Wow. Big Brother moment at Target food store

[Flying Squirrel]

Caveat 1: This is secondhand information.

Caveat 2: Someone may have just been trying to scam my dad.

Caveat 3: If this is true, it could have been the policy only at a single store and not the entire chain of stores (which would not excuse it, but we wouldn't want to unfairly paint the entire Target name due to the actions of a single manager).

So here's what apparently happened: My dad, age 70, goes to a Target food store, gets some groceries, including a 6-pack of beer. The teenage cashier cards him. My dad says, "You gotta be kidding, have you looked at me? I'm 70." Kid says, "I'm sorry but my manager says we have to card everyone regardless of age."

Up to this point, it seems like some kind of typical BS that you might expect of, say, a pinheaded manager. But now the cashier lets loose the bombshell:

"And we have to take a photo of the back of your driver's license." In my state (WA), the back of the driver's license contains several barcodes with who knows what information encoded in them.

My dad leaves the 6-pack on the counter and tells the kid to tell his manager to shove it you know where.

[Sinistrous]

1. Can anybody back this up with a similar personal experience?

[Divine Discontent]

7. I've bought wine (I'm kinda middle aged) and they've asked for my ID, I've given it and they've

swiped it on their reader which runs the age so they don't even look. Who knows what else they get off of it, or if they run a fast BG check to see if people are wanted. As a citizen of the Central FL area, I know that Disney scans your fingerprint when you go into the park, but they say they delete it after your ticket expires.

[justabob]

29. had it happen with lighters once

I was at Target buying the usual life supplies, which included a 5 pack of Bic lighters. I got carded for the lighters. I asked why she needed to see id for lighters (and because I look every day of my 40 years). The clerk said that they do it because of arson. Really. Like carding me at the store is going to keep me from setting fire to my neighbor's garage or trash cans. The people behind me in line thought it was bizarre as well. I left the lighters rather than be carded.

[Systematic Chaos]

2. A LOT of places have "card EVERYONE" policies.

But keeping a copy of the ID information? That's new to me, and if it were true I'd have said the same thing as your dad.

[Old Codger]

3. Probably

same thing actually happened to me in LeGrande Oregon, was over there doing some construction work about 3 years ago and when the concrete crew finished pouring the foundation I went down to local walmart to get them a case of beer (hot day, hard work) The lady actually carded me, I thought it was a joke but she was serious, said company policy required to card everyone
I am almost 70.. and do not even come close to be referred to as "youthful" LOL... can't fix stupid.

[Lucian]

8. Walmart only makes us card people who look under the age of 40...

for tobacco and alcohol.

I know this because I work there. The employee is full of shit.

[RandomThoughts]

4. It is possible to read bar codes.

However I assume your point is that people are indexed and categorized.

The problem with data collection is unequal access and use of information.


Same tracking can now be done when every grocery store within a year of each other, came with cards, where if you did not have one you paid more for groceries.

It was not capitalism, but central data collection across many different companies.


I been off grid for years. I never really used any of those cards, the concept seems wrong.

[blueamy66]

34. Hell, there's a store that sells liquor on every corner in AZ

If they wanted to scan my ID, I'd leave and go across the street.

I think it also has to do with who is cashiering. I was buying a bottle in CVS yesterday and the cashier asked for my ID. I said that it was in my car but that I'd happily go get it for her. She asked my bday....I rattled it off, adding that I was 44 and she said forget it....and sold me the bottle.

Anyway, screw the card scanners.

[mike r]

5. There have been similar complaints against Target

For example:

http://www.my3cents.com/showReview.cgi?id=57929

On/about June 23 I purchased a 12 pack of Corona premium beer. The cashier met me with "ID" and no other greeting. I am a 72 year old male and certainly of age to purchase alcoholic beverages. The cashier was demanding (rudely) to swipe my Driver's license for identification purposes. I refused and requested that a manager be called.

Another employee, ostensibly a manager, did something with the cash register and I proceeded to check out. Although merchants have the obligation to ensure a buyer is of legal age, demanding ID from a person my age is ridiculous.

I also question the legality of wanting to swipe my Driver's license which contains more information than date of birth.

[unblock]

18. i imagine they would want it for their defense; perhaps they've had a problem.

let's say a person of legal age (perhaps obviously so) gets beer, having paid with cash or with a minor's card (who checks THAT, anyway?) and then gives said beer to said minor; then said minor gets drunk and something terrible happens.

now the family of said minor sues the crap out of said target for selling said beer to said minor. said family produces said receipt, paid showing said beer purchased at said target with said cash or said minor's said card.

now said target is in a shitload of trouble.

but, aha! if they scanned the id of said purchaser, then they have proof that they didn't sell said beer to said minor, or at least that said minor was using a false id. their version of the story (in this hypothetical, the truth) now has some evidence to support it, and out goes the family's legal case.


i'm sure what they're doing is legal because they are, in effect, asking your permission and if you agree, what's the problem?
of course, it's also annoying and distateful, and it's perfectly appropriate to reject the request and take your business elsewhere.

[Mz Pip]

6. I've had to show my license

at Target, too, when I've bought wine. I was told the same thing, that they have to get ID from everyone buying alcohol. I seem to remember being told it had something to do with minors working in the store. I can't remember if they scanned it or not, nor do I know what info is kept on the barcode on the back.

Maybe I should do a test run tomorrow.

[wolfgangmo]

39. In Minnesota.

Anyone who sells alcohol at all is required to check age. Usually it takes about a second and no one has tried to swipe my DL.

[azmouse]

9. I wish he had spoken to the manager to find out if this was true about the pic.

Could have been the kid was trying to pull some slick maneuver for his own not so honest purpose.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Carding everybody is becoming policy all over

I don't drink, but when I have had to buy whiskey for dad... yep, I've been carded. I joked with the lady "hey you are making me feel like a kid!"

But no, I have never gotten more than the ID looked at. Same for his cigs by the way.

[JuniperLea]

50. My fav response is...

Sure! I'm twice legal drinking age, so I can drink twice as much!

[SoCalDem]

52. It's a way to protect the cashiers & store from beiing fined

If they HAVE to card everyone, there is no reason for a cashier to have to decided which customers need to be carded and which ones do not.

Newer registers stop when a card-able item scans, so if a cashier overrides it without the proper procedures, they are probably risking their jobs..

It's kind of like when McDonalds started the cup-filling via robot beverage dispensers.:)

Recently, I had to swipe my DL when I bought canned air to "whoosh" my keyboard:)

[snagglepuss]

11. I'm surprised he left the store without having to sign over one of his kidneys:)

It's hard to believe they'd be allowed to photogragh a DL. Please posts any update.

[cynatnite]

12. A friend of my daughter was fired from her job for not carding...

It was a middle-aged man. Their policy is to card everyone. Period.

Now, the back of the license...could be a policy from the store for a lot of reasons. One of them being fake IDs.

[napi21]

13. I don't know about a. but here in Ga. it's the State law

that EVERYONE must be carded. I knw how you & your dad felt. How stupid can you possibly be?? I've been there. I'm 67 and I have to produce ID evey time I buy beer or wine and for anything at the spirit shop. The state's reason is that there have been so many people who LOOK 21 or older but are 17,18,19, that they just made the rule for all to eliminate the problem. The clerk would lose their job if they said OK just to apease you or your dad, or ME! It's not that great a job, but I sure don't want to be the cause of someone losing their job. I've reached the point now that when I buy anthing alcholic, I just pull out the DL and lay it on the counter. BTW, I had to do the same thing to buy spray paint when I lived in TX.

[csziggy]

26. Same here in Florida and the police do sting operations to make sure

Frankly, I do not see anything wrong with the policy that every person buying a restricted substance be carded. Better than leaving up to the discretion of minimum wage workers.

[Dappleganger]

30. I don't think so.

Total Wine and Costco never, ever card me. I think that here in FL if a biz does card everyone it's their choice. There are other states which do (IN, NY, TN, etc.). However, stores selling alcohol face very stiff penalties for selling to minors so it is easier on them to tell their employees to card everyone regardless of what they look like.

[csziggy]

33. I know someone who got arrested for not carding

During a police sting. The girl was over 21 but looked sixteen according to the arresting cop. The clerk had a pile up of customers and was just ringing up items and taking money as fast as possible while trying to keep an eye on the outside pumps for drive offs. He really could not keep up with every detail and five minutes later when they busted him, he had no clue which person he had missed carding. The cops admitted they waited to send in their ringer until it got really busy. If you are not getting carded, those businesses are really lucky that they have not had clerks arrested.

The pisser is, it is the minimum wage clerk that ends up with the arrest record. The business that does not make or enforce a policy that meets the standards of the law gets nothing - unless they do not immediately fire the clerk. So they can under staff, train poorly, and have piss poor policies, no problem. There are plenty of more people out there desperate for any job that will come along as soon as the position is advertised.

[NashVegas]

56. If Consumers Boycotted Beer, You'd See That Law Change In a Hurry

[Whoa_Nelly]

14. They use ChoicePoint's SWIPE identification system

I think it is a scam to get your personal info. There is a lot of information on the magnetic strip and/or barcode on a driver's license.

http://www.preemptivemedia.net/swipe/research.html

[donheld]

15. I think I'd go back and make the Manager tell me that in person

That's just too bizarre for belief.

[mzteris]

16. I've been to more than one Target with the same idiot policy.

I was at one - my first experience with this stupidity - last Thanksgiving Eve - had several bottles of wine and some beer - and no id - no sale. I was absolutely incensed - especially as in this municipality they have an equally stupid law of "no alcohol sales after 9 pm".... and it was nearly that... I wound up having to drive to the nearest municipality - which admittedly isn't "that" far - but the selection there sucked... and it was a pain in the derriere!

I don't know about making the copy part, because I refuse to shop there. Idiots. Have I mentioned lately how much I hate stupid people?

[dflprincess]

17. I notice the grocery store in my neighborhood (not a Target)

cards everyone buying cigarettes & I've seen the clerks card people who sure look like they're over 70. But all they do is punch in the birthdate manually (apparently the register won't let a tobacco sale be completed until a birthdate has been entered); they don't scan the license. Stangely, the liquor stores don't card everyone - but I've heard stores can get in deeper trouble for selling tobacco to a minor. (Which makes no sense to me.)

[Warpy]

20. That's what the grocery near me does

Maybe scanning it turns up fakes when the birth dates don't match, dunno about that.

The manager should have been asked about the policy. We have little enough privacy now without having to surrender more of it to buy a six pack of beer.

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

19. since we are supposed to be boycotting target .....

the stores computer flags I.D. required sales and swiping the license provides proof of a legal sale.

no different then when i get supplies at work, and my badge is wanded so they know what department to bill.

[OnyxCollie]

21. Support your local beverage store.

Fuck Target.

[Matariki]

22. Good for your dad.

If everyone does that then the store will stop the stupid policy.

On the other hand maybe the cashier had ulterior motives?

[Mnpaul]

23. I have seen it for cigarette purchases

They have to swipe your card befor ethe cash register will allow them to proceed. Don't know about alcohol, quit drinking years ago.

[Quantess]

24. Are you the same Flying Squirrel we knew before?

[uppityperson]

37. This one? I wonder.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=210470

[Flying Squirrel]

42. see above

[Flying Squirrel]

41. More or less.

I'm now 18 months sober and working a program of recovery, so there have been some changes in my psyche. But yes, that's me. I "killed" myself by changing password and email info, then deleting that info from my computer because I felt I was spending too much time on this site and it was starting to interfere with my recovery, but was too addicted to stop or moderate DUsage on my own. PM'd Skinner asking to re-set password and email info but I'm sure he's much too busy to be bothered with something like that.

[uppityperson]

54. Congratulations and may you be able to continue

[Sherman A1]

25. Simple answer

don't buy your alcohol at Target.

[csziggy]

27. Washington state recommends checking the IDs of everone purchasing booze

And their guide for retail stores gives a lot of details about checking for valid IDs:
http://liq.wa.gov/publications/FinalEnglishMastHandbook.pdf
(Since your profile indicates you are in Washington state, I am assuming your father is in the same place. But many states have similar laws.)

So it is not some "pinheaded manager" or even corporate policy, it is state law that your father was asking some clerk to ignore. And if that clerk had ignored the law, they could not only lose their job, they could be charge with a crime.

My sympathies are with the clerk your father was so rude to.

[whistler162]

31. Same in New York... sans photo of back of driver license

If the clerk doesn't ID you the store and the clerk can be in a lot of trouble if caught.

no idea about the photo.

[Flying Squirrel]

43. The issue was not the checking of id, but the copying of the back of the license.

[csziggy]

60. The license is not really yours (or your father's), it is the state's

And while I don't know about Washington State, here in Florida everything on a driver's license is public knowledge and easily accessible by the public. So I don't understand your father's over reaction. And I especially don't understand taking it out on the clerk.

If he has a problem with Target corporate policy, he should contact the manager, or the corporate headquarters. If he does not like the laws of the state he lives in, he should contact his elected representatives. Giving some lowly clerk a hard time for something out of their control may make your father feel good but it is an unfair way to treat a person who cannot do anything about either the policy or crap from a belligerent customer.

[zbdent]

28. Not Target, but a chuckle some people might appreciate ...

Mrs. ZBDent and I are 5 months apart in age.

She also has the good fortune to look young. I would suspect that I also have that good fortune (!!!).

We were in Vegas, in our early 40s, a few years back.

Mrs. ZBDent left the roulette table, where she just spent half an hour playing, with her chips in hand (and me pushing her wheelchair).

We go over to watch the action at the craps table.

The pit boss insists that she show ID (JUST TO BE WATCHING!!!).

RIGHT AFTER SHE WAS GAMBLING IN THE CASINO, WITHIN SIGHT OF THE CRAPS TABLE!

She was pissed that the pit boss thought she was so young.

Prologue:
A couple of years ago, we went to Vegas for her birthday. Went into "Dick's Last Resort" in Excalibur. They carded her. I told her (as I did in the previous example) that she was still looking youthful. This time, she was pleased. (BTW, I didn't get an alcoholic beverage, she did, and they claim they card everybody who orders alcoholic drinks ...)

Mrs. ZBDent turns 47 this year. And she's still cute, and turns me on!

[qb]

32. Target is run by a wingnut lying sack of shit. I know it's irrelevant to the OP,

but I wanted to throw that in.

[indepat]

35. My recollection is TN law requires carding of all, including this ggrandfather, but there is no

requirement to take a photo of the driver's license. The six-pack needs to be shoved up a lot of you-know-wheres in all such instances. :P

[LynneSin]

36. Loosen the tinfoil hats. Some state policies require everyone to be carded

You could be one foot in your grave all wrinkled and grey hair but you still have to provide proof of age to buy cigarettes in Delaware. By setting the policy as such it removes the chance that someone borderline isn't carded and buys cigarettes. Plus as a 40 year old woman, nothing thrills me more than when I'm carded for booze!

[superconnected]

38. After reading the comments on this thread - I'm getting the idea that stores

are now criminal screening facilities, like airports are terrorist screening facilities. I mean really buying lighters requires id and a criminal check? The more the gov along with corporations, "protects" us, the less safe I feel about them.

[ScreamingMeemie]

44. No... stores, and their minimum wage employees can face stiff

financial penalties and "classes" in alcohol and tobacco responsibility (again, at their cost) for selling to a minor. I don't know too many $200/week employees who can afford that.

[JuniperLea]

49. Up to and including losing their license to sell booze of any kind...

Yep... bad news.

Copying the DL seems over the top and fishy, however.

[ScreamingMeemie]

51. Agreed on the copying. That's kind of odd.

[bigmonkey]

40. I'm a grey-haired 54.

My local liquor store cards me every single time, and they're serious about it. It's completely ridiculous, just a routinization of "show your papers."

[ecstatic]

45. They scan your age I think

One time I bought alcohol from self check out, and I saw my birthday flash upon the screen.

[ScreamingMeemie]

46. If I were to sell (as a new convenience store worker) alcohol/tobacco/lighters

to a minor, or someone who looked like they might possibly be one, I am (as an employee, not a store owner) subject to stiff fines and classes in alcohol/tobacco education. The owners of my small store would rather we card everyone, rather than make a mistake. They've been nailed before. Hate the policy, not the person. Your hatred of the policy isn't going to be worth my small paycheck in the end. :) I'm not interested in turning you in to "Big Brother", but I am interested in being able to have a little bit extra in the bank.

[JuniperLea]

47. I'm carded all the time...

Even when I show up with my kids who are all of drinking age... and obviously my kids.

Heck, I don't care! I see it as making up for all the times I went out drinking at 16, 17, and 18, and didn't get carded;)

Copying the driver's license is probably a bad move on the part of the manager... that smacks of wrong!

[AngryOldDem]

48. That sounds fishy.

Here in Indiana, they recently enacted a law that cards everyone, regardless of age, who buys liquor. You just show the cashier your driver's license and that's it. I bought two airplane-sized (single-serve) bottles of wine today myself and had to go through that song and dance.

I think it's totally ridiculous, especially for those who are obviously older than 18.

[RamboLiberal]

53. PA which is still in the dark ages with liquor

Only been about a year that certain groceries stores (must have an seated restaurant in building) can sell beer & those types of products. Local grocery chain Giant Eagle swipes everyone's DL or has to see picture ID to buy beer no matter the age. Pisses a lot of people off but that is the policy.

Copy thing does sound fishy. Any chance their scanners were down & they thought they had to have some proof they followed state policy?

[deaniac21]

55. made up

[newtothegame]

57. Ahhh, the fresh smell of change. nt

[Duer 157099]

58. I can verify that the same thing happened to me at a CA Target

A few weeks ago. They said it was a new policy, that they MUST scan the ID card. I was caught off guard otherwise I would have said screw this, but instead I handed over my ID.

Won't be buying beer at Target ever again.

[RainDog]

59. everyone has to be carded now in my state for alcohol or cigs

it's ridiculous but it's the law