I encountered a Muslim woman in my local supermarket this morning.

[11 Bravo]

She was wearing a burka, fully veiled. No one was openly harassing her, but people were just avoiding her, while snickering behind her back. No one would look at her, and when she sought help from a stock boy, he acted as if she were invisible. I had no idea what to do, so I summoned up the sole bit of Arabic I know, approached her, and said, "As-Salaam-Alaikum" (Peace be unto you). All I could see were her eyes, but at that moment those eyes conveyed more genuine emotion than Glenn Beck at his weepy worst. I thought for a moment she was going to hug me. Of course, she did not, but she responded with the traditional "Alaikum salaam". At that point all I could do was shrug and tell her, "That's all I know". She simply nodded her head and said, "Thank you."
The entire encounter took maybe 30 seconds, but I can't stop thinking about it. Those lying mother-fuckers - Beck, Palin, Limbaugh, and the entire FoxNoise crew, can sputter to their heart's content that their rhetoric is not "anti-Islam", but this woman would probably beg to disagree, and she is bearing the brunt of their hate.

on edit: typo

[seabeyond]

1. ah, hugs. a little piece of beauty in a whole lot of ugly. nt

[Raven]

2. Every little act of kindness and welcoming helps a great deal. Thank

you for making a difference for all of us today.

[lightningandsnow]

93. +1

[Oceansaway]

3. K&R...n/t

[Codeine]

4. She's as much a victim of her religion

as her religion is of the Beck/Limbaugh troglodytes. Without the perpetuation of 8th century desert mythologies she wouldn't be mandated to wear that ridiculous and imprisoning burka nonsense.

[JI7]

7. what if she is wearing it by choice ? this is in america isn't it ?

[dkf]

32. What if her husband makes her wear it?

[Quantess]

35. That's entirely possible.

I would support a ban on burqas. Sorry, I know that isn't the point of this thread, but that woman is possibly being oppressed by her own community.

[LAGC]

102. The problem with banning burqas...

Is that it would just condemn the woman to not being able to leave her house and ever go outside by herself. Don't think that's too helpful.

Better to condemn the practice and put pressure on those few fundamentalist Muslims who do still force it on women, to assimilate, than to pass a blanket ban on full-body veils.

Nothing will change without changed minds.

[Quantess]

105. "..it would just condemn the woman to not being able to leave her house"

What basis do you have for this argument? I see your point, but, is there anything that substantiates this argument?

But how does any society "condemn" a practice without acting like the onlookers / other people in this story?

[PerpetuallyDazed]

141. If you would support a ban on burqas

I would hope for your consistency and that you would support a ban on breast implants, tanning salons, anorexia, daisy dukes, micro-mini skirts, halter tops, ect.

"Victims of religion / victims of society..." ultimately, it all comes down to one's choice and no individual person is anymore more of a "victim" than another.

[Quantess]

207. I don't even know where to begin to address your ignorance.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to insult anyone in their pursuit of greater wisdom of things they don't normally think about.

The ban on burqas is supported in many european nations as a way to ease oppression of women. I have to say that I agree. You are naiive if you think a woman wearing a burqa is free to do anything. She's like a dog on a chain.

Breast implants are another dysfunction of society altogether, and not related to any oppressive religion.

"Daisy Dukes", "miniskirts" "haltertops"..... to you I say, **** off, because I will wear them if I want to. Can fundies wear the same clothes if they want to?

[JI7]

40. that would be wrong if she was made to. but what if she is doing it by choice

[dkf]

69. If that is really want she wants to wear then of course it's fine

But if she feels pressured into it then I feel bad for her. I don't think I could do that. Too hot.

[alcibiades_mystery]

91. Luckily, Western non-Islamic women never feel pressured to wear types of clothing

:sarcasm:

[Quantess]

99. Not sure about you, but I don't get beaten or arrested for wearing whatever the hell I want.

I go check the mail in pajamas and bunny ears, and if it's hot outside, I water the plants wearing a bikini. Go stick that "sarcasm" in your ass, if you like.

[alcibiades_mystery]

156. Tell your story to

Brandon Teena.

Oh that's right. You can't.

I mean, have you really missed the last 60 years of feminist thought? Just because a social convention is enforced by other modes than physical violence (sometimes, anyway, see above) doesn't make it any less coercive.

[burnsei sensei]

174. With respect, the reference to Brandon Teena

is a non sequitur here.
Brandon was always a man, always male. It would insult his memory to say otherwise.
If we believe the mind to be supreme over the body, then we must conclude that even when he had the female name and female clothing, he was still a man.
Brandon was forced to wear female clothing because of the cultural intolerance of transgender people.
It had nothing to do with modesty, immodesty, fashion or precedent.
Nor did his distress and ultimate murder have to do with an immigrant culture.

[Quantess]

208. "feminist thought"....?

Are you really interested in discussing this with me?

Brandon Teena, now there is a tragedy.

[whathehell]

195. Please....It's not even comparable. n/t

[JI7]

41. that would be wrong if she was made to. but what if she is doing it by choice

[defendandprotect]

81. Would you wear a burqa on a 90 degree day where only your eyes are seen?

Why would she?

How many males would wear them? Where are they?

The burqua is a symbol of male oppression vs women -- that's all --

[JDPriestly]

124. It is Ramadhan, a Muslim holiday. It may be that this woman

was wearing her burka the way we might wear uncomfortable clothing at Easter or put ashes on our foreheads on Good Friday if we were Catholic. Nuns in America wore habits that were a lot like burkas all day long when I was a girl. That's not that long ago. Sorry if I already answered you on this.

[Chulanowa]

130. Yeah, but those are "real" religions

:sarcasm:

[amandabeech]

211. Catholics go to church on Ash Wednesday to have a priest make the shape of a cross on their forehead

Ash Wednesday is the beginning of Lent. It is the only day of the calendar on which Catholics wear ashes.

Good Friday is the day on which Christ was crucified and died on the cross. That day involves no ashes, but Catholics have a special service referred to as "Stations of the Cross."

Nuns, to my knowledge, have never covered their faces, and their traditional habits generally show a bit more of the female form than, say, a chador.

[readmoreoften]

47. What if a husband pressures his wife to wear bikini tops?

The "husband made me do it" stuff is way overestimated.

[stlsaxman]

67. +1!

[JDPriestly]

125. What if an American woman has breast implants so that she

can wear a bikini that someone wants her to wear?

Are breast implants the American punishment for being a woman? I could make a good argument that breast implants are much worse than burkas. Why do women get breast implants (other than for medical reasons after a mastectomy)? Can you imagine going through surgery to have breast implants? Much worse than wearing a burka.

[Raoul]

162. great

response JD!!

[Quantess]

131. According to you, and your own culture, yes,

But that shows cultural insensitivity if you are not willing to accept the fact that other cultures are different from your own.

If another culture treats women like shit, then why not just say so?

[sabrina 1]

117. What if he doesn't? What if he wishes she would be

more Americanized? Why assume she is married at all?

Why stereotype her when we don't know anything about her?

[lumberjack_jeff]

170. Husbands can do that?

Wait... I just tried to tell my wife to wear a burkha and she said no.

I don't understand. The DU says I control her by virtue of being her husband.

[Quantess]

213. As as woman off her leash, I allow myself the frredom to slap you in the face.

:rofl:

[miscsoc]

194. then she should be punished and mocked

rather than shown a bit of kindness from a random stranger in a supermarket

[DissedByBush]

72. Even "choice" is questionable

She could have thought of the whole situation critically and made that choice.

Or she is following years of intense indoctrination, emotionally beaten down until she accepts the orders of her male masters as truth.

This is why I don't accept Muslim enclaves being allowed to conduct their affairs through Sharia.

It is highly likely the women would get screwed under such a system, either intimidated or indoctrinated into accepting misogynistic justice.

[defendandprotect]

82. Exactly . . .

free choice is something quite different -- free and informed choice --

and feeling the protection of democracy which should guarantee freedom from

religious oppression.

[Chulanowa]

103. In other words...

A woman who does not conform to your desires and expectations of her is mindless, incapable of rational choice, and needs your paternal guiding hand to make her decisions for her, because she is obviously helpless and deluded.

Yep, sounds like you're an American "feminist" alright. Tell me, do you ever wonder why this style of feminism hasn't caught on outside the US and Western Europe?

Here's a tip; Not every woman on earth desires to conform to the Anglo-Protestant standards you hold, and many are quite offended by assertions such as yours, that the choices she makes are invalid because YOU did not make them for her.

I suggest you pick up "Paradise Beneath Her feet" by Isobel Coleman. It could go a long way towards introducing you to the world of Islamic and Muslim feminism. I'm sure you'll go on dismissing the women accounted in that book as being mindless nothigns incapable of free thought, but still wouldn't hurt to have a look at it.

[Quantess]

106. Go ahead, tell us women about feminism. Oh, how patronizing.

I suggest you listen more and talk less, about the way women get treated.

[Chulanowa]

109. I absolutely will, at least those of you who suck at it

I suggest that you pay more attention to the fact that other women are fully capable of making lucid and rational choices, even if you disagree with them.

Also? A vagina is not a replacement for a brain. If being a woman were all it took to "get" feminism, this one would be heading NOW:

[Quantess]

111. So can I likewise be an expert at American Indian discrimination?

[Chulanowa]

114. Sure. Lots of non-Indians are.

It's an actual field of study, after all. You can take courses in it. even if you choose not to, there's plenty of material available for research. hell, you can even head out to the rez and get some information from primary sources.

Seriously, if you were trying to make a point here, it was a pretty silly attempt.

Go read that book I mentioned. it's no college course, but it'll serve as a nice start-up for information on the subject of feminism in Islam. Here's the Amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/Paradise-Beneath-Her-Feet-Transforming/dp/1400066956

They're not all stupid mindless dumbasses who need your control.

[Quantess]

116. Good repair.

You were the one who made an attempt to make the point that I was similar to Sarah Palin, which fell flat.

I have zero interest in telling Native Americans how they SHOULD FEEL. Maybe you need to get over yourself and not try to tell females how they SHOULD FEEL.

[Chulanowa]

120. If you felt I was comparing you to Sarah Palin...

Then that would seem to be your own psyche speaking to you. I simply mentioned that if having a vagina automatically made a person an informed feminist, she would be chairing NOW.

After all, that was your argument. That your possession of a uterus somehow makes you more informed than someone who's put time and effort into actually learning the subject. To use your mention of Indian studies, what you did was kind of as if you had told Dee Brown or Peter Mathissen to sit down and shut up because your grandmother was a cherokee princess so that makes you more informed than either of them.

I'm not telling anyone how they should feel. I'm telling people that they are acting like assholes and demonstrating the same paternalistic, misogynistic attitudes they are pretending to loathe when they dismiss the notion that other women may be able to make rational and informed choices.

I think you're the one who needs to explore some self-getting-over, Quantess. While you're at it, set those patriarchal bastard strawmen on fire, 'cause girlfriend, you do not need them.

[Quantess]

122. Awesome, dude! Pass that bong over here so I can suck down as many bong hits I can

before passing out.

[Chulanowa]

129. Sheesh, I wish n/t

[Quantess]

132. I don't have any weed, sorry, but I have had a few drinks.

:hi:

[tavalon]

136. You've done a good job defending your position

"girlfriend" didn't work, but I can understand you're frustration.

This is a complex issue, with layer upon layer and yes, many of us are like fish and water - we don't recognize when we're spouting paternalism when we think we're carrying the banner of feminism.

[Dorian Gray]

145. I do believe that in the USA

Sharia Law should not be allowed to be practiced. No way.

Having said that, I also don't think we can judge or presume that a woman dressed in full hijab or burka has been compelled to do so. Is it probably? Probably, yes. But just the assumption takes away her choice of free practice of religion, and unless there is actual proof that she has been compelled to wear said attire by her community/husband/father/etc.

[EstimatedProphet]

165. How about Hasidism? Should that be denied too?

[Dorian Gray]

197. Hasidic practices?

No. Hasidic courts of law? Of course. There is only one law of the land here in the US, and no other legal courts should be allowed.

Sharia LAW is a problem, not Muslim customs or Islamic practices.

[EstimatedProphet]

199. Sharia LAW is not set in a courtroom

It's not law as we mean governmental law. It's religious practice, so it is no more than Muslim custom, and not much different in context than a Papal decree or kosher law, as other examples of religious laws.

[demosincebirth]

Agree. nt

[gerenimox]

16. how about those who want to hang out naked?

the medieval christian laws in the US forbid being naked in public. I want to be as free as the Amazon tribesmen but the American laws force me to wear clothes. Isn`t this barbaric?

[roguevalley]

66. frankly, given the shape of most of the men and women i know,

I am all for the clothing required laws.

[iamjoy]

94. We Do Have Nudist Colonies

I mean, there are nudist communities in this country and you would be free to go naked as the day you were born.

But hey, let's face it, in the US it is not illegal for a man to walk about in public topless, but it is for a woman. So we have a bit of our own double standard here.

Still, the burka takes it to a whole new level. I think part of the problem is not just islamaphobia or cries of sexism. I think there's something about us that feels uncomfortable when we can't see the other person's face. I'm not talking about Halloween, Costume Parties or Masked Galas when many people (men and women) choose to cover all or part of their face. In everyday life, looking at some one's face is how we make a connection with them, determine if we can trust them, get a sense of them as a person, etc. When we can't see their face, we have a harder time making that connection. If they can see ours, we may even feel vulnerable or exposed. Or maybe they just stand out as an oddity - like the person wearing clothes at a nude resort.

Or maybe I'm just projecting my thoughts on others. The burka makes me uncomfortable, angry, mistrustful. But I see a woman in a hijab (just covering her hair, face exposed) and I don't have such negative feelings, although sometimes there is an idle curiosity about whether she's really donning it voluntarily. The way some women wear the hijab, it almost becomes a fashion accessory. I know that's not the point of it, but when it is pretty or coordinates well it helps me believe this really was a choice and no longer seems like a symbol of oppression.

[JDPriestly]

126. How old are you? Have you ever seen a nun in a habit?

Used to be quite common. Women in America have the freedom to make choices. That's the law. We all enjoy religious freedom. If a woman chooses to wear a burka or a wig or a hat or a shawl or nothing at all on her head, that is her business.

[mrs_p]

149. the poster was commenting

on the lack of seeing the other person's face -- i could always see the nun's face in her full habit -- and, it certainly wasn't always nice (especially just before my "punishments")

[JDPriestly]

172. Rarely do I see a burka with the face covered as much as in the pictures.

I'm in L.A. and we see quite a few different kinds of religious garb. I have seen a few with that mask. I'm not sure that the wearing of a mask in that fashion should be permitted in all situations, say when cashing a check or speaking to a police officer, since it makes photo identification very difficult. If a person is just shopping, why do I need to see that person's face. Of course, I might feel differently if I were running a store -- since the security cameras would not permit photo identification, let's say, of a shoplifter wearing a face mask.

[iamjoy]

155. The Habit is More Like a Hijab

I see the habits nuns used to wear as more like a hijab.

And I do sometimes wonder why a woman would choose such a life, or feel "called" to it. I'm a little suspicious of the Catholic Church now because of everything they are doing to limit reproductive freedom. Preaching to your congregation is one thing, but threatening Pro-Choice elected officials that they can't take communion is another entirely.

If Imans in America would stand up and start screaming about the "unborn children" in this country, the Right Wing Religious types would fall in love with Islam.

[seabeyond]

27. i think most people wrapped up in religions are victims to it. i would still be kind. nt

[alarimer]

157. I agree with you.

All the major religions are misogynistic. It is one reason I am an atheist. But the hatred and ridicule on display in this country over Muslims is disgusting. Sometimes I really hate this country and Americans in general. Ignorant fucking pieces of shit. Unfortunately people like Palin and Beck usually live to ripe old ages instead of dying of painful illnesses like they deserve.

[Codeine]

176. On that we agree.

I'm just a little baffled that suddenly Islam is flavor of the month at DU.

[seabeyond]

180. hear ya. on the center posts, i was hearing "defending" religion and it was never the defense of

that or any religion. i don't believe in defending any religion. but.... i do believe in defending others right to religion.

i had to clarify often.

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. And those Amish - DAMN! - doing field work in long sleeved shirts?

And you ever see their funny hats? They look like Hassidic Jews - and don't get me started on THEM.

[Quantess]

44. From what I understand of the Amish,

they are perfectly free to leave their Amish community if it is not truly in their hearts, and they are welcome to join the mainstream culture if they choose.

Fundamental Muslim women, not so much.

[PSzymeczek]

90. Yes, they are.

I have Amish relatives, third cousins and such. They can leave, but their families must shun them.

[Quantess]

97. Amish relatives don't at least beat them senseless for disavowing their religion?

No "honor killings"?

By the way, thank you for posting. I think the Amish are interesting.

[Oak2004]

200. My sister in law left Islam for Catholicism and my brother

She wasn't beaten for it. She was officially "disowned", but this "disowned" did not extend as far as, for example, not still talking with her family, and visiting with them, and they with the rest of us, just as might normally be expected. Though her parents are now both gone (at a fairly young age: I guess that comes along with being a Palestinian refugee), our families still mingle, Slovak-American Catholics and Palestinian-American Muslims, side by side at family get-togethers.

Honor killings and beatings by ultra conservative religionists of virtually all stripes do occasionally occur, and they deserve condemnation for the crimes that theu are. But American Muslims, and Muslims in general, are not as a rule the stereotypical troglodytes of right wing fantasies. Get to know a few before you go about spreading bigotry.

[Quantess]

206. But it all sounds so wonderful to be a religious fundamentalist!

We get to be thankful for escaping a righteous beating. And if you are more or less a heathen, well then you got off too easy! Come back for your righteous beating in the name of God, Mohammed, the Lord, etc, (insert deity here).

[Oak2004]

209. Thankful? Why be thankful for what is the expected norm

American Muslims as a general rule don't beat apostates, any more than I was beaten when I became a Catholic apostate. In fact, any American Muslim who went further than formal disapproval (aka my sis-in-law's not really real "disowning") would be thought poorly of by their fellow Muslims -- indeed, if warranted, reported to the police. And while I don't have first hand knowledge of Islam as practiced throughout the world, most of the horror-show stories seem to emanate from just a few countries/cultures.

Hell, the Muslim couple I'm currently most in contact with is fully supportive of their transgendered teen, going so far as to pay for some of the surgeries. Is that sufficiently far from a "righteous beating" for you (given that a majority of non-Muslims in the US, religious or not, would have at least considered in passing a "righteous beating" if their teen daughter suddenly announced she was transgendered)?

I know you really really want to hate Islam, and it doesn't appear you want to let facts get in the way of the right wing generated drivel you've bought into. But please, at least give the facts a moment's consideration.

[JDPriestly]

127. Civil divorce courts are open to all in America.

Actually, I understand that Daniel Webster, the throwback who is running against Alan Grayson in Florida, opposes divorce. But he's the only high-profile person I know of who does. So if a fundamentalist Muslim or Christian woman wants to get a divorce, she has only to go down to her local courthouse and get the forms. A lot of communities have centers where people can get help in going through the process. So, Muslim women in America are free to leave their husbands and their communities just like other women.

[oldhippydude]

88. long sleeves in summer???

are they not aware that second amendment gives them the right to "bare arms"???

[deaniac21]

215. It's those amish cells that are set up world wide with big time

funding for the purpose of killing the enemies of the god Am that scare me.

[EstimatedProphet]

68. Way to completely miss the point! Congrats!

[Zoeisright]

108. Exactly. I'm ignoring the right people.

Logical reasoning skills are rare.

[AspenRose]

189. You beat me to it

The importance of what 11 Bravo was trying to convey is getting lost.

[John Q. Citizen]

85. Freedom of religion requires that us citizens ignore the crazy religious beliefs of our

neighbors in the hopes that they won't hang us for our sane beliefs.

Because they might, if we act like assholes.

[JDPriestly]

123. Catholic women wore shawls over their heads and other head coverings

in churches in many cultures not so long ago. Covering one's hair has been and still is an expression of religious devotion in many cultures. I have heard that Jewish women who are Orthodox sometimes (or maybe always) wear wigs. If you remember the days when Catholic nuns wore habits, you will know that not very long ago, they wore something akin to a burka.

I don't understand this, but I remember that, years ago, when I went with a high school friend to her synagogue, she loaned me a hat to wear. Protestants may be the exception in that I do not recall that Protestants are urged to wear shawls or hats or head coverings in church. It may be that the Amish and some very fundamentalist sects do this. It could be that Mennonites sometimes wear headcoverings.

So, don't think that the burka is such a strange thing. I'm glad I was never expected to wear one, but I can't judge this.

I do remember wearing hats and white gloves at Easter when I was younger. I really liked that. Maybe some women like wearing burkas. I wouldn't know since I have never tried it. Have you?

[amandabeech]

212. None of the major Protestant denominations require head coverings for women.

Roman Catholics do not require them any more, except in exceptional circumstances, like meeting the Pope. Certainly you remember first ladies wearing black dresses or suits and a black lace head covering when posing with the Pope.

Amish, some Mennonites and related groups require women to wear a little cap, which is often of a very lightweight material most if not all of the time. The size of the cap varies.

What DUers refer to as "Fundamentalists," like Southern Baptists, do not require women to wear a head covering at any time.

In the old days, women and girls wore hats to religious services much more often because that was the way to get dressed up, and all people dressed up for church (and other occasions) much more back then. The Easter outfit was a new dressed up spring ensemble. I'm old enough to remember wearing a head band trimmed with lace and ribbon instead of a hat. The head band look was haute couture for little girls in 1962! I only lacked the white cotton anklets with the lace trim at the top. No lace for Amanda!

[Raoul]

160. Ah, what a f**king know it all (Codeine)

8th century myths? You wanna know a REAL fucking myth? The myth of a know it all who is certain there is nothing beyond the god of scienctism which, like most gods, is false..

[Codeine]

171. "Scientism." Only on DU could a term that stupid gain so much traction. nt

[Iris]

173. Do you know how many Christian religious nuts I have to be nice to every day?

Why should this woman be any different?

[Codeine]

175. I didn't say not to be nice.

I just feel a bit sickened by the sudden DU lovefest for all things Islamic. Honestly, it's a bit insane that we're suddenly rushing to embrace a religion so anathema to Progressive values just because the right-wing fucktards have their panties in a wad over the Finacial District mosque.

Behaving as though fundamentalist religion is a beautiful thing is nutty, IMHO.

[burnsei sensei]

178. But if she believes, then she is a willing victim.

There's nothing to be done.
Even if burkas are banned, I'm sure the law will be defied.
And ultimately, even if complaints are made, the women will pay the higher price for wearing the burka.
In patriarchal religions and societies, WOMEN ALWAYS DO.

[adoraz]

184. only took the fourth post... give me a break

others have already argued with you and said most of what I was thinking, so I won't bother. maybe she is wearing it for the wrong reasons, maybe not, but don't start that BS in a topic like this. this isn't the place.

This is a fantastic story. I know a similar woman, though she can speak English very well. I see her at least once week on my campus. One of the nicest people I have ever met, hands downs. Fortunately, she always seems to be very happy.

Funny thing is, everyone on campus gets along with her very, very well. I think the problem most people have is the language barrier more than anything.

[RandomThoughts]

5. If someone wheres a Burka to honor God in their heart they do.

However many people teach people that, in my view, for their own reasons.

That was very kind of you to do.

[tavalon]

137. And that is the point here

not the tangents.

[JI7]

6. maybe they were uncomfortable because of the full burka ?

you rarely see that in America . i wonder how the same people would have responded had she worn a hijab instead.

though i'm sure many are bigots .

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Same way, I have seen it here

and I have stepped in to defend them as well.

One ugly American started screaming at a young woman wearing the Hijab... so I stepped in, and called him on his racism.

[liberalhistorian]

59. We all need to do that with every single incident

of such discrimination and hate that we witness, however seemingly small it may appear. That is the ONLY way to shut this shit down. People get away with it because others don't speak up and pretty soon more and more feel like they can treat a certain group that way with no consequences.

[miscsoc]

192. A DUer will defend the American in 5...4....3....2

prove me wrong folks

[iamjoy]

96. yes, I Posted Something About This

That I mistrust the burka, but not the hijab. I guess it has to do with being able to see the face. I don't think I would be openly hostile to a woman in a burka, but my pity and distaste may be apparent.

But I'm sure just as there are people like the OP who are more tolerant and open than me, there are also people less tolerant who would have reacted the same to the hijab.

[closeupready]

8. Something as simple as that - that's how people are going to realize

all these blowhards are outright liars.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Well done

this is reminding me more and more of the stories my dad told of Poland in the pre war years.

[Quantess]

11. Thanks for being nice to the brainwashed fundie.

[11 Bravo]

46. Actually, I just saw her as a human being. Sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative.

[TheCML]

70. Sad.

I would hate to look at the world like you. I think I see the last ounce of humanity left in this country circling the drain.

[Quantess]

107. A woman wearing a burqa is defintely a fundie.

Or at least, a victim of fundamentalist religion.

edit: wouldn't you rather look through your own or my eyes, than having to wear a stupid burka like the poor woman in the story?

[jberryhill]

118. I don't think the OP used the correct term anyway

Since the OP refers to looking her in the eyes, it sounds more like a niqab.

[Quantess]

128. Thank you for this bit of insight:

"Since the OP refers to looking her in the eyes, it sounds more like a niqab."

[EstimatedProphet]

214. Well, somebody needs to give you some insight!

[Violet_Crumble]

135. I just found out that great feminist Fred Nile is trying to ban the burqa here in Australia

His respect for women and all minorities is overwhelming in his respect and desire for equality for them!Personally I think Fred Nile is so representative of the motivation I see from some here at DU when it comes to Muslims...

btw, those who want to dictate what women can't wear are every bit as much of a fundie scumbag as those who want to dictate what women wear...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/23/2934503.htm


And here's some of Fred's other 'progressive' views...

Following the Moscow theatre hostage crisis in 2002 Nile asked whether the then state minister of police would consider banning full body coverings like those worn by the Chechen terrorists, from parliament and places of public gathering to prevent the carriage of weapons or explosive devices. On the 23rd of June 2010, Nile introduced a bill into the Legislative Council to criminalise the public wearing of any face covering which prevents the identification of the wearer,<11> including the burqa and niqab. Further discussion of the bill will not occur until September 2010.<12> The major parties have not indicated how they will vote on the bill.<13>

On 10 March 2007, Nile raised concern that Australian embassy officials posted in Islamic nations were favouring the immigration of Muslim over Christian refugees. Nile called for a moratorium on Muslim immigration to Australia: "Australians deserve a breathing space so the situation can be carefully assessed," he told an audience in North Ryde.<14>

Nile asked for the removal of the then Australian Muslim leader Sheik Taj El-Din Hilaly after the sheik placed the blame for sexual assault on the female victims.<15>

In December 2007 Nile raised concerns about the construction of a Muslim school in the Sydney suburb of Camden and was invited to attend many events opposing the school.

As a consequence of Nile's public position on Muslim immigration, he has received widespread condemnation and alleged death threats from individuals within the Islamic community.<16>

On June 22, 2010, Nile introduced an anti-burqa bill into the New South Wales Legislative Council, seeking to ban the enveloping Muslim head and body cover for women from that Australian state <17>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Nile#Political_views

[tavalon]

138. Banning is always a good way to show support

[Dorian Gray]

146. +1

Good points, Violet Crumble. Some of us seem to ally ourselves with completely reprehensible people in the name of "feminism."

[entanglement]

104. On the one hand you pretend to be "concerned" about the oppression of women like her

and on the other hand you're offended the OP was being nice to her?

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AsahinaKimi]

12. I have rarely seen the burka worn here

In San Francisco, maybe twice. Mostly see the hijab worn. We have a lot of Asian women from Malaysia here who practice Islam and of course many from the Middle East.

That was a nice gesture by the way.. very kind indeed.

[Luminous Animal]

64. The nuns at Dolores & 16th... all that is exposed is the face. Nobody gives them a 2nd look.

But people don't go out of their way to ignore them, either.

[LiberalAndProud]

13. You, know the hate mongers --

talk about Christian values all.the.time. But they miss the crux of it. They miss the lesson in the parable of the good Samaritan.


And it's like they've erased entire passages of scripture.

Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
(King James Bible)


As-Salaam-Alaikum, Bravo.

[cascadiance]

101. Of course they'll use some Beck logic rationalization...

to say that she "isn't their enemy", and therefore the bible allows them to treat her like shit!

Kudos to the OP for doing what she did! We need more of that in society. If Jesus were alive today, he would have pushed aside the rest of those who claimed to be "Christians" there and gave the OP here a blessing!

And this from an agnostic who respects the hell out of people religious or not, who show good spirits and kindness to their fellow man/woman!

[KamaAina]

14. I used to see that all the time back in Jersey City

of course, this was pre-9/11, and in a heavily Arab neighborhood, so the hate factor wasn't there -- but I kept wanting to scream, "You're in New Jersey! The governor is a woman! (at the time, Christie Todd Whitman) You don't need to wear that here!"

[Dappleganger]

15. Some people act strangely around the Amish.

They stare, grab their families to point them out as well as pull back a bit to watch them from a distance. Guess what? The same kind of behavior is quite often shown to Goths, scene kids and anyone else not fitting into the "norm."

I hope everyone is as kind to the Goths--they need lovin', too. ;)

[MineralMan]

18. You're correct. We have all of those here in the Twin Cities,

and I see the same behavior. Hijabs are more commonly seen than burkas, but both appear fairly often, especially here in Saint Paul. We have some Amish here, along with some conservative Mennonites, and they get stared at, too. Of Goths, we have many. They get a little less attention, though, it seems to me.

[Dappleganger]

24. If the Goths aren't getting enough attention...

they're doing it wrong! :evilgrin:

[Scruffy1]

61. Over here in Nordeast

A burka is pretty much an everyday sight. I have never noticed any friction between Catholics and Muslims. I suspect a lot of the crap is drummed up by the media with the help of prosperity gospel con men masquerading as preachers.

[ProleDragon]

36. I've loved me a Goth or two...

:evilgrin:

Hell, I was there at the beginning of the Goth scene when it split from punk. Goth chicks rock!

[iamthebandfanman]

53. i have a weird amish story to tell...

a couple of weekends ago i was driving into the mountains to help a friend clear some a national trail that runs through the state..
on my way to the trailhead i got behind an amish horse and buggy...

they pulled onto the shoulder to let me pass , and as i did...

a teenage girl stuck herself out the back... stuck her tounge out at me ... and then made the metal sign(devil sign) at me...

lol.

i laughed for a good solid 5 minutes.

[tavalon]

139. The disabled too

[Odin2005]

201. Yup.

[alphafemale]

158. You're right. Being a "tourist photo op" must be really annoying

In my experience most local people don't regard the Amish as anything other than "quirky neighbors."

I said "most."

I loved it when my bf and I went to Mammoth Cave Nat Park last year and they had stables for the horses of the Amish that visited.

Mammoth Cave is awesome btw. But opt for the 6 hour wild cave crawl. Not the touristy asphalt stroll.

[handmade34]

17. smiles for you

:-)

In my travels, I see every different color, dress, talk and action in the United States. Today I am in an area that is predominately wealthy and Indian. I'll be headed in a week to a community in Alabama that is predominately poor and Black. I have done this job for 5 years and have been to most every corner of the United States. All we can do sometimes is smile, help carry a bag or give a few dollars. Too many people bear the brunt of ignorance and hate. Thank you.

[Cirque du So-What]

19. A suggestion for a film project

Thanks for writing this OP. It gives me an idea for a documentary film about prejudice in America. It could be nothing more elaborate than filming 'ordinary' people's reactions to a woman in a burkha as she conducted her business in public - just everyday errands that wouldn't even raise an eyebrow when performed by anyone else.

Maybe I have unrealistic expectations, but I believe it would be beneficial to hold up a mirror to 'upstanding citizens' whose xenophobia & bigotry compel them to act like boors toward people from other cultures.

[Fumesucker]

20. It's not the person that people are reacting to..

It's the burqa.

The very same woman could go out in normal American street attire and no one would act any differently to her than they would to anyone else.

Ever heard the song "Signs" by the Five Man Electrical Band? It has a line in it that's exactly about this effect.

And the sign said long haired freaky people need not apply
So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said you look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do
So I took off my hat I said imagine that, huh, me working for you
woah!

[handmade34]

22. ignorant people are fearful

the burqa represents an unknown... we need to encourage people to communicate and learn


I shave my head and while it has become more acceptable for women to do so, I still have varied reactions from people that do not understand why a woman would have no hair (save cancer treatments)

[Fumesucker]

25. I tried shaving my head..

It's just too much trouble to do it every day, it takes a lot longer than shaving my beard and I'm not always consistent about doing that either.

Besides, I have a huge head and look like Beldar Conehead and get a strange urge to return to Remulak when I have a shaved pate.

[handmade34]

29. :-)

I have a tiny pea head and look ridiculous but I love not having hair

[Fumesucker]

37. Did you know that Sigorney Weaver's character Ellen Ripley was listed at #8

Of the top film heroes of the last 100 years?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Ripley

[tavalon]

140. I love that song!

I use what I call urban camouflage - it seems like I'm an ordinary, middle aged nurse, when I'm actually a polyamorous hippy living in a stable triad. I used to wear it on my sleeve but swimming upstream in this very provincial, frightened nation got tiring, that and I have a child now.

[handmade34]

21. trying to remember

there was a program on TV recently... kind of a candid camera... actor played a store owner who refused to serve people of color, Hispanics, Muslims, etc (actors also)... the reaction of the other customers in the store was recorded... very sad that most customers tolerated the bigotry and in many cases encouraged it

[Bluenorthwest]

33. I saw that! They refused to let 'that kind' marry, and claimed

God liked their sort better. Obama was one of the people claiming that his 'religion' meant he was 'sanctified' and others were not, and should not be given equal rights ever, no matter what. God would be mad, he says.
The show was called The McClurkin Hour featuring Ricky Warren as Trigger.

[HillWilliam]

56. Weren't we extras in that production? n/t

[handmade34]

42. found it....! What Would You do?

worth watching...

http://abcnews.go.com/WhatWouldYouDo/video/stop-muslim-discrimination-11347387

[OneGrassRoot]

23. In the end, only kindness matters...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfsS3pIDBfw

Good job. :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Desertrose]

26. Good on you.

:hug:

We are all human beings on planet Earth...how hard is it to be kind to our fellow travelers.

[tilsammans]

28. Wonderful! What you did meant so much.

:grouphug:

I'm nice to everyone, but especially so now to those who are vilified by the FoxBots.

[Aristus]

31. God bless you, 11 Bang...

You're my favorite infantryman. You did a wonderful thing there. Just for her to hear kind words from a friendly voice must have done her a world of good. You're doing the Lord's work, my friend...

[scheming daemons]

34. In Saudi Arabia, she'd be stoned for committing adultery by talking to you

[ProleDragon]

38. Bravo, 11 Bravo... and thank you.

I'm glad someone brought a little humanity to her.

It's unfortunate that so many are giving humanity a bad name by abandoning it.

[renate]

87. you're absolutely right, and welcome to DU!

:hi:

[AtomicKitten]

39. Bravo! Well done. nt

[Monique1]

45. Let her do what she wants

I was a nun at one time and wore a habit, I don't remember anyone complaining at that time.

So, I can go after Sarah because she wears mini skirts and dresses? or dresses sexually?

[BeHereNow]

43. Good on you.

I think the "brown people" of all origins in America should
file a class action law suit against Faux News.

They are guilty as charged where inciting hate is concerned.

BHN

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[newtothegame]

49. 'encountered'

They're not a fkn foreign species.

[ustilago]

79. Nothing about "encountered"...

...implies that they are.

[Skittles]

50. I see a lady like that in the supermarket where I shop

I just say hello, and she nods to me

[changed4thebetter]

51. Was she with a male member of her family?

Otherwise she could be beaten and disfigured for talking to you - I hope you didn't cause this poor woman to be punished. You should make yourself more aware of the religious customs of others before you approach them. You may have caused this poor woman a great deal of hardship just by talking to her - for real.

[Oak2004]

203. Uhhh, no

True in Saudi Arabia, perhaps. Not at all true for American Muslims (with the possible exception of an infinitesimal number -- absolute generalizations being what they are). Not true in Indonesia. Or Egypt. Or Turkey. In fact, not true anywhere you don't see some mutant form of extremism practiced.

[malaise]

52. You dear soul are a compasionate human being

Those 'morans' are promoters of hate - be afraid white people.

[hayu_lol]

55. Thanks Monique...

years ago, some of the Nun's habits were pretty far out...they were seldom picked on because of them however.

[BlueCheese]

54. That was nice of you.

I have to say, though, that when I see a woman in a burka, or hajib, my initial reaction is to think of that woman as being within the control of a system of thought that values women less than men.

Perhaps I'm wrong about this? Clearly not every religious Muslim woman wears burkas or hajibs--in some predominantly Muslim countries they'd form a small minority. It seems like the places where it's common--Saudi Arabia, Iran, wherever the Taliban is in control--also have medieval attitudes about the rights (none) of women and their place in society (the bottom).

[PerpetuallyDazed]

143. Interesting! I'd imagine many Muslim/Middle Eastern women would say the same about Westerners...

"I have to say, though, that when I see a woman in a burka, or hajib, my initial reaction is to think of that woman as being within the control of a system of thought that values women less than men."

With all of our surgical "enhancement" procedures and and fixation on what is beautiful and sexy...

[Quantess]

210. I agree with you.

[mmonk]

57. A human act in an inhuman time. Good for you.

Recommended.

PS-I've been dropping my oldest son off at NC State this week and have seen plenty of female students from the middle east but they were wearing hijabs, not burkas.

[HillWilliam]

58. Jazakallah Khairan

May G'd bless you. Now you have the only other bit I know.

I'm not so sure of a god, but I do believe if you put goodness into the world, it pays itself forward. Thanks for shining a light.

[HillWilliam]

60. While I'm on about it. . .

For those who might be interested, there's a collection being taken up to offset the costs of cleaning the rug in Al-Iman masjid in New York that the drunk idiot pissed on while yelling racist slurs. It's being collected by the Velveteen Rabbi as a goodwill gesture. I think it's a very, very cool thing.

[Diane R]

62. Bravo, Bravo.

[TheKentuckian]

63. That's how folks are supposed to treat each other, that is how we stop killing each other over

nothing to fill somebody's filthy pockets.

[abelenkpe]

65. Where are you?

I think what you did was quite kind given your description of the scene. But I'm imagining that you are somewhere where perhaps there aren't many Muslims?

[AspenRose]

190. Nope

11 Bravo and I are "neighbors" and there are many Muslims here.

[1monster]

71. My son had classes with Arab Muslim twins, a boy and a girl. At their graduation last June, the

whole family showed up in force. One of the young women, there with her husband, had on a beautiful outfit, a black under suit consisting of a black top (covering everything from her neck to the middle of her hand) black slacks, with a red and black over gown, and the usual hijab went well with the rest. It was very attractive. I pointed it out to my hsuband.

After the graduation ceremonies, we decided to go out to lunch at a favored restaurant to find that the Muslim family had been there before us and were coming out as we went in.

My husband went up to her husband and told him how beautiful his wife's outfit was.

They all just beamed with pleasure.

A kind word may turneth away wrath, but a few friendly words can build bridges across the widest rivers.

I'm glad you had the opportunity to begin building a bridge. Keep up the good work.


(It always amazes me that so many "Christians" who believe that they are persecuted for their religion are the first to pile persecution on those of other faiths and belief systems...)

[OmahaBlueDog]

73. I have this odd theory

The muslims that came here from places like Iran, Pakistan, and Egypt did so because (and this will sound nuts, I know) they didn't like the lack of freedom and opportunity in their home countries. So, they came to America for a new life and a shot at upward mobility.

[TheKentuckian]

75. You mean they aren't here to destroy our freedom and ban pork BBQ???

I'll declare! You sure got you some funny notions there!

[OmahaBlueDog]

76. Y'know there are very sucessful Kosher barbeque places in NY & LA

However, I see very few Halal BBQ joints.

I see this as an opportunity.

Back to the topic at hand...oddly, no, I think they came to make money and raise kids.

[TheKentuckian]

78. I don't eat pork but I had not imagined such a thing as Kosher BBQ, much less good.

Now you've done it. I want some brisket BAD now and its not fair I can't have any at the moment.

[OmahaBlueDog]

80. Brisket & Chicken

Seriously, Halal BBQ. Bringing two cultures together, one smoker at a time.

[TheKentuckian]

84. Hell yeah, I'm down. It would be heaven to not have to worry about the pork in stuff

Beans! Greens!!

Man o man.

[iamjoy]

98. Well, If It's Kosher

If it's Kosher, it's probably Halal too. The reverse is less likely to be true. Kosher is more restrictive about what animals may/may not be consumed. Although, if one is a stickler for the way the animal is slaughtered, Kosher definitely isn't Halal since the proper blessings would not have been said (and it wouldn't have been a Muslim doing it)

[flamingdem]

115. Sepulveda has a great one nt

[Mimosa]

113. Exactly!

That's the case for a couple of Muslim families I've known.

I think the burka is spooky and it will never become common in America.

[Faryn Balyncd]

74. Thanks for sharing a most touching story.

:kick:

[Wednesdays]

77. K&R

:kick:

[Liquorice]

83. That poor woman. I hope she wakes up and realizes her face and body aren't dirty or shameful. nt

[mckara]

86. All Our Lives Are So Precious

I hate those demagogues who peddle hate and indifference for other people.

[jennied]

89. I've witnessed the same thing at my grocery store. I can't believe the crap they have to put up with

[DesertFlower]

92. that was really nice of you. i've

never seen a woman in a burka -- only a head scarf.

i don't know how they're able to breathe.

[Frisbee]

95. I frequently go to the grocery store in the late evening...

and as often as not, will see a woman there in a burka (different women). I have always found it sad because I suspect they are going there when they assume there will be the fewest people shopping. It is ridiculous that members of our society should feel they have to try to stay out of sight, but were I in their position, I'm not so sure I'd be any different. It sickens me to see what this country is becoming, and in no small part thanks to FOX News. If the right has it's way, the melting pot will become as pure white as the driven snow.

[lightningandsnow]

100. A veil where only the eyes are showing is a Niqab, actually.

A burka has sort of a mesh covering the eyes.

Either way, good for you. :)

[jberryhill]

119. I wondered if anyone was going to mention that

It would be nice if all those here with opinions were at least conversant with the facts.

[kenny blankenship]

169. And a head-to-toe garment that covers the eyes opaquely is a 'Burlap-sack'

Which is the highest form of feminine modesty in Islamic culture - of sartorial modesty I mean. They have even more stringent means of enforcing feminine modesty and chastity that are performed upon the body itself.

[kimi]

112. Very nice of you, IMO

We live in an area that is very multi-cultural. My kids - who have all graduated from high school now - went to school with Muslim kids, including girls who wore veils (I believe they're called hijab) and so my boys are used to seeing ladies cover themselves. It's my belief that as this country evolves, hopefully people will evolve as well.

Well, a person can dream, right?

[PacerLJ35]

121. If you want something else to say...

you can always depart by telling her allah wiyak....or the more common ma'es salaama.

If you see a muslim male it's common to also say maarhabah after you say salaam aleikum, and to be extra nice you can always add in a nice sabah el'kheir (good morning) or massah el'kheir (good evening). If they tell you sabah el'kheir, you should respond sabah el'noor...it's the polite thing to say in Arabic.

So...a common greeting would go like this:

salaam aleikum

aleikum salaam (or just salaam...an abbreviated term)

maarhabah, sabah el'kheir

sabah el'noor

kaif a ah'illa (how is your family)

ku'lihum bi'kheir (they are well)

enhamdullallah

If they ever tell you shukran, you should reply afwun (you're welcome)

There is the Iraqi slang of maku'shi (which means no problem) but this is considered rude if you don't know them well

[NanceGreggs]

133. Well done, three times over ...

The act itself.

The beautiful rendering of the tale.

The ability to express the emotion of its aftermath.

Well done.

[Granny M]

134. Well done for your act of kindness.

Interesting thing I noticed where I live in Holland: We see lots of women wearing the hijab in Holland. Never saw a burka there. Until, a few years ago, France began debating about banning the scarves in schools. Then suddenly, I started to see burkas. Still not that many, but the numbers did increase.
My thinking is that when their freedom of religion is threatened, any people will become defensive and probably more fundamentalist. It will be interesting to see what happens in the US as this controversy continues.

[BlueIris]

142. I always make a special point to wave hello and smile to people in traditional

dress. It won't do much to convince that person that we're not all raging bigots, but it's something.

[WVRICK13]

144. Congratulations

You showed kindness in a unkind world. All the worlds religions subjugate women, except Wicca. How different is a burka from long skirts, little net hats, no shaving of the legs etc.? They are all symbols of male domination. I feel sorry for everyone who allows fantasy to control their lives but I will not be rude.

[Turborama]

147. K&R Thanks for sharing your story. I'm starting to starting to get weird reactions when I go out

The difference is, I'm a white male living in Indonesia. I'm paying a lot of attention to what's going on re the Islamophobia and propaganda war against Islam coming out of the States. As I mentioned http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9031686">here and went into more detail, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8976871">here.

[Obamanaut]

148. With such limited exchange of words, how could you tell she was muslim?

If one simply judges by the attire, isn't that stereotyping, or even profiling? Isn't that a bad thing?

[mrs_p]

150. this is how we bring about a peaceful world

connecting one on one. thank you for your courage!

[Scuba]

151. How does one correctly pronounce "As-Salaam-Alaikum"?

I hope to emulate your kind gesture some day.

[miscsoc]

191. It doesn't really matter, it's the thought that counts

[SalmonChantedEvening]

152. We must strive to never be agents of hate.

And yours is an example worth following.

:hug:

[blue sky at night]

153. thanks for being there.....

thanks for letting us in on it! Peace.

[wookie72]

154. Lots of people missing the point here

It was a great story about connecting with another person, and we're focusing on her clothing.

1. We have no idea why she is in the burka. One possibility that few appear to be considering is that it is a conscious act of defiance against a culture that sees her as the enemy. Perhaps by wearing the burka she *wants* to stand out and make us uncomfortable, and she was genuinely taken aback and touched by bravo's actions
2. There is a lot of pressure to "ban" the burka, which I think is a very bad idea. The way you change people's habits is not by legislating them but by engaging with them.
3. I personally see the appeal of the headscarf (not the veil). It frames the face, and it allows the hair to be something that the woman shares only with those she wants to be intimate with. Would I ever want to see it required? Of course not. But I'm not going to ever want it banned.
4. There's a double standard about Islamic forms of dress. No one would ever suggest such measures as banning, say, Hasidic women from covering their hair, or forcing Amish people into zippers. I know I'm skirting towards Godwin's Law here, but the anti-semitism in Germany included such acts as Germans going up to Hasidic men and cutting their forelocks.
5. Again, I have to reiterate my appreciation of the OP. It's a small gesture, but so was refusing to move from one's seat on the bus.

I've never encountered anyone in the burka, but I've met in my job several women who wear the headscarf, and they have been uniformly gracious and pleasant.

Live and let live. It's not that hard.

[lightningandsnow]

161. This is an awesome post.

I've started dressing more modestly recently for personal as well as religious reasons. My standards aren't that strict; for me, I'm just trying to stick to keeping my shoulders covered, not showing cleavage, wearing skirts and shorts at knee length or longer, and trying to wear skirts more often instead of wearing pants every day. But I can understand why people would want to do more than that. I like covering my head, although I don't do it all the time; sometimes, I'll wear a kerchief or snood. For a lot of people, dressing modestly, whatever that entails for them, is about a personal comfort level more than anything else.

[wookie72]

164. Part of the problem is

that as Westerners we have no idea how our own dress is dictated by the customs of the culture. If it were 1969, with my short hair and fairly drab clothing I would be considered a "square" by most. But it's how I'm most comfortable.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

159. K&R

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

163. Great way to pay it forward....nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

166. kick and recommend!! that was truly fantastic!!!

[Irishonly]

167. You are wonderful

Most of this country could learn a lot from your kindness.

[DesertDiamond]

168. Bravo to you, Bravo!

[TBF]

177. Glad you said something -

we have many Muslims in Houston so I don't really think about it when I encounter them. Your story did make me think of our drive to Florida last week though. I'm always polite in gas stations (or anywhere) and did encounter Arab clerks who were very friendly in return. I'm sure they have to put up with a lot of crap daily ...

[greenbird]

179. How do you prounouce that?

I'd like to memorize it and be able to do what you did.

[CatWoman]

181. .....

:hug:

[Kajsa]

182. Thank you for treating her with kindness

and respect. :hug:

Ignorance is a very dangerous thing.
It fuels hate.

:(

[pasto76]

183. good on you. woulda chewed the stockboys ass

sometimes parents havent taught respect of others, thats where the community needs to step in.

[dorkulon]

185. If you can see her eyes, it's not a burka.

Burkas have a mesh screen over the eyes. She was wearing a niqab. Just FYI.

A handy reference:
http://islam.about.com/od/dress/tp/clothing-glossary.htm

[bertman]

186. Your kindness is heartwarming, 11 Bravo, but I cannot find it in my

heart to honor any tradition that requires a woman to hide herself behind a veil or a burka and be subservient.

I will tolerate it reluctantly in the name of religious freedom, but never will I give that medieval religious any form of approval. Same goes for fundamentalist Christianity, Zionism, etc.

[ZombieHorde]

187. Stories like this make me wonder if religious preference is really a preference.

Is religion a matter of free will? Could she choose to not be a Muslim? I don't think I could simply choose to be a Muslim or Christian, I don't think I could choose to believe. How about you?

[miscsoc]

193. of course it's not

i am a presbyterian and will be so until i die, although on some level i am aware it's wholly irrational.

[JerseygirlCT]

188. That was kind of you nt

[penndragon69]

196. What..

you mean you didn't notice the yellow star of david, or in this case, the yellow crescent that was
sewn to her burka?
Every real American knows the truth about them......just ask rush,palin and beck.

NIcely played!

[Name removed]

198. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Odin2005]

202. KICK.

[Lucian]

204. That's kinda...weird.

Although I don't agree with people avoiding her because she's a Muslim, I just think it's weird you went up to her and said that. People around here act weird around Amish and Mennonites, but I wouldn't go up to them and say some weird thing to them like you did.

JMHO. :shrug:

[Xipe Totec]

205. I encountered a Sikh on the 'T' one day.

That's the MBTA for those outside the Boston area.

He was in full regalia and looked nervously around, surrounded by westerners.

We made eye contact, and I bowed as a courtesy.

He beamed me the biggest smile I've ever seen and bowed back.

That was the extent of our engagement, but I think it made his day.

It certainly made mine.