Only Rapists Can Prevent Rape

[Truth2Tell]

From: After Silience

http://myvoiceaftersilence.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/only-rapists-can-prevent-rape/

A lot has been said about how to prevent rape. Women should learn self-defense. Women should lock themselves in their houses after dark. Women shouldn’t have long hair and women shouldn’t wear short skirts. Women shouldn’t leave drinks unattended. Fuck, they shouldn’t dare to get drunk at all. Instead of that bullshit, how about:

If a woman is drunk, don’t rape her.
If a woman is walking alone at night, don’t rape her.
If a women is drugged and unconscious, don’t rape her.
If a woman is wearing a short skirt, don’t rape her.
If a woman is jogging in a park at 5 am, don’t rape her.
If a woman looks like your ex-girlfriend you’re still hung up on, don’t rape her.
If a woman is asleep in her bed, don’t rape her.
If a woman is asleep in your bed, don’t rape her.
If a woman is doing her laundry, don’t rape her.
If a woman is in a coma, don’t rape her.
If a woman changes her mind in the middle of or about a particular activity, don’t rape her.
If a woman has repeatedly refused a certain activity, don’t rape her.
If a woman is not yet a woman, but a child, don’t rape her.
If your girlfriend or wife is not in the mood, don’t rape her.
If your step-daughter is watching TV, don’t rape her.
If you break into a house and find a woman there, don’t rape her.
If your friend thinks it’s okay to rape someone, tell him it’s not, and that he’s not your friend.
If your “friend” tells you he raped someone, report him to the police.
If your frat-brother or another guy at the party tells you there’s an unconscious woman upstairs and it’s your turn, don’t rape her, call the police and tell the guy he’s a rapist.
Tell your sons, god-sons, nephews, grandsons, sons of friends it’s not okay to rape someone.
Don’t tell your women friends how to be safe and avoid rape.
Don’t imply that she could have avoided it if she’d only done/not done x.
Don’t imply that it’s in any way her fault.
Don’t let silence imply agreement when someone tells you he “got some” with the drunk girl.
Don’t perpetuate a culture that tells you that you have no control over or responsibility for your actions. You can, too, help yourself.

If you agree, re-post it. It’s that important.

Note:
This goes for any gendered rape, male on female or female on male or female on female or FTM on MTF or non gendered to dual gendered and so on and so forth….

-author unknown

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

1. True. Moreover, is true for situations other than rape.

If you float "blame the victim" arguments, regarding rape or anything else, you're an asshole.

[Truth2Tell]

3. Yes, always blame the victim. American culture 101.

Kinda like blaming the left for Obama's failure to deliver on his promises. :P

[pinboy3niner]

4. Lots of that going around lately

Even here, sadly.

As they say, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Truly.

[Redstone]

2. And, for the last time, rape is NOT sex. It's assault.

I cannot conceive of a punishment that is severe enough to be suitable for rapists.

There's a special corner of Hell reserved for rapists.

Redstone

[Cali_Democrat]

5. Good post, but I must say that women aren't the only ones that have to deal with rape.

Men can be raped as well.

[uncommon]

33. Yes, true, but the statistics are quite clear -

women are the victims of rape much more often than men.

And men are usually the perpetrators of the rapes of men as well as the rapes of women.

[MrScorpio]

6. Damn Skippy. nt

[Steely_Dan]

7. Nice Post! n/t

[pipi_k]

8. It's all well and good to say "don't, don't don't"...

to people, but the fact is, they're going to do it anyway because it's not a matter of people choosing chocolate over vanilla or wearing black socks instead of blue ones.

People who rape are extremely mentally and emotionally ill and need intensive therapy.

I would never suggest that women (or anyone prone to rape) lock themselves in the house or otherwise limit their own lives out of fear.

But until all the rapists in the world are stopped, which could be when it snows in hell, people need to be able to defend themselves effectively.

Own their power and refuse to BE victims of rape...not out of weakness or fear, but out of inner strength. Self-defense courses could literally mean the difference between life and death.

[seabeyond]

9. i disagree with much of your post, i am talking about the mentally ill. bullshit. priviliged, ya

a right, and ownership, sure. mentally ill? not even close.

63% of college males said in a study that if they didnt think they would get caught, they would rape.

[pinboy3niner]

10. +100

There is something wrong with rapists, but to suggest that it is mental illness is a copout and is just plain false. There may be something lacking in their moral education, but that is not a mental disorder.

[pipi_k]

14. If rape is about power and privilege....

that's got nothing to do with morals.

Men who view women as objects have serious personality disorders.

[seabeyond]

18. do you know how easy it seems to be in this world, and the number of people capable of dehumanizing

another. we are in epic proportion of dehumanizing each other. we have dehumanizing down as an art form. all of us, are not mentally ill. it is a well organized conditioning of people we see all the time.

[Truth2Tell]

59. Yep.

I'm glad to come back to this OP and find this discussion. I share the view that this is primarily about a cultural mindset, and that the solutions are to be found examining that, more so than handing out sidearms or beefing up laws. I also think the dehumanization (or whatever you want to call our broader social affliction) transcends this issue. The rape epidemic is a symptom of much more...

[pinboy3niner]

20. I think it most definitely has to do with one's sense of 'right' and 'wrong'

As well as with power and privilege.

That's not necessarily mental illness in the conventional, professionally-accepted sense, which also defines 'personality disorder'.

In a broader, non-clinical, sense, virtually all of us could be said to have some personality disorder.

Perhaps a question for another day is, what proportion of rapists lack the ability to understand and internalize the distinction between right and wrong?

[pipi_k]

22. The whole point I'm trying to make here....

is that whatever the reason is that people do wrong or illegal things, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people are going to behave just because someone has laid out a bunch of "don'ts".

[pinboy3niner]

26. I don't think we have much disagreement...

...except on the reference to "mental illness," which could let these predators off the hook.

My impression is that you were using that in the broadest sense, not in the clinical way that would offer a defense, so I suspect we're in agreement?

[pipi_k]

13. Normal men don't rape

Men thinking it's about privilege and/or power have some serious mental health issues no matter how old they are.


As far as the survey goes...even though 63% of college age "men" who were surveyed said they would rape if they knew they could get away with it, I don't buy that.

College kids are still pretty stupid. Stupid, arrogant, smart-assed idiots.

Most of them probably thought they were being hysterically funny by answering the way they did.



But getting back to the OP, just saying "don't do this" or "don't do that" isn't going to get it across to guys who DO rape that they shouldn't do it. About as useless as telling kids to "just say no" to sex or drugs.

And it's not really my main point anyway.

My main point is that people need to be able to defend themselves instead of sitting around wishing that rapists wouldn't rape.

[uppityperson]

16. However, it will come across to some of those who see women as inconsequential

It might open some eyes and thoughts of young men, or older men, who are able to hear this and think "maybe I should reconsider". Educating people is a good thing.

[pipi_k]

24. Men who rape...

don't merely see women as being "inconsequential".

They see women as being totally non-human.

How do you get someone who dehumanizes half the population to "reconsider" just by saying "don't do this"?

[Liquorice]

50. That's not true. They don't see women as non-human

generally. Most of them just want to exert power over women and/or want to get their way regardless of what the woman wants.

[seabeyond]

17. the rapist is often your friend, co worker, school peer that decides he deserves.

and it is the stupid college student doing most of the stupid, privilege, i am entitled, she owes me, rapes. the ability to dehumanize a female. and we know how easily that is done, with perfectly normal people

and it isn't mentally ill. it is conditioned. no, really does not mean no. get her drunk to get a piece. i can hit her, poke her, do her, .....

the point of the op is to get people to adjust the thinking in their head. i ask sons, and asked hubby, how many times have you heard the guys in the locker room, or at the bar (hubby) say, i got the gal drunk and did her good. this op is to get the guys to think about this. to see it blatantly and from a different perspective.

you are right, having a potential rapist, a kid that thinks he is entitled read this will merely snort and ignore.

and i am a believer of a female being aware, too, pipi

[yesphan]

58. My girlfriend

Was raped at knife point by her college boyfriend with whom she had just broken up. He wanted one last
"piece" before she left. His room mate told him to stop, he wouldn't. The room mate closed the door and walked away. He just let it happen. To this day, there have been no consequences, twenty some years later.

[raccoon]

49. I disagree.

" Normal men don't rape
Men thinking it's about privilege and/or power have some serious mental health issues no matter how old they are."

I bet plenty of men who seem "normal" commit rape.

And in a patriarchal society, plenty of men think it's all about privilege and power, and they have a sense of entitlement.

WHere do some men get off telling women they don't even know to smile, or "Take off your glasses?" (I kid you not.)

It's all part of the culture as a whole.

[uncommon]

34. Well said. Maybe 63% of college men are suffering from mental illness?

If male privilege is a mental illness that is...

[Posteritatis]

44. Talking about privilege while throwing around "mental illness" as a pejorative is .. striking. (nt)

[uncommon]

47. It was not being "thrown around" --

someone upthread claimed that anyone who commits rape must be mentally ill - statistics show otherwise.

[Posteritatis]

48. Weren't you suggesting that "male privilege" is itself mental illness?

There's rather too much "attitude I dislike, for good reason or bad, must be a mental disorder" on this site to say the least, so I'm more than a little sensitive to anything that edges in that direction; the implications of that, and other even nastier attitudes DUers often have regarding mental illness, make me more than a little uncomfortable.

[EOTE]

37. I see you throw this statistic around an awful lot, but I never see the actual study.

Please provide it if you're going to continue bashing males with it. I don't think calling the majority of men wannabe rapists is terribly progressive. I don't believe it for one second.

[BlueIris]

41. Maybe you should go find it yourself?

Especially if you're going to characterize a poster's valid mention of its existence as "bashing males."

[EOTE]

42. What an insightful reply.

So I'm guessing you won't mind if I go around everywhere making up statistics of my own? Whatever I can throw out to suit my own purposes? It's a good thing I'm a bit more intellectually honest than that. Unlike the poster I replied to. So one more time, just so I'm sure: It's fine to make up statistics so long as they suit our purposes? Just wanted to make sure.

For the record, I've asked for this statistic a number of times, it's never been provided to me. I've searched and searched, yet nothing has ever come up. I think lying is not a very progressive trait either. But maybe that's just me.

[EOTE]

56. Hey, I found it myself!

Well, not entirely by myself. Seabeyond helped a bit. It turns out the study she's referring to was from 1981. Oh yeah, and it cited the number as 35%, not 65%. And, errr, the study was of a group of male students from Zimbabwe. So, other than those pesky little points, she's dead right.

http://vaw.sagepub.com/content/12/8/789.abstract

But I'd suggest not worrying about facts, they're pesky little things. Just go on parroting whatever statistic helps to make your point the best.

[seabeyond]

51. i didnt find the study, but i found pieces.

"rape. in a recent u.c.l.a. study 65% of college educated males said that they would rape a woman if they thought they could get away with it. what % are you?"

http://www.students.haverford.edu/masar/programs/sticker.htm

Rape Prevention Education
Program- Statistics
•1 in 4 women have been survivors of rape or
attempted rape.
•84% of those raped knew their attacker.
•57% of the rapes happened on dates.
•42% of the rape survivors told no one about
the assault
•Only 5% reported it to the police.
•In a recent U.C.L.A. study 65% of college
males said they would rape a woman if they
thought they could get away with it.

http://www.chem.ucsb.edu/~kalju/chem110L/public/Prevent_Rape.pdf


In another survey of college males: (ref 8)

· 43% of college-aged men admitted to using coercive behavior to have sex, including ignoring a woman's protest, using physical aggression, and forcing intercourse.

· 15% acknowledged they had committed acquaintance rape; 11% acknowledged using physical restraints to force a woman to have sex.

http://www.uic.edu/depts/owa/sa_rape_support.html

[EOTE]

52. What you've provided is really no better than your original unsourced claim.

The first link you provide is to text found on a sticker, parroting the same info you have, but once again, with no source to speak of. Just this elusive "recent U.C.L.A. study". Then you link to a Powerpoint which once again parrots the statistic with absolutely no evidence to back it up. Your third link is rather interesting. It provides sources, not one that is readily available, but sources none-the-less. It also says that under certain circumstances, 35% of college males would rape if they could get away with it. This number, while shockingly high and disgusting (and which I certainly don't take as proof until I could actually read some of those sources), is about half of the number that you claim. Also, the source is from 1981.

So, if you are going to continue to recklessly throw around statistics like that, you might want to do a little more research beforehand. Until then, I can only conclude that you are intentionally lying to get your point across.

[EOTE]

54. Another note about this "statistic" you link to.

The one link that you provided that actually DID have valid sources listed for it, cited this one particular study:

"Hostile Sexism, Type of Rape, and Self-Reported Rape Proclivity Within a Sample of Zimbabwean Males"

So, the statistic you cite is not only factually wrong (35% vs. 65%), but it's a survey of college males FROM ZIMBABWE! I've brought up this issue a number of times, yet you continue to cite this ridiculously bogus statistic. I would really appreciate it if you stopped playing so fast and loose with the facts.

[EOTE]

60. I guess I should take your lack of reply as a sign you have a disdain for the truth?

Well, that's OK. A recent study from Harvard shows that a full 65% of college educated women have complete disdain for the truth, so you're in the majority. I'm sure you'd rather be hostile toward the truth than be a rapist, so it's all good. Now I need to go and start harassing my male friends. Statistics alone show that a good portion of them are potential rapists. So I guess it's time for me to burn a few bridges.

http://vaw.sagepub.com/content/12/8/789.abstract

Facts are stupid things.

[cleanhippie]

12. Having a sidearm and being well trained in its use can also help a lot.

[pipi_k]

15. Sure does...hey...whatever works!

;)

[seabeyond]

19. i think you are seeing rape of the stranger jumping out of the bushes..... rape

that rape is so few compared to the guy who takes the gal out, who is at the party and follows her into a room, who sits next to her in class, who gives her rides, has coffee with....

these rapes, a female is not going to pull out a gun and shoot the guy.

[pipi_k]

25. Actually, a gun would probably work better

in the situations you describe.

If a person gets jumped from the bushes, she probably wouldn't have time to pull out a gun, which would make knowing some self defense very useful.

But someone she's with...she could still have a few seconds to pretend to go along with whatever he wants, tell him she's going to "change into something more comfortable", take her purse, and come out with her little "friend". The only thing is, she had better be prepared to use it.


We're never going to rid the world of rapists. We need to give women the right to defend themselves however they can..

[cleanhippie]

27. +1

We're never going to rid the world of rapists. We need to give women the right to defend themselves however they can.

Preach it, sister!

[seabeyond]

28. at a frat party, girl gets drunk, the boy is drunk.... she says no, he is pushing it, she pulls gun

out and shoots him. or does she have to wait for penetration?

this is what you are promoting?

it is so damn easy to make this black and white to feel a comfort in safe, ignoring the real reality of the issue/crisis

[pipi_k]

29. I'm not making this a black and white issue

She doesn't have to pull out a gun, and it's better not to if someone is that close to you, which is why it also wouldn't work if someone is jumped by surprise.

Too much chance that, at close range, it could be taken away.

That's where martial arts would work much better.

What I'm saying is, if someone DOES decide to pull out a gun, he or she had better be prepared to actually use it or risk having it taken away and used against him or her.


I personally would prefer to be on the other side of the room from a potential assailant/burglar pointing a weapon at him. Where it can't be grabbed.

Get out or I'll shoot.

If the person ignores my demand to leave, I shoot.

[cleanhippie]

30. Lets remember that we are on the same side of this issue.

Being armed is simply ONE MORE tool women can utilize to protect themselves. There are MANY OTHER tools, a sidearm is just one of them and may not be applicable in all situations.

No one is trying to make this black and white, because this issue is in technicolor and to approach it from any other perspective will only lead to failure. Since it is a wide-ranging issue, there need to be wide-ranging solutions.

[seabeyond]

31. i understand we are on the same side

and i hope you dont think my contradicting the suggestion is disrespectful to your opinion. the bottom line for me is i think often we dont get to the nitty gritty of the majority of rape, which is rape aquaintence and all that is involved in this and the mentality of this action. it would be truly harsh to talk about the reality fo rape aquaintence adn who they guys... not even men yet, are as people, that chose to rape. and how the girl handles and deals with it. and whyssss of it.

[cleanhippie]

39. And in that case I would think that education is the best tool.

Education for BOTH genders. We need to instill a sense of better respect for ourselves and for each other. Both men and women are responsible for their actions, regardless of how much booze or drugs they ingest.

[Crystal Clarity]

43. Never fails. Someone in these threads always comes up w/this ridiculous meme.

:eyes:

So are you saying that I need to get a concealed weapons permit just so I can go out on a date? Why is the onus on me to protect myself from someone I initially trusted enough to go out with? If he can turn on a dime like that, then he's clearly a manipulative predator, and as such would be difficult to defend oneself against gun or no. Not that I wouldn't try, but he's the one who has the benefit of the element of surprise in which case your little scenario would be unlikely to work.

Until or unless you are walking in the shoes of someone who has been date raped, you have no business suggesting how the victim should or shouldn't have handled the situation.

[cleanhippie]

53. Your username does not seem to reflect your post.

So are you saying that I need to get a concealed weapons permit just so I can go out on a date?

Is that what you THINK is being said? It's not.

Why is the onus on me to protect myself from someone I initially trusted enough to go out with?

Had you bothered to read the rest of the discussion, you would see that we talked about this and thoughts were given.


Until or unless you are walking in the shoes of someone who has been date raped, you have no business suggesting how the victim should or shouldn't have handled the situation.

Sure, we do. This is a DISCUSSION BOARD, and we are DISCUSSING ideas on how to better address this subject and prevent more rape.


What we can also do, is SUGGEST to you that you join the conversation and try to add something constructive in order to help all of us reach the same goal.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

35. There are too many rapes in this world....

You can't pass it off as mental illness. By your suggestion many (most) rapists ought to be considered unfit to stand trial. No way. No how.

[Odin2005]

55. Nonsense, most rapists are normal men that think they are ENTITLED to sex.

Dismissing rapists as mentally ill, or as "monsters" is a convenient way to keep from habving to come to grips with misogynistic attitudes. Most rapes are acquaintance rapes, NOT the stereotype of the "monster that abducts women off the street".

[Egalitariat]

11. Antoine Dodson can prevent rape, too

[EOTE]

38. Run and tell that, homeboy!

We could use a few more of him around.

[Odin2005]

21. If a woman is disabled, don't rape her.

[11tybillion]

23. thank you. i, as i'm sure many do, have a very close connection with this topic. nt

nt

[uncommon]

32. Thanks for posting.

[RadiationTherapy]

36. Sex is not something one ought to "get away with."

I say one needs more than consent, that there must be enthusiasm. Obviously this is a subjective reflection, but if your partner is not enthusiastic, then you both should talk more. This helps those "grey areas" where people don't say no, but don't say yes either. Those moments you really dig someone and don't want to lose them but don't want to have sex with them yet either.

Enthusiasm in a sexual partner can clarify a lot of issues that can come up.

[seabeyond]

46. This helps those "grey areas"

your post is right on. my boys and i have discussed this. and it is what i told the boys. i dont want them to be in a bad situation any more than i want a girl to be.

[RadiationTherapy]

57. I saw a post on one of those anonymous confession sites.

A young woman confessed: "I didn't say no, but I didn't say yes either. He should have known. I consider it a "semi-rape". " I had an intense discussion with someone who took offense to her contextualization.

If the guy would have put the brakes on the freight train (trust me, I understand how hard it can be), he would have seen and felt his partner's reticence.

[BlueIris]

40. Oh, and if you know your friend, brother, father, uncle, grandpa,

sister, mother, whathaveyou is a rapist, don't enable that person by "trying not to get involved" and refusing to report their crimes. Or excuse their crimes on a public website in the name of "representing both sides of the 'issue.'" That makes YOU complicit in their rapes as well, rapist-enabler.

[ismnotwasm]

45. And here's a excellent website to start with;

"Men Can Stop Rape (MCSR) is an international organization that mobilizes men to use their strength for creating cultures free from violence, especially men’s violence against women. Since its inception in 1997, MCSR has led the call to redefine masculinity and male strength as part of preventing men’s violence against women."
http://www.mencanstoprape.org/