Why do repubs/cons hate unions? I'm not talking about the PTB, I'm

[Subdivisions]

talking about the republican/conservative man/woman on the street. I'm a union member and when I try to explain to my BIL what it means to be a union member, he gets enraged and says he doesn't even want to talk about it because if he did it would ruin our friendship. And when I've asked him why he hates unions so much, he cannot give me an answer. At all. He just hates unions and he doesn't even know why. He doesn't get that unions are a way for workers (of which he is one, occasionally) to be protected from employers and that, together, workers are able, through unions, to get a fair wage and fair benefits, all under a contract with the employer. He absolutely HATES the idea that a bunch of workers would get together for collective bargaining purposes. And he doesn't even own a company. In fact, he sits at home while his wife supports the family, though he could work if he wanted to. Also, even though he doesn't contribute in the least to society nor does he vote, he rails about what Pres. Obama is doing and he screams about what they're doing with HIS taxes.

I just don't get what a presumably normal repub/con citizen have against unions. After all, are they not workers and want to be treated fairly too, just like the rest of us?

[tk2kewl]

1. Rush told them to.

n/t

[KingFlorez]

2. Many just follow the standard right-wing position

They have no real reason, they just hate who conservatives tell them to.

[Bitwit1234]

3. The right wing hates unions because

they fight for the employee. The fight for safe working conditions and good benefits and wages. That cost the corporations M-O-N-E-Y and you know republicans. Anything that cost the corporations puts in dent in the money they funnel back to the republican pocket.

[Subdivisions]

5. You're absolutely right, of course. If my BIL owned a business, I would

completely understand his position. But to proactively hate the idea of employees demanding, under contract, the things you mentioned just confounds me to now end. How can you advocate for the welfare of a corporation over the welfare of your own family, friends, and neighbors? It just seems so bizarre to me.

[Davis_X_Machina]

4. Collective action implies individual powerlessness.

This is intolerable. It suggests that I may not be master of my own fate, that I might not be as powerful as I imagine, that as an individual I might be weak. People will do a lot of harm to themselves to preserve that fantasy.

Throw in the fact that the others with whom I combine might not look like me, sound like me -- and it's easy to see why I recoil from collective action.

Which of course plays right into the hands of the PTB.

Marxist theory refers to this mindset as 'false consciousness'.

[KansDem]

6. Unions represent a threat to corporatism

Unions stand in the way of complete control by corporations. And it seems that the "average American" would rather be told what to do by private corporations than by "governmental agencies."

I don't understand it myself: Cons, including GOPers and Tea Baggers, "hate" government but seem to not mind being dictated to and controlled by corporations. I believe they've been mind-washed to believe utter allegiance to corporations represents "freedom" :shrug:

Notice how corporations used to denounce campaign donations by unions to candidates? Corporations used to bemoan how union members didn't have a say in who the donations went to. That unions might be donating to a Democrat when some of its members were Republican.

Well, now that union influence has waned a bit, it's okay for corporate entities (i.e., Big Corp) to donate freely to political candidates...

[John Q. Citizen]

7. You are looking in the wrong place. Don't look for a rational answer, because there isn't one. There

is only the almost delusional hope that one day I will be rich, I hope so, and when I am I don't want no union telling me what I have to do.

This is how it's internalized so that people will then go out and vote against their own best interests.

Once you realize that an individuals voting patterns often have little to do with rational thought and far more to do with things like personal identity, habit, and untested long held premises based on nothing more than repetition by a sufficiently large enough number of different people.

[Ozymanithrax]

8. 130 years of anti-union propaganda is the reason.

They learned it at the breast, or the bottle.

It is taught in every movie, every book, and every news story that links unions to organized crime.

It is taught every time the world socialist is used.

As a society, we have indoctrinated our children, and it isn't just Republicans and Cons that hate unions.

[jdlh8894]

11. Does anybody remember what the U

Meant in USSR? This is what scares a bunch of the "Boomers" Along with one of the S's.

[Ozymanithrax]

12. You know, unions were illegal in the U.S.S.R.

And the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics wasn't a "union."

[jdlh8894]

13. Wonder why they were "illegal"?

And why the USSR does not exist today?

[Ozymanithrax]

28. They were illegal, because the Soviets only wanted one voice...

one Soviet.

And they don't exist because of Gorbachev's birthmark, or was that Reagan's Star Wars...because their economy cracked before ours did after 30+ years of cold war.

[KillCapitalism]

29. They weren't necessary in the Soviet Union.

There's no need for unions in a place that's already a worker's paradise.

[LostinVA]

17. It has been and still is preached in many churches

[The Northerner]

9. They've been told to believe that unions extort businesses for money

and are always whining wanting wage increases and more benefits for less or meager work.

It's almost the same talking points that I hear from the anti-union hacks.

[Poboy]

10. I'm going to say jealousy.

Its the same old selfish, self centered attitude.
If you have better working conditions, pay, paid leave, etc., then they are envious.
When they are told by the corporatist talkers how all these benefits of greedy workers are driving businesses/jobs away, it gives them the excuse to rail and rage at people like you.

Instead of seeing supporting Unions as a way to lift ALL boats, they instead are their typical shallow jealous asshole selves.

[zipplewrath]

14. Union history is far from perfect

As a former teamster, I'm not anti union by any stretch. But there is some history to unions that is less than flattering. From the earliest days they literally had to "fight" and they did. And once they got control, they fought (literally) to keep it. Just about every violent act one can imagine has been used by union members to intimidate scabs, and shut down companies that tried to bust the unions. And later they got way too involved with the mobs. There was a period as well when they were used to keep minorities out of certain trades (which is funny because in the later years, they would be accused of trying to integrate the south, which is how they kept unions out of much of the south. "Blacks will take your jobs").

And the conflict between unions and management isn't pretty and results in some absurdities on both sides that are fairly unflattering. Anyone who has seen the union "defend" an otherwise indefensible worker (which unfortunately is their job) can get a fairly bad taste in their mouth about the true use of a union. And I've personally seen union members use the grievance process just to be a pain in the ass. (Of course, I've seen management be a prick just because they could). And work rules that workers fight very hard for are often misunderstood by those subject to them, especially those that don't understand the concept of a "trade".

I know the history of unions and I am a big union supporter. I laugh at the folks that are so proud that they don't have a union, or decent benefits, but have substandard wages. And when they get fired for no real good reason, and "can't afford a lawyer", I often mention that union members don't need them. But they don't really understand.

The unions unfortunately are victims of their own success. People today don't understand that much of what they take for granted, or is part of labor law, started out as hard fought victories for labor unions. What we expect OSHA or EEO to do, unions used to have to literally fight for in the past. The 40 hour work week, the paid vacation, and health insurance benefits were all accomplisments of the labor movement.

[Davis_X_Machina]

15. Corporate history is far from perfect....

...countervailing powers don't need to be perfect, they need to be countervailing.

It may even help them to be countervailing if they're a little less than perfect.

Fear moves people in suits just as much as greed.

[zipplewrath]

24. Definitely

People don't even understand what corporations were like when unions got started. People don't even know about the Triangle Fires or what the Molly Maguires were up against. And if you've never worked in a non-union "shop" that wasn't worried about a union coming in, you'd know real fast why there are unions. I used to love all these guys that bragged about how they didn't need a union, all the while the company was lavishing them with benefits to keep them voting for a union. Did it never occur to them that there was a reason the company was dumping that kinda effort?

[Canuckistanian]

16. Point out to him that the police are unionized

And then ask him whether they deserve less pay, no pension or no representation.

[Davis_X_Machina]

18. He probably hates them too --

-- unless and until there's an emergency when he needs them, they're a bunch of doughnut-eating civil service drones who write him tickets for speeding and won't let him beat his wife. Unless they're on occupation duty in those neighborhoods, the cops are a dead loss to him.

[Subdivisions]

19. Yep. That about sums it up. n/t

[w8liftinglady]

20. here's a good website with a birds-eye view...and I share your pain,neighbor

http://www.americanrightsatwork.org/the-anti-union-network/home/

[pintobean]

21. It's simple. We support Democrats.

[Davis_X_Machina]

22. More like 'We support...

...some Democrats, some of the time.'

I've heard enough people and politicians read out of the real Democratic Party here over the years to fill a House and Senate.

And that's leaving aside the people who've read the Democratic Party out of the Democratic Party.

[EC]

23. I've found (at least from the people I know that hate them)

that it's because they were turned down for a union job. Usually for inadequate training - no certification etc. They are disdainful of school and don't believe you should have to go to school to be an electrician or HVAC technician or machanic...They don't see the point. I tell them that if I were having my house wired, there is no way I'd call non-union...how would I know if they knew what they were doing?


They know union jobs are higher paying and jobs are protected - they are jealous they can't get into a union shop....The same with government jobs...


On Edit: I'll venture to guess your BIL tried for a union job and wasn't even interviewed...

[dmosh42]

25. I'm a retired life-union member, and spent 12 yrs in Florida...

and the only other retirees I came across were either previous business owners or former union workers. I only remember one retiree from the south, and he was a former union man from Bell South. There are no pensions for non-union workers, except a few really large corporations.(IBM, Dupont, etc) But I did find that many ex-steelworkers and UAW guys suddenly became like the rich, and suddenly they were 'Republican' assholes. I'm in NC now, living on cheap taxes, cause the local working people think that it's good for the 'plantation owners' to have it all, and some day that will help all the local folk. Will never understand it, and don't care!

[Raspberry]

26. First of all,

a very small percentage of the American workforce is unionized. I saw the figures recently, and I was AMAZED by how low the percentage is.

Also, those of us who are not in a union, and make considerably less than union workers, are stuck paying very high prices for consumer goods--like cars--because the wages of the union workers drive the prices of those items up.

My husband is a salaried employee at a union plant, and he sees the union doing stuff that is outrageous, like going to bat for employees who are fired for doing dangerous stuff, or stealing, or other things that most of us wouldn't even consider doing because we know we would get fired for it.

There are plenty of other reasons. Believe it or not, unions are not all good.

[alc]

27. I'd guess news coverage

This summer I don't think I've seen any positive stories about unions. But I have seen a number of negative stories. I don't know how true any of them are and forget many of the details, but the fact that this is what I remember says something about the news coverage. And I didn't get them from Fox - most likely cnn.com, google news, or yahoo.

* LA and New York can't fire teachers or give them non-classroom jobs so make them sit in a room all day.
* A union complained that volunteers were cleaning up parks (In Pennsylvania I think)
* A union complained about some job a teenager was doing. Don't remember any details
* Attempt to unionize all "day care" in a state, including neighbors watching their friends' kids. I remember thinking there must be more to it but the news coverage was not good for unions.
* Professional sports' unions looking greedy. The news makes owners look bad too, but it doesn't help peoples' opinion of unions in general.
* NJ teacher complains in a meeting about how much she should be making. Ends up she's making more. In fact she's making a lot compared to most people.
* Card check getting rid of democracy and letting unions force employees to unionize.

If unions care about their image they need more consideration before they complain about something like volunteer cleanup. And if they go ahead and complain they need a PR plan before hand. And they need to get out and explain card check from their side instead of letting reporters spin it. Maybe they are trying but media companies aren't letting the union message out.

Aside from the news coverage, the only exposure non-union people have to unions is during a strike when they are inconvenienced.

And most repubs probably have few if any union member friends but do know some ex-members. And ex-members have lots of negative things to say about unions (3 people doing the job of 1. Being forced to slow down because they made others look bad. etc)

[fullautoguy]

30. test

[fullautoguy]

31. I'm not a republican but i am a conservative libertarian

"talking about the republican/conservative man/woman on the street. I'm a union member and when I try to explain to my BIL what it means to be a union member, he gets enraged and says he doesn't even want to talk about it because if he did it would ruin our friendship. And when I've asked him why he hates unions so much, he cannot give me an answer. At all. He just hates unions and he doesn't even know why. He doesn't get that unions are a way for workers (of which he is one, occasionally) to be protected from employers and that, together, workers are able, through unions, to get a fair wage and fair benefits, all under a contract with the employer. He absolutely HATES the idea that a bunch of workers would get together for collective bargaining purposes. And he doesn't even own a company. In fact, he sits at home while his wife supports the family, though he could work if he wanted to. Also, even though he doesn't contribute in the least to society nor does he vote, he rails about what Pres. Obama is doing and he screams about what they're doing with HIS taxes.

I just don't get what a presumably normal repub/con citizen have against unions. After all, are they not workers and want to be treated fairly too, just like the rest of us? "


I have nothing against Unions or rather Union members. But I can see where people would have issue with them. Unions have quite a bit of power in politics and sometimes have agendas outside of what they are unionizing, for example immigration. Why would say (for example) the teamsters support granting amnesty to people who work illegally in the United States? would that not pull jobs away from union members because of the wage disparity? or why do Unions support "Climate Change policies" that would strip union dues from them like once again teamsters for example, cap and trade comes into affect, cost of fuel goes way up, thus prices go way up, less consumer demand for products being shipped on trucks means less union drivers thus less dues. granted that is a very simplistic approach to the issue but hopefully you see where I am going with this. Unfortunately Unions really no longer look out for the little guy as they used to do and now they are more in to politics and getting people into office. Let me ask you a question why don't you like people who don't like unions, i know its a silly question on its face but it is a valid one. Say if i work in a union shop say making widgets, but i don't want to be part of the union feeling my union dues would be better spent on something else like on me. Do you think it is wrong to force me into a union?