Defending the n-word "double standard"

[wndycty]

Cross posted at:http://blog.windycitywatch.com/2010/08/defending-n-word-double-standard.html

Defending the n-word "double standard"

According to a post on Gawker some crazy pastors from Florida have posted a video on YouTube to make a point about the “double standard” of rappers and comedians being able to use the n-word while Dr. Laura can’t.

Rather than me pretending that there is not a “double standard” when it comes to the use of the N-word I would rather defend it.

As an African American male, do I sometimes use the n-word in private amongst close friends?
Yes.

Do I laugh when Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, Richard Pryor, Dave Chappelle and other comedians use it?
Hell yes, to be correct I normally laugh my entire unruly light skinned Black ass off.

Do I listen to rap songs that use it?
Yes.

Do I take offense when folks who are not Black use it?
Yes, with a few exceptions relating to context.

Am I a hypocrite? I think not.

Here is the deal and I am only speaking for myself, not other Black folk:

Slurs used against identity groups have long been appropriated by those groups as a means by which to take the power from those who would use it against them in a derogatory manner. In some cases it's just sheer defiance against the dominant culture.

I have been fortunate enough to be close to people who belong to many different identity groups. Some of these friends have felt comfortable enough with me to let their hair down and in conversation use some of the slurs directed towards their respective groups in my presence.

Not once did I take their use of these words as permission for me to use them. Nor do I think that my lack of permission to use these words negatively impacts my quality of life or First Amendment rights.

This is not about political correctness, it is about common decency. Why would anyone think its alright to use words that might be offensive to a particular group?

Hell, given my “light, bright and damn near. . .” complexion I don’t even feel comfortable using the n-word around other Black folks who don’t know me and might think that I am white, even if they are using the word themselves.

The responsibility to determine whether or not my use of a slur is offensive doesn’t lie with those who may be offended, the responsibility is on me not to offend.

While the use of the b-word seems to be acceptable in pop-culture and appears to have shed some of the misogynistic stigma that has been associated with it for years, I’m still loathed to use it publicly.

I once considered using it in a Facebook/FourSquare/Twitter update announcing my taking a Yoga class by posting "Namaste, 'b-words'!" But then I thought, while it would probably be received in a humorous way by some of my social network, it wasn't worth offending the ones who would not. Those who might think it was funny wouldn't remember it a day later, but those offended probably wouldn't ever forget about it.

My life has not suffered one bit because I chose not to offend.

This “double standard” that the Florida pastors worry about does not only apply to the n-word, it would apply to many other slurs that have been appropriated by the identity groups they were meant to demean.

Rather than worrying why certain folks can use certain words that others can’t lets worry about doing on to others as you would have them do unto you.

[RandomThoughts]

1. Hence why I do nothing, and try to just be kind.

Justice is in better hands. :hug:

:loveya:

[mzteris]

2. watch this amazing video

Call me a Ni@@a now!!! : http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/video/video.php?v=164463376538&ref=mf

[wndycty]

4. Its a great video, however its a separate issue. . .

. . .while there is a ongoing debate within the African American community the focus of my post was pointing out that just because some of us use it does not give someone else the right to use it.

[mzteris]

11. imo - NO ONE has the "right" to use it -

I don't care what color you are.

It is a vile ugly word and wtf would one want to use a word that is so insulting?

The video speaks to the heart of that matter - that NO ONE should EVER use that word.

[wndycty]

19. OK, so white folks have had the right to say throughout the years. . .

. . .now that Black folk have appropriated it and some of us use it ourselves we are not allowed to say it?

1) I will not defend the word, but I will admit to using it and not having a problem when other African Americans use it.

2) I would not mind if folks stop saying it all together and I look forward to when its use is decreased, however I'm not going call for the word to be banned and never used again.

3) EVERYONE has the right to use it, HOWEVER those who do Black, white, Asian, Hispanic, etc., must be prepared for the consequences. You did notice that I said even though I use it amongst friends, as an African American I wouldn't use it around folks I don't know.

4) If you feel that even Black folks don't have a "right" to use it would you agree that folks who belong to other identity groups would not have a ride to use any of the slurs directed towards them or does your standard only apply to Black folks?

[mzteris]

25. two wrongs make a right?

So you're gonna show whitey how wrong it is by using it?

I don't follow your logic.

Watch the video. Again. and again and again if you have to. It explains it VERY WELL and in terms even a child can usually understand.

My standards of racial/ethnic slurs apply to every person on the planet. And that includes gender, or gender-orientation slurs.

[wndycty]

27. There is no right or wrong on the use of the n-word by African Americans

I'm very proud of that young man and what he said in the video. He is not wrong, however there are many other African Americans who view it differently.

I'm sorry some folks don't get the complexities and how identity groups, not just African Americans with the n-word, appropriate slurs directed towards them.

As I have said, I would be happy if the use of the word declined, however I'm not going to pretend that I have ANY GUILT in using it amongst friends, laughing at comedians who use it, and enjoying the numerous musicians, poets, writers, actors and other artists who have used it in their work.

When it comes to the n-word and its use in the African American community there is no right or wrong answer and you are not going to make me see if differently.

[mzteris]

28. so continue to use the word and "laugh" - by your actions

you perpetuate it's use amongst every child who looks up to you. Want to eradicate it? Want to see it's use decline? Then STOP using it and STOP "laughing" at it, because it ain't funny. Not one damn bit.

[wndycty]

30. Have I ever used it in front of children? No.

Do I use it publicly? No.

Do I promote the use of it? No.

Do I think that more people should use it? No.

Do I think that children should use it? No.

Do I think that its OK for there to be a "double standard" as it relates to who uses it? FUCK YEAH!

========================================================

Do you have a problem with the GLBT community using the "Q" word?

Do you have a problem the fact that John Leguizamo did an entire HBO Special named "S-word"orama?

Do you have a problem that Meredith Brooks had a hit song named "I'm a b-word?"

[Bluenorthwest]

53. Rather than chide you for your verbal imperialism

Allow me to simply suggest that there is a large difference between the usage of the word Queer by my community, and that other one by your own community. The use is not analogous. I'm not going to lecture, just offer that if such subjects matter to you, investigate the way it is used, read up on the intentional employment of it in political work, and so on. Read some Chappelle on why he left his show and gave back the big check as well. Dave actually thinks. Read what he says.
Everybody has a right to all words. The choices we make create us.
If you wish to co-opt terms from other communities, you need to have understanding of the terms you are using. You do not. The double standard does not extend to your misuse of words for others. That is, you really should not use the word 'queer' as a rhetorical device to make your argument. It is not your word, and you do not understand the context in which it is used. Do not think that you do, instead, go forth and learn.

[wndycty]

55. Verbal imperialism? Wow you must have impressed yourself with that

I'm very aware of both Chappelle's and Pryor's awakenings.

I think its pretty fucking ignorant and arrogant of you to think that I haven't already read what Chappelle said about the word or to assume that my reading what he said would change my opinion.

Its their awakenings not mine. I have never used the word to the extent that they have. My use of the word has not impacted pop culture the way that Chappelle's or Pryor's use has. I have not made one damn dime for my use of the word in private amongst close friends, let alone the millions that both me have.

I'm not trying to use the q-word, never have I don't want to. More importantly it would be absolutely fucking wrong of me to tell you and others from your community that you can't or shouldn't use the word.

Talk about fucking hypocritical. You are going to lecture me, a Black man about using the N-word, but defend the use of the q-word in the GLBT community by telling me I don't know what I am talking about.

As I said you must have impressed yourself with that post. Talk about a superiority complex.

[Bluenorthwest]

112. Point is that you are trying to use what you call 'the Q word'

in a way that I, as one, do not think is appropriate. That is the word being co-opted, and I am suggesting that it is not your use of the word is not really fitting for your argument here. The word has a long history, and currently it has a definition that is really a bit more exacting that merely 'gay'.
The word I speak of is queer. Which describes me. It is in my arena to address the use of the word by those whom it does not describe. I get to do so if I wish. And I did. I'd rather that no straight person invoke that word in any context ever. They have done so enough in the past. When they pick it up, I cringe. I do not trust them with the word. And I'd rather that you not invoke that word at all. That is my personal, individual opinion. If you are going to make use of it, again, I suggest a more in depth understanding of the word might serve you and perhaps even remove the cringe factor. Or maybe I'm wrong to cringe, but as I say, the word is not on my list of things I like to hear straight people bring up. Pushes buttons. Straights made that word into a slur in the first place. So there you have it.

[superduperfarleft]

60. What in the hell is "verbal imperialism?"

And the irony of you chiding a black man for using the n-word while simultaneously aggressively defending the use of "queer" by the gay community....oh fuck it.

[wndycty]

62. You see as I Black man I don't know what is best for me unless a well meaning white person tells me

. . .oh my.

[superduperfarleft]

64. That's pretty much what I'm gathering. n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

71. You get it!

:sarcasm:

How can anyone over the age of 12 be so dense about this concept?
Thank you for the OP, wndycty.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

67. How dare you lecture the black community.

Don't EVER presume to tell the black community how to describe themselves while at the same time saying your own community can use the "Q" word how it sees fit. How fucking hypocritical of you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

76. Bluenorthwest... bluenorthwest... why does that name ring a bell?

Oh yeah, the aftermath of prop 8 and voters of a certain skin color.

[mzteris]

80. "double standards" are NEVER good. ever.

GLBT community using the Q word? From what I understand, it's not considered an insult, so no.
I have no idea who John Leguizamo is or what the "s-word" is.
Who's Merdith Brooks?

[wndycty]

88. So if some homophobe used the Q word to attack a member of the GLBT community. . .

. . .it wouldn't be an insult?

Wow. Deep, very deep.

[mzteris]

91. you're just full of yourself aren't you?

You love to twist words to suit you so you can insult others and stand back and play the innocent.

[wndycty]

94. Did you or did you not say that the q word is not an insult?

How does me pointing that out mean I am full of myself.

I'm defending the my OP and you are accusing me of being full of myself?

[mzteris]

98. one CAN "use" ANY word as an insult . . . so stop playing

word games here.

[wndycty]

101. Word games? If I went ahead and called my GLBT borthers and sisters on DU the Q word. . .

. . .I would rightfully expect to be criticized, have my thread alerted on and possibly even Tombstoned.

Am I wrong? Yes or No. It is a Yes/No question.

[mzteris]

104. have you stopped beating your wife?

It is a yes/no question.

Usage. It's all in the usage and intent.

There IS NO "proper" or "appropriate" usage or intent (except for historical representation) of that word.

[wndycty]

108. You didn't answer my question, instead you asked a question.

. . .did you or did you not say the Q word was not meant to be an insult?

Yes/No

And for the record. No I didn't stop beating my wife because and I don't have one and if I did I wouldn't beat her.

[JustAnotherGen]

38. I love this 'thought'

OK, so white folks have had the right to say throughout the years. . .
. . .now that Black folk have appropriated it and some of us use it ourselves we are not allowed to say it?

It was okay back in the day (and it was - let's not gild the lily) for white folks to use it.

But now that they can't use it - a certain segment of the population wants to dissect WHY they can no longer us it - but black folks can?


I think the pastor needs to read: Who Moved My Cheese?

[Matariki]

16. you need a facebook login. f*#k facebook

x(

[mzteris]

26. here's a youtube version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H8yp7VQ3ZY

i'm sorry - i didn't realize it was restricted to FB.

[RadiationTherapy]

3. This white guy is not interested in owning that word in any way, shape, or form.

Those who find black people using it to be a double-standard has my personal permission to use the word as often as necessary.

[deaniac21]

5. I'm offended by the word old.

[valerief]

8. Yeah, Fat Ass is the one that bugs me. nt

[deaniac21]

9. Old fat ass would be worse than than the n word.

[valerief]

10. Bwahahaha! OFA!!!!

:rofl:

[valerief]

6. Ha! Light, bright, and damn near Gesundheit? Troglodyte? Hermaphrodite?

:rofl:

Sorry, just had to laugh. Never heard that expression before.

[slackmaster]

7. You're just a pedagogue.

:nuke:

[Johnyawl]

12. bullshit

all the rationalizations in the world doesn't change the fact that it's a double standard, and you're a hypocrite.

[wndycty]

18. I didn't say it wasn't a double standard, I defended the fact that it was. . .

. . .but I understand that your life suffers because I can say it and you can't.

[TorchTheWitch]

35. amen

An offensive term is offensive no matter who uses it. I would never imagine that it's ok to use words offensive to women as long as it's to another woman or part of "comedy" because I'm a woman. Either the terms are offensive or they aren't regardless of who uses them, and they aren't ever funny. The only time it's ever acceptable to use offensive terms are for identification of those terms and to condemn them.

[superduperfarleft]

44. You don't get to condescend to black people by telling them they can't use that word.

That's a conversation for black people to have amongst themselves, as opposed to being scolded by white liberals about it.

[wndycty]

47. DAMN!

I agree with you I just hope that the poster you responded to is in fact a white liberal.

While I still use the word, there are just as many African Americans who don't want anyone, Black, white or other using the word.

[TorchTheWitch]

58. oh bullshit

If a word or term is offensive then it's offensive whoever uses it. Period.

[wndycty]

59. So I suppose you will lecture other identity groups about not appropriating/reclaiming. . .

. . .slurs directed at them as well. Right?

[superduperfarleft]

61. I'll echo the question asked below - what do you think of Mark Twain?

After all, there's evidently no such thing as "context" in your world.

[wndycty]

66. There is no answer

:kick:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

70. The answer is that he's fine with Mark Twain.

He just doesn't want to admit it.

[superduperfarleft]

45. Yeah, it sucks that white people have it so hard these days

that they can't even use the n-word in peace.

What's the world coming to? :cry:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. What's your opinion of Mark Twain?

[BolivarianHero]

13. The n-word "double standard" and the Ground Zero Mosque...

So is this where both the centre and the right have led American discourse?

[Skittles]

14. it's pretty simple

if the old gal at the work cafeteria cash register calls me HONEY, that's cool but it's a different story if a COWORKER calls me honey

[blondeatlast]

37. Skittles gets it.

:thumbsup:

[Matariki]

15. If the point is to take power from the word

and by that I assume you mean the power to hurt, then shouldn't someone using it the way Dr. "b-word" Laura used it not matter? She was repeating what her caller said and not using it as a slur? I'm not advocating her or the use of that word, just following your logic...

[-..__...]

17. At first I thought it was going to be about....

George Carlin's observation (and yes, it's funny ... I don't give a fuck who you are).

The Richard Pryor one is funny too, but Carlin is right on the money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZCS5I80X-8

[Jack_DeLeon]

20. I believe in freedom of speech...

anyone can use any word they want, and I can use words back too if needed.

[TexasObserver]

21. recommend

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Since you went there... let me add my thoughts as a HISTORIAN

Negro is a word... and it is a word that was used with pride by Leaders ranging from Dubois to Martin Luther King.

This is a word that became a slur... and a painful world. In my view it is time to RETAKE this word, and make it a world of PRIDE.

There is much to be proud off...

Oh and yes, it can lead to a few ahem cruel misunderstandings as well. I'm writing a history of labor in the US. Hence a few (more than just a few) of my primary sources have this word peppered all over the place. I hate to have to explain that bills of sale for African slaves are historic documents, as painful as they are, and yes that is a context where the word is painful. But reading Dubois and Harriet Jacobs and Frederick Douglas, oh and yes Martin, well you cannot avoid it.

It is a word that has many meanings... and much pain... but also a lot of incredible people who USED it attached to it.

Of course I am white... and Jewish... but at least Tyke never had both meanings. But Jew did and still does...

Oh and yes, I hate it that Jews can make Jewish jokes and nobody else can... for the same reasons by the way.

Oh and I have met some people who are openly racists by the way... and they will use whatever word they know will hurt... one of them was my patient...

[bliss_eternal]

23. ---heavy sigh----

gettin' real tired of this argument. the thing i'm most tired of, is that this stale argument is trotted out everytime someone in the public realm makes an ass of themselves, by using that word. :eyes:

i laughed myself silly watching (and listening to) richard pryor, and yes--he used the word.
but it took a trip to africa for pryor to say he wouldn't use that word in his work, ever again. and he didn't (in his stand-up, after that). sadly, those that came after him, who claim to have learned so much from him...didn't seem to learn what was most important....

...the fact that, there aren't any n*****. period.

there's blood on that word. it needs to be left in the ugly, degrading, dehumanized past it came from. not reclaimed, redressed, repackaged, recycled or repurposed. just permanently disposed of, as the vile, poisonous garbage that it is. :puke:

oh and no disrespect toward the op, but those that make a case (and justification) for "a double standard" make me dizzy, nauseaus, and themselves look silly, imo. it sickens me that in 2010, too few take the time to recall that black people marched, were hosed down, incarcerated, tarred and feathered, beaten and in many cases died, so no one after them would EVER be called that word.

yeah, i said it. :( :grr: :mad::cry:

[wndycty]

24. Richard Pryor chose not to use that word, he was not forced not to use that word. . .

. . .he never asked "why can I use the word and white folks can't"

I think when Richard Pryor made that statement it was one of the most beautiful moments in his long career. My position is not at odds with his position.

[bliss_eternal]

74. respectfully...

...i wasn't attempting to say your stance was, (in opposition to his stance or choice). i was attempting to say, i find those that make the choice (to use it), and defend doing so (on a public scale) create issues that are in opposition to the greater good (whether they realize it or not). ;)

i was pointing out that though many enjoyed, (and learned from) pryor's use of the word in his work--that pryor, and his work in time, evolved. perhaps i'm merely calling for some self-reflection on the part of those that make this choice. as opposed to the seemingly immediate knee-jerk defense and justification, of the word (publicly).

[mzteris]

29. exactly =

this -

"there's blood on that word. it needs to be left in the ugly, degrading, dehumanized past it came from. not reclaimed, redressed, repackaged, recycled or repurposed. just permanently disposed of, as the vile, poisonous garbage that it is."

says it perfectly.

[bliss_eternal]

73. ......thanks!

:hi::pals:

[snooper2]

31. So If I'm at my local bar and I'm singing along to Tupac's "Hit em' up"

Which took me FOREVER to get on the jukebox :P

And you wallked in would you be offended?


Actually years back at another sports bar I'm pretty sure I ran two ladies off :P I always use the play now feature which makes your songs you pay for come next trumping whatever crap somebody selected. Soon as this verse below came on they went to the outside patio area :evilgrin: (They were a couple Texas bluehairs (which you actually don't see that often in the metroplex))


(You claim to be a player but I fucked your wife
We bust on Bad Boys nig**s fuck for life)


"Tupac - Hit Em Up(Uncensored)"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4HjsZqOaQ0

[wndycty]

32. You know Chris Rock did a skit about that. . .

. . .where he talks about how white folks are afraid to sing along with rap songs that use the word but when they are in private they scream it. Its pretty funny.

But you raise a good point that there is no good or easy answer for. There is a lot of great artistic work that features the n-word, what do we do with it?

I'm not sure how I feel about folks singing along with song that uses it, repeat a poem that uses it, etc. But I'm confident that we don't dump that shit.

NWA was one of the most important rap groups of all time.

[Romulox]

33. Real question: How do you feel about me "bumpin'" a song with the word in my car?

(white dude)

:shrug:

[wndycty]

34. I don't have a problem with it. . .

. . .and I don't have a problem with you singing along, however I have confidence that just because you like a song with it doesn't mean you think you can walk around using it in conversation, right?

[Romulox]

36. There was no hidden message intended.

I don't use the term in conversation. Ever. But I love (mostly classic) hip hop. The term comes up--frequently.

[superduperfarleft]

43. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx6216M9LSw

(2pac fan here, so it's all in good fun.)

[Romulox]

68. Love that movie/resemble that character.

I'm not too gangsta, but I do like me some Biggie. :thumbsup:

[blondeatlast]

39. "This is not about political correctness, it is about common decency. Why would anyone think its

alright to use words that might be offensive to a particular group?"

Political correctness is a tool by which common decency is eroded to nothingness and mock-worthy. Great post, wndycty. I just broke up with a guy because he used that word that this about-as-white-as-it-gets gal finds as vulgar as any on the planet--and then excused it by saying that '"they" call themselves that all the time.'

He was stunned--and I was quite proud of myself.

[mzteris]

81. actually you just illustrated the opposite

of what the OP said.

[wndycty]

89. Really, as the OP I didn't read it that way

:kick:

[mzteris]

92. I'm not sure I trust your judgement. n/t

[wndycty]

110. Obviously I don't need or at this point want your validation

:kick:

[Orsino]

40. Some people love to pretend, disingenuously, that words have only one meaning apiece.

Adults should know that the meanings of words can change in context, or from moment to moment, or depending on who uses them.

Decrying this as unfair is silly. Or a lie, again depending on context.

[madmom]

41. My very close group of friends consist of

a couple Mexican ladies, several African American ladies, and a couple Italian American ladies. When we are together doing whatever we tell and use racial slurs jokingly with each other (we know it is only meant in jest) None of us have had a problem with it so far because we KNOW we are joking and we are friends. If someone who is NOT a friends would say the same I'm sure it would be an entirely different story. Why? Because the non-friend usually uses it to cause pain, friends to not.

[wndycty]

42. Bingo. . .

:kick:

[Catherina]

46. Recommended. Honest assessment of me and my friends too. n/t

[asdjrocky]

48. I understand pretty much everything you've said.

I'm a white guy who grew up in a mostly black neighborhood, went to mostly black schools, and had mostly black friends. I've been called the word, funny as it may seem, as a term of affection by more than one person. To me, growing up, when Tay, or Jeffery or Orlando called me that they were saying, you belong, you're one of us. And yes, I've used the word, not often, but I think that people that have real objections to it don't understand the neighborhoods some of us come from.

Where I live, now back in my home town, race and words are not such a big deal but in a funny way they are also with us daily. We joke about it, and we understand it far better than the people that live in the very white north end of town. Here, back in my old neighborhood, I'm often called cracker, or oakie, sometimes hippie since I've let my hair grow. And yeah, good friends, old friends that are African American often call me the n-word when they see me. Am I to tell them that is wrong?

The first time I really remember being offended in any way by the use, was when I left home for the first time as a 17 year old boy and I heard so white guy use it who had picked me up hitchhiking. He was old and mean and I was making my way through Nevada, and there was no tenderness in his voice, only hate. I actually got out in Winnemucca rather than ride another mile with that guy. Have you ever been in Winnemucca? I learned the mean use of the word when I left home, and I told people often they were wrong to use a word as a weapon against a whole group of people.

I guess my point is, the word has more than one meaning, for many people, and some folks will never get that.

[wndycty]

50. Yup. . .

. . .and that is why I didn't say non Black folks could never use it, because there are so many exceptions to the rule. The key is knowing the negative impact of the word and understanding what is acceptable and context is so important.

[asdjrocky]

51. Lol, maybe it's not as black and white as people want to make it. nt

[vanbean]

52. Wndct;y, you got me thinking about something.

The n-word used to be acceptable (my daughter has got me re-reading Huck Finn) or at least in general use. When do you think (about when anyway) this changed? Before the '60's? Have you ever pondered that? Good post, BTW.

[wndycty]

57. I would assume it shifted with the Civil Rights movement

:kick:

[hedgehog]

54. Windycity - I agree with you completely - let me offer an example in your support.

I know a lot of older Italian Americans who greet each other with phrases such as "How ya doin, you old wop!" They can call each other "wops", I would be taking my life in my hands if I did so. The same applies to terms such as "cracker", "hillbilly", "polack", "hunky" (no, not "honky", "hunky" is a term for Slavs). For some reason, people in my ethnic group can refer to themselves as "micks" and don't seem to take offense if others use the term, but that seems to be the exception to the rule.

[wndycty]

56. Thanks and look at this fucking doozy

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9052085&mesg_id=9057123

[retread]

63. No explanation is necessary. People here either get it or they don't get it. There are

those who get it but deny, thereby avoiding a critical self-examination.

[wndycty]

65. Yup they sure are in denial

:kick:

[Drale]

69. Even

if it became socially acceptable for anyone to "drop the n word" I dont think I would ever feel comfortable saying it.

[political_Dem]

72. It's all about self-respect.

If people respect themselves and others, they would not use racial slurs to describe themselves or others.

Yes, I know that comedians and musicians use the word figuratively in their performance.

But at the same time, whenever I hear someone use the word I think about what my parents and older relatives suffered ( and still do in many ways) in the South. It breaks my heart to know that a racist treated not only the people I love in such a terrible manner, but others like them in horrific ways.

To me, it is a word of enslavement, violence and dehumanization. That's why I won't use it. All decent people deserve honor, care and respect.

[bliss_eternal]

75. exactly....!

words have power. :) when we respect ourselves, we are less likely to utilize oppressive language.

quote:
To me, it is a word of enslavement, violence and dehumanization. That's why I won't use it.

[wndycty]

77. I agree with your stance for yourself but don't assume that those of us with a different. . .

. . .perspective lack self respect or respect for others.

We all bring different perspectives to this discussion, even within the Black community. I think what is lost in this discussion is my defense of the "double standard" not whether or not we should be using it. While I acknowledge using the word and embracing the "double standard" that would allow for African Americans to say it and others not to say it, I am not encouraging anyone to use it or condemn folks who don't use it.

[bliss_eternal]

79. .............

my only issue is when this discussion moves to the public arena.
what people do in their private lives, among their own is their business, imo.

which is why i feel the comedian's, rapper's, etc. use (and their defense) is, in and of itself problematic, for me at least. other's mileage (and thoughts) may vary, of course. ;)

[political_Dem]

83. I understand. I apologize if you thought my comments were accusatory. :(

My personal feelings are that I would not use it because I feel strongly about respecting people. I also have enough self-respect to not use any language that I would feel humiliated and belittled by. The n-word, to me, is rather demeaning. Its history is laden with making sure "black folks know their place". Essentially, that is sickening.

However, there are folks that I know who have a take similar to yours. I also agree with disenfranchised groups in society taking derogatory words back in order to bring "truth to power". Ultimately, I do not want to play the "word police". I won't stop anyone from using their First Amendment rights. I accept that there are people out there who don't share my feelings in regard to this word.

However, I feel that it is used in bad taste because it is a word that has a lot of baggage attached. After witnessing the corrosive effects of the n-word in a plethora of situations, it is better to focus on empowerment and social justice in terms of human and civil rights.

[wndycty]

90. If the word was used less and less I wouldn't have a problem. . .

. . .we are in agreement there.

Given the fact that many of my immediate friends are now white I don't use it, but when I get together with my college or high school boys its a different story.

If no comedian, musician, etc. ever used it again I would not have a problem, but if an old Richard Pryor routine is playing I don't want it edited out.

[mzteris]

85. a word of enslavement, violence and dehumanization

so why would ANYONE condone the use of it by any person of any color, stations, situation, race, creed, sexual orientation or religion - use the damn word?!?!

It is an absolutely horrendous word and heaven help the person who EVER EVER EVER uses it towards my son. I don't care what color they are or who they are, I will kick their ass.

[wndycty]

93. So am I going to hell?

Is that what you are saying?

[mzteris]

96. I don't believe in hell -

but supporting the use of this word by anyone is surely evil, imo.

[LanternWaste]

78. It was the first time I'd ever heard the term "jarhead."

My oldest brother's best friend was a Marine in the early-mid 1980s. He came in on leave one week and stayed with him for a few days. I came over one evening and we all had some drinks, were cutting up and laughing. It was the first time I'd ever heard the term "jarhead."

Some time later, another friend (the Marine's older brother and an ex-Marine himself) came over and joined in. More drinking. More laughing and more curse words I'd never heard before. This is when the Marine and the ex-Marine started insulting each other in a good natured fashion. They began calling each of other "Jarhead" and a few other sobriquets I can't remember.

Being an 18 year old who knew everything, I joined in and called one or the other "jarhead." Just once. The room went deathly quiet and all eyes were on me. I knew I did something wrong, but I didn't know quite what.

"What? What's the problem?" I asked. Brother's friend replied, "you never, ever call a Marine a jarhead unless you're ready to eat through a straw for the next three months."

"I don't understand... you guys have been using it all night long. What's the problem?"

"We earned the right to say it... you didn't. Besides, when we use it there's a difference in meaning than when you use it. You used it to insult me, right?"

"Well, yeah... but I was just playing. You guys know that, right?"'

"We know it. And you know it. But what happens when you come across a Marine who doesn't know it?"

"I spend three months eating Jell-O through a straw?"

"Yup."


It's one of those little lessons that stayed with me for a long, long time. Through camaraderie, shared suffering, difficult team work, adverse conditions, and a sense of brotherhood they earned the right to say it. I never have.

So I don't.

[mzteris]

82. Everyone here - PLEASE WATCH THIS VIDEO!

Call me a Ni@@a now!!! : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H8yp7VQ3ZY

[wndycty]

87. We have seen it and while its beautiful and touching it does not address this thread. . .

. . .which is about the double standard not the appropriateness of the word.

Nice try though, it was posted up thread already.

The kid makes a good point, which I don't dismiss but it doesn't address the double standard.

One can deem that no one should use the word, but also pivot and say "however when the word is used there is a difference."

[mzteris]

95. it most certainly addresses how INAPPROPRIATE that word is

for use by ANY. ONE. And it is ESPECIALLY directed to those IN the African American Community!

I want to make damn sure people see it. I think it makes a much better point than whatever it is you're trying to pull here.

[wndycty]

99. Hey play it and play it loud. I have watched it TEN TIMES and it hasn't changed my opinion. . .

. . .maybe because my experience is first hand you know BECAUSE I AM A BLACK MAN!

As I have said. There are numerous Black folks who share the opinion of the young man in this video and I respect them. Many of these same Black folks who don't ever want the word spoken again also go so far as to make the distinction that is the basis of the "double standard" I defended in the OP.

This thread is not about the appropriateness of the word, this thread is about the "double standard" and why it exists.

I'm however enjoying seeing you getting so worked up about this.

[mzteris]

102. I don't care if you're f'ing GREEN!

You don't get a PASS because you're Black. The word is WRONG. Period. Even a child knows that. What is wrong with you?

You are one sick puppy - you lare "enjoying seeing me getting so worked up?" WTF is that, exactly? Please, do share what is so gd funny about the fact that I think this heinous word should be washed from the language.

[wndycty]

111. I'm a sick puppy? Really? Do tell. . .

. . .this should be fun.

[chrisa]

84. Normal white folks don't even think about this because they have no desire to use the word.

I have to laugh at the white commentators whining on the TV about it. Why would they want to use that word in the first place?

[mzteris]

86. here's the thing, crisa -

I don't want to use it and I don't want ANYONE to EVER use it.

Please watch the video I posted for a POV from the black community on this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H8yp7VQ3ZY

[wndycty]

97. Its A POV not the only POV and I don't dismiss the kids point. . .

. . .I don't believe my point is contrary to his.

But have fun trying to refute me.

[mzteris]

100. I can and have refuted you - the use of this word is atrocious

no matter how much you try and sugar coat it. Only ignorant individuals will cling to a word that denigrates an entire race of people. Again, I suggest you watch some little boy try and explain it to you. I don't know how much more one can dumb it down for you. The word is VILE and should not be used by any one of any color. I can not for the life of me understand why you are supporting the use of a word that is so insulting and dehumanizing and ignorant and hateful and vile and UGLY. Why would you do that? What is wrong with you? What deepset issues are there that you can't let go of the word? What is that causes you to "laugh gleefully" at a word designed to hurt others.

[wndycty]

103. So now I am ignorant? So you want me to watch the video for an ELEVENTH TIME. . .

. . .I already told you I don't take issue with a GOD DAMNED WORD HE SAID, or can you not read.

Laugh gleefully? Not at the mere mention of the word, but if a Black comedian or hell even George Carlin uses in a joke that is fun you bet I'm gonna laugh and not even feel bad about it.

[mzteris]

105. keep watching until you understand it.

Then if you "don't take issue" - then why would you continue to condone it's usage and even - as you stated - use it yourself?

[wndycty]

107. Why is it important to you that when my college friends and I get together . . .

. . .outside of ear shot of children or others we must refrain from using that word?

Why is it important to you that I disown my love of NWA?

Why is it important to you that I don't laugh at Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, Dave Chappelle, Richard Pryor, Bernie Mac, Chris Tucker, Martin Lawrence, Robin Harris, Joe Torre, etc. skit that uses it?

Why is it that I am not allowed to dance to Curtis Mayfield's "Pusherman" which use it in the chorus?

Why is it I am not allowed to read or recommend the book by Dick Gregory that is titled the N-word?

I really appreciate that kid, I think he will be a future leader, I am proud of him and hopefully he can keep that word out of his life, but why should it not be part of mine if it has been for so long?

[JoePhilly]

106. wndycty ... the right wing is playing a game here ....

Forget that some African Americans use the N-word. Forget that YOU use use it privately with certain friends.

I'm a white guy, mid 40s, and I also hear that word "privately" in some groups.

The real issue is WHY anyone uses that word.

Being a white guy, I can tell you that those whites who are upset that blacks can use that word, are full of shit.

Whites who want to be able to use that word want to be able to use it for a reason. That word has POWER for a white person (usually a white man) against a black person (usually a black man).

That one word, back in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, was used to DIMINISH any black person. POW!!! In any situation where a white person and a black person meet, that word could be used to shift the playing field. Shut up N****R! .... POW, game over!

Racists whites are PISSED that they can no longer leverage that word. They LOST that power.

And so, they now attempt to find a way to use that word again.

And so, I would suggest that the question is not whether or not you, or other African Americans ever use that word,but rather WHY a white person would argue that they should be FREE to use it too. The question to ask them is ... "When do you want to use that word?" ... "In which context do you want to use it?"

Questions such as these shift the discussion from the abstract argument (which is where they start so they can instigate a race fight), into a concrete discussions as to when this individual (who is claiming that word should be ok) will use it in a meaningful manner.

The fact is that they can not provide a situation in which a white person should be using that term in a straight discussion.

So ... there is no need to defend the use of that word within in parts of the African American community, and, there is no argument for using in within the white community.

[blondeatlast]

116. Well said, JP. nt

[scheming daemons]

109. I get what you are saying.... I'm italian. When a family member or friend calls me "dago", it is

no big deal.

But if some stranger used the word in a derogatory manner toward me, I'd punch him in the dick.

[mkultra]

113. white people cat use it because it will always be an insult

It invokes the old time bigotry that white folks where just "better" than black folks and the speaker is saying he is invoking that old dynamic. Being black kind of nullifys that point.

Additionally, If you call your male friends a punk or a bitch, they usually know its in jest. Black folks rarely use the word to put another brother below them.

[ismnotwasm]

114. The 'N' word?

Would that be nigger? You all so proud of it just spell it out. Personally, I'll leave it to the black community, yourself included, to lay down the final judgments on a word that's caused as much harm as that one.

I find it offensive and uncomfortable and trust me, white folks are not using it in a 'nice' way even when singing along with rap songs, unless they have been sheltered from racism.

George Carlin was a wunderkid wordsmith and remains one of my personal hero's. His lamest monologue to me was "rape can be funny" Perhaps, but he didn't hit any high noted with THOSE dumbass jokes either.

Nigger.

Man. I dunno it still sounds pretty fucking offensive to me. Maybe I'll go watch Pulp Fiction again and see if I 'get' it along with the rest of the white folks. I find it interesting that very rarely in this thread was the word was spelled out. I suspect others find it offensive and uncomfortable as well.

[bliss_eternal]

115. ..............

.