News Flash: Some Tea Party supporters are good people

[hedgehog]

I live in an Upstate New York semi-rural county. There used to be a couple factories here that paid enough to get by on, but those places closed. The kids who made it to college have mostly left town to get work elsewhere. So, here's the situation:

You have a lot of older people looking around and seeing their town running down. There are a lot of old family homes that can't be sold for what they're worth, so they're being rented. The renters tend to be people on some sort of public assistance. The rents are so low that the landlords tend to let maintenance slide. People who have worked hard all their lives and who are starting to be up against it look around and what do they see? People look at their pay stubs and they see all the deductions for taxes. They don't see the money that isn't there because wages have been more or less frozen for the last 30 years. They don't see the money spent on the Defense establishment. They don't have any idea of the massive shift of wealth to the very top 0.1%. What they do see is a bunch of tattooed layabouts doing drugs and having babies and living off their hard earned money.

These people are scared and they are angry. They have followed all the rules, but things are going to hell all around them. They are sitting ducks for all the Sarah Palins and Glenn Becks with easy answers and ready scapegoats.

Now, I said these were good people, and many (most?) are. There are benefits to raise money for medical bills or help a burned out family every week-end. There are dozens of volunteer groups working to make life here a little better.

If we write these people off as "morans", we lose. We need to figure out how to communicate with these people to get them to understand that we're on their side, and that they are being used by the Right. It's a lot harder to change people than it is to dismiss them all as "morans", but we've got to do it if we want to make progress.

[LynneSin]

1. You know what - i know alot of old folks that live in rural parts of the states...

and not all of them buy into the bullshit. If these folks can't bother to turn off Faux News and try to learn something then why should I feel empathy with them.

I mean should I feel sorry for this elderly woman because she's just scared?

[hedgehog]

3. If you can't feel sorry for her out of simple humanity, why not

try to reach her out of simple strategy?

I suspect that a lot of people we see in pictures like this are simply the mean girls we all knew back in school. I have to say, I don't think there is any hope for these people. I'm thinking of the lady I buy my chicken feed from. She runs a feed store out of her back yard. She has a couple calves, a dozen horses and a couple dogs wandering around. (I'm not sure whether to classify the Great Danes as dogs or horses!) She's had a hard life, there's a son who died as a teenager in an accident. her husband runs a small construction outfit. She asked me to sign her nominating petition for a Tea Party candidate, and I politely declined. Now, if we could get this lady working with us instead of against us, we'd all come out ahead.

The question is, would we rather feel superior and look down on these people, or do we really want to make this country a better place for everyone?

[Kweli4Real]

23. Rather Than Having Politely Declined ...

Did you question why she supported the teaparty candidate? The strategy has to be to educate these "good people", so that they stop working against their own interests. We do this by questioning her as to how this candidate will make her life better and correcting her mis-information?

[Quantess]

12. "Elderly"? I'll bet she's younger than you think she is.

She is in such bad shape, she probably is at least 10 years younger than she looks.

[Fumesucker]

2. "Tattooed layabouts"?

:rofl:

Is that anything like "young bucks"?

And are they buying T-Bone steaks and driving Cadillacs?

[hedgehog]

10. I should have put that into quotes! My town would make for an interesting case study.

Usually, when white middle class people hear "welfare", they think of a person of color who lives in the city. Here, most people are white, so most people on welfare are also white. What working people here see is a group of white people like themselves, who appear to have had all the opportunities they had, who are living off welfare (i.e. my hard earned money) out of simple laziness. The town is small enough that most of these people grew up together and know each other's families. When an older white guy trying to pay his bills sees a young white guy covered with tattoos and piercings waking down the street with a pit bull......and he knows that kid has never held a job and isn't looking for work.....

Well, I think you get the picture. The funny part is, Sarah Palin's kids look to be turning into the very sort her supporters despise.

[Fumesucker]

16. Every person I know under thirty has tats..

My son in law is thirty one, makes $80k a year and has several tats, my daughter has them and one of their friends has his earlobes stretched out like something you used to see in National Geographic..

These are mostly upper middle class "kids" (from my point of view they are kids).

I on the other hand have no tats at all and haven't had a job in about two years now..

Go figure..

[pipi_k]

40. The most surprising people have them...

Like my five kids/stepkids

One is a licensed psychologist

One is an RN

One is a compliance officer with a major insurance company

One manages a flooring company store

One is a HHA

They have tattoos

I have three of them myself.

We're all over the age of 30

:7

[Hansel]

29. Don't know about your town, but some of the same ones doing the complaining

about welfare in my town simply hide the fact that they or theirs collect it themselves.

They have their stories about how "so and so" is scamming the system and had 3 kids on welfare and never worked a day in their lives. However, plenty of them and members of their families have relied on welfare at one time or another, but they don't look at themselves as welfare people. The generalized stereotypes seems to be reserved only for the people they don't like.

I worked for the AFDC (welfare) department for a couple of years when I was younger. Some of the biggest blowhards railing against welfare held their hands out for assistance with no shame whatsoever right along side "those welfare people". Two prominent groups of such folk were 1)seasonal workers who spent their money at the bars during the work season and lined up for food-stamps and medical aide as soon as the last job was complete; and 2) those who knocked up one or even several women and refused to pay child support so their children were forced onto welfare. Woe to anyone who would point out that hypocrisy.

Every time I hear someone talk about how they work hard and pulled themselves up by their bootstraps while simultaneously bitching about paying for those lazy people, my ass twitches. I've seen far too many of these same people with their hands out.

A rule of thumb: usually when one has to toot his own horn about how hard he works and how he alone has always taken care of himself, there's a good chance that image of who he claims to be falls short in reality. There is a certain insecurity there that belies their claims. Lots of people work hard and lots of people fall on hard times. And nothing is ever as it appears to be from a distance. Tattoos and all.

[hedgehog]

34. I think some of the denigration of those on welfare is out of

fear of needing welfare. "If I can point out all the mistakes those lazy people made in their lives, I can prove that I will never be in their place."

[vi5]

4. I agree with most of this, but....

"What they do see is a bunch of tattooed layabouts doing drugs and having babies and living off their hard earned money."

Where exactly do they see this, and even if they do, how does this give them an excuse to align themselves with racists (which many of the tea party members and leaders are)?

I mean it's great that they are so understanding and loving of their own community, but if they can't see that the same type of need exists outside of that community and that's what government is trying to do, then I'm not sure how even with the most extensive of discussions, that you "reach" someone like that?

I'm not saying that they are evil human beings. I know some tea partiers myself both friends, co-workers and family members, and they aren't 100% filed with malice. But the hardcore truth is that there is an ignorance to this mindframe that is just patently unreachable. I'd love to believe that you could just sit someone who has been open and susceptible to someone like Palin or Beck or whoever else, and explain this stuff to them and have their eyes opened to it, but I'm cynical enough to know that's just not going to happen. These are people for whom the same stuff was happening for 8 years under Bush and Republican rule and they didn't have even a fraction of this level of rage and anger. But now they do? Why is that exactly?

Of course I also see that this is just as much our elected democrats and democratic leaders fault because they've just as much enabled the policies that have impoverished so many communities like this around the country.

[hedgehog]

14. I should make clear that race doesn't really enter into the picture

here. In fact, we have a lot of folks from Mexico and Jamaica working on local farms. These people are spoken of admiringly as hard workers. It's the local whites who are on welfare who are looked down upon as lazy drug users.

I see these kids walking down the street, in the grocery store, hanging out. It's not like a suburb where the streets are empty.

[BurtWorm]

5. Almost every single one of those teabaggers is a Republican of the most conservative, close-minded

kind. They are not going to be courted by Democrats because they believe Democrats are Marxist-Leninists. You can try to reason with them if you'd like. You can also try to reason with a baloney sandwich.

[Cal33]

So the Neocons keep on with their falsehoods because it

pays being pathological liars, and if they keep long enough at it. We know
this from experience, don't we?

[Cal33]

21. So the Neocons keep on with their falsehoods because it

pays being pathological liars, and if they keep long enough at it. We know
this from experience, don't we?

[hlthe2b]

6. "scared, angry" and insanely ignorant...

Well-intentioned, perhaps, but this level of ignorance carries with it some culpability.

[stuntcat]

30. +1

I bet most of them feel they're doing the Good thing. also they can't imagine not being racist or see what's wrong about that.

[AlinPA]

7. I live in western PA and the situation is similar. Because I have lived here in 3 different

towns in the immediate area for a long time and belong to several different organizations and have attended 4 different churches, I know a lot of people, many of them teabaggers. Every single one of the teabaggers I know is an ignorant slob. Futher, absolutely none of them are Democrats.

[CanonRay]

8. You are correct in your principle

however, in reality, these people have for the most part completely closed their minds. They would no more listen to a Liberal/Progressive than they would an Imam in a turban. Talking to them? Forget it. We have to minimize their impact as much as possible until they die out. I love your ideals, but it ain't happening.

[bowens43]

9. Nonsense. No bagger is a good person. nt

[T Wolf]

11. The phrase WILLFUL IGNORANCE comes to my mind. There is ample opprotunity in

today's world for anyone to learn the truth.

But, as research shows, people look for "facts" to support their already-held beliefs.

These people have been hurt alright, but not by us.

And just because a person raises money for a neighbor's medical bill does not make them a good person.

A good person supports everyone getting medical care, not just those whom they deem worthwhile.

At this point in history, the enemy gets no slack from me.

[mike r]

13. It takes a certain personality to be a bagger

Not the good kind.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

38. While I understand the point of the OP the truth is,

If McCain had been elected there would be no emergence of a Teabagger Party.
Regardless how economically devasted this country would be, and believe me it
would be far worse than what we see now, these people would feel they still had
ownership of their country. THERE IS A BLACK MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE. They want
"their" country back. It's simply more than their psyches are prepared to accept.
Not until "it" actually happened did the undercurrents of racism rear it's ugly head.

This is not an economic issue.

[comtec]

15. I seriously doubt that

Perhaps they are simply un or ill educated about the reality and facts of the situation.
but there is a special circle of hell for these hard core hateful types that makes of the core and most of the outer layers of the bag party.

I am willing to write the morans off, because at some point you have to stop.

you can't save everyone.

that's the brutal reality.

Humanity is better off without these types (choose a population) continuing to exist.

They bring us down, and slow our progress.
So no... i strongly disagree that teabaggers can be saved.

let them drift off, afloat from the rest of us, banished from this "horrible socialist" country... I don't care where, just away.

[DevonRex]

17. I speak from experience on this: bullfuckingshit. They were assholes before there WAS a tea party.

I know this because I have very close family members who are tea partiers. ULtraconservative, ultrareligious RW wackos is what they are.

[Iggo]

18. Good Nazis is still Nazis.

[snooper2]

19. It's not the Tea "Party"...They are Teabaggers, and proud of it

Please call them by the correct term..

And when they get together in a large group- it's a Teabagging party, with Beck as head Teabagger :rofl:

[pintobean]

20. Nice try

with predictable results.

[Touchdown]

22. Here's an idea. YOU figure out how to communicate with these people.

Then come and tell us how. The majority of us have tried and failed. I'm all tapped out of ideas, and am no longer able to respond to "We need to..." pleas. Sorry.

[TheKentuckian]

24. Good for nothing and certainly morans for listening to Palin and Beck.

All that got is hate, the good is for people like them or people they know. Their universe is the scope of their vision after that or for somebody "different" it is all alien and adversarial.

They aren't going through a damn thing that I'm not and for the most part have it easier and always have.

The key thing is you identify with them, some maybe friends and relations so you side with them and make excuses while joining the bullshit chorus talking crap about " What they do see is a bunch of tattooed layabouts doing drugs and having babies and living off their hard earned money.".

They can see, it is they who refuse to open their eyes and it is their wicked nature that makes them gravitate to their worldview. They have been kicked in the teeth for two generations and elect to solve it by licking the boots that bash their grill jagged.

They aren't about to change. They are willing, obedient slaves to the machine. I fight the machine and if they get stepped on in the way then motherfuck em. These type of folks aren't a new dynamic nor is their number shocking. Progress is made by trucking the bastards like ants or blades of grass and going after the ones that keep them fat and happy at the foot of master's bed.

Progress comes despite these people, not because of them. Point to a time that a majority changed shit, probably ever.

Its always a few determined instigators and agitators that make stuff happen that I can really think of.

Maybe your neighbors and cousins will have a few wake up, so much the better, converts have more passion than those born to beliefs but most of these miserable bastards will remain such.

Sometimes they can have a use though but we have no conception of that purpose now or by what lever to cause the desired performance.

I just don't see the cure for speculative greed, hatred of other, lack of empathy, and reflective reception to authoritarians around the corner other than maybe some very widespread bad times that whip some humility and perspective into hard and disengaged from reality heads.

Democracy only works in an established system on the scale we are talking about.

You want structural change? Plan on being grossly outnumbered and not well liked. You don't get popularity till people think you have at least a shot in the dark.

[EC]

25. So the town has been falling apart for years and not one

of them did anything to rehab it? If there are no jobs, how else do they expect the "bunch of tattooed layabouts" to provide for themselves? They seem to have no trouble employing immigrants as in your post further down, so point out to them that they helped their demise to the point it is now. They made their beds and now find the bed-bugs?


They are not redeemable, this is the same mindset of all tea people...they make their own crisis and then whine about how someone else did it to them...

[alc]

26. A lot of people think the government is broke

Many of them are not part of the progressive or tea party movement but want to get rid of the current congress whatever that takes. They can work with either side to do that because they agree with some points from either side. Being intolerant of the tea party and calling them names is not a good way to attract these people to the progressive side.

Good post hedgehog. Rural Georgia is very similar and I'd guess rural areas all over the country.

[Cal33]

27. They may be good people, but they are probably also ignorant.. nt

[hedgehog]

36. Is ignorant the same as permanently unteachable?

If not, how can we teach these people?

[Count Olaf]

28. I agree we should be uniting

Many of them are just confused NOT RACISTS

Many of them think we all love the health care plan. That is certainly a good place to start talking about how the corporations are running the entire country and how both parties are suffering because of it.

It is obvious that certain people stand to gain by dividing the American people. This is why they came up with the whole racist bullshit. This is not about racism. It is so stupid to keep saying it is racism. WE have seriously disturbing problems in this country and that is a created distraction.

We would be united if we had this defining moment where everyone realized we all HATE the wars, HATE the patriot act, the bailout and ALL the bullshit that has been going on...NONE of US want it.

We need to stop pointing the finger at each other and pull the curtain- expose the men behind the curtain!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

31. At best, they're useful idiots.

At worst, they're hypocritical racists.

[bvar22]

32. You are correct, and I applaud your post.

I live in Teabagger Central.
While there IS a strong Racist component, most that I have met are simply ill-informed, angry, and have been swayed by the propaganda.

Most of my neighbors in rural Arkansas ARE suffering from Economic Hard Times.
They ARE angry, and are correct that NOBODY is DOING anything about it.
The Republican Party has invested time and marketing into co-opting this anger as support FOR their party.
IMO, it IS a mistake to simply lump them into a monolithic group, and then ridicule and abandon them to the Republican Party.

I have been successful on several occasions in respectful conversations with ill-informed angry TeaBaggers in gently redirecting their anger at "The RICH" instead of "the Democrats", and then acknowledging that voting Republican won't help the situation.
I consider these engagements as a success.

When the Working Class & The Poor, Democrats and Republicans, realize that we have more in common with each other than we have with the Ruling Class, things WILL change.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. News Flash: Some Tea Party supporters are racists.

[Hugabear]

35. Sure, and some Klansmen are genuinely nice people if you just get to know them.

The views held by Tea Party members are repugnant. Just about every Tea Party idiot I've met has been quite bitter, they've all personally reviled Obama. If they aren't openly racist themselves, many of their political views are quite racist.

[NNN0LHI]

37. Very few of the racist assholes I am forced to know would actually participate in a lynching

But they wouldn't lift a finger to stop one either.

Are these people like that?

Don

[ibegurpard]

39. they will not listen to you

i guarantee it