"Spice" - the Marijuana substitute. The great experiment?

[USArmyParatrooper]

In case you're unfamiliar with Spice, here's a little background.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spice_%28drug%29

Synthetic cannabis

Synthetic cannabis is an herbal and chemical product which mimics the effects of cannabis. It is best known by the brand names K2 and Spice. When synthetic cannabis products first went on sale it was thought that they achieved an effect through a mixture of legal herbs. Laboratory analysis in 2008 showed this was not the case and that they in fact it contained synthetic cannabinoids which act on the body in a similar way to cannabinoids naturally found in cannabis, such as THC. Synthetic cannabinoids, including cannabicyclohexanol, JWH-018, JWH-073, and HU-210, are used in an attempt to avoid the laws which make cannabis illegal, making synthetic cannabis a designer drug. It has been sold under various brand names, online, in head shops and at some gas stations. It is marketed as an incense or "herbal smoking blend", but the products are usually smoked by users. Although synthetic cannabis does not produce positive results in drug tests for cannabis, it is possible to detect its metabolites in human urine. The synthetic cannabinoids contained in synthetic cannabis products have been made illegal in many European countries, but remain legal under federal law in the USA and Canada. Several states have made it illegal under state law.

Without a doubt Spice is a mind altering drug just as marijuana and cocaine. But like alcohol it is currently legal, for now at least. There has been some talk in the military about spice and they have swiftly outlawed it, although they currently cannot test for it. From what I've heard it's available at many smoke shops who sell it as "incense." I've also heard it's very expensive and yes, it's taxed.

Strangely this has remained quiet in the mainstream media and among politicians in Washington. Is it possible they're quietly looking the other way as sort of an experiment for legalizing marijuana? I predict that if the Republicans take over Congress they're going to use this as the latest threat to "family values" and they're going to spear head a campaign to ban it.

So what affect do you think spice is going to have on the marijuana debate, if any? Do you believe spice will eventually be banned?

[derby378]

1. It's already being outlawed or restricted in parts of America

Dallas just outlawed K2, Spice, and similar synthetic cannabinoids earlier this month. I was one of the few who spoke out against the new law at the City Council meeting, and I don't even smoke.

[USArmyParatrooper]

2. Man, that didn't take long.

What's behind this great fear of marijuana? It's completely irrational.

[derby378]

3. Here, a handful of determined municipal and state legislators...

...who are doing a lot of arm-twisting to bring their fellow lawmakers in line. And besides, it's to "protect the children."

I don't want K2 or salvia being sold to anyone under 21. But our City Council insisted adults would simply resell them to kids, anyway, so we are not to be trusted.

[Artie Bucco]

8. I hated that "Protect the Children" so many of them touted

Drug dealers got into a rolling shoot out about a mile away from my house.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/crime/stories/082710dmnetgroveshoot.958f25a4.html

School wasn't in session but I am surprised no one mentioned the gas station was about a two blocks from a Middle School.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

4. Front page of today's News & Observer in Raleigh, NC...

College crowd smokes 'spice' that imitates pot

Huffman developed the substance while looking for new pharmaceutical products similar to tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, the active ingredient in marijuana. The J, W, and H in the substance's name are Huffman's initials. The "018" acknowledges that the compound was the 18th cannabinoid that the lab developed. (Cannabinoid refers to the organic chemical substances in cannabis, or marijuana.)

....

Huffman described the effects of the substance he developed as "considerably more potent" than marijuana. He warned that the product increases users' heart rate and blood pressure and has unpredictable effects on one's mood.

So far, there has been no research to determine the long-term effects of smoking K2.

....

But last month a New York Times blog fielded comments from readers who reported experiencing seizures, paranoia and heart problems after smoking the fake weed. The blog writer, Malcolm Gay, stated that the comments "are likely representative of the over 500 reports made to poison control centers across the country this year."

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/08/29/653430/college-crowd-smokes-spice-that.html

Fake weed makes me nervous (until I know more); legalize the real thing!

[rocktivity]

5. You mean Dune WASN'T fiction?

:wow:
rocktivity

[asdjrocky]

6. Honestly, as mind altering as marijuana or cocaine?

Not so much, and the fact that you put cannabis and cocaine in the same category is suspect to say the least.

I've tried the stuff and it's about the same as smoking weak shake, not worth the money at all. The people that do buy it use it as a very poor substitute for cannabis because their job has a bigoted policy of policing what people do in their time off.

[USArmyParatrooper]

9. I didn't say "as mind altering as"

I said it's a mind altering substance just as marijuana and cocaine are also mind altering substances. In other words it's a legal drug the same as alcohol.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. From what I've read, that shit is way worse for you than actual pot.

It's not a question of 'will it be banned'- the question is, when will we finally end our idiotic, expensive, and useless attempt at marijuana prohibition?

[sofa king]

10. Has anyone actually tried it?

A guy in line ahead of me at the gas station asked about it, and the clerk furtively produced it from behind the counter, looking for all the world like he was doing something wrong. He said it was "like incense." It was like twenty bucks for a gram for the stuff, too.

As far as "passing it on to the children," please! Every potsmoker in America knows that the place to reliably score the best and cheapest weed is any high school, just after class.

[jmowreader]

11. Actually, they CAN currently test for it

All they had to do was program the machine to recognize it, which they've done.

I don't know about YOU guys, but I think they should legalize weed (once we have a sobriety test, not a "you might be stoned because you smoked some weed sometime in the last month" test so Arpaio can't fill his tent jail with innocent people) and ban this. My spidey sense says this shit is just a bad idea...I don't know WHY, but it's got to be bad for you somehow in ways that real cannabis is not.

[USArmyParatrooper]

12. Not according to a guy in my unit who just came back from UPL class

He's our unit UPL (Unit Prevention Leader) and it's his job to collect samples and process them.

[sofa king]

14. You mean the $20 million machine that costs $1000 a test?

I'm not really sure I even want to say this, but in the real world, few employers outside of governments can even afford to test employees for THC. But they all lie and say they can.

When I fact-checked an article a friend of mine wrote on drug testing, we discovered that by far the most popular "drug test" in use was actually the http://alcoholism.about.com/od/work/a/etg.htm">EtG test, which only tests for alcohol and cannot distinguish between whiskey drank that morning and a hand-sanitizer used in a public bathroom the night before. Lowe's and Wal Mart both attempt to sell this as a "drug test" to potential employees.

What "drug testing" is really about is a) intimidating actual drug users from continuing the hiring process; b) weeding out the alcoholics, who are by far the most numerous and problematic drug-using employees; c) instilling in the mind of the employee the falsehood that an employee's actions outside of the workplace are knowable by the employer through an inexpensive test, which is total bullshit.

The testing process, and interrogative tactics, are actually used to elicit confessions from stupid employees, which is the only truly reliable and cheap way to catch potsmokers and coerce them into quitting, so unemployment doesn't have to be paid. Just say "no," over and over, and never admit to such activity to fellow employees.

Even if a real test is used, it's almost certainly too expensive to test everyone at your workplace, so a random (or suspected) sample of employees is taken instead. An alarming percentage of real tests still turn out to be false negatives, and a much smaller percentage are false positives, which are a potential liability to an employer. The testing companies are corrupt, too. It's much easier to send back a printout that says "negative" than it does to actually test a sample sent from god-knows-where.

My friend's research also suggested that employers who suspect employees of being potsmokers are much more likely to take a urine sample, not test it, and then later confront the potsmokers with imaginary results (again, back to the confession). So stick to your guns and attempt to force your employer to blow that $1000 on an actual test, even if you know you're guilty. At worst, you'll lose your job working for assholes; more likely they'll back right off and never mess with you again.

[AnnieBW]

13. Does it turn your eyes blue?

Paging Paul Atreides...

[sudopod]

15. His opinion doesn't count.

He's a Muslin!