I am so tired of trying to reason with people who don't want to know facts.

[AspenRose]

Regarding the latest Ground Zero not-a-mosque controversy:

An acquaintance is upset that the Greek Orthodox church has been looked over in favor of the "mosque" at Ground Zero.

So when facts are offered up (after I ask if there were problems beforehand with the church):

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/24/nyregion/24greek.html

...such as the Port Authority not having any jurisdiction over the community center, or the breakdown in negotiations between the church and the Port Authority back in 2008 (which seems like a huge misunderstanding and nothing nefarious)

...the response given is, basically: Said acquaintance doesn't care about the facts; she cares that someone donated money to build the "mosque" from who-knows-where (think some nefarious plot here) while the church is financially struggling. "Period."

*sigh* Honestly, I give up. You cannot reason with people who DON'T WANT to think critically. :banghead:

(If they'd just own up to their Islamophobia without using the poor broke Greek Orthodox church as a smokescreen. It sounds like the priest sort of regrets being used and pulled into this.)

*Heavy Sigh* :-(

[Warpy]

1. You can't persuade People who Believe Stupid Things with facts

or logic or sound reasoning. They are impervious.

All you can do is say, "You bought that?" and walk away laughing.

The laughter likely won't change their alleged minds, but it will shut them up in polite company, and we've got to take what we can get these days.

"Never argue with a crazy person" is rule #1 for living a pleasant life.

[SidDithers]

7. +7....

see the "Corexit in the swimming pool" thread for supporting evidence of your hypothesis.

:applause:

Sid

[T Wolf]

2. Your statement clearly illustrates YOUR problem - trying to "reason" with these people when

they do not care about facts or reality.

Better to simply put them out of your misery, since they are lost causes and not worth the effort.

As they say, it doesn't improve the situation and just pisses off the pig.

[TheMuse]

3. Facts just get in the way of their ideology

That is basically the thinking of alot of these people. They have their mind made up before hand on the result, and then go searching for anything to support it afterward. You can see why they also have a disdain for scientific reasoning.

[azureblue]

4. Then hit them where it hurts the most

their perverted version of Christianity....

Like this:

Here is the way to handle the wingers:

I have been responding to right wingers for a while- I have some in my family and have crossed swords with quite a few on the internet. Some are thinkers, but the bulk of them simply repeat what they have been told – whether it came from church or the TV or radio. If you can get them to discuss the rationale behind what they think is "right" , especially if it is something like homophobia and Muslim terrorists, you will reach a point where they simply regurgitate dogma. But, one and all, they will end up at the same point. Invariably, if you talk with them for a while, their viewpoint reduces to "God said this." At this point, no amount of reasoning will work - they have closed their mind and retreated to the walls of their religion. Their version of the Supreme Being has spoken, and the matter is settled – case closed. No matter what you say, nothing will change their minds. Or maybe not.

Quote the words of Jesus back to them. It will help a lot to know what the verses are to refer to, but Matthew 7 has the bulk of it. The Beatitudes is another. Jesus said to take care of the sick, the elderly, the afflicted, the poor. Etc. The Golden Rule, too, and the 9th Commandment (I love this one- do not bear false witness – I use it as an opener when some wing nut spouts some lies they heard from Beck or Fox). Take them straight into the teachings of Jesus- don’t bother trying to reason with them – they will not respond. But they will, for sure, when you begin with, "Are you a Christian? Well, what did Jesus teach about that?" Note - do not respond to any attempt to get off the subject- simply refer back to the Bible’s words of Christ- don’t get drawn into a personal argument – stay on the quotes. If they get into name calling, simply respond with, "that is not a Christian thing to do at all." You are not attacking their faith, but you are exposing their hypocrisy. And do it without mercy.
I recently had a FB dialogue with a rabid winger- The usual lies, etc., saying that Rush & Beck were "right", Obama is Satan, spouting Fox talking points, and telling me that "God will prevail". Rather than address their BS, I confronted them with the teachings of Jesus (since these types think they are all really good Christians, but always ignore the teachings of Jesus), quoting Matthew 7:1-5 (hypocrisy). Of course they came back with a dodge, which was how dare you judge me, which left them wide open for "I am showing you the Words of Christ as written in the Bible, which you refuse to listen to, by your own choice. Open your own Bible and read them for yourself." This threw them into a fit - Name calling, ranting, etc., and all the while refusing to even acknowledge the Bible quote. I returned with another quote from Matthew 7, "wolves in sheep's clothing", and that sent them over the edge.
This is the nuts cases’ weak spot, and I can't stress it more- the dichotomy of what they believe, vs. what Jesus taught in the Bible. They all consider themselves "God Fearing", but the haters of them never pay attention to what Christ taught. Hammer them with this point – they are refusing the Words and teachings of their "Savior Lord Jesus Christ" Simply put, if they did, they would not hate. Anything they come up with can be easily refuted with what Jesus is quoted as saying. Just keep going back to that- "What did Jesus say about that?" then say "Now Jesus didn't tell you to do that, did He? Of course not." And to drive the point home (and watch it here, because this is where they will blow a fuse) "I have pointed out to you the teachings of Jesus, His words from the Bible and you refuse them. You deny His words and, by doing so, you deny Jesus Himself. There is no wiggle room- Jesus told you what to do and you refuse to do it." And this will drive them nuts, every time. I have used this method several times, and it always works. Elaborate as needed.
And, yes, it's time to call them on their lies, hate and fear. And the time for reasoned discourse is over. Time to stand up for what is right. Time to hit them where it matters, and their bent version of the Christian Religion is it. In sum, you can’t have a "Christian" Nation, and ignore what Christ taught. The two go together, or they don’t go at all. Call them on it.

[bigmonkey]

8. I imagine it would help the human condition to have a platoon of people who could do this argument.

Few can. It's confrontational, but I think your method is likely very effective.

[The Doctor.]

9. Very well laid-out.

That is my preferred approach as well.

When dealing with a woman, I'll often just quote Timothy; "Thou shalt not suffer a woman to teach". Other than that, I just ask them why they do not do as The Bible instructs. Leviticus is a fount of instruction that reveals hypocrisy.

It's always fun making their heads explode.

[Wilber_Stool]

5. Dr. Bob to the rescue.

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

This explained it all. Pay particular attention to chapter three.

[BrklynLiberal]

6. “Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.” Robert Heinlein

Sorry.that is what immediately came to mind...

[Ganja Ninja]

10. You're wasting your breath. They know what the facts are.

They're playing a game. It's call build your own reality. Ignore them and in the end they will get their just deserts.

[monmouth]

11. Before any church/mosque is built on or near this area, a taxable

rate must be established. Not taxing religious establishments should be a thing of the past. To erect a building(s) the size of those contemplated in New York???/Whooooo boy, a big change in location, location, location, may be in their future..LOL.

[HopeHoops]

12. That's like having sex with someone who doesn't have genitals.

:shrug: