Only MASSIVE OUTRAGE can can stop the PERMANENT THEFT of SS funds...:

[Faryn Balyncd]

Simpson & his gang of thieves want to NEVER HONOR the bond obligations of the Treasury to the SS Trust fund.

He is NOT making that threat to Chinese bondholders (or anyone else for that matter) that they accept less than promised "because we've already spent the money".

Simpson & Co. are only making that demand to Americans who have paid a lifetime of payroll & self-employment contributions in good faith to the FICA/SS Trust Fund, which has invested those funds in loans (bonds) to the Treasury, minimizing the amount the Treasury had to borrow from other sources (or acquire from raising taxes or other revenue enhancement). These loans have benefitted the Treasury by keeping interest rates much lower than otherwise would have been the case.

Now that Wall Street crooks have been bailed out to the tune of tens of trillions of dollars. Simpson & Co want to steal the $2.5 trillion surplus in the SS Trust fund. This surplus was created by your lifetime contributions, for the specific purpose of funding your retirement. This surplus is sufficient to pay SS benefits in full until at least 2037, yet Simpson et al want the Treasury to default - - to renege on honoring these obligations - - not to Chinese bondholders, not to oil sheik bondholders ...... but only to the SS Trust fund.

What Simpson's Theft Commission is advocating is nothing short of the permanent diversion of payroll taxes to non-SS government expenditures --- expenditures that by law & morals should be paid by income tax & other federal revenue.

By diverting permanently payroll tax to deficits in other programs (wars, bailouts, corporate welfare) this is nothing less that the theft from the poor and middle class to reduce the income taxes of the top 1%. It replaces a mildly progressive income tax with a harshly regressive payroll/self-employment tax.

By the dereliction of their duty - by passing a special rule giving the un-democratic Simpson-Bowles Commission the properly legislative responsibility of crafting legislation which must be voted on WITHOUT AMENDMENT by the lame duck Congress before January 11, 2011 - our leadership is running our country & party OVER A CLIFF.

The minority Republicans have already achieved the remarkable feat of conning Democrats into passing (and taking sole responsibility) a No-Public_Option Corporate-Insurance-Only mandate (despite overwhelming support for a public plan by the middle class).

If Simpson & Co. now manage to achieve their longstanding goal of gutting SS, and managing to con DEMOCRATS into taking responsibility for this betrayal, the loss of the Democratic majority will be but a small & nauseating omen for things to come.






The American public is longer impressed by empty words. But if there is one ACTION that would both energize the disillusioned Democratic base and re-establish a bond with Americans embattled working & middle class, it would be to immediately REPEAL the undemocratic special rule that provides for NO AMENDMENTS and lets the gang of thieves on the Simpson-Bowles Commission write a bill that gets an up-or-down vote by a lame duck Congress.

This undemocratic rule was literally...

...sneaked language into the rule that the House is voting on tonight regarding war funding.

Embedded in the rule is the requirement that the House will vote on the deficit commission’s recommendations in the lame duck session if they pass the Senate.

The commission, co-chaired by Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson, is packed with members who favor the raising the retirement age to 70, means testing, and private accounts. Many also support investing 20% of the Social Security trust fund in the stock market.



...The rule is only good for the 111th Congress — it expires Jan 5, 2011, so a lame duck Congress would have to vote on it.



http://firedoglake.com/2010/07/01/breaking-pelosi-sneaks-approval-of-vote-on-debt-commission-recommendations-into-rule-regarding-war-funding

If the Democratic leadership is to stop their suicidal stampede over the cliff, they must be forced by massive public outrage to REPEAL THIS RULE before the November elections, and demonstrate that they are, in fact, Democrats.






:kick:

[TheKentuckian]

1. Bring the rain of fire down on their heads.

[Poboy]

2. Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war! -nt

[jgraz]

3. Release the Kraken!

[Xenotime]

39. +1

[jtown1123]

4. Democrats, on the whole, are too spineless to repeal a rule

Perhaps they will go along with the vote to support President Obama and provide some evidence they are "serious" about the deficit. Once they see the Social Security cuts, maybe they will pull together and vote against it. I did see some great tweets from Rep. Anthony Weiner curious why a Democrat put together this fiscal commission atrocity. Will be interesting to see who else will start to criticize it on the Dems side.

[scheming daemons]

5. You've come to the right place.... MASSIVE OUTRAGE is the one thing DUers all do well..

....

[jgraz]

7. Well, except for the few sensible centrists who want us to bend over and take it

[laughingliberal]

33. I find being faced with starvation does that to a person. nt

[MzNov]

65. and cat food is way way too expensive these days

:grr:

[rucognizant]

102. Go here,

http://sharpdesignsstudio.blogspot.com/
Buy this book from the Historical Society...........and find out what happened in 1775 when the citizens were denied their basic right to FOOD!
It only took 40 souls!

[damntexdem]

6. If Dems go along with this, the Dem Party will be dead to me.

And I will urge all others to act the same.

[defendandprotect]

9. URGE Democrats who are outraged to JOIN TOGETHER in a liberal/progressive voting bloc....

and find a new Democratic candidate in 2012!!

No one fought this hard to overturn the right wing simply to turn back now -- did they???

Now we need to defeat the infiltration of corporates in our own party!!

[NorthCarolina]

50. If Dems go along with it? Ummm...who made the appointments to the Debt Commission?

I think your answer as to whether the Dems are involved, I think you need to look no farther than the DLC New Dems. Lets see...who was it that publicly proclaimed "I am a New Dem"? Oh yeah....it was the same one who appointed all the rabid anti-entitlement goons to his Commission that will address entitlement spending. Lets face it, we've been had.

[defendandprotect]

8. No wonder Simpson is so out-spokenly confident -- !!! Hello . . Democrats??? Where are you???

[jgraz]

13. Yeah, he knows his position is rock-solid.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

10. You have really said it just like it is.

I especially like your last line. I am so pissed off at these so-called Democrats. I could just spit nails.

Recommended!

:kick:

[bobbolink]

16. As long as you spit those nails in the right direction, it could be a good idea!

[Divine Discontent]

29. K&R! We all should be pissed, and certainly expecting of the President to protect this very

important program that has saved millions from being destitute. The damned dirty GOP is up to their standard steal from the poor to give to the rich routine.

:kick:

[bobbolink]

11. So much massive outrage for so many issues is badly needed.....

outrage about rampant homelessness, outrage about the SSI purge going on now, outrage about Medicaid cuts....

Suit up, folks, because the fun is just beginning.

[Bryn]

25. I completely agree with you!

... about homelessness, SSI purge, Medicaid cuts, etc.

[laughingliberal]

46. +1 nt

[bobbolink]

54. I just found out another DUer got cut off disability... no way to survive.

Yet, this will never become an issue here worth spending any effort on.

So, I just can't get excited about other issues.

The time comes when we all need for our lives to be important enough to others to be willing to pay attention and do what they can to change things.

I sometimes wonder how people here are going to feel when they find out that thousands have died over these cuts that they refused to pay attention to.

sigh.... I'm guessing it really won't matter....not unless its some big name.

[laughingliberal]

42. +1 nt

[daleanime]

84. Hell yea...

and this time under 'our' watch!?:grr:

[bobbolink]

94. Which is why it won't be dealt with until it is too late.

Too much resistance to looking at the culpability of our own party.

You know... the ones in the white hats.

[daleanime]

95. That the nice thing about white clothing....

it only stays that way with consistent care and attention.:loveya:

[GoneOffShore]

Thank you.

Simpson is a fraud.

[GoneOffShore]

12. Thank you.

[sabrina 1]

14. You are so right, and after watching Cenk's interview

Dem. Van Hollen, it is clear that Dems are not going to put up that fight unless they are forced to do it.

This Commission needs to be disbanded and the lie that SS is in any way responsible for the deficit, must be stamped out forcefully.

Every Democrat should be all over TV right now, attacking this Commission's attempt to steal from the American people, because it IS theft, there is simply no other word for it. And if Dems do not fight, and it is a WINNING ISSUE, then the betrayal will be clear. And we will have to face the fact that actually is no one standing up for the American people.

[LiberalAndProud]

15. What is the path for the recommendations?

From the linked article:
Embedded in the rule is the requirement that the House will vote on the deficit commission’s recommendations in the lame duck session if they pass the Senate.


So the Senate needs to pass it first and then Congress gets an up or down vote? With our current Congress, right?



I'm confused. This guy didn't say anything about commission recommendations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ

[sabrina 1]

21. It is a stealth way, as Obama once said of these commissions,

to get an up or down vote from a lame duck Congress, AFTER the election, on the Commissions recommendations.

This Commission was charged with dealing with the Fiscal problems facing the nation. SS is in now way the cause of these problems. It is a separate fund and belongs to the American people who paid into it.

What Simpson and his gang on the Commission are attempting to do is to tie SS to the deficit and to claim that the only way to help reduce the deficit is to cut SS benefits by raising the retirement age and cutting benefits for those now under 58 years old.

This is garbage, it is lies and it is theft.

The SS fund is solvent for decades to come. The deficit was caused by the Financial Meltdown and even if as some are saying, the government dipped into the SS surplus that 'loan' is guaranteed to be repaid.

Another rightwing lie is that there is 'nothing in the SS trust fund but IOUs'. What is in the trust fund are Treasury Bonds which are guaranteed to be paid and the government has never defaulted on, ever.

Simpson et al are trying to frighten the people into believing that the government will have to default on them, which is a lie. Because if that ever happened it would be a first and it would probably cause a complete breakdown of this government.

Democrats must start right now fighting these lies. And Obama needs to disband this Commission and prevent that up or down vote after the November election.

SS is solvent, there is no crisis, it did not cause the deficit and cutting benefits will not in any way reduce the deficit since it is a separate fund, and the only way that could happen would be if they stole money from that fund and spent it to cover their own debts.

In fact cutting benefits could contribute to the deficit.

[laughingliberal]

47. Exactly! Every word! eom

[Mimosa]

79. Excellent post, Sabrina. n/t

[inna]

89. It's highly unlikely that Obama will be willing to "disband this Commission", since

he went out of his way to create it. :(

[sabrina 1]

100. Yes, I know but it is the only way I would trust anything

they say at this point. We all know now that their words mean nothing. They will promise to 'protect SS' before the election. But Van Hollen's dissembling in the interview with Cenk, told me all I need to know. Obama being for something NOW, has come to mean nothing so the only way I would trust anything they have to say is if they disbanded this Commission. And why are Democrats not demanding this? They KNOW how angry people are and this could lose them their seats?

[ChiciB1]

90. Are They Going To Attempt To Kick People Off Of SS And/Or Disability??

I'm sorry, I don't know what they are proposing! Kicking people off of SS & Disability will be the RUIN of too many people!! So The Tea-baggers who lose this income, are THEY going to be happy have government out of their lives??

I'm sorry, I haven't followed this close enough, but it will impact me and my income!! If we get cut off, I HAVE NO INCOME!! Simple as that!!

From what I've seen of our Democrats AND OBAMA, I'm thinking we're in a shit-load of trouble!! Is this what it will FINALLY get people riled up enough to start a REAL REVOLUTION??

If not, I dare say NOTHING WILL! I no longer have much faith or TRUST in Obama or Democrats!! So we need to dig our heels in and scrimp to survive! Tent-City Central coming up!! But then, THEY SHUT THEM DOWN as soon as they appear on the landscape!!

America... going the way of ROME!! I'm afraid and live with FEAR daily!!

[sabrina 1]

99. They say what they want to do is to cut benefits. When

people reacted angrily to that, Simpson claimed they would only cut benefits in the future for those under 58 now. And they are talking about raising the retirement age. That too got an angry reaction.

Their main goal of course is to now have to repay what they 'borrowed' from the SS Trust Fund, because that would mean taxes have to be raised on the rich.

The other major goal is to talk working people now to buy 'private savings accounts' instead of paying the SS tax as is the case now. And then, after privatizing that money it would be 'invested'. Does anyone need to explain what the disastrous results of that would be?

I think if you are currently on SS you will not be affected, at least that's what they claim. If you are on disability, that's a different story. I think they will cut disability as they have wanted to for a long time.

I'm sorry, I hope you are not affected. These people are cruel, they do not care about anyone other than their elitist wealthy friends.

We have to fight very hard for this. If we don't, they will get away with it and then they will become bolder and they will take more.

[Lorien]

92. Unfortunately now many Democrats are working to do the GOPs dirty work for

them. Dems will end up taking the blame for it too. The only question that remains is; are they a bunch of wimps who have fallen prey to bullies, or are they accomplices?

[Ignis]

17. K&R

Action is often spawned from outrage.

[Bryn]

18. Thank you for your powerful post about attack on SS

Rec'd and Kick. More people should read it.

on edit to add: this quote is powerful!

" If the Democratic leadership is to stop their suicidal stampede over the cliff, they must be forced by massive public outrage to REPEAL THIS RULE before the November elections, and demonstrate that they are, in fact, Democrats."

I am going to share on my facebook.

[doc03]

19. This is something the spineless union bosses need

to get behind and fight to stop. They were too cowardly to do anything about the PATCO strike and we see how that worked out.

[JDPriestly]

31. The only strong union left is the teachers' union, and teachers

are not on Social Security. They have their own pension system, at least in many states.

[doc03]

51. I guess we are screwn then n/t

[slipslidingaway]

20. knr - Wonder what the deficit commission is saying about Medicare behind ...

closed doors. If they talking about future deficits, then they have to be discussing Medicare.

[TBF]

22. I've been outraged since Health Care -

and I know you have been as well. Thanks for rallying the troops. We're going to need all the help we can get.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

23. "Simpson & his gang of thieves... "

Um, who's in charge here?

:think:

[SammyWinstonJack]

38. Obama is responsible for this commission. It's his to own.

[slipslidingaway]

24. Link - Social Security Trust Fund Data - surplus year by year

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/funds.html

Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund, 1937-2009

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/STATS/table4a1.html

[Lasher]

26. Exactly as you say.

No changes whatever to Social Security until Treasury pays back every dime it owes the Trust Fund. Anything else is morally reprehensible.

[glitch]

30. +infinity. nt

[chill_wind]

49. +100

[femrap]

27. this is their plan....

they'll do this around Xmas when everyone is busy. We must make everyone aware.

I told my mother of this yesterday and she was shocked. She's 82. She'll be telling her friends.

[chill_wind]

28. An excellent OP that lays it out very well. K & R.

eom

[laughingliberal]

32. K & R nt

[scarletwoman]

34. K&R - this isn't just a battle for the "Professional Left (tm)" against DC, this is a battle

for the entire working class. We can NOT allow this blatant theft!

[SammyWinstonJack]

35. K&R

:grr: :mad: :nuke:

[SammyWinstonJack]

36. K&R

:grr: :mad: :nuke:

[ProfessionalLeftist]

37. So what do you suggest we do?

I have written to WhiteHouse.gov. Should we ALL bombard that email address with OUTRAGE about this?

Daily/Weekly?

[Axle_techie]

55. daily bombardment sounds good

[pleah]

40. K&R

I'm there, waiting for others to join me. :grr:

[ChiciB1]

91. If You Think They Are Reading YOUR Letters & Pleas For Help... Think Again!!

I've written so many letters and called so many times, and have YET to get ANY reply!

It's going to take organizing and hitting the streets! And I don't care how many of you disagree with me about "marching" I now truly believe that it's going to be THE ONLY WAY to get ANY attention!!

Obama & OUR Democrats have not only turned their back on us, they now seem less likely to fight for the rights of the American underclass or middle America!!

It's nothing less than a SIN and kicking sand in our faces!!!

[pleah]

98. I agree! n/t

[earth mom]

41. What Simpson is trying to do is CRIMINAL.

:grr:

[Subdivisions]

43. No trying to it, earth mom. They're going to either kill SS or they're going to make

us work until we're dead and they're going to cut existing and future payments.

This nation is collapsing financially and there's no turning back now.

[earth mom]

45. Totally agree with you. We have to find a peaceful way to stop them.

Check out scarletwoman's OP here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9029245

[amborin]

44. knr

[Faygo Kid]

48. I find Obama's continuing backing of Simpson stunning - but then he appointed him, didn't he?

The fix was in with the catfood commission from the get-go. I found the whole thing amazing, but then Elizabeth Warren hasn't been appointed yet, has she, as consumer rep?

I have backed this administration to the hilt, but there's no way I can justify some of their actions. Simpson is near the top of that list.

[Capitalocracy]

52. You know why they're doing this?

Because they think you don't know.

Or dare I say, because they think it won't change your voting habits at all.

[bvar22]

53. Its already a done deal.

Just like Mandates with NO Public Option was a done deal.

All thats left is for the Kabuki Theater to play out.
Here is the script:

1) Saturate the Media with the meme that something MUST be done to "Reduce the Deficit" or there will be a catastrophe, and strongly imply that Social Security is one of the BIG causes for the deficit.

2)Remove Pentagon/Military Spending from any discussion of cuts,
and insist that anyone who even talks about cuts to Military Spending are crazy, drug addled extremists.

3)Give all the "Centrist Democrats" involved plenty of time to get out public statements that they support Social Security, and would never vote to reduce benefits.

4)Form a "Independent Secret Commission" to design a "Comprehensive Package" of ways to Reduce the Deficit. This package will be lengthy and complicated, and it WILL contain reductions to Social Security benefits. The package will also contain a few crumbs that ARE good for the economy. These crumbs will be minor in scale compared to the structural changes to Social Security.

The "Commission Recommendations" will also contain some scam that opens the door for Wall Street to have access to Social Security funds. For cover, the package will also contain some easily avoidable "regulations" that will appear to restrict how Wall Street can use the Social Security Funds, but these "regulations" are NOT there to actually REGULATE; they are there to provide cover.


5)The Marketing and Message Control will be Up and Running when the contents of the package is revealed. The Media will be saturated with pieces that highlight and overemphasize the few good crumbs, and catastrophizing the effects of not passing "The Comprehensive Package".
(SEE: TARP)


6)The Progressive Caucus opposition WILL be marginalized (again), and the full force of the White House, the DLC, DNC, and their Corporate Marketing & Messaging apparatus will be used to brand any "Democratic" opposition as "traitors", "with the Republicans", "against Wall Street Regulation", "against the American People", "against Saving Social Security" or "Opposed to Saving our Children".
There will be a saturation of anecdotal testimony highlighting how certain crumbs will "Save our Family", therefore the whole package MUST pass.
The Mighty Wurlitzer will be turned UP to FULL BLAST.
Any and ALL opposition from The Left WILL be Shouted Down and Demonized.
(SEE: HCR)

7)The Republican Party will play their assigned part in the Kabuki, and oppose the whole thing as "Big Government Takeover". It doesn't matter that their position makes no sense. It only matters that they oppose it so the illusion of a difference is maintained.

8)The "Commission Recommendations" will be brought to Congress to be voted on as a "complete comprehensive package", Up or Down vote, during the panic immediately following the Democratic Losses in November 2010.
No honest debate will be allowed.
No discussion of amending the package or deleting some elements will be allowed.
Democrats will NOT be "voting to cut Social Security".
They will be voting FOR "Saving the Economy", or "Protecting our Children (from the deficit)".

9) The Complete Comprehensive Package of Commission Recommendations WILL pass with a Party Line vote, or one or two Republican defectors if necessary to maintain the illusion of a Hard Fight.
No Democrat will have to admit that they voted to Cut Social Security.
Instead, they voted FOR a Reform Package that Saved the Economy.


10) The politicians will flock to the cameras with statements like this:

"I am on record as supporting Social Security, and of course I would have liked to NOT cut benefits, but we had to do something."

"This is "historic" reform legislation, look at all the good (crumbs) we got!"

"We couldn't let the Perfect be the Enemy of the Good."

"This is the best we could do under the circumstances because we didn't have the votes.

"This is a Step Forward."

"Today, we saved our children from a crushing deficit."

"We needed to get something done NOW. We will Fix it Later.

Sound familiar?
It should.

If you think I'm a little over the top in my assessment,
take a look at Chris Van Hollen's (weasel, MD) performance when asked a direct question on cutting Social Security:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wHr3nMG6Y4

Again,
No Democrat will be voting to "Cut Social Security".
They WILL be voting FOR "Comprehensive Historic Reform that Saves our Children."

THAT is WHY this diabolical Commission and "The Comprehensive Package" is so necessary.


They are coming.
"By their works you will know them."

[lib2DaBone]

104. BVAR22 Well said. You have summarized he process exactly.

Rinse...repeat. Use for HealthCare, War, Environment, or for any issue when you need to steamroll the American Voters in favor of the Wall Street elite.


It's not Fasicm.. it's the "Patriot Act".

It's not illegal search and seizure.. it's "Homeland Security"

It's not gut Social Security and screw the middle class.... it's "Protecting our Children from the Deficit".

[ProgressiveEconomist]

56. My minor quibble: Thread title says 'permanent theft', while first line says "never honor

the bond obligations of the Treasury to the SS trust fund"

Which is accurate? I agree with the thrust of your OP, I think it's impoortant, and I want you to be clear and completely accurate.

IMO, the first line of the post is accurate, while the phrase in the thread title is misleading.

It's not as if Republicans want to draw down the Social Security Trust Fund and apply that money to things other than Social Security.

No, when the cash flow from FICA turns negative, they want to cut benefit obligations to seniors and the disabled, so that the Trust Fund has little opportunity to demand that Congress appropriate cash or authorize new borrowing to DRAW DOWN the Trust Fund.

Trust Fund bonds designed in the 1930s for short-term lending to the Treasury morphed into ingenious long-term non-publicly-traded "accounting gimmick bonds" ehen Reagan's Greenspan Commission engineered massive positive future FICA cash flows in 1983.

The real genius of the system is what happens after the FICA cash flow turns negative. If Congress does not use tax revenues or new borrowing to draw down the Trust Fund, to pay seniors and the disabled what they're owed and expect, what happens?

IMO, the Trust Fund actually looks greater in size than would have been expected! Thus a perpetually healthy-looking Trust Fund would mask what really had happened--diversion of past FICA to regressive general tax revenues, funding mainly Reagan-Bush massive income tax "cuts" for the wealthy!

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9024748 .

Do you agree?

If so, please be extra careful in entitling future reposts of this important theme.

[creeksneakers2]

70. That money isn't stolen until somebody renigs on the deal

They are pretending it was already stolen so people will think its gone and not worth fighting for.

It was borrowed. It should be paid back. There was no accounting gimmick.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

76. 'They are pretending it was already stolen so people will think it's gone'

Important new point--this may be what Simpson and Company will say when asked where all our FICA deductions went.

'There was no accounting gimmick'. I stiill disagree with that. Long-term Treasury borrowing from Social Security took an unusual form. Unlike the usual publicly-traded bonds the Federal Government normally issues, Trust Fund bonds have only one potential buyer: the US Treasury, at maturity. Had the Social Security Trust Fund been given publicly-tradable bonds, administrators of Social Security would have had many more options at their disposal to fill the coming FICA shortfall, rather than just waiting for Congress to appropriate tax revenues, issue new tradable bonds and give SSA the cash, or cut benefits Boomers already have more than paid for.

[creeksneakers2]

101. I don't follow you

No matter who holds the bonds, they will only be redeemed by Uncle Sugar. SS had to cash bonds this year. Was there any trouble getting the money? I didn't hear about anything like that and doubt it happened. I assume SS can cash in their bonds whenever they want, so why would they ever want to sell them to a third party, who would only become involved if they were going to get a cut?

[Canuckistanian]

57. Funny how SS raiding was STOPPED during the Bush administration

And yet suddenly that possibility is now ALIVE again.

It's the Zombie manoeuvre.

It'll NEVER die unless a stake is put into it's black heart - to mix a few metaphors here.

[defendandprotect]

60. Everyone recognized W as the enemy .... they don't yet see Obama that way....

Simpson has offered a bit of a clue as to what's going on, but many

people still have faith in Obama because . . . he's a Democrat!!

And a "Democrat" would never set up Social Security and Medicare to be attacked --

Right????

[Wednesdays]

58. K&R

:kick:

[cjbgreen]

61. Terrible

We now have two parties,the Republican Party (formerly known as the Democratic Party and the Tea Party (fascists coming out from under the rocks).

[defendandprotect]

59. How many DU'ers this week have called or e-mailed elected officials?

Obama -- Congress --

I did e-mail the White House and then didn't get back to the Senate/USHR -- etal --

Think Monday will be better but will try to do a few tomorrow --

[MzNov]

64. Meeee

at least 4 email so far, and I've been doing it since the cat food commission was formed

[defendandprotect]

67. Think quite a few of us filled out various PETITIONS for Simpson firing?????

but I didn't call anyone yet --

This was SHOCKING enough when W did it --

This is outrageous what Obama has done -- !!!

And I don't see a lot of Democrats in Congress calling him on it -- !!????


:crazy:

[Eyerish]

62. K&R

[HooptieWagon]

63. BINGO! The intent is to make borrowing from SS a permanent state,

and they'll never have to worry about paying it back. Theft is what it is, and Obama and the DLC are behind it.

[defendandprotect]

69. Right... no longer overburdening poor/middle class with lies about "baby boomers" ....

and unnecessary hikes in FICA rates --

just a Social Security Slush Fund which is what's it's been all along!!

Social Security was never intended to run a surplus -- it was intended to be a

pay-as-you-go system --

[Fumesucker]

66. My personal opinion is that it's a done deal..

Nothing on this Earth can now stop the gutting of Social Security, the powers that be want it and they will get it.

Wake up and smell the Zyklon B..

[pa28]

68. K&R

[dflprincess]

71. Wake up and face facts it's not "Simpson & his gang of thieves"

Simpson did not appoint himself to this commission.

Obama put him there knowing just what Simpson would do. The White House admitted this when it said it accepted Simpson's "apology" and refused to remove him when the opportunity presented itself.

[area51]

74. +1 n/t

[sabrina 1]

103. That is the sad truth ~

[Michigan-Arizona]

72. K&R n/t

[Timbuk3]

73. Ummm...

...if the projections are correct and the Democrats are going to lose a shit-load of seats in the House, I WANT the lame duck House to be the ones to vote on it, not the incoming House.

If it comes to an upperdown vote on gutting SS, I'd trust this House. The next one scares me.

[LiberalAndProud]

75. How will it get past the 60 votes in the Senate?

That's the thing I'm not understanding. It won't make it to the House until the Senate sends it there.

[Timbuk3]

80. Spending Bills

...originate in the house.

[LiberalAndProud]

83. That was my understanding too.

That's why I can't make sense of any of this. I asked earlier and was told the commission is a stealth run around Congress.

From the linked story above.

Embedded in the rule is the requirement that the House will vote on the deficit commission’s recommendations in the lame duck session if they pass the Senate.

And the actual language here.

“Commits the House to vote on any Senate-passed recommendations of the bipartisan Fiscal Commission and that net savings from any Commission recommendations will go to deficit reduction.”

[Lorien]

93. Make it 51 votes as Bush did and force them to fillibuster

you think the repugs and blue dogs would want to be seen doing THAT right now?

[Hoyt]

77. I agree, I think.

Certainly hope people are jumping the gun here. I'm a few years from needing SS, and just don't think things are that ominous. But, I'm glad folks are worried about this. I'm not as quite as confident about our leaders as I was when I voted in 2008. So I guess I also agree with those who are raising hell.

[Timbuk3]

78. Believe this

I'm as worried as you are about the catfood commission recommendations.

I can see them being used for years as the "bipartisan, Democratic WH sponsored 'solutions' to the SS 'crisis'".

But if anyone's going to vote on them I want it to be *this* house, not the one coming in, in 2011.

If they're voted down "the word" will be "it was a partisan congress". It's going to be hard to win this.

But voting them down is step one.

[pa28]

82. This is the only silver lining I can think of to a loss in November.

The outgoing Democrats will suddenly find religion and the incoming Congress will consider the commission report to be radioactive waste.

[Mimosa]

81. K&R n/t

[blue neen]

85. Wow. I haven't seen you post so much since the health care debate!

:hi:

[upi402]

86. um hehe, you said "Democratic leadership"

:spray: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[jumptheshadow]

87. I want every dollar I gave back...

and with interest. After 43 years of contributions, that should be quite a chunk of change.

[juajen]

96. Not only what you gave, but what your employers gave as a reason

to withhold raises continuously, as they were paying into your ss fund. I had that excuse given me so many times, yet it was an incentive to work for the low wages because you had to count in what they put in your fund. So, it would be double what you paid in.

[customerserviceguy]

88. If you think this commission is stoppable (and I don't)

then Simpson did you a big favor by his intemperate use of language. He's the only thing that's gotten the commission anywhere near the front pages. Outside of hardcore political activists on our side, the American public has had practically zero knowledge of this commission, and the fact that the lame-duck Congress is going to rubber stamp whatever it does.

I used to have faith. I really thought that the advocates of single payer would help give a Democratic Congress the political courage to finally join the rest of the civilized world in how we paid for and administered healthcare. Failing that, I believed that a real public option would surely be the vehicle by which the American people would gradually bring themselves over to single payer, as the private, for-profit healthcare companies withered and died, as they lost customers.

Perhaps why some of you can see why I'm pretty negative when it comes to this commission. All we can really hope to do is propose reforms that steer the raising of taxes and the cutting of benefits in a more fair way than the Rethugs and the Blue Dogs would take us.

[ProgressIn2008]

97. I don't think the "spinelessness" critique cuts it anymore, if it ever did. K&R