Arne says Chicago did not publish names and scores. But praised L.A. for doing it.

[madfloridian]

A little bit of a flip flop, a little waffling there.

Arne Duncan: I feel your pain.

He says he feels the pain of teachers in Los Angeles.

The sickest part of Duncan's speech, the part that is bound to breed the most cynicism, was about the L.A. Times recent publishing the names and pictures of district teachers with their supposed individual, value-added quotient attached. Duncan was the first to openly laud the publication.

Now he says: "I appreciate how painful this may be for these L.A. teachers, and I also appreciate the fact that even the best data systems won't tell the whole story." He feels their pain, sorta. But what the hell, let's stick it to 'em anyway. Then comes the topper--AD says:

"We didn't publish this in a newspaper in Chicago and I don't advocate that approach for other districts -- but the fact that teachers did not have this information is ridiculous."

So which is it? Publish and humiliate or not?

This part really hurts though. With all the push to publish names of teachers based on standardized test scores...he actually wants teachers "high in content knowledge. Those goals are really not that compatible if one is teaching to the test.

On second thought, that wasn't the sickest part. The sickest part was this throw-away line:

We trust that high-quality teachers — rich in content knowledge, confident in their skills, and poised to teach habits of mind — are the people who will turn our students into autonomous learners."

Yet many of those teachers are being tossed aside for single test scores.

Which is it to be, Arne?

[Angry Dragon]

1. Destroy the unions, enrich the education corporations

and when the education system of this country is destroyed then he will say
"I guess we will have to look at something else to fix the education system".

Dumbing down the youth of this country is full steam ahead and damn the torpedoes.
How else can you get the masses to not think and question the government
that just wants rule them instead of letting the people rule themselves.

[DrDan]

4. maybe we can get the corporations to help . . . .

[Starry Messenger]

2. k and invisi-r

He's a sociopath.

[Hannah Bell]

3. arne: another person who needs to be fired.

[DrDan]

5. by what logic would someone unrec this . . . someone here likes arne?

[madrchsod]

6. yes and it`s also personal.

[madfloridian]

10. You are right.

I have been told it is personal, and organized.

[xchrom]

7. recommend - still in negative territory. nt

[Angry Dragon]

8. I brought up to plus1

[xchrom]

9. kick for exposure. nt

[WinkyDink]

11. Has AD EVER discussed exactly WHAT CURRICULUM he would promote? Books, topics, methods, ANYTHING

educationally specific, insightful, innovative, inspiring, motivating, unifyng?

OR JUST TEST, TEST, TEST, THEN FIRE?

[madfloridian]

14. Tests and data and charters

That's about it.

[mopinko]

12. which is it? both

that would be why decision are not being made on the data alone. the data is being talked about as 30-50% of evaluations. content knowledge, education, those other areas make up the other half or more.

and the reason that he (and i) approve of what the times did is because the data was not even being looked at, let alone being used a tool to help teachers who needed help. it wasn't even given to the teachers themselves.

[madfloridian]

13. Their names were published when it is only 30-50% of being a good teacher?

So let's look at it your way for now. The students' names are not published. Their test scores are being used to make teachers look bad, even though the students are not held accountable.

So it is okay to publish their names and make it seem as though they were bad teachers, yet it is only half their score?

Parents and students are off the hook. Only teachers are held accountable for the test scores.

We can go in circles on this issue unless it is seen as what it is. It is an attack on public school teachers by this administration.

[mopinko]

16. well, presumably students received whatever they get for

having low test scores. they were 'accountable', individually, when the tests were taken in the first place.

i guess a lot of the problem i am having with this is that i don't see punishment as the goal of any of this. i see extra help being called for, pretty clearly, but not being delivered because lausd had their fingers in their ears. they should have been using this data, not to fire people, but to figure out what was going on. but they didn't.
i just don't see it as calling out the teachers half as much as calling out the district. and they sure the heck deserved the call out.

same thing with your desire to hold parents accountable. what do you mean by that? what is it you are proposing will happen to parents? we had this discussion in chicago, but the obvious first step is to help both the kid and the family to correct their problems, most of which are beyond their control. and since there was no such assistance available, the idea was dropped.

and just as an aside, seriously 'deficient' parents, ie serious neglect or abuse, is a mandatory report situation for the school. there have been occasional pushes to take parents of truants to court. not sure what the current status is. but it can happen. granted this is a small percentage, and does not encompass what i think you are wanting, but at least there is a bottom line.

[madfloridian]

17. Perhaps if you stop talking to me like I know nothing about education...

we might be able to talk.

I am stunned that teachers are now considered the only ones to blame when the students score poorly.

We used to put responsibility on the parents and students.

I taught for over 30 years at 6 grade levels. I am not ignorant about education. I had good principals and lousy ones.

Teachers are not to blame for everything, and students are sitting back on their little fannies and laughing at the teachers they once were taught to respect. Thanks to President Obama and his basketball buddy, Arne.

Oh, yes, I am mad.

[YvonneCa]

18. I think sometimes non-educators underestimate the intelligence...

...of the children in our schools. (Which is rather funny, because teachers are the ones always accused of 'dumbing things down' and not having high enough expectations. Remember when GWB said, " ...the soft bigotry of low expectations" when referring to educators? )

Anyway, the students I taught were sharp. They would quickly pick up on what they would hear from their family, on TV, online, or on the radio about schools and teachers. If it was supportive of schools/teaching and learning, they would bring that attitude and expectation to my classroom every day. IF...on the otherhand...it was dismissive or disrespectful, then that student would bring that negativity to class, too. THAT attitude hurts learning for that child...and disrupts it for the others in the room.

Another reason why the current environment is so toxic to education, teaching and learning. :hi:

[madfloridian]

19. You are right.

The attitude of the WH toward teachers is increasing the toxicity of the environment in which teachers must produce.

[YvonneCa]

20. "...increasing the toxicity of the environment in which teachers must produce."...

...EXACTLY. The stakes for NOT producing are higher than ever. And...at the same time... the lack of support and down-right denigration of educators is making success in teaching that much harder to achieve.

[mopinko]

21. perhaps you might afford me the same courtesy.

true i am only a parent. but i do have teachers in the family and among dear friends, including a fellow at the erickson institute, and did teach my own kids for 8 years. have some extensive and varied post secondary experience, also, both as a college student in a community college, as a student trustee at same, and a student at the art school of the ivy league, and as a mom on the nclb parent committee and DH on the local school council. i'm not stupid, i'm not uneducated.

[madfloridian]

22. I said parents, students and teachers should be held equally accountable.

I firmly believe that.

Allowing what a student does at one point in time on one test to destroy a teacher's career is outrageous.

[mopinko]

23. i don't think teachers are being scapegoated.

they are the most important part of the equation, and you cannot deny that. there is no more direct way to affect education in america than to raise the quality of teachers. i understand that some people are using a yardstick without regard to its distortions. some people are pointing fingers, and laying blame. that shit is useless.
nonetheless, we are tasked to improve teaching. i see that as the opposite of firing teachers. the task is to find the weaknesses, and strengthen them. and yes, find the ones that are unfixable, and remove them. they are a fraction. i know this. but they do so much damage.

there is nothing better than a good teacher and nothing worse than a bad one.

[madfloridian]

25. You can lead a child to a test, but you can't force him to do well.

I am again backing off. I refuse to argue anymore with a moderater.

I think parents and students must be just as accountable as teachers.

It is your right to think otherwise, and I am not going to argue.

[mopinko]

27. well, that's fine but

i have asked several times what this parent accountability would look like, and you still haven't answered that question.

and seriously, it makes me sad that you think we can't talk.
peace

[yurbud]

15. having good teachers is incompatible with union busting, shaming, and destroying job security

Who would volunteer for a job like that?

[fascisthunter]

24. it's not about education, it's about feeding a Market

that is destroying this country.

[YvonneCa]

26. FWIW, I get local LA news at home...

...and they are just beginning to cover this story. Apparently, teachers are starting to speak out.


http://cbs2.com/local/report.LAUSD.teachers.2.1885472.html

[madfloridian]

28. I hope they do because other papers are considering doing this.

Arne has set up an atmosphere of hostility toward teachers, and stuff like this thrives.

They will have to defend themselves quickly.