The faces of teachers fired in Chicago to be replaced with TFA, other novices.

[madfloridian]

This is from Substance News which follows the Chicago school system, which I have called Arne Duncan's past contributions to education. Read the attributes and resume's of some of these teachers from an article there today.

Substance News



From the Substance News site a photo by Jim Vail.

Sara White, Sunny Neater-DuBow, and Daniel Lopez are three of the hundreds of teachers who have recently been terminated by Ron Huberman. Although the terminations are done by local school principals, Huberman and his senior staff are encouraging principals to assert their powers and allowing principals to "clean house" for political reasons without regard to seniority, tenure, or teacher credentials. Substance photo by Jim Vail.

The mainstream media are praising Chicago Schools Chief Ron Huberman for firing the "worst" teachers in the system. The fact is, he is continuing to terminate the best. Sunny Neater-DuBow received her layoff notice two weeks ago at the Multicultural Arts School (MAS) in Little Village. She and seven of her colleagues were layed off before the new school year, when it is estimated that more than 1,500 teachers will be terminated.

..."Neater's accomplishments make her sound like one of those star performers the Board should be proud of. She has taught for seven years in CPS, two at MAS, and earned her tenure after completing her National Board Certification, which is the highest certification a teacher can earn in the country. She has been recognized by outside foundations who have awarded her education grants and was tapped to sit on the education advisory committee at the Museum of Contemporary Art. Her focus was on community based art projects "honoring the voices of each of our own students" and collaborated with the School of the Art Institute, where her students have art shows.

Neater's sudden termination comes after Huberman's decision a couple of months ago to fire more than 30 CPS mentor teachers, many of whom were also National Board certified and received the highest evaluation ratings.

And how is he planning to replace them?

The Board of Ed plans to hire 200 Teach for America teachers who are fresh out of college, despite the Chicago Teachers Union demanding that all layed-off teachers be called back to their jobs after the funding has been restored, the CTU reported. Hiring cheaper labor makes sense to the business people who run the schools, but not to the children whose lives were touched by these outstanding teachers abruptly cut out of their lives.

Many believe this is a way to cut costs for schools. Get rid of teachers with higher salaries....whether they are highly-rated with good evaluations or not.

Replace them with cheaper teachers recruited from firms like TFA.

On top of failing to make a dent in poverty, Teach for America actually detracts from social justice by hurting real teachers. Teach for America students take low, entrance-level pay while also receiving a government subsidy for their salary in the form of Americorps stipends. Schools lay off teachers and then hire Teach for America teachers to fill positions that real teachers would otherwise be filling. Teach for America teachers are undercutting the wage needs of real teachers and causing them to be laid off as a result.

Imagine this: a well-off college student takes a subsidized teaching position at an impossibly low wage and displaces actual teachers who might already be struggling to get by — all for social justice!

For anyone who has any concern for labor rights, this is extremely abusive. Not undercutting wage demands of often unionized workers is rule number one of how to be a serious social justice advocate.

Trouble is that the school systems are paying to get that company and others like it to recruit the teachers, when they could recruit and hire them for free locally. The thought processes in the new education reforms boggle my mind. A school board member in St. Louis schools said it well:

Peter Downs, president of the elected school board, summarizes TFA’s role in one word: “privatization.” He says that the mayor, not the district, first invited TFA to St. Louis, in line with reforms such as for-profit charters and the privatization of services in curriculum development, teacher recruitment, maintenance, and food service. As part of its contract with TFA, the district pays $2,000 a year to TFA for each of its recruits. (The elected board has no power because the state took over the St. Louis schools; the mayoral appointee to the new three-person board is a former regional staff person for Teach for America.)

It's getting harder and harder to accept the arrogance with which Arne Duncan has approached his job as education secretary. He moved quickly to empower his friends in the business world, and these hirings and lay offs are happening because he enabled them.

He once said there was no opposition to his plans. That was not true. That indicated to me even more the bubble-like nature of life in DC.

They are going to destroy public education and good teachers in the futile quest for "reform."

And it is being allowed by Democrats because it is not Bush doing it.

The mess left behind in Chicago is Arne's past. What he is doing to our country's schools is his future legacy and sadly ours as well.

[pleah]

1. K&R

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Wow. They are firing NBC teachers??

And replacing them with 5 week summer trainees.

That's unbelievable.

NBC is extremely difficult. How stupid this is!

Well, we can all sit back and watch CPS drop back into last place now.

[n2doc]

6. Oh, I'm sure test scores will go through the roof!

Magic realism in action....

[madfloridian]

12. Yes, they are doing that around the country now.

I have read several things about it.

[izquierdista]

3. I suppose the editors will be "layed" off as well

Just think of how competitive the U.S. will be with interns, recent grads, and H-1Bs doing all the work! How else are we to get our wage costs down to the Chinese peasant level?

The more I hear about teachers, Social Security, and Afghanistan, the more I wish Kucinich was President.

[Dinger]

4. Same Here (nt)

[izquierdista]

We've got to get some bumper stickers...

WWDD?
And make Blue Dogs, DLCers, card folders, appeasers, and corporatists worry what the right answer is.

[another saigon]

131. me too

:{

[Kalyke]

133. Good catch...

I sometimes wonder, though, if spelling deficiencies are brought on by texting more than poor educational opportunities, though.

[Roland99]

134. +infinity

[valerief]

136. Damn, I wished he was president from the get-go! nt

[Fearless]

150. K&R!

[dsc]

5. an honest God damn shame

I don't know who in their right mind would go into teaching today. The one and only thing teaching had going for it, an ability to find and keep a job in virtually any economy is pretty much gone. Even labors of love have to be rewarded to some degree in order for their practitioners to live.

[Imajika]

7. Arne Duncan and the President are doing fine...

They see the disaster that some of our school systems have become (particularly urban schools), and are making sure the education status quo ends. Everything we've done in the past educationwise is going to change. What you are seeing now is just the beginning.

If your argument is to simply echo/support the teachers unions (who represent teachers NOT kids), lash out at local/state governments for scaling back education spending, scream and flail about everytime a new approach is suggested that changes the old way of doing things, moan and complain that Duncan and Obama expect actual results and a meritocracy rather than just the old seniority system, etc, you are guaranteeing yourself almost no place at the table as these reforms will be pushed right over top of you. People are pretty much sick of the same old status quo "only more money can solve the problem" argument.

There will be less funding available going forward, and too often the results even with a lot of education spending has been horrific. Urban schools across the country have simply largely failed - and a consensus seems to be building that more money will not cure what is ailing our schools. Even if you think it would, there is less and less money available anyway.

Heck, if school systems even try to institute programs to fire lousy teachers it seems the education status-quo folks are out whining. There always seems to be some excuse as to why we can't get rid of the bad/ineffective teachers just like we'd terminate bad employees at jobs throughout the private sector.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Imajika]

14. No, that isn't a "bash" at all...

Teachers unions do a pretty good job at representing teachers. They are not a "kids" union, they are a "teachers" union. They will do what every other union tries to get for their members including more pay, a better work environment, more job security, more protections, etc.

However, what is good for teachers is not necessarily what is good for the kids. How people somehow don't understand this I will never know.

[madfloridian]

15. Oh yeh, only the reformers know what is good for students.

They know best. Fire the experienced teachers making good salaries, hire recruits with 5 weeks training.

And call anyone who gripes about it a "whiner"

Got it.

[Imajika]

27. See, again, your focus is the teachers salaries and benefits...

...I'm vastly more concerned about the results. The point of the whole exercise is providing a good education to the kids, not maintaining teachers salaries and benefits.

The stagnant seniority/tenure based system does not seem to be dynamic, efficient or enough of a motivator to push teachers to achieve better results. Some jobs, agencies or companies can get by with a static, inflexible workforce, but I do not think the education system is one of those places.

The results are what matter here. If recruits with 5 weeks of training can reproduce or exceed what the current experienced teachers can do, then I have no problem with it. To me, educating the kids just takes a massive priority over teachers pay, benefit packages, etc.

Many of the ideas "reformers" have will probably fail, some will be horrible flops, but some will succeed. At least they are willing to look for and try various new solutions. The education status quo people are basically fighting to retain the current system - not much different than any bureaucracy resisting change.

Again, what matters here are the kids. They are the priority.

[madfloridian]

29. I agree. Only Arne is for kids.

Teachers don't like them, they only want money. Money money money. But we have a savior in the reform movement. They will put the kids first.

[Diane R]

31. I strongly agree with Imajika. Teachers, their tenure and salary should NOT be the concern.

[YvonneCa]

43. I don't. It is absolutely possible to fix education for the kids...

...without trashing and disrespecting the very people who have dedicated their lives to children for years. THAT is wrong, it won't work, and it will end up HURTING President Obama.

This is beyond sad.

[Dappleganger]

111. Well said!

I am sick of well-seasoned, caring teachers who are being turned out on the street in favor of cheap, inexperienced grads who have NO INTENTION of staying with the school system but using teaching as a stepping stone to something else.

[Doremus]

51. ::crickets:: The sounds heard when it is suggested to

Geitner and his Wall St. buds that salaries should NOT be the concern.



::...followed soon by the din of loud guffaws.::

:rofl:

[HankyDubs]

130. What?

If you want good teachers, you need to be willing to pay for good teachers. If you aren't willing to pay for good teachers, you won't get good teachers. Do you see how that works?

[Frisbee]

166. And then we will be one more steps towards...

privatizing all schools. And how ANYONE thinks that is in the childrens best interest in beyond me.

[Catshrink]

41. You don't think salaries matter?

Do you think a teacher can afford to live on the salaries we're paid? Many of my colleagues have second jobs that cuts down on their time to do their lesson plans, grade, etc. but given the choice, paying the rent is kind of important, don't you think?

If you think salaries and benefits aren't important, you live in a utopian la la land that makes any kind of meaningful discussion with you futile.

They are. Salary matters. We are professionals - tell a doctor or lawyer or accountant that their fees don't matter.

Another teacher bashing, union hating, uninformed, willfully ignoramous. Got it.

[Fearless]

151. K&R!

[Dinger]

155. +Infinity

[nessa]

184. Salaries do matter...

but the consumers of lawyers, accountants and doctors services choose to use them. They are not assigned to them based on where they live. This ability to choose makes those professionals accountable. Those professionals don't have unions like the teachers unions. Bad lawyers, accountants and doctors can't stay in business if no one chooses to use their services.

[Confusious]

49. I don't agree either

You're doing the same thing that the politicians are doing.

Laying all the blame on the teachers.

Were are the parents? Where is the government fixing up these dilapidated schools? No lets not blame them, because that would be to hard, and won't get me votes. If I actually spend more on education, my friends won't get their war, or their big tax cut.

Let's help the republicans destroy public education and the teachers union. Lets return to the 19th century.

You want better scores? provide jobs for the parents. repair the old schools. buy modern equipment. clean up the violence in the neighborhoods. Give the kids free lunches. Have counselors to help the families. Have actual good jobs waiting on the other side, not walmart.

I know, i know, to hard. It's the teachers fault. lets go with that.

[Dappleganger]

112. All great points. nt

[Plucketeer]

168. You've got it exactly!

More or less, there's two parents to every kid. Now multiply that times the 35 to 40 kids my wife has in her classroom each period. She sees these "crowds" for 45 minutes each day. There's NO sense of responsibility amongst the kids - no notion of consequences for actions (or INactions to be closer to the truth)- and she's supposed to turn out a steady flow of silk purses. Right.
But now think back to that horde of kids she has flow thru her room every day. With that in mind, figure where more votes could come from - the parents or the overladed faculty?

And that 45 minutes she has to impart knowledge every day? Figure 10 minutes of that trying to keep the peace and contend with batroom requests, nurse requests, time(s) needed to stop and remind some idiot that it's not appropriate to send text messages while she's lecturing, then ulitimately confiscate the phone when the kid persists and do up the necessary paperwork to document the confiscation and see the item to the office - writing MORE paperwork to log the offense as she's expected to.
Her job would be a breeze if a classroom full of obedient and respectful kids came in in timely fashion, set down, kept their mouths shut and their heads buried in the lessons presented til the next bell rings. I don't know HOW she goes there every day and keeps her cool thru all the ass-hole kids snarky remarks and pratical tricks to throw a stick in the spokes.
She has a LOT more Fs than As, but that's because there no sense of pride or support from home. Last open house night, SEVEN parents bothered to come by! And wouldn't you know it, they were parents of the kids that were doing well in class. Imagine that!

By my standards, Arne needs to have the AN dropped off the end of his name, and replaced by an E. :dunce:

[Confusious]

180. It's just too fucking sad how this country is going

All the wrong decisions are being made. It just seems to get worse every year of my life.

Don't get me wrong, some good ones have been made, but when it comes to the important stuff, education, economy, war, all the wrong ones are being made to appease crazy people who couldn't give two shits about us peasants.

If this keeps up, we will be nothing more then peasants to a monied oligarchy.

[madrchsod]

76. the kids? that`s not the priority of duncan,obama,and the corporations

if you think any of this reform is going to educate children you are sadly mistaken.

[Kalun D]

94. You're posts FUC*ING SUCK

who's side are you on?

""The point of the whole exercise is providing a good education to the kids, not maintaining teachers salaries and benefits.""

in a fu*king pigs eye. This is about CUTTING COSTS. This is about DUMBING DOWN. Replacing competent teachers with CHEAP rookies.

What in the hell is wrong with a living wage?

what in the hell do you have against competent people earning a living wage?

WHY ARE YOU ON THE SIDE OF THE GOD DA*N FUC*ING GREED PIG CORPORATIONS THAT ARE RUNNING THIS COUNTRY INTO THE FUC*ING DITCH?

[elehhhhna]

167. if it's only a 2 year commitment, they get no pension $

cheap cheap cheap

[girl gone mad]

106. The results in Chicago speak for themselves..

and those results aren't saying anything nice about Arne Duncan.

[zenj8]

125. Wow. You clearly don't have a clue about what actually goes on in schools.

You make it sound like experienced teachers never try hard, never improve. That is an absolute lie. You make it sound like all the newbies that are being brought in would "help" or "reform" education. They will still face the same problems of student enui, poor nutrition, poor parental support, and emotional problems and they will lack any experience in dealing with these things. This "reform" is just a whitewash to bring in a teaching cadre of cheap teachers and dumb down the profession and ultimately the students.

[Fearless]

146. Do you have any actual FACTS or DATA to support your CLAIMS?

[Dream Girl]

72. Why should they get to keep their jobs? I don't have an

expectation that I will get to keep may job even a month from now, particularly if I'm not performing. You seem to think teachers have some kind of entitlement to permanent employment. I say bullshit.

[Catshrink]

73. Define performing.

What is a performing teacher? How can you determine in a month if a teacher is worth keeping or what kind of job tht teacher is doing?

I am so sick of non-educators paying experts on education.

[Diane R]

101. Strongly agree.

[girl gone mad]

107. So because your job sucks..

everyone else should suffer, too?

What a country!

[Fearless]

149. The problem is that teachers are being fired for conditions out of their control.

How would you like to be fired simply because they can hire someone who makes half what you do?

[LibDemAlways]

153. The rush to lay off experienced people and replace them with

inexperienced trainees is a disturbing trend in many sectors. My husband, a computer engineer, was laid off earlier this year. He attended a job fair sponsored by a large corporation and was told point blank by a recruiter that the company intended to hire 200 new college grads to replace senior workers who were getting the ax.

How the hell companies and schools intend to get the job done while staffed by people who lack experience is beyond me. The race to the bottom continues.

[Fearless]

154. Yes it does indeed.

[YvonneCa]

156. We need a new way to explain what is happening. Everyone seems...

...to think this is just about getting rid of poorly performing teachers. If that were true, I'd be for it. But the truth is this is just the 'spin' and the excuse that allows states and districts to fix their budgets.

No one would go for "Let's save money in education by getting out from under the HUGE COSTS (in both salary and benefits) for our dedicated, most experienced teachers."

I have two MAJOR problems with what they are doing:

1. Democrats, President Obama, our students AND many excellent teachers will all be hurt by this. It is wrong on so many levels.

2. The newly constituted schools will not necessarily be better with inexperienced people...and we can't afford to fail again on education reform.

[rpannier]

165. Another boat sinker at DU

Color me not surprised

[Kalun D]

178. READ

Why don't you read the OP. These are teachers that are performing at award winning levels.

they are being laid off so they can replace them with cheap rookies. It's about money, not performance. It's about privatization and corporate profit. It's not about producing smarter kids and it hasn't been for a long time. The PTB can't stand people that are educated because they would wake up to the screwing they are getting and rise up and revolt.

[Kalun D]

97. And What's Good For GREED PIG Corporations

IS DAMN SURE GUARANTEED NOT GOOD FOR KIDS.

[Fearless]

128. +1000

[madfloridian]

10. "seems the education status-quo folks are out whining."

Wow, excellent. Your post contained so many reformer words that I am really impressed.

The word "whining" is used today to put down anyone who stands up for their rights.

Excellent job of compiling talking points.

[Imajika]

23. Thanks....I guess..

I don't know the official talking points, but I also used "scream", "flail about" and "moan and complain".

"The word 'whining' is used today to put down anyone who stands up for their rights."

Ahh, see, well I guess that is the primary difference between the education status-quo folks and the "reformers". While I'd like to see teachers get as fair a shake as possible, the point of the whole education system is to succeed at teaching the kids. Failing schools should be closed or entirely restaffed. Teachers who show poor results should be fired. Why is that so complicated? I'm actually open to all variety of ideas that could improve our education system, but it is very clear that the same old, tired "we need more money" argument isn't an option and has not worked very efficiently anyway.

Providing jobs and benefits to teachers is not the goal here, educating the children is. If we could get better results hiring manual laborers at 8 bucks an hour I'd be for it.

[madfloridian]

26. Well, that's just what I said, too.

that only the reformers understand that. They know if you fire National Board Certified teachers and hire those with 5 weeks training....that you are only thinking about the children.

Yep.

[Diane R]

32. " Providing jobs and benefits to teachers is not the goal here, educating the children is." Bravo.

[Catshrink]

40. If you think teachers' jobs and benefits aren't important in education

you are sadly mistaken. You of all people should know better.

[YvonneCa]

45. Tiring, really...

[YvonneCa]

44. "If we could get better results hiring manual laborers at 8 bucks an hour I'd be for it."...

...but we can't. And that's the problem in a nutshell. By the time the President figures that out...we will have wasted yet ANOTHER opportunity to get education right.

[Catshrink]

50. H1B's will be next.

[Fearless]

145. Maybe finding out WHY a school is failing is a better idea than just firing everyone???

I mean, why nuke a fruit fly?

[bettyellen]

175. "Why is that so complicated? " are you fucking serious?

[Fearless]

143. + A Million!

[msongs]

13. do you support "firing" deadbeat and criminal students whose main goal is to wreck classes? nt

[Imajika]

30. Actually, yes...

..I would remove those "criminal" and "disruptive" students from the normal classrooms. Many/most may drop out anyway, so rather than let them disrupt the other kids from learning, I am absolutely fine with ejecting them.

Sad as it is, we already know we can't save every kid. Any child that is destroying the learning atmosphere for the other kids will just have to be removed from normal classrooms.

[MichiganVote]

52. Oh now...you've missed the boat. The Arne and Barack education carny show

guarantees that teachers alone are going to save these youth or else. Not administrators at the national, state or local level--teachers. Not curriculum directors--teachers. We're going to dump little Miss highly qualified Kindergarten teacher because the kid voluntarily dropped out of high school.

That's the point of all of this reform. Blast and blame teachers. Give lousy school boards and ineffective superintendents the excuse they need to fire the qualified and hire the disqualified. A cheaper cut of education that will save millions--for the benefit of the very administrators who make the rules.

In case you haven't noticed, the entire education dept. of the US is somehow exempt from the equation called failure.

[riderinthestorm]

57. How would you remove them? Honestly, there is a protocol for that and it's not easy

for a reason. It's best if kids are in school. Schools don't LIKE or WANT to "eject" kids from school: they recognize that these are the ones who need the lifeline of school the most. They need food, a place to go to each day, a purpose, counseling services, perhaps remedial teaching to jumpstart their learning if they are dyslexic or some way learning disabled.....

So in your mind, you'd just let these kids drop out? No fighting FOR them, ever?

I know you can't save every child but every child has individual learning needs. That's what great, experienced teachers DO - they find and save virtually all of them that can be saved and taught.

You appear to want to turn these kids over to minimum wage, virtual peer-babysitters - and when these TFA kids 'fail" at reaching the hardest students, then well, shrug, let them go. I dunno about you but that seems like an even bigger recipe for societal disaster....

We MUST get every (able bodied and able minded) child to at least graduate high school for all our sakes. Can you at least recognize THAT basic fact? And if its difficult for teachers with many years of experience, how the fucks sake do you think a virtual peer is gonna accomplish this?

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. But our job is to save every kid

Any teacher who doesn't believe she can reach every student doesn't belong in the classroom.

We can't just fire kids. They all have a right to an education, especially the ones who disrupt.

[orleans]

103. YEAH! SCREW THOSE DISRUPTORS & CRIMINALS!!!

who the hell do we think they are anyway? KIDS?




oh wait.....



WHERE THE HELL DO THOSE DISRUPTORS & CRIMINALS THINK THEY ARE?

in a country that guarantees everyone the right to a free education???? HA!



oh wait.....


now i understand why you posted those other comments. because you posted crap like this.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. You know who else refers to 'status quo'?

[TBF]

20. Children will not benefit from completely inexperienced teachers

being thrown in at the lowest wage possible. Of course currently the only criteria seems to be "high test scores" so the young college grads will only be "teaching" test prep. While those of us who can afford it move our children to private schools. This country is migrating to 3rd world status and there will be little to distinguish it from Mexico (amongst others). Educate only the wealthiest and the rest just enough to put them to work for little to no pay.

Lovely plan.

[Bluebear]

33. 'scream and flail about, moan & complain, whining' - what an uncivil person you are. nt

[sulphurdunn]

35. Zieg Heil Mein Furher!

Tell me exactly what a "bad teacher" is? How do you spot one? They look exactly like good teachers. After we "terminate" these untermensch and replace them with "pure" (cheap and green) teachers,shouldn't we make examples of them for the benefit of the new teacher youth corps? You really need to wake up. The same people who are taking over all things public, for profit, are the same people responsible for the lousy social conditions that created the lousy schools they plan to save for their own victims. Geeze!

[Imajika]

37. The nazi card?

Are you serious? So soon? It usually takes a long thread for Godwin's law to kick into effect.

[Catshrink]

39. If the shoe fits....

BTW, how do you recognize a poor teacher? You think there's a magic formula? A one-size-fits-all definition? Please share the benefit of your vast expertise in this area with us. Oh right.

:rofl:

[sulphurdunn]

170. The Nazi card? Absolutely.

Have you ever read Mein Kampf? If not, you really ought to read the chapters on propaganda, particularly the part about the "big lie". Godwin's Law is comic bullshit. It's was meant as a humorous observation on the tendency of people to always refer to their opponents as ultimately evil, not as an axiom for defining the trends of political movements that fit the fascist mold. Education reform in this country definitely fits that mold. Having said that, I do not wish to imply that you are a Nazi, and I apologize for any offense given my comments.

[chervilant]

38. hmm...

Judging solely from your post, you are woefully uninformed about the travails du jour of public education.

First of all, the majority of veteran teachers I've met during my tenure in an accelerated certification program are dedicated to the personal AND educational welfares of their students. This dedication is essential in an otherwise thankless career, where most are underpaid and overworked.

Most of the teachers with whom I've worked have been innovative and creative in their efforts to engage their students and nurture in them a lifelong love of learning. These teachers spend their own money and devote their OWN personal time to developing lesson plans that make their subject matter relevant and engaging.

Teachers are subject to rigorous training, random walk-throughs by administrators, regular and thorough assessments, AND the intense scrutiny of their students, as well as those parents who are integrally involved in their childrens' educations. If there are 'bad' teachers in schools, despite these multiple safeguards, they're employed because some administrator has given them a position, and allows them to continue to teach. Why aren't you whinging about these administrators?

Bashing and blaming 'bad' teachers has become a popular theme song for the politicians and corporatists who view the current problems with public education as a golden opportunity to realize their own agendas. AND, if you honestly think Arne and his ilk are all about our children, you are sadly mistaken.

We live in exponential times, Imajika. Our system of public education must respond to this reality in order to insure that our children receive the best education possible. Blaming and shaming teachers is NOT the way to accomplish this goal.

BTW, it is both condescending and misleading to characterize those of us who decry firing 'lousy teachers' as "education status-quo folks." We know a red herring when we see one.

[MadHound]

46. Wow, I don't know where to even begin with you

You exhibit a complete and utter lack of knowledge about teachers, public education, education funding, pedagogy, and frankly any sort of comprehension of the problems facing education.

Instead, your knowledge base simply consists of the propaganda disseminated by the anti-tax, anti-public education forces set loose in this country, first by Bush and then by this administration.

Your attitude of accepting mediocrity in our education system because "there is less and less money available anyway" is an apt example of this sort of mentality. We have been trying to do education on the cheap, and frankly that simply doesn't work. If you look at the top two educational systems in the world, Japan and Finland, you will see that they spend the money to insure that each and every school is fully funded, and furthermore teachers are treated, and paid, like doctors are in this country. If you want the best and brightest to go into teaching, you have to pay for it. Few top students, with options across the board, will choose education because it simply doesn't pay.

The only reason our education system worked so well back in the days everybody pines for is because we were able to draw from a captive labor force, namely women who had limited career options. That is no longer the case.

Furthermore, over the years and across the country, the criteria for passing a school bond has changed. Now, rather than a simple majority of voters being able to pass school funding initiatives, it requires a super majority, usually sixty to sixty seven percent. Thus we see the undemocratic spectacle of a minority of the constituency able to control what happens in our schools. That's not right, that's not democratic.

Your stunning ignorance on this topic is only matched by your disrespectful attitude towards the profession of teaching and education in general. You are part of the problem, certainly not part of the solution. I would suggest that you follow Abraham Lincoln's advice, "Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

[inna]

152. +1000. thank you. nt

[Kalun D]

90. Did You Even Read The Post?

It doesn't look like it.

This isn't about firing teachers that are incompetent.

This is about firing competent Union teachers that are making decent pay and replacing them with rookies.

The polar opposite of what your post reads.

It's Union busting plain and simple. The race to the bottom and you're obfuscating/apologizing for it.

What the heck is someone like you even doing on DU? You're supporting the corporatocracy.

[roxiejules]

92. Actually, a lot of bad private sector employees don't get fired....

they don't have a union protecting them as you have suggested is the problem with teachers, they have a buddy system instead. (i.e. good old boys club, etc.) And that buddy system is very effective in keeping some of the worst people in jobs.

This argument is always used when talking about teachers, but I wonder why people think it works so well in the private sector? Office politics are common everywhere.

[Dappleganger]

110. One thing I'm sick of...

are the anti-union, anti-public education funding posts wrapped up in the guise of "reform". It makes this liberal want to :puke:

[Angry Dragon]

124. Are there bad teachers ........Yes

Are there good teachers losing their job ..........Yes

What you are seeing is education being transfered to corporations. Is this good for the kids??
A person with 5 weeks training is going to out-preform a teacher with years of service?? Could, but highly unlikely

I have asked this question before in the OPs on education ......... How much should a teacher make in your world??
Are they as important as a basketball player, any professional athlete??

I call it the dumbing down of American youth......

[Hissyspit]

140. Where are the mass firings of administrators?

School boards have more to do with the failure of our systems than do the teachers. Blame the workers, though. Same old, same old.

It's crap.

[Fearless]

147. Yeah segregating students into charter and public schools... That's surely the CHANGE I wanted.

:headbang:

[fascisthunter]

160. no he isn't... he's reinventing the wheel and while doing so

screwing education in this country with a privatized system that will cost us tax payers even more. The private sector is syphoning money that should be channeled towards maintaining and improving a system we already have in place.

[whathehell]

8. Wow. I'm a Chicagoan and this is ugly!....I wonder

how President Obama would have liked having his girls taught by TFA teachers?...Not an issue for him of course, since they will attend only private schools, just as he did.

Geez...Way to go to "thank" all the teachers unions for their support of his presidency!

[madfloridian]

11. Wow. It did not take long for someone to use the word "whiner".

The reformers are getting much quicker with the comebacks.

[TBF]

21. It must be the comeback of choice this week. nt

[ibegurpard]

88. noticing more pushback on these kind of threads

I think a lot of people are starting to realize what they're actually trying to do to education and the administration does NOT want that.
It needs to be stopped.
They are trying to privatize public education.

[Celebration]

16. Teach for America teachers

I mean, it is honorable what they are doing, but the intent should not be to take the place of tenured teachers. Some of them may be okay, but my daughter had one at their school, but she was not a regular teacher there. My daughter said it was like having another student, whose needs had to be met. In other words, she was no help at all, and they didn't even trust her to substitute.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. I've taught with several. It's sad. They are woefully underprepared.

It's cruel to both the kids and the TFAers to put these recruits into classrooms.

[Jakes Progress]

34. If they wanted to be teachers

they could become teachers. I wonder how many on DU think that someone with a few weeks training could do a better job than they do. Is there a plumber or electrician or engineer or doctor who thinks that their years of training and experience don't make them better at their jobs?

People seem to suspend logic and reflection when it comes to schools.

[Pooka Fey]

17. K&R

[TBF]

22. K&R nt

[whoneedstickets]

24. If a story seems too crazy to be true, it probably isn't...

At least as it is presented by the OP. Reading the full story at the first link suggest this is far from simply replacing some great teachers with TFA for cost savings. It seems to have a lot to do with local politics, minority groups demands on the school board, parent organizations etc. Reading between the lines suggests some serious dysfunction in this institution that makes this firing and the TFA angle symptomatic of bigger underlying problems. Scapegoating TFA on this seems to be the OPs agenda.

[Catshrink]

25. bullshit

[madfloridian]

28. "Scapegoating TFA on this seems to be the OPs agenda."

You forgot the "whining" part.

[MichiganVote]

54. True there are systemic problems. But for teachers in districts the TFA verdict is in.

And so far its a big fat zero. Most of these people have never even taught as substitutes. That's highly qualified????

[Catshrink]

55. Of course it is...

anyone can teach, don't you know that?

[MichiganVote]

56. God I couldn't. So Arne's gonna nab me isn't he? Shit.

[Catshrink]

58. You're toast...practice this

do you want fries with that?

[MichiganVote]

59. LOL!

[whoneedstickets]

64. No, not everyone can teach, even those with training and tenure.

To be a great teacher, like a great anything, you need training and talent and enthusiasm and commitment. I'm sure the TFA kids lack the first. I have no doubt that there are some credentialed faculty that lack one or more of the other 3. Tell me. What level of endowment in each of the four do you need to be a good teacher?

BTW I am Ph.D holding, national-award-winning (for teaching), tenured college-level educator who has never taken an Ed studies class. I have no formal training in education. I'm self taught. Learned on the job in grad school. Had some mentoring as a teaching assistant. Though published in two education journals, by your standards I'm inadequate to enter a public school -- that's laughable.

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. Do you believe a 5 week summer course is adequate?

You're an award winner. Would you hire a teacher who has only 5 weeks of training?

[whoneedstickets]

68. I had NO weeks of formal training, zip. none.

When I started my tenure track job. Four years later I won that national award. I guess it all depends what you start with. I have had several of my students go to TFA. One was an absolutely brilliant Rhodes Scholarship regional finalist. That guy could probably do more with 5 weeks of training than I could in 5 years. He turned down an Ivy law school to go. I would hire him in a heartbeat -- faster than I would some lower tier state-school ed studies grad with a year of apprenticeship and a certificate. Being really bright, can make up for a lot of other weaknesses. All the TFA students I have known have had that quality.


edit: typos

[madfloridian]

69. lol

I was just a regular teacher and I am bright also.

Lots of bright people are teachers.

:eyes:

SO....we have a national award winner among us, do we?

[whoneedstickets]

75. Absolutely, Like many I benefited from some bright teachers..

..but not all of them were that smart. I genuinely doubt that what made the great ones great had much to do with formal training in pedagogy. Usually it was personality, enthusiasm for the subject, intelligence, connection with the students etc. I don't ever recall thinking "gosh that was a well designed assignment, clearly he's read Bloom's taxonomy!"

Anyway, as long as TFA recruits from the tops of the classes of the nation's better colleges I'm confident those graduates will do more good than harm in a classroom. I'm sorry they intimidate the teacher's unions so much.

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. You can be blinded by your confidence for as long as you wish

I've actually seen these bright college graduates in action in classrooms. I've worked with one who knew how to manage her classroom. One. The rest ranged from so-so to downright pathetic. But yes, they were all very smart.

[madfloridian]

83. I bow to your superior knowledge and intellect. I bow to superior TFA recruits.

Gee, we are so lucky after all.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

144. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. And the majority of the ones I know have also been brilliant

But a 4.0 in a different academic field doesn't teach you a thing about classroom management. I would also bet that even an award winning college professor with no training in pedagogy would struggle with classroom management in a room with 35 8th graders. Our 4.0 Ivy League Science degree TFA intern had her cell phone stolen three times last year. That 4.0 didn't help her in the common sense department. I told her to buy clothes with pockets or get a holster for her phone. Our TFA Math teacher was accused twice of sexual molestation by two 7th graders. His 4.0 didn't help him figure out how to deal with that at all. He asked a veteran teacher for advice and ended up quitting teaching after the mother of one of the accusers threatened to sue him. And he was a decent Math teacher.

Being really bright doesn't do a damn thing to help you learn how to keep 35 kids in their seats and on task. And classroom management in an urban classroom full of minority kids who literally live on the streets is a challenge I am sure a college professor like yourself has never had to deal with.

[whoneedstickets]

80. Oh, but get that ed studies training and classroom management is a breeze right?

Are you saying that credentialed teachers start day 1 with classroom command? I seriously doubt that. I suspect that like every new teacher they struggle to find what works for them.

Frankly, given the hostility toward TFA i see among teachers it's no wonder these kids fail. The point of the program was to try to take some of the best and brightest and turn them on to the joy of teaching as a career (instead of working to land that wall street internship). This was to be accomplished with a boot-camp training session and on-the-job mentoring. But if all they get is "don't steal my job" hostility from the union stewards that explains a lot. There is turf to be protected here. That certificate is a barrier to entry that increases market value , better guard it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. Credentialed teachers start day one with a student teaching experience behind them.

I had a full semester of student teaching and another two semesters of what they call practicum now. And dozens of hours in pedagogy and child development. So yes, I was green but on day one back in 1980 I was prepared. I had a lot more tricks in my bag than they give TFA kids.

These kids are literally thrown to the wolves and guess who gets to clean up after them? Guess who gets to do two jobs while being paid for one? I can't count the number of times I've been in the middle of a lesson with my students fully engaged and the TFA intern either sends a note or strolls in, often in tears, needing help. She doesn't ask the principal or the TFA people who hired her, she asks her co-workers. That's me and the other veterans who are being pushed out by the TFAers.

I've had many student teachers and I have been a mentor to new and beginning teachers for years. I love helping teachers. I've often thought I would enjoy teaching at the university level in an education program. But to be asked to participate in a sham of a program where the equivalent of Peace Corps volunteers who are unlikely to remain in the profession are being hired to yes, replace the expensive veterans, is just beyond insulting.

I'll gladly work with an intern who has a goal of becoming a lifelong educator. But my kids deserve better than the Peace Corps TFA crew who are just looking for something to add to their law school application while bumping seasoned veterans to the curb.

[whoneedstickets]

87. Its too bad the teaching establishment has this..

.."why should we babysit the TFA'ers while they pad their resumes" attitude because the flip side of TFA was that, even if they were only transient teachers, the quality of the TFA volunteers would ensure that many would become future leaders, office holders, policy makers, corporate or foundation executives. Having had their teaching experience they would come to value education and respect the difficult job of educators. Instead they seem to be getting a far different life lesson. I wonder if will foster much respect and empathy? Mine has diminished already.

[knitter4democracy]

93. That's because you already had your mind made up and didn't read.

At least, you didn't read carefully what she posted.

So, instead of having TFA kids be parapros or teaching assistants (which makes far more sense), you want them teaching your children with no teaching experience and merely a few weeks of training?

Look, I was salutatorian of my college class, and that wasn't because I was some weak ed. major. I knew that I wanted to teach, though, so I took the classes I needed to and jumped through the hoops while pursuing the coursework that interested me. I can assure you that being the smartest kid in the room in college isn't a guarantor of success when you're the teacher up front. I needed those practicum hours and that student teaching semester. I needed to learn how to handle a student throwing a desk at me, how to handle students writing suicide notes for class assignments, how to deal with my fellow teachers and principals, and how to balance my teaching load and my home life. I learned that in college, not on the job.

TFA was also designed in hopes some would stay. Hardly any do. It's hard not to think little of people who do it for the resume and not for the love of the job.

[proud2BlibKansan]

104. So you would be willing to train someone to do YOUR job,

knowing that you had paid tuition to learn what you are teaching them, also knowing that their purpose for being hired is to replace you because they are cheaper?

Don't be intellectually dishonest by answering yes.

[Dappleganger]

114. Just think how an experienced teacher with a master's degree

in education feels, to train TFA's to take over their job. I know who'd I would MUCH rather teach my kids!

[madfloridian]

174. The quality of TFAers?? They are not better than the rest of us.

I am tired of the pretense that they are elite and special. They are taking teachers' jobs away.

Other teachers often have to babysit them, because they are not always properly trained.

[whoneedstickets]

177. Yeah, generally they are...

..sorry to break that to you.

[w4rma]

95. Bet he won't teach for long. Not at a non-union TFA salary. Or maybe teachers will get trapped into

a salary that won't pay for a family.

Because that's really why they are hiring TFA. They aren't looking for better teachers, they are looking for cheaper ones.

[whoneedstickets]

100. Actually, he met his wife in TFA

They were teaching in one of the poorest rural areas of the south. Both took their teaching certificates and went abroad to teach at a school in a VERY poor developing country for four years. They had a one room apartment with electricity that was on only 6 hours a day. When they returned to the US both continued as educators. One is in grad school now I think. He didn't do it for the money.

[Dappleganger]

115. The ultimate outsourcing...

all under the guise of "education reform."

[Catshrink]

70. Didn't think I needed the sarcasm smilie.

[MichiganVote]

74. well then that's easily rectified. Substitute teach for a class of 1st graders for a year

And then get back to us. Since you seem to feel confident, go for the gusto. Apply at an inner city school post.

We await your assessment.

[LWolf]

186. Do you think that teaching adults who choose to go to college,

and pay for the privilege to enter your class, is anything like teaching K-12?

[madfloridian]

36. It's really challenging to support public education and teachers these days.

It takes courage and stamina to post about it. Especially here.



:)

[Catshrink]

42. Doesn't take much to bring out the RW bullshit does it?

I'm not sure whether we should bother to inform and educate or just pat them on the head and tell them sorry your 3rd grade teacher pissed in your corn flakes. Either is futile.

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. WHEATIES!!

NOT Corn Flakes.

Sheesh. Do I need to give you a power point on this?

[Catshrink]

71. Oops, my bad.

I don't eat either - Raisin Bran for me. Nature's broom.

[YvonneCa]

47. I think more teachers would share their...

....outrage if they didn't think it would jeopardize their employment. As a retiree, I never would have spoken out against my district as an employee.

[Dappleganger]

117. When teachers around here dare to speak up...

they are met with "Well there are plenty of others who will work for less standing in line behind you!"

The same exact treatment is given to police officers, firemen, EMT workers, bus drivers and other public servants. Same old tea party memes.

[MadHound]

48. Hey there, I'm with you,

And there are lots of others around.

Thanks for all the good work you do, and we will all keep up the fight.

[Doremus]

53. But please keep doing so.

I've bookmarked each of your threads on this subject and send links to my friends/relatives/acquaintances.

Just yesterday I had a customer in the shop who mentioned she was a public school teacher. She hadn't heard of any of this. She has now. :thumbsup:

Thanks for taking the time to research and write such informative posts.

[MichiganVote]

60. You make a difference mad. Keep up the excellent work.

[roxiejules]

63. Hang in there, madfloridian

Apparently people don't realize the billionaires are dismantling our public schools - just like Social Security.

http://www.indypendent.org/2010/01/29/faces-of-school-reform/

http://www.indypendent.org/2010/01/29/bloombergs-12-step-method/

http://www.allbusiness.com/government/elections-politics-campaigns/13732189-1.html

[Fire1]

67. I commend your efforts, mad! I couldn't do it. I can

barely stand to read this shit. It's disgusting and depressing to think of all the time, money and effort we spent in upgrading and sharpening our skills in higher academia, only to have people with no expertise in the field whatsoever, pull the rug out. It's just tragic.

[madfloridian]

84. I am wondering if I can do it anymore. The insults toward teachers break my heart.

[roxiejules]

89. Ignore the insults

only someone with lack of grace would do that.

[Dappleganger]

118. It's even worse

when it comes from your own family.

We. should. know. better.

[Starry Messenger]

119. I think I have every neoliberal on DU on ignore.

They aren't here to be persuaded. Heck, they are probably just on their break from writing for "Education Next" or "Gadfly", on DU just to rehearse.

[Name removed]

148. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[inna]

159. All you do is ridiculous insults. Shame on you.

Everybody can see through that.

:thumbsdown:

[Joe Fields]

172. I challenge you to back up that ridiculous claim.

Paint with a broadbrush much? Anyway, who are you?

[proud2BlibKansan]

173. Interesting

There are two such posts by you in this very thread but both have been deleted.

[Dappleganger]

116. As long as I have skin in the game...

I will support our public education!

[fascisthunter]

162. you do well....

[JackDragna]

61. I've mentored TFA teachers..

..their intentions are good, but they're just not ready. What message is being sent to the public about the skill and dedication required to teach, and the value of teaching as a job in general, if we let the completely green do it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. And that was not the goal of TFA when it was established

This angers me.

[Jefferson23]

81. Arnie Duncan, the weapon of mass destruction of public education and fair labor practices.

Obama's Betrayal of Public Education? Arne Duncan and the Corporate Model of Schooling
Wednesday 17 December 2008

by: Henry A. Giroux and Kenneth Saltman, t r u t h o u t | Perspective

http://www.truth-out.org/121708R


I have seen no evidence to counter this Op from 2008, none.

[madfloridian]

82. That was a great article by Giroux and Saltman in 2008

And very true.

[Jefferson23]

99. Absolutely. Nearly two years later how sad is that to hear Obama

make a statement like this:

The president dismissed educators' fears that their evaluations would be based on standardized test scores alone.

"Everybody thinks that's unfair. It is unfair," Obama said. "But that's not what Race to the Top is about. What Race to the Top says is, there's nothing wrong with testing - we just need better tests ..."

His remarks reflect a newfound perception that recent progress in New York schools has been mostly a mirage, and that the public trusted in tests that were flawed.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/justin-snider/rage-against-the-machine_b_675516.html


We JUST need better tests!!!! I'm glad that's all setlled.

[Jakes Progress]

122. I'm glad arne isn't a DU member.

Then I couldn't call him a right-wing shithead. I would be in violation to point out that this neo-con in dempublican clothing is a dung studded dropping from karl rove's ass. The fact that my description is true not withstanding, you can't say things like that about other DU members. But, because our president isn't a DU member, I can also point out that his is a slow-witted idiot to have backed this ronnie reagan dream maker. He is willingly gullible and desirous of a place a the table with the robber barons and corporate elite.

[Jefferson23]

179. I believe Obama is entitled to embrace an idea I reject. What angers

and disappoints me the most is the deceitful approach that has been taken by this administration in order to advance these policies.

There exists no honest conversation about what they're representing, and the MSM affords them a buffer from accountability. We will
see Diane Ravitch and Arne Duncan have a public debate, hell, even a public conversation? Never happen!


Same goes for health care, financial reform and look at Social Security. The commission, and he appoints Simpson for crying out loud, will
not release their recommendations until after the November elections, tells me Obama knows exactly who will be less than thrilled
with that information. He is willing to gamble on his base, and I believe he does so with confidence....the "who else are they going to
vote for" strategy will likely work for him.


Frustrating as hell.

[Jakes Progress]

183. There are wrong ideas.

I agree with you analysis of the deceit and abandonment you so well describe. However, I don't believe a president is entitled to do the wrong thing just because it came into his head. In this case, it is not just an idea, but a bad one, one that isn't his but comes from the neo con manifesto. No Democratic president is entitled to implement a plan like that.

[LWolf]

187. +1

[madfloridian]

91. Only 13% of CTU teachers may be rehired. Not good.

From Alexander Russo.

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/district-299/2010/08/jobs-just-13-percent-of-laid-off-teachers-rehired-says-union.html

"Jobs: Just 13 Percent Of Laid Off Teachers Rehired, Says Union"

"CTU says that only 13 percent of teachers may return to classrooms, based on the waves of layoffs so far, despite CPS promises earlier this week to "rescind the layoffs" of high school teachers laid off due to class size increases (remember those?) that were then no longer necessary because of the edujobs money. The union says that it has data showing 658 regular track school firings from earlier this week, with only 167 of the 1322 teachers fired, or 13%, getting their jobs back. The union also notes (as have many of you) that going down to 31 per class is an increase from the contracted 28 despite what CPS says. Click the chart to see it full-sized. Click below for the full release.

CPS Firings Target Highly Qualified Tenured Teachers:

Only 13% May Return to the Classroom.

Schools Brace for Loss of Teacher Leadership"

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Danger Mouse]

98. Thanks God we're getting rid of those horibly expensive GOOD teachers!

Now we can have better, cheaper teachers! Cheaper is better, right?

...

Sometimes this whole issue makes me so angry I feel like steam will shoot from my ears. Mr. Obama, I expected better of you.

[Fearless]

129. +1

[fascisthunter]

163. bingo

[Common Sense Party]

102. Ouch: "But everyone layed off at MAS is not that teacher."

Misspelling the News About Public Schools For 30 Years. Thanks, Substance!

"collatoral damage"

Ugh.

[DailyGrind51]

105. CTU could have prevented this by declining thier 4% raise!

Superintendent Ron Huberman informed CTU that the CPS budget was insufficient to cover their contracted 4% raise, saying that declining their raise was the only way CPS could preserve all the jobs, preventing lay-offs. CTU chose to take their raise, thinking that Huberman was bluffing. He wasn't!

[Catshrink]

108. Goddamn those teachers expecting to be paid for their work

I think they should work for free! The smiling faces of the chidren they teach should be enough reward. They should take the bigger class sizes and added responsibilities and additional work due to the extra students in stride and get down on their knees and thank God they have a job!

[Starry Messenger]

113. Free?

We should have to *pay* money to someone to do this. :sarcasm: That food and shelter thing is so over-rated.

[DailyGrind51]

171. Actually, CPS teachers don't do too badly in the salary department!

Here is salary information from Chicago Public Schools website:

Chicago Public Schools recognizes the value of our teachers to our children and our system. Therefore, we offer a competitive salary as compared to other Illinois districts. The following are the starting Teacher Salaries effective July 1, 2009 through June 30, 2010:


Starting Salary (Bachelor's Degree) Starting Salary (Master's Degree)
School Year -- 40 Weeks/193 days School Year -- 40 Weeks/193 days
$48,631 $52,000


CPS Starting Salary Ranges* (School Year -- 40 Weeks/193 days):

$48,631 - $53,894 (B.A.) (Lane 1, Step 1 – Lane 1, Step 3)
$52,000 - $57,262 (M.A.) (Lane 2, Step 1 – Lane 2, Step 3)
$53,684 - $58,946 (M.A. +15) (Lane 3, Step 1 – Lane 3, Step 3)
$55,368 - $60,631 (M.A. +30) (Lane 4, Step 1 – Lane 4, Step 3)
$57,052 - $62,315 (M.A. +45) (Lane 5, Step 1 – Lane 5, Step 3)
$58,737 - $64,000 (Ph.D./Ed.D.) (Lane 6, Step 1 – Lane 6, Step 3)

http://www.cps-humanresources.org/careers/salary.htm

They are hardly being forced to "work for free"!

[proud2BlibKansan]

176. The ones who lost their jobs to TFA interns are doing very badly in the salary dept.

[madfloridian]

126. Wow those bad teachers declining to give up a raise. I betcha that's why..

they got busted. They should be ashamed not to give Huberman his way.

[Wednesdays]

109. K&R

:kick:

[LWolf]

120. Wow.

This one brought out the teacher haters and union haters in strong force. I'm glad there are still some Democrats, and DUers, who support things like unions, labor standards, and PUBLIC education.

It's appalling to see how many Democrats, and DUers, do not.

[madfloridian]

127. I expect the attacks, but they still stun me. Busting teachers unions

is not going to be hard at all.

[LWolf]

182. Not all change is for the better.

It's a new world, and old paradigms are falling away. Even though I've had a couple of decades to get used to it, watching the Democratic Party's shift STILL shocks me. I love change, when it's change for the better. I'm fine with evolving, when we're evolving in a good direction.

The evolution we're living through now is not positive, imo.

[fascisthunter]

164. it's why I come here seldom now

I see lots of stealth right leaning corporate agendas here. Business before people... sickening actually.

[Jakes Progress]

169. Hypocrites.

If mccain hired newt gingrich for his ed secretary and they tried this shit, DU would be screaming murder and the whole Democratic party would be up in arms. But Obama is doing it so it is okay even though it is exactly the kind of thing that mccain and gingrich would want.

republicans don't hold a patent on hypocrisy. Much of DU should be ashamed.

[LWolf]

181. Agreed. nt

[NuttyFluffers]

185. meh, not too surprising. been leaning that way since greater media awareness of DU

the tent is too big and the magnifying glass has been turned onto this site, just like others that attract attention. you never thought we were such small potatoes that RW money and propaganda would ignore us (nor sic its sycophantic minions upon us), did you?

do not be appalled, it's just the counter-scream of power when truth speaks to it. carry on, because some talented people of DU are obviously doing something right to make them mad.

[bread_and_roses]

121. this is all part of crushing the last bastion of organized labor - teachers and public sector

and the teacher and union bashing evident on this thread - on a "progressive' site, no less - words fail me.

How amazing that somehow public education worked for probably everyone on this thread.

There are surely problems with our educational system, but at least part of them arise from the gradual diminishing of teachers to robot status. It's a wonder to me that any have the dedication to stay with the profession.

Much of the rest of our problems arise from our vastly unequal society, the insufficient funding for schools in poorer areas, the third-worldification of our inner cities and rural areas, the general level of violence in US society, the drug war and our love for our guns. None of which can be "blamed" on teachers.

As for the current Admin and general stance of the Dems, think about this - here in NY State the two largest unions - teachers and public workers - have declined to support the D nominee for Gov because of his union-busting rhetoric.

"Hard choices" - code words for crush workers and unions.

Well, the busters are well on their way to success - it will be interesting to see how you all like it.

[LWolf]

188. +1

[dotymed]

123. Our government has proven

time after time, that they do NOT want well educated constituents.
That is why they "teach to the test."
Heaven forbid that an individual has the mental acuity to question authority or the "system."
It has been over 30 years since Raygun had the FAIRNESS DOCTRINE dismantled. That doctrine was one of a very few restrictions against pure propaganda from our "news" sources.
Education has been going the same way. Innovative thinkers are a danger to the status quo. So are (already underpaid) tenured (proven) teachers who try to actually educate our children. THE TEST...thats all they need to know.
Fascism is here and has been for quite a while. Whether it strengthens its grasp is (and always has been) in the hands of our citizens.
The less they (the students) are educated and taught to think and question, the easier it is for the current Fascist government to retain control.

[laughingliberal]

132. K & R Thanks for letting us know about this, madflo. nt

[AllTooEasy]

135. Senority and Tenure don't mean jack.

Are you good? That's all that matters. McCain tried that BS on Obama in '08, and thankfully not enough idiots bought it.

I went to Washington DC public and private schools. The private school teachers were generally far superior. I'm not counting test scores, because that's a function of parenting, enviroment, and previous teachers. I'm grading on:

1) knowledge of course
2) control of classroom
3) motivation of students
4) ability to capture attention
5) effort, going above and beyond normal duties for the best interest of the student

Private school teahers were compensated less and were generally superior in all categories. Some of the public school teachers were able to keep their jobs ONLY because of senority. That has to stop!!!

Keep the good ones, young or old. Good riddence to the rest.

[Diane R]

161. I agree.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

137. One issue that never seems to come up

is the amount of cheating on standardized tests that I have personally witnessed and heard about from other teachers. One of my good friends from years back,a kindergarten teacher, was asked to procter a higher grade level testing room -- 2nd or 3rd as I recall. She observed the teacher reviewing test booklets as kids finished and came to her desk. Over and over, she would tap a question with a wrong answer until the kid pointed to the right one. Not a word passed, but I guess her class made remarkable gains that year. One classroom with 20 kids increasing several correct answers would definitely impact the school's total API. It's all about pressure.

[4_TN_TITANS]

138. As with all occupations

there is no substitute for experience in teaching.

[Stuart G]

139. K and R

[BrklynLiberal]

141. Firing experienced teachers for those that will get less pay?

Brilliant! Just brilliant... following in the footsteps of their corporate owners.

[SoCalDem]

142. Our nation's kids have always been a part of a continuing "experiment"

Every time something "new & different" comes along, the powers-that-be in education jump on the bandwagon & many times the kids suffer. Every kid gets only ONE chance at an education, and years wasted, can never be "done over".:(

There are many kids who are resiliant and who succeed, no matter what, but there are also millions of kids who get left in the dust every year:(

[Dinger]

157. Kick

[activa8tr]

158. I think it's nothing but disgusting union busting to fire one teacher for no cause and..

to hire a cheaper teacher to fill the same exact job.

I wonder why this isn't illegal, and can't be stopped in court.

I am ignorant about all this. (Even tho I am a former now retired teacher)

Something smells about this ...really stinks.

[Smarmie Doofus]

189. Too late to R.... here's a little K.