My mother in law - "We need to take our country back"

[SmileyRose]

I asked "From whom?"

there was a long silence.

HER - "well by the time 2012 gets here we might not have a country left."

ME (deliberately obtuse) - "I don't understand. Are we being invaded?"

HER - "They are taking over this country and we have to stop them"

ME - "they who?" (pause) "I don't understand"

another long silence.

HER - (clearly irritated) "Nevermind - I should know better than to try and talk politics with you."


***************************************************************************


this is a 74 yr old white woman who voted for Hillary in the primaries and generally does tend to vote for Democrats. She can't bring herself to admit her real fear is that brown people are getting more power. She can't make herself admit that she knows damn well Barack Obama is an American Citizen and elected fair and square - and she hates the fact a brown person has any power. And even though in her heart she knows it's bullshit - she dances around the birther mess, and implies he'll let the Taliban turn us into Muslims, and talks about the 10 Commandments in the courthouse, and the war on christmas.....

She acted the same kind of crazy when the local town school district hired a black teacher (yes they have one).

***************************************************************************

I'm telling you this because I want us to understand there are 1000 racists out there who will swear on their own Bibles they aren't racists for everyone one of the overt jerks with "Niggar" signs at Whitestock. We can talk about how far we've come all we want. I don't believe it. Not only did no one listen when they started pitching a fit about "reverse racism" but now the brown people actually won the white house. God help us all if Obama wins a second term. You ain't seen the real fit pitchin' yet............

[depakid]

1. Lester Maddox voters....

[Warpy]

2. Next time, don't let her off the hook

Tell her if she's going to make statements like that, she needs to spell it out or you're going to think it's time to go to a judge and take over her affairs because she's clearly terrified of something that doesn't exist and that means she's losing it.

OK, maybe you don't want to go quite that far with the old girl, but she needs to be challenged because Pox and talk radio and probably emails are scaring the wits out of her (literally) and it's horrible to live that way.

In a way, I'm glad my dad never was able to use the laptop I got him for more than playing solitaire. I'm glad he didn't start getting right wing spam emails. I'd hate to have seen him living his last days in terror like your MIL is.

[SmileyRose]

48. You are exactly right.

I had not thought of what they are doing to people like my Mother in law as a kind of soft "terrorism" but you are right. I needed that. Thank you.

[av8rdave]

3. It's probably an unfair bias on my part, but....

Whenever someone tells me they hate Obama and can't tell me specifically why, I just assume it's racism. Nobody will admit it, but I think that's a huge factor in many people's opinions.

No, we haven't come anywhere near as far as we like to think we have.

[murielm99]

4. Whitestock!

I love it!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Bozita]

10. +1

[Sparkly]

5. I'd love to hear an answer to that question.

FROM WHOM??

Also,

WHICH FREEDOMS??

[louis-t]

14. During the Clinton years, my relatives would say

"Clinton's takin' away our freedoms". I'd ask "Which freedoms?" They never could answer, but they knew for sure he was.

[hfojvt]

31. too bad Clinton was white

otherwise you could have been certain that they were just racists.

[Wednesdays]

55. So, hating Clinton even though he's white means you're not racist?

:shrug:

[JHB]

57. Didn't racists hate Clinton?

The core of Clinton's political opposition in Arkansas was the "old guard", (White) Citizen's Council-tied former Dixicrats.

And in '92, when the Republicans were fishing for anything they could use against Clinton, the "old guard" took their bile nation-wide with the aid of the conservative noise machine (including the now-reformed David Brock).

[ginnyinWI]

43. that's what ya gotta do--get past the slogans.

Often they don't have any other thing to say.

[IntravenousDemilo]

6. So how does your wife get along with her mother? n/m

[atreides1]

7. I understand

My wife's uncle is the same way, and he grew up in the north. I will give him credit as he's not as vehement about it as your mother in law seems to be. Beside, and when he does say anything his daughters let him have with both barrels, but they do it respectfully.

[Pirate Smile]

8. Thanks for the post. There people who still want to assume a lot of this isn't race based. Some

isn't but a lot is - especially when you look at the different perceptions based on age.

[Number23]

44. There are people running all over this site trying their DAMNDEST to pretend

that race has nothing to do with the massive outpouring of fear, panic and all around angst from certain quarters since Obama won the White House. I even see some of it here in this thread with the obligatory Clinton references.

If race was not the issue, the OP's MIL could probably have articulated quite well who the "they" is that are "taking over."

[cilla4progress]

9. Yes, BUT

don't forget Obama was elected overwhelmingly. His supporters ARE out here. We OUTNUMBER the racists! We just need to get motivated. What will it take?

[louis-t]

11. So typical. All talking points, no answers.

I love doing this. Guys I work with get beet-red and storm off saying "I hate BOTH parties." Or, "I'm not talking politics with you anymore." 'Who, what, when, where, and why' are great tools.

[murielm99]

13. My husband and one of his friends do this at the coffee shop

every morning. There is one repuke, with Palin stickers all over his truck, who will not even sit in the coffee shop any more if dh and his friend are there. He leaves. I have seen them in action. All they do is ask respectful questions. The guy sputters in fury and stalks out.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. That's what we do when we encounter teabaggers here too

They come to legislative forums and try to stir shit up. We discovered that just asking questions in a calm polite voice shuts them up. It's amazing.

At a forum last year, one of them asked a state rep why she was supporting educating 'alien' kids in our state. He was visibly angry and there were about 40 people sitting there waiting for the rep to respond. A friend of the guy asking the question was standing there with a video camera filming the rep's talk. He quickly walked up to the front of the room and put the camera in the rep's face. And she politely asked him "So are you telling me that we should not provide the BEST education we can for ALL of our kids in this state? Is that what you are implying?"

He froze. The audience turned and stared at him. The guy with the camera stepped back. Then the crowd started clapping. And the guy with the camera put it down while his angry friend turned and walked out of the room.

[Sparkly]

38. "He's tryin' to trip you up!"

As in this video:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=499571&mesg_id=499571

Simple, basic questions are REALLY tricky for them.

[Bravo Zulu]

12. The republiKKKans are gonna steal her social security!

I guess she would rather sacrifice her own best interests and live in poverty, to get rid a President that is trying to save this country after bu#h tried to destroyed it?

[DemocracyInaction]

16. Spot on

I'm 65---tell her if she wishes upon a star real, real hard, she can get a whole shit pot of Repukes elected. And, that Repukes are hell bent to get rid of Social Security and Medicare....and that when that day happens, you are sure she will be quite happy eating cat food; and not to come around you for housing, medical care, etc. because we are all going to be soooo poor that it is impossible to waste 5 minutes on somebody who is basically half in the grave anyhow. Pssst...it really pisses them off.........

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Here's a song for her

This has been my ear worm for the last 24 hours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nGw_vAnqPI

[Bozita]

18. Here's the one that keeps bouncing around in my head ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48AgMJ0TBO4

[peekaloo]

49. !

From one of my favorite albums.

[Merlot]

17. Instead of saying "from who" try "to what?" or "how far?"

Let her describe what "going back" looks like to her. Have her paint a picture for you. Ask her how far back....before women could vote? before blacks could vote? when child labor was legal?

Or, maybe save your self the headache and just say you want your country forward.

---

Agreed that there are many people out there who don't fit the overt racist bill. Many people were fine with the status quo. Then Obama comes a long and like a sharp stick in the eye, he's made them face how they really feel. Yes, the "fit pitchen" will probably increase, like chlldren throwing a major temper tantrum. Eventually the adults will get sick of them though...

I'd rather see the racism out on the open than have it hidden. It does more damage hidden. Now we know what we're dealing with.

[Steely_Dan]

20. I Remember Getting Roundly...

...criticized during the Presidential campaign when I dared imply that this country is STILL not ready for an African-American President. I wasn't the only one to suffer the slings and arrows from those who felt I was being racist. They couldn't see beyond their own passion. That's understandable.

I felt that Bush had screwed this country up so bad that it would take a remarkable person to turn the ship of state around. After the primaries, I listened carefully to Mr. Obama and was convinced that he was that person. I rejoiced that we were going to finally elect a person of color to the highest office in the land.

However, I could not shake an equally powerful feeling that our country was not ready. We were and are far too racist. Even more racist than I thought was the case at the time.

Here was my point during the primaries...

This country was so screwed up after 8 years of Bush...some of us even wondered if it was too late. The hurdles we had to overcome were unlike anything we have seen in the past. To have the additional hurdle of an African-American President in the face of the overtly racist elements in our country I felt was more than we could afford to risk. Now it turns out that our racism is for more pervasive, even in the Dem Party.

Does this make me a racist to suggest that in addition to the nearly insurmountable issues our country faced that to have to face the additional hurdle of the first AA President was a challenge that would make success beyond our reach? I certainly hope not.

All things considered...it is a wonder how President Obama has been as successful as he has.

-P

[jaysunb]

28. Excellent post

Very well said and very true.

Thank you.

[Steely_Dan]

33. A Few More Thoughts On Race...

and the Presidency.

As I recall, I also implied that Hillary's Presidency would also have caused additional hurdles to overcome from the sexist elements of our society. And who knows how large THAT group would be. It turns out that there are far racists than I think any of us anticipated. Once some them saw others begin to express this racism, they felt emboldened to speak out against the idea of a "black president." And thus it grew. The Tea Baggers I think are an essential part of this racism. The more racists that came out, the more they started to organize...protecting themselves by stating that they are NOT racist. We saw it yesterday at the Beckfest....85% of all the people that appeared on stage were minorities. Me thinks thou protest too much.

All of this is a result of underestimating the level of racism in this country.

Since watching Obama I have learned a great deal about why his campaign rhetoric does not accurately reflect the way he governs. From this board I learned that President Obama is an appeaser. And that this is an essential part of his personality. His past demonstrates that he is the kind of person who will try and find compromise as his first line of strategy. This is not something we are going to change in him. It is how he is hard-wired. It may not be exactly what we really needed in our time of nearly insurmountable hurdles...but it is what it is.

My point is the additional hurdle or being the first black President. I'm only speculating here, but I feel that President Obama had to walk a very difficult line...on eggshells so to speak. It isn't with the Left that he had to be so careful...it was with the Right. The Left didn't see a black man. They simply saw a man...a dynamic man. Unfortunately, the Right saw a black man. Obama and his administration were (are) well aware of this fact and knew that they had to counter the possible perception of the "angry black man." Is it too far a reach to believe that this added hurdle also contributed to his appeasement approach?

This is why, as much as I wanted in my soul to have a person of color or a woman as our President...to finally set aside our history of racism and sexism...it was too much to hope for. I felt this during the primaries...I tried to explain this and was rewarded with comments that I was a racist or sexist.

This is the reality of our country. It is ugly...it is something that none of us want to look at or admit to. Racism and sexism is alive and well. If you doubt it...just review what has happened over the past year.

I have criticized the President for not taking control of the message...not framing the arguments, which allowed the RW to convince the brain-dead that he is a Socialist/Marxist/Commie Pinko, etc. etc. But now, while I still feel he should have taken control of the message, I can better understand why he had to be cautious. Having said that, the RW still succeeded despite the Presidents caution.

Now, with the rise of the Tea Baggers, we have no choice but to fight. Even if the President remains conciliatory, we cannot stop the fight. If not for us, but for our grandchildren and their grandchildren.

-P

[Angry Dragon]

35. He has a white male vice-president

Why not use him to voice what is needed??
Then it would not look as of an angry
black man was getting in their face.

He would still take heat, but it would serve
a purpose.

[JoePhilly]

41. His election was never going to "set aside our history of racism and sexism".

I think that historians will note that his presidency lifted up the veil on covert racism.

After the civil right movement, racists were basically forced underground. The N-word was relegated to white only discussions. Which pisses of the true racist. They LOVED that word because it gave them POWER. They could diminish an African American with that word. Power.

But that power was taken away. And the true racists had to go underground. And they have been simmering mad ever since.

Obama winning in 2008 caused them to boil over. His victory proves that the racist position was losing serious ground. If Obama could be President, then blacks and other minorities could not only become "equal", a white person might have to actually compete with them.

I'm a white guy of the right age and look that I can walk through any right wing conservative group unnoticed. I kind of look like them. I know what they say. The words they use when no one is listening.

Saturday, they were all on their best behavior. They were told to conceal their racism for this event. They know how to do that, they conceal it all the time.

[Steely_Dan]

42. Excellent Post...makes sense. n/t

[Number23]

47. Really nice post, Joe. I'm loving this subthread.

:thumbsup:

[Number23]

45. Fantastic post. Thank you for that.

All things considered...it is a wonder how President Obama has been as successful as he has.

Perfectly said. :thumbsup:

[still_one]

21. She may not know from who, but I can tell you who, from the corporations who wrote the

HCR and Financial reform bills

If someone has a pre-existing condition today, with the new healthcare plan in order to get coverage they either have to wait 6 months without insurance, or wait until 2014. Who wrote that into the plan?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/27/preexisting-condition-ins_n_696061.html

[hfojvt]

22. so your own mother is a racist, eh?

And you want us to know that, why? Do you think if you call her a racist every day from now until the election that that will motivate her, or others, to go vote for Democrats?

Would it help if I asked YOU to read "Pebble in the Sky"? or perhaps "Player Piano"?

[Arugula Latte]

27. It's the OP's mother-in-law, not mother.

[hfojvt]

30. yes, I notice that when I re-checked. Typical in-law b.s. then

It is just like me to forget the first line by the time I finish reading the whole paragraph. Forget enough to get some detail wrong.

[Wednesdays]

56. The OP apparently has set off some alarm bells with you

nt

[LiberalFighter]

23. A few points you can try and make with her.

Even though Obama is the President he doesn't have the power all by himself. His power is limited and granted by Congress and the Constitution. And he doesn't have control of the other two branches of government. He only has control to nominate to the judicial branch and once they are appointed he has no control. He only has control to propose legislation and sign it into law only after Congress has done their job. If she is against Obama is she saying she is against the Constitution?

What difference does it make who is President as long as they do their job? If Obama should be frowned on as not being qualified for the job then shouldn't women like Hillary? Jesus, the most religious man in the world would not had been qualified to be President.

On religion with the 10 commandments. Ask her to explain why they did away with the church taxes after the Constitution? Would she support a church tax when it means it is mandatory and it only went to the state authorized church? Does she know that Jefferson, Madison, and a few other signers (founders) pushed Virginia to stop enacting such a requirement? If such requirement were in existence today the commandments would be based on the religion in power for a particular state. If she moved to a state that had a different religion she would have to abide with that state's 10 commandments. And don't forget that prior to the Constitution there was at least one state (colony) that ran people out if they didn't practice their religion.

[Vinca]

24. When you quiz the Beckerheads about specifics, they really haven't

got a clue what the cult actually stands for. If your MIL starts muttering about government spending, yada yada yada, make sure to ask when she plans to send back her Medicare card.

[Imajika]

25. Yeah, they can rarely say "from whom"...

I have this epidemic in my family too. It's mostly military "law and order" family loaded with far right zealots.

They say this thing all the time: "we need to take our country back".

I keep asking who they intend to take it back from, but they usually don't have an answer.

To be fair, "take our country back" is something both right and left say in the context of an election season or advocating significant change. It's posted countless times right on DU, but at least people here can describe who we need to take it back from - mostly the incredibly powerful corporate interests.

The funny thing is, if you dig deep enough, some of them actually agree with us. Many of these people also see CEO's making 3000 times as much as the average worker to be insane and immoral, they also know there is this top 1-2% that is making money betting against the country, they have the concept that many of the people at the top of the ladder are getting rich producing nothing and got there mostly from who they know rather than what they know. Some of these people know there is this wealthy class that are just looting the country, but they just are confused about where to direct their anger.

Here is a suggestion that works for me. When you ask "from whom" and they can't answer, supply some people we should be taking it back from for them. If you pick some common corporate foes, you may find you can get some of these people to agree with you. Once that door of agreement is open, you've got an actual conversation going on - they just might be open to hearing you out. Just gotta take it slow, start with areas of agreement, let them think these were their own ideas, make sure to make a point of agreeing with them when they say anything true.

Remember, usually you have to let people think they've come to their own conclusions - so just fill in some of the blanks for them and often they will come around.

[Maeve]

53. Beautiful post! "Coffee Party" material

Returning reason to the public forum...

That said, I was talking to an elderly (but feisty) aunt of mine last week. She said she can't talk to a lot of folks at the senior center because they hate Obama so much. "And you know they won't give you the real reason they hate him. It's because he's black." And my Republican-since-Eisenhower-but-voted-for-Obama-after-seeing-him-on-Oprah mother nodded in agreement..

[Wednesdays]

58. "Just gotta take it slow, start with areas of agreement..."

Exactly. If she has Internet, you can send her links to articles from huffingtonpost, dailykos, etc. Just be sure the articles are in areas of agreement, as Imajika mentioned.

[activa8tr]

26. I sure hope Obama wins a second term, there's really no one else

other than a Dem who is actually qualified.

I feel for you if you live in a place with a mother-in-law like that close by, and only ONE BLACK TEACHER in your school system... must be really a strange place, unless you're in Alaska, then I'd understand maybe only one black teacher.

What was Glenn's dog whistle call yesterday... heard only by people like your mother-in-law? "We are emerging from the dark"...what did THAT MEAN!!!

[Raschel]

29. You're so right. I know many people who swear they aren't racist who are just like your MIL.

[Liberal_in_LA]

32. A recent article reporting that brown folks would be majority in California by xxx year

received lots of posts like this "that's too bad", "That's sad", each post received lots of 'thumbs ups" - And no expanation was necessary. Brown / black = bad. <shrug>

[edbermac]

34. Back to this?

Yep, the good old days...

[HarveyDarkey]

36. Is your MIL native american?

If not,she has no argument it's not "her" country.

[Odin2005]

37. That makes it pretty obvious that she means "fron the N***er".

[spanone]

39. wrong forum

[pokerfan]

40. Ah yes, the 'gotcha' questions...

i.e., the next logical question

[madokie]

46. You are so correct

especially this lines here "You ain't seen the real fit pitchin' yet............

[TBF]

50. lol - one of the FOX news talking points ... the other is the mosque

We were at the relatives 2 weeks ago & of course one of the uncles starts in "how can they build a mosque there - that can't be legal". As the resident socialist I only pipe up when one of them says something like "Obama is a communist" and completely go over why he is not anywhere close to that. This one I left to my husband the lawyer. He loves constitutional law and pounced on them. "Of course it's legal" and then went into exactly which amendments protect it. "Well, I'm not going to argue with a lawyer" the uncle says and they move on to something else.

Normally we keep quiet to keep the peace, but when they are really factually off we correct them (which is more often then we'd like).

[Orsino]

51. Yes, this is the key question: from whom?

Most of the h8ters are just smart enough to know that the real and very racist answer would make them look small and weak, so they falter at this question. Perhaps some of them never have spoken their answers out loud, and hem and haw when asked to respond verbally.

Thing is, we do need to take our country back, but the organizers of these events know that attention must be focused away from Big Money.

[AspenRose]

52. You are brave for telling the truth no one wants to acknowledge

That there are bigots who vote Democratic.

[Wednesdays]

54. She's just the kind of voter the GOP is counting on in November

And you're right, there are multitudes out there who won't admit to being racist, but who have the same attitude. However, we were able to turn them back in 2008, let's hope we can do it again.

[Canuckistanian]

59. Keep asking her

And say that until you get an answer, you'll assume she knows NOTHING about politics and is just parroting something she saw on TV.

[ensho]

60. agree!

nt