 5 years ago. It was the only station I could pick up in my area. Now I live stream off the internet (I'm one of the lucky few who has cable).

If the Democratic party would invest in getting some lefty talkers out here in rural America, you would see a change - a major change. People out here don't know what they are missing because they don't know anything but RepubliCON noise. If they had a choice they would start to change because they aren't the happiest bunch. They aren't stupid, they just don't get anything else.

[beam me up scottie]

39. "They aren't stupid, they just don't get anything else."

Well, some are stupid but most are just bombarded with hate speech on the radio and tv. All they do is parrot the rw memes.

Every person who spouts off about gay marriage quickly runs out of steam when asked a few pointed questions.

My bf's brother: "If we let gays marry, what's next, can I marry my dog?"

bmus: "Not that I'm not tickled that you're finally considering making an honest woman out of Misty, but gay and lesbian human beings are not animals. They are able to make their own decisions and their love is just as genuine as my love for your brother."

bf's brother: "They're just going to do it so that they can get medical benefits that we have to pay for."

bmus: "WTF are you talking about? If a married person adds their spouse to their employer's insurance policy, they and their employer pay for the increase. You're obviously confusing bigoted rw memes, you might want to check your talking points manual."

bf's brother: "Well, it's against the bible!"

bmus: "Really? Which parts, specifically? Can you tell me what Jesus had to say about gay relationships?"

bf's brother (all are seriously lapsed catholics) "I don't know, but it's in there."

bmus: "Well, if you're going to start following the instructions in your holy book, you need to start at home. Remember your ex-wife, the one whose very voice makes you want to repeatedly drive ice picks into your ears? Well, guess what? According to your bible, y'all are still married. So when will you be moving back in with her?"

Needless to say, bmus has not been invited back to the weekly poker game/moron fest.

So, bf has 3 brothers, 2 are students of Bill O'Reilly and 1(John) is socially liberal; bf's mother(who is religious) and step-dad are die-hard democrats and could care less if gays marry. All are suburbanites who have access to the net and news sources other than Faux.

Point being that there is hope for some of the misinformed and uneducated if they can be taught critical thinking skills.

[MineralMan]

19. Al Franken. Don't be so quick to categorize the Midwest.

How about same sex marriage in Iowa, too?

Look to your own state, and we'll look to ours.

[Goblinmonger]

26. Don't forget Feingold n/t

[marmar]

27. Or Durbin or Levin......

nt

[The Revolution]

55. or Harkin

Poor Tom never gets much attention, but I still like him :)

[mike r]

36. and the Minnesota Farmer–Labor Party

'Nuf said.

[dflprincess]

98. I wouldn't count the whole DFL

many members of it perhaps but the ones running it are the same people who colluded with the DSCC & DNC to shove Klobuchar down our throats. The ones currently in charge would just as soon forget the whole Farmer-Labor part of it.

Wellstone might have said he was a member of the Democratic wing of the party and that was true when you looked at the national party, but I also thought of him as a member of the Farmer-Labor wing of the state party.

It really is a pity that the Farmer-Laborites ever agreed to merge with the Democrats we could use that alternative now.

[saltpoint]

20. The tension in agrarian cultures to keep daughters and

sons home on the farm is significant. Cows have to be milked and the crop has to come in for there to be food on the table in February.

Robert LaFollette, though, counted among his supporters some very radicalized farmers in his political career, and in U.S. politics, LaFollette was very sufficiently Left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._La_Follette,_Sr.

Gore Vidal believes that too many hyper-fundamentalists arrived, mostly from England and Scotland, and that their punishment-centered "Christianity" became the prevailing Christianity and thus contaminated day-to-day life and thinking in the U.S. even as it betrayed the tenets of Jesus' ministry. Vidal is not kind to this distortion, calling modern-day descendants of these fundies "ubiquitous...they breed like chiggers."

If you add those two up, though, I'm not sure you get John Boehner. Or Jesse Helms. Or Dan Coats. Or Rick Perry. There seem to be some other components in the mix, too, and the closer they're examined, the more daunting progressives' work becomes.

And the more worth doing.

[msongs]

21. the overwhelming presence of a witchcraft endorsing cult? nt

[Goblinmonger]

25. Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota?

You are seriously comparing those states to the Deep South? Might want to look into it a little more before you broad brush.

[EOTE]

33. I was going to point out the same thing.

But didn't want to be called judgmental. So the OP can go on using his/her broad brush without fear of my nasty judgement.

[harun]

53. I agree, those states are Progressive and proud of it.

[get the red out]

31. Extremist Conservative Religion PLUS

a lower emphasis on education. It is the Republican producing formula.

[no_hypocrisy]

34. Part of it is the populations take pride in being different from "the Coasts",

i.e., the "Eastern Establishment" (i.e., New York City, Boston, Washington) and the West Coast (Hollywood, San Francisco with its radicals and gays, etc.). They prefer to think of themselves as pure and unblemished by politics and business and progressive ideas.

[LiberalAndProud]

35. Speaking of my state ...

Nebraska, where the west begins ...

IMHO, there are two reasons the Republican party maintains its grip. First and foremost, "my great great great great grandaddy was a Republican". The party is the team of choice. We don't much talk about politics here. The "My Team" mentality is firmly entrenched.

Secondly, the other party's anti-choice position is paramount. There is no middle ground, no room for compromise and no other issue of more importance.

ugghh

[izquierdista]

37. The further you go into the hinterland...

...the more bumpkins you run into. Bumpkins don't have much education, school was hard for them and their parents saw wisely that college tuition would be a waste of money. Bumpkins are content to do things pretty much as they have been done, because learning new things is hard. Bumpkins don't get to the big city much; when they do, they get lost and people laugh at them and somebody will try to con them. Bumpkins don't like people who speak a foreign language; they barely speak their own language and even then have trouble expressing themselves. They are more at home talking to cows or corn stalks. Bumpkins don't do much long range thinking; a tax cut that puts money in their pocket now is better than having a government project like a bridge or a dam or a highway that will bring new business and commerce to their cornfield. Whenever bumpkins run into a problem that requires thinking, they have someone else do it for them: their doctor, their pastor, or Rush (them's people who's been to college).

The best thing that will ever happen to a bumpkin is that a FreedomWorks bus will pull up and take him on a trip and make him feel like an important voter.

[LiberalAndProud]

40. I was educated with said bumpkins.

That was the most appalling thing about Bush's*pResidency. He was them in caricature.

[lib2DaBone]

38. I think the entire country has moved to the Far Right since St. Ronnie Raygun...

.. the constant bashing and demonizing the word "LIberal". The Saudi money backing Faux News and Rush. (The Saudis are behind the current wave of anti-muslim hatred).

"Corporatism" being equated with or substituted for Democracy... while the politicians raided the till. Telling people that, "they too could be part of the investor class if they work hard enough." All the while shipping jobs to china and issuing paper funny-money all over the globe.

The acceptance of Republican as the "Default" party and the media compliance in the plan.

The unleashing of the the Evangelical Haters and Nutjobs into the political process as witnessed by Sarah Palin, Malkin, Colture , Pat Robertson and others.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

42. The "Midwest" is a lot less conservative than your OP would indicate.

Considering states like INDIANA, Wisconsin, Minnesota voted Democratic in the last election, and WI and MN do so fairly reliably.

Even 2 Southern states that are usually reliable GOP voted Democratic, VA and NC, good sized states too.

A more apt question is why are an overwhelming majority of WHITE Southerners GOP, and I feel that race has a lot to do with it.

Ever since the Civil War, race has been the fault line of politics in that part of the country. It was true when the white Southerners were Dixiecrats, and it's been true since all the white Dixiecrats became GOPers overnight after the passage of the Civil Rights Act. The racial fault line has been actively stoked by the GOP for their benefit in the region since the Nixon years and the birth of the "Southern Strategy", and now they have a propaganda channel that all their people watch that is piling on the racism ever since Obama's election (New Black Panthers, Sherrod etc.) to a degree that I honestly never thought I'd see.

[marmar]

56. Forgetting Michigan and Illinois?

The deepest blue of the Midwestern states in the last election.

[One_Life_To_Give]

45. Education and Isolation

Progressive values track well with Education levels and with exposure to diversity of people and ideas. Education will expose people to other thoughts, idea's and ways of doing things so it's really part of the same removal from isolation. Many people would be confused what it meant for a man to walk about town in his native Lava-Lava. While a person who has been exposed to Polynesian culture either personally or thru literature is more likely to recognize it for what it is.

[Thirtieschild]

47. The South and the Plains is closer to the truth than the South and the Midwest..

I grew up in one (the Plains) and spent most of my adult life in the other (the South). I also have a big chunk of Borderer, a.k.a. Scots-Irish, ancestry and can recognize the look. The South, particularly the rural South, is full of Borderers, but the Plains? I'd attribute the conservatism there to no cities. If you look at the map behind Bill Maher you don't see any dots of light in the middle of the country - no cities. I remember the feeling I had as a teenager living in a small rural town on the Plains. There are so many of them and so few of us, we're so outnumbered, that what we think/feel doesn't matter. I also wonder what my politics would be if I had stayed. I can't answer that one if I'm honest with myself.

[Hosnon]

49. It's more of an urban vs. rural issue.

Wherever you are in this country, rural people are more conservative.

[okieinpain]

50. older and white. their kids grow up and move to the coasts for

better lifestyles.

[GSLevel9]

51. I've thought about it quite a lot...

and I think it's NOT the South or the MW that makes people conservative... it's the progressive people that move OUT of the area. I mean, let's be real... if you're a conservative and you're retiring... are you going to move to San Francisco or Norman, Oklahoma? Once an area is conservative it will self-propagate.

[End Of The Road]

54. Education has alot to do with it.

New England was settled by alot of East Anglian groups who, very generally speaking, respected education. That has had a lasting cultural effect. And New England had a vibrant merchant class early on. I don't know the degree to which they had "formal" educations, but they often required trained labor, so the apprentice system provided an education for many.

New England's schools are among the finest, and it remains a reasonably progressive area (well, compared to some of the rest of the country).

Many parts of the Deep South were settled by peoples from less cosmopolitan areas of England, with less education and hence less respect for it.

The Midwest has always taken pride in the "self-made" man, the one born in a log cabin teaching himself law by the light of an oil lamp and all that crap.

I think the religious baloney is secondary.

[proteus_lives]

58. Sadly, all the broad-brushes and bigotry on this thread are unsurprising.

You're all hilarious.

Railing against what you're sprouting off.

[LTX]

90. The irony on this thread does seem to have gone unrecognized, doesn't it.

For example, no one has acknowledged the obvious -- that what big cities (and internet forums) actually offer is the freedom to shop for a clique of like-minded intolerants. Say, a nice little clique of people who hate people who live in small towns in the south and midwest.

And I haven't seen anyone acknowledge that the folks in small towns they find so intolerable otherwise seem to have tolerated them -- which, all things considered, is a rather extraordinary demonstration of actual tolerance.

[npk]

96. But notice how the thread is still open

Trust me that is not a coincidence. It's a very subtle message that is becoming all too common around here.

[emmadoggy]

100. Incredibly insulting thread filled with stereotypes. Very offensive.

:mad: :banghead:

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pitohui]

62. racism is regressive

i've lived in the south my whole life and i don't believe that anyone except the truly stupid believes in this religion they spout, they join these extremist religions as a tribal bonding thing -- they're racist to the core and it's also a networking thing, if you join some truly end of times whackjob xtian fundy church then you can be pretty sure the nice modern black family down the street will not be joining, they can get fundy stuff w. better music anywhere

can't speak to the midwest except to admit that sometimes midwesterners shock me w. their frank and open racism, instead of speaking in code and at least having a little shame...seems like they assume that it's ok to be a bigot openly in front of me since i'm from the south, which is kinda insulting in its own way...

[a la izquierda]

64. Oklahoma is a farming society...

and it used to be a hotbed of socialist activity (don't tell that to people here, though).

[Arugula Latte]

65. You're right -- religion.

Obviously facts and reason aren't important to great swaths of people in these areas, so rightwing idiocy and religion go hand in hand.

[TheKentuckian]

67. Broadly, it is a more rural versus urban deal and I think you are thinking the plains

more than the midwest. Michigan, Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota, and Wisconsin are decently liberal on the whole.

Utah, the Dakotas, Nebraska, and I'll throw Kansas in that mix trend more right wing and they lack major metros to balance out the more isolated and largely less educated countryside.

Even on the coasts the dynamic is similar but they have those large cities to offset their rural areas, see Pennsylvania and California. This is of course generalization there are exceptions either way but on the whole cities are breeding grounds for a more progressive inclined people.

[Ichingcarpenter]

70. Its the Bible Belt and if it lets it pants fall down then

then the US will see its ASSHOLE.

Sorry Southerners, I've live there and the only thing I liked
about it was the nature.

Organizing labor cost me dearly but was worth it.

My Son was born in Texas BTW.

[Touchdown]

77. I became an atheist in Missouri.

I mean why dream of heaven, when you live there?:eyes:

[Tsiyu]

84. Born and reared in Upstate New York

Moved to North Florida as a teen, then Atlanta, now in TN.

Racism, bigotry and ignorance are everywhere in the US.

I've seen plenty of anti-American Indian sentiment out West and up North.



But the South is a special case because it was the loser in a very ugly war.

"Hell No, We Won't Forget."


I was continually reminded of "The War of Nawthern Aggreshunn" in Florida. History teaches: losers bear grudges for a loooong time.


In Georgia, the misogyny is the problem. The meanest, drunkest, most worthless and abusive adult male has more respect then the most hard-working, decent, educated woman. This extreme lopsidedness in politics and community leadership is hard-wired into their brains along with racism against Blacks and hatred of Yankees.

Georgia is like a poorer, milder version of Saudi Arabia. Because men's issues rule, it will end up more Third World than the rest of America, but they will blame it on librulls and will listen to their Baptist Imams and continue voting in Repukes.

Tennessee is a little more progressive. I live in a very poor, rural area that is governed by Dem US Rep, Dem State Rep, Dem Sheriffs and Police Chiefs, Dem County Mayors. They voted for Gore and Kerry.

Racism took hold for some in '08, but nearly half these hillbillies voted for Obama.

Men here respect women. The ethnic breakdown of the residents is Cherokee mixed with Swiss mixed with Scots-Irish mixed with a bit of German.

I've found more tolerance here than anywhere else in the South. There are some fakey "progressive" places other places in the South, but they seem to carry the "Atlanta dynamic" when it comes to their nightlife- inclusive and consumed with image.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Odin2005]

91. It's an urban-rural thing. the smart, educated people leave small towns while...

...the ignorants stay behind.

[RagAss]

99. BINGO ! ... This thread is over !

[RandomThoughts]

94. Most social ideas can be set in a few decades.

By things like TV, and they do have different TV, and less exposure to other viewpoints if more spread out. Travel through the midwest, there are not many people there, I would guess the Census is cooked a bit there, really not many people at all compared to states with many cities.

They also have some views that keep them from seeing other views.

If you think many things are evil, then you can't learn from a flawed person that may know other things.

So if you think swearing is evil, then you would never learn anything from George Carlan, because as soon as he swore you would tune it all out.

So you can only learn from people with your own set of thoughts, and thoughts get more ingrain.