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Signs Village Entrance in Kiryas Joel, NY - Dress modestly Maintain Gender Seperation

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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 05:05 PM
Original message
Signs Village Entrance in Kiryas Joel, NY - Dress modestly Maintain Gender Seperation
Edited on Wed Sep-01-10 05:06 PM by RamboLiberal
KIRYAS JOEL, N.Y. (CBS 2) – You may never see a more unusual “Welcome” sign in Orange County.

A sign in Kiryas Joel, the Hasidic Jewish enclave, is evoking mixed reaction.

Congregation Yetev Lev posted signs at the village’s entrance – in both English and Spanish – asking outsiders to cover their legs and arms, use appropriate language and maintain gender separation in public.

“It’s a way of respect,” said one resident.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/31/welcome-to-kiryas-joel-please-dress-accordingly/

IMHO, public property, don't like my dress or don't like couples be close, avert your eyes.
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nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. stuff 'em. n/t
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. When Called On It They Said It Was A "Suggestion" And Not In Any Way Enforceable
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. I lived there in a small town for 2 years.
The Kirya Joel community did not like us gentiles at all. The looks we got :scared: and this was at the local supermarket.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. Perhaps they should buy the town, and wall it in
and not allow "strangers" to wander in & spend money in their community.

problem solved.

If they cannot afford to buy the town, and they don't like the way the town operates, there is probably no law that forbids them from moving & forming their own commune/town/community
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. They should move?
What a curiously disproportionate hostility. And if they were Muslims and not Jews?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. not hostile at all.. If they are the minority in town and they want to impose THEIR
mores on everyone else, it does not seem to me that they are that happy living there:shrug:

Why should everyone else observe religious beliefs they do not ascribe to?

If I go to a synagogue, I certainly observe their practices, but I don't see why I should have to "cover up" to go to a public grocery store because "they" don't like it.. if people want to make sure that no one "offends" their sensibilities or religious beliefs, they have to make adjustments to their own lives. The Amish are a good example of this.. They have chosen to live a certain way, and they isolate themselves to assure it, but they also manage to co-exist in the mainstream world, and I don't think they insist on making everyone be like them.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. they are actually the vast majority of that town and are want to exclude others. also they bleed
Edited on Wed Sep-01-10 06:11 PM by bettyellen
the govt dry by getting all these families on welfare etc. they operate i a similar way as the FDLS mormons do in those Utah and Colorado towns. Build it and try to keep strangers out and get all the govt $$$ and salaries you can for local govt schools etc and run it like a little fifedom. They women breeed and coolect welfare. It;s scary!
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Exactly right!! See my post below for more details.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
33. and the Amish make a lot less use of the pubic, taxpaid amenities that these people do.
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
25. If it was a Muslim community, it probably would have been
burned to the ground at this point.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
31. If they could they would, but their strategy is to make everyone else so uncomfortable they move
Edited on Thu Sep-02-10 02:37 PM by BrklynLiberal
away and leave the area for them to do with as they please.

Their philosophy is "If you don't lie it, YOU move away."
They do not work...Their favorite excuse: god will provide...and it is true, in the form of welfare and other tax supported amenities...paid for by everyone but them. I am sure their garbage is collected, their sewers are working, their water is clean, etc..
and they pay virtually nothing toward the upkeep of their own community..
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. Sorry, a town is not a country club...the signs need to go...n/t
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. They are on private land and were paid for with private money
which is why the ACLU is fine with them.

How would you like someone telling you that a sign on your property, that you paid for, "needed to go"?
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. I can't open the whole thing...so I guess you are ok with them refusing work
to laborers who don't wear long sleeve shirts?
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Even private facilites are not allowed to discriminate..
Edited on Thu Sep-02-10 02:39 PM by BrklynLiberal
and they use PUBLIC water, PUBLIC sewage system, PUBLIC garbage pickup....This is NOT as private community.
They even use taxpayer money to fund a PUBLIC school for their mentally and physically disabled children, which no outside children can attend.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
6. k/r
kicking for an OP in my backyard..
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. We actually do allow people to segregate themselves.
But good luck with them imposing it on anyone else. The Amish don't insist we rent buggies to drive through Lancaster County.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. Yup
That's the difference.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Hassidim here
are an eye-opener for anybody who comes from a part of free America. Three years ago, when I moved here, my lady took me on a drive through New Square, NY, where there is actually a law that requires men and women to walk on opposite sides of the street.

I was quite amazed, I thought we had driven into a foreign country, and I was wondering where the border guards were!

You think NY'ers are concerned about Muslims, well, they're concerned about ultra-traditional Jewish sects, as well.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. The Fundamentalist Islams and Fundamentalist Jews have more in common than they have differences.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. I've noticed that
Subjugation of women, aversion to pork, and the wearing of caps are just the start.
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
24. you forgot the fundamentalist christians
also believe in the subjugation of women and male domination.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. You are absolutely correct. Fundies=Fundies=Fundies no matter what flag they fly
Their similarities are far, far greater than any differences.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. +100. some ultra-orthodox jewish women are adopting veiling, as well.
i bring it up on every burka-hating thread but as yet, no one has commented.

apparently it's only horrific for muslim women in arab countries to veil, not for jewish women in the us.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. As a Jew, I am digusted by the happenings up there.!!!
Their attitude is "if you don't like it, YOU move away"!!

They have overbuilt and over populated the area...Put an incredible strain on the infrastructure..want the taxes of the long time residents to pay for special education for their children...and do not want to pay their fair share of the taxes.

They milk the system for everything they can...It is one of the most poverty stricken communities in the country...no one works and they all have 12 children. They had a special PUBLIC school district created to service only their children who needed special education.
They make me ashamed as well as infuriated.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiryas_Joel,_New_York
Population growth is strong. In 1990, there were 7,400 people in Kiryas Joel; in 2000, 13,100, nearly doubling the population. In 2005, the population had risen to 18,300, a rate of growth suggesting it will double again in the ten years between 2000 and 2010.<5> In 2006, village administrator Gedalye Szegedin stated:
There are three religious tenets that drive our growth: our women don't use birth control, they get married young and after they get married, they stay in Kiryas Joel and start a family. Our growth comes simply from the fact that our families have a lot of babies, and we need to build homes to respond to the needs of our community. . . . As each successive generation of women becomes old enough to have children, the number of women of child-bearing age grows exponentially. The number of women who marry each year is the approximate number of new homes needed.<5>
<snip>
Kiryas Joel played a major role in the 2006 Congressional election. The village sits in the 19th Congressional District, represented at that time by Republican Sue Kelly. Village residents had been loyal to Kelly in the past, but in 2006, voters were upset over what they saw as lack of adequate representation from Kelly for the village. In a bloc, Kiryas Joel swung around 2,900 votes to Kelly's Democratic opponent, John Hall in that year's election. The vote in Kiryas Joel was a major reason Hall carried Orange County, as he defeated Kelly in the county by 93 votes
<snip>
Women in Kiryas Joel usually stop working outside the home after the birth of a second child.<5> Most families have only one income and many children. The resulting poverty rate makes a disproportionate number of families in Kiryas Joel eligible for welfare benefits when compared to the rest of the county; and cost of welfare benefits is subsidized by taxes paid county-wide. The New York Times wrote,
“ Because of the sheer size of the families (the average household here has six people, but it is not uncommon for couples to have 8 or 10 children), and because a vast majority of households subsist on only one salary, 62 percent of the local families live below poverty level and rely heavily on public assistance -government welfare-, which is another sore point among those who live in neighboring communities.<5>
<snip>
The unusual lifestyle and growth pattern of Kiryas Joel has led to litigation on a number of fronts. In 1994, the Supreme Court ruled in the case of Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet thatthe Kiryas Joel school district, which covered only the village, was designed in violation of the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment, because the design accommodated one group on the basis of religious affiliation. 512 U.S. 687 (1994). Subsequently, the New York State Legislature established a similar school district in the town that has passed legal muster.<9> Further litigation has resulted over what entity should pay for the education of children with disabilities in Kiryas Joel, and over whether the community's boys must ride buses driven by women.<5>
<snip>
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2009/09/state-and-municipal-politicos.html
Tucked within the Catskill Mountains, the tiny village of Kiryas Joel, N.Y., is best known for its almost exclusively Hasidic Jewish population and sky-high poverty rate.

Kiryas Joel has also this year spent as much of its own money to lobby the federal government -- $140,000 -- as cities exponentially larger, such as Chicago, Dallas and Tucson, Ariz.

how does THAT jive with the fact that 62% of the population live BELOW the poverty level and get public assistance!!!

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://www.vosizneias.com/57838/2010/06/15/kiryas-joel-ny-assessors-crackdown-leads-to-50-properties-off-tax-exemption/

Kiryas Joel, NY - A shopping center, a five-story office building and dozens of other Kiryas Joel properties could lose at least part of their property-tax exemptions as the result of a crackdown by the Town of Monroe assessor’s office.

Fifty parcels with a combined market value of nearly $52 million have been tentatively placed on the town tax rolls and will get their first bills for town and county taxes come January unless they prove their exemptions were warranted.

The properties range widely in value and include homes that claimed exemption as synagogues; apartment complexes for low-income tenants; and the village’s two most conspicuous commercial centers: its bustling shopping strip on Forest Road and the 80,000-square-foot Business Center that opened on Bakertown Road in 2008.

The strip mall has never been taxed since it opened in 1987 because its owners were deemed exempt. The village government owned the property for years until transferring it in 2004 to a real estate arm of the United Talmudical Academy, the religious school system for thousands of children in the Satmar Hasidic community.


http://www.vosizneias.com/27288/2009/02/12/kiryas-joel-ny-63-million-stimulus-aid-for-kj-school-district-would-be-largest-in-region/

Kiryas Joel, NY - The region’s smallest school district will get more federal aid than any other in Orange, Ulster and Sullivan counties under the formulas used to distribute education funding in the impending economic stimulus package.

Excluding the school construction funding that has largely been dropped from the plan, the Kiryas Joel School District, which serves about 280 special-education students and has a roughly $13 million budget this year, will get $6.3 million in stimulus money over two years, according to aid figures provided by Sen. Chuck Schumer’s office.

By comparison, the projected funding totals, minus construction money, for the area’s two largest districts will be $5.5 million for Newburgh, which has an enrollment of roughly 12,230, and $2 million for Monroe-Woodbury, which serves more than 7,500 students.

The explanation for that disparity lies in federal education programs that would drive the funding: Title I, which is for low-income students; and the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, which is for special-education students.

Targeting the aid that way inevitably directs an inordinate share to Kiryas Joel, a school district that exclusively serves special-needs children in a community with high poverty rates.

The Senate version of the stimulus package dropped $20 billion in school construction funding from the House bill and trimmed $40 billion from the $79 billion that would go to states to avoid chopping spending on education and other areas.

The $790 billion compromise plan announced yesterday largely sided with the Senate on those changes, restoring just $4 billion for school construction and $5 billion to the so-called state stabilization funds.


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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. The right-wing religious crazies
as they have gotten more vocal over the past 30 years, have emboldened other radically conservative religious groups.

Witness Kiryas Joel and the FLDS, to name just two ultra-conservative extremist cults exploiting government assistance, draining common tax coffers, and creating voting blocs.

The "quiverfull" cults (this means you too, Jim Bob and Clown Car Wife) also are enabled by the RW religious crazies.

(The Roman Catholic hierarchy is green with envy, I am sure.)
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Good analysis.
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. thanks
and if there is a Hell, I hope that Richard Viguerie rots in it.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. I couldn't agree more wholeheartedly...may he be joined by Frank Luntz.
Edited on Thu Sep-02-10 09:49 AM by BrklynLiberal
edit: Karl Rove and that other little slimeball....Grover Norquist
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. I used to work near the Diamond District in Manhattan
The Hasids were transported to and from their work by school buses (I guess they owned them).

Men in the front, women in the back, a blanket or sheet separating front from the back.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-01-10 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. rofl at the dude with the sidecurls and bluetooth
:P
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
27. Nope. Sorry folks, public property.
They're free to avoid people of the opposite sex, but they're not free to restrict others in their movement like that.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. +1000000000000000000
Edited on Thu Sep-02-10 02:44 PM by BrklynLiberal
They do NOT have private sewage facilities, private water supply and control, private garbage services, private street lighting, private street maintenance, or any other private utilities. They even have a PUBLIC SCHOOL district set up for use only by their own disabled children...funded by taxpayer money. They do not pay for any of it because the surrounding taxpayers have to.
THIS IS ALL PUBLIC PROPERTY
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
34. I used to know someone who gave medical exams in the area
she really hated to go in there: no street signs, no one would give her directions, and of course, she's a she (not to mention a radical feminist activist, which is how I knew her).
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
35. This is the town that set up a gender-segregated public school district
just to educate the disabled kids (of whom there are many, thanks to inbreeding). :eyes: The non-disabled kids, of course, all go to religious school.
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