Opus Dei member is nuts.

[Swede]

Hey,I made that headline up myself.


Sarah is 43, single and celibate — and determined to remain so. Each night she fastens a wire chain, known as a cilice, around her upper thigh.

The device has sharp prongs that dig into the skin and flesh, though generally it


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1308090/Why-does-Opus-Dei-member-Sarah-Cassidy-attach-cilice-leg-day.html#ixzz0yNuGIZuz

[joeybee12]

1. Typos in your headline...

You meant "members are" as in Opus Dei members are nuts...Sarah is probably pretty tame compared to some of them.

[Pisces]

2. Is this celibacy or a form of S&M maturbation???

[eShirl]

5. it's their next best thing to getting up on the cross with you-know-who

[Brickbat]

3. It's "less painful than a bikini wax."

:rofl: So sad that people feel they have to do this.

[formercia]

28. Next time, they should try Duct Tape.

A Duct Tape Brazilian will really get their attention.

[truebrit71]

4. Your OP is redundant..by definition members of that cult are nuts..

..especially the female ones..

Makes as much sense to me as a pro-Col. Sanders chicken...

[cleanhippie]

10. What makes a cult?

From what I can tell, the only difference between a cult and a religion is the size of the congregation.

[Fuzz]

12. +1

[ladjf]

13. I like you definition the difference between cult and religion. nt

[truebrit71]

16. I'll let you in on a little secret..they are one and the same..

..especially in this case..

[superconnected]

35. In this case, yet, but in most cases no. Let's take the Christian religion -

many people in the US say they are Christians but never go to church and don't practice it. :)

There really is a disparity though and it is on how much a cult takes over a persons life.

[cleanhippie]

65. Not going to church or "practicing" religion

does not make one a non- (fill in the blank). Believing, for whatever reason, is enough to equate one with that religion or cult.

[superconnected]

68. Not a cult - look it up. There really is a reason to names cults, cults and be able to

shut them down. Must distinguish the difference.

[cleanhippie]

69. But thats my point!

From my perspective, there IS no difference!

As I said, to me, the only difference between a cult and a religion is the size of the congregation.

[superconnected]

70. cultwatch.org is an excellent site that not only teaches you to spot the difference

but also gives you respect for why there is a difference.

http://www.howcultswork.com/

"
Exclusivism

A normal religious organization would not have any trouble with you moving to another similar organization as long as you stayed in that same religion. Because it is the belief system that matters, not membership in an organization. For example if you were a Christian then you could move from one church to another and still be a Christian.

However cult leaders will tell you can only be "saved" (or can only be successful) in their organization alone. No other organization has the truth, all others miss the mark. So it is not the belief system that decides your future, but it the belief system AND your membership with that particular group. "

Fear and intimidation

"Cult leadership is feared. To disagree with leadership is the same as disagreeing with God. The cult leaders will claim to have direct authority from God to control almost all aspects of your life. If the cult is not a religious group then questioning the leaders or program will still be seen as a sign of rebellion and stupidity.

Guilt, Character Assassination and Breaking Sessions. Guilt will be used to control you. Maybe the reason you're not making money is because you're not "with the programme". Maybe the reason you're not able to convert new recruits is because "your heart is prideful and full of sin". It could never be that the programme isn't working, or those new recruits have valid reasons for not joining. It's always your fault, you are always wrong, and so you must try harder! You will also be made to feel very guilty for disobeying any of the cult's written or unwritten rules.

Character Assassination is used to help create the guilt in you. Character Assassination is a type of false reasoning used by people and groups who have no real arguments. The technical name for Character Assassination is "The Ad hominem Fallacy". This is how it works. Imagine if you will a conversation between two men, Ford and Arthur…

"One plus one equals three", says Ford.
"No I don't think so. You see when I have one thing, and I have another thing, then I have two things not three", replies Arthur.
"I see your point, but what you must realize is that one plus one when calculated in relation to this complex number domain, which I just invented, and then squared by the sum of the ninth tangent in the sequence of the Fibonacci series results in three!", stated Ford triumphantly.

Ok, Ford is wrong, but that is not the point. The point is that Ford tried to answer Arthur's reasoning with more reasoning of his own. This is the healthy way people and groups debate subjects. Now lets see what would have happened if Ford had used Character Assassination…

"Arthur I have been a mathematician longer than you. How dare you disagree with me! You are obviously a very smug and prideful person. I think you are disagreeing with me because you are jealous of me, and to be honest with you Arthur your rebellion has really hurt me and a lot of other people too", stated Ford his face intimidatingly close to Arthur's.

You see Ford didn't answer Arthur's argument, instead he attacked his character. If you are not aware of how Character Assassination works then it is a powerful way to exert control over you. "

[cleanhippie]

72. I can make a reasonable argument that even the most mainstream church

has all of those attributes, thus making it a cult.

[superconnected]

73. No you can't.

On the top, I could too, but if you look further, no you can't.

[cleanhippie]

86. Yes, I can, and have.

[LanternWaste]

83. Based on anecdotal evidence or on objective, peer-reviewed analysis?

"I can make a reasonable argument..."

Based merely on anecdotal evidence, or on objective, peer-reviewed analysis?

[cleanhippie]

87. Observation and research.

Any evidence I provided would have to be testable and verifiable and I would expect any dissent from my conclusion would be based on the same. Thats a fair and level playing field.

[comtec]

85. The catholic church, for all it's flaws, lets people leave freely

as well as it does not demand an isolated existence away from family people CHOOSE to become monks or nuns now a days, and many leave)

The Baptists - bit wacky, also don't make leaving the church difficult (some places are.. um.. special, but we're talking main stream)

As much as I love to bash on religion, this is an argument you can't win.

As far as my beliefs, that is between me and whatever non or real deity that i may or may not have faith in.

[cleanhippie]

88. You don't think that someone renounces their faith that they do not get pressure

and are ostracized from their family and peers?

[comtec]

89. That's very different from religious dogma that states that they MUST never leave

people can and do leave religious or sects all the time, and MOST are not hassled beyond what mothers usually do "oh dear, that smith girl was very nice, have you asked her out?" etc. Or fathers "You know child, your mother has been missing you at church".

nothing dogmatic about staying. peer pressure is one thing, dogmatic obedience is another.

THAT is why your argument (and believe me we are NOT that far apart on this, but logic demands someone take this side) falls apart on such a broad basis.

Are they all cult like? in some ways.
are they ALL cults, no, not even close.

take Unitarians or Episcopals for example.
very liberal, forward minded sect.

Also consider Buddhism. Buddhism is a belief more than a religion (Buddha is the ideal, NOT the god)

When you paint with a brush, i suggest finer strokes.
As my ancient civ teacher said, when I used a similar argument about the interconnectedness of all old religious, he said my idea was right, but it needed more work.

I pass that on to you :)

[cleanhippie]

90. So then the only difference between your view and mine is

the degree of severity? Perhaps your tolerance for that kind of treatment is greater than mine, or perhaps you feel that that kind of treatment is less harmful than what a more extreme group does, but thats it. '

The point is, religions of all flavors, from the most mainstream to the most extreme, ALL can in some way, fit the "requirements" of a cult. Its just that when one is more accepted than another, it somehow ceases to be a cult and becomes a religion.

[comtec]

91. before I give up for the night (sick) please show me how a main stream church fits all the cult sign

Lets say, universalism

how is it like a cult?

(honest curiosity, I am enjoying this debate with you)

[cleanhippie]

93. You got me there.

But as a strong atheist who attends a universalist fellowship, I would argue that universalism is not really a religion (Im sure the leadership would disagree with me), since it really has no dogma, ritual, prayer or the usual trappings associated with a religion (at least the one I go to does not, most of the folks that attend are atheist/agnostic or believe some kind of new age woo. Very few are christians, muslims, jew, etc...)

But you got me with that example, touche'.

I guess I would have to make a distinction on what I see as a religion first, then go from there.

I will admit, that with some mainstream religions, I have to really work to make them fit "cult" status, but I feel that they STILL fall into that category.

[SharonAnn]

61. When they restrict what you read or see and who you talk to. Like Opus Dei.

[LanternWaste]

82. You could try dictionary.com

You could try dictionary.com and type in both words to read differences between the two if it's a sincere lack of knowledge on your part... :shrug:

Otherwise, um... yeah. That was very clever on part....?

[lapfog_1]

6. Well that explains it...

<snip>
"The mortification helps you to keep your passions under control and channel your energy," she explains. Despite Eileen’s devotion to the organisation, others have criticised Opus Dei for its methods of recruitment, which include ‘love bombing’ potential members with affection and praise.

The requirement for recruits to hand over large proportions of their income has also raised concern. (Today, Opus Dei is a huge cash cow for the Roman Catholic church, with tens of millions of pounds-worth of buildings around the world, funded by donations from members.)
<snip>

And to think her parents were worried that she was joining a cult!!!

:sarcasm:

[Warpy]

7. This is all I need to know about this bunch:

"There’s also a subgroup of female numeraries known as ‘assistant members’ who perform the cooking, sewing and cleaning and ‘serve’ the men. Men never serve the women."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1308090/Why-does-Opus-Dei-member-Sarah-Cassidy-attach-cilice-leg-day.html#ixzz0yNw0szhS

You'd think male penitence would consist of at least cleaning up after themselves, but the poor exalted dears can't possibly be expected to do any shitwork, can they?

Instead, they get all the benefits of an indentured servant with none of the messiness of having to marry one.

Any woman who belongs to this organization definitely needs her screws tightened, preferably by a professional.

[izquierdista]

15. A few screws might loosen them up

Sounds to me like they are wound WAY too tight.

[Warpy]

18. Loosen wires, tighten screws

Get your metaphors right.

[molly77]

62. Bet they miss the Inquisitions

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blogslut]

8. Ha!

I used to make cilice bracelets with shameful jeweling on them.

[Sal Minella]

14. Please 'splain "shameful jeweling" -- I need to know . . . n/t

[blogslut]

19. Cilices are considered anti-jewelry

They're supposed to be simple, made from bent wire and plain cord. From my understanding, Cilices, Hairshirts and the like, are about disavowing the material, physical part of existence. One wears a Cilice in order to direct the mind towards the spiritual. Unlike the crazy monk in that Dan Brown book, one doesn't wear a Cilice to the point of drawing blood or even with the intention of inducing pain. Cilices are supposed to be an uncomfortable reminder that the flesh is a burden that distracts the soul from God. In other words, bejeweling a Cilice is terribly sacrilegious. :evilgrin:

[Sal Minella]

23. Great explanation! Thank you!

I want one. For upper arm, with little blood-red teardrop gems dangling on nearly-invisible chains . . . and lapis and emeralds and diamonds in the band. oooo oooo ooooo

An in-joke so "in" that almost nobody would get it!

[blogslut]

25. Well, I am unfamiliar with the in-joke

But I do have some with wee red translucent drop beads. I retired them from my Etsy account because nobody understood them and I decided to go with a happier line of designs. :)

[Sal Minella]

26. That IS the in-joke --

"nobody understood them" -- do you have photos?

I don't know why I am so perversely amused by this!

[blogslut]

27. Here you go

[Sal Minella]

31. Wow! And with a shining BLACK HEART, yet!!!

Is this sized to be a bracelet?

That's an amazing example of art/design, imo.

[blogslut]

33. Yeah

A bracelet.

I saw a photo of a Cilice one day and became obsessed with the design. I think they're cruelly beautiful.

Thanks for the kind words. :hi:

[superconnected]

34. Ah what a lovely torture device - complete with heart too!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking

"In clinical psychology, magical thinking is a condition that causes the patient to experience irrational fear of performing certain acts or having certain thoughts because they assume a correlation with their acts and threatening calamities."

The problem with this "Magical Thinking" is that psychologically hurting yourself is very unhealthy and magical thinkers often impose their own form of magic on others. The article "witch craft is hurting you", out of print, cited how a guy would do 70 on a road where the speed limit was much slower but considered it was safe because he was holding his magic talisman to protect him. The problem was, he was putting everyone on that road in danger and subjecting them to his magical belief.

This article sites more people picking up on this form of self hurt for "suppressing her desires and atoning for sins" which may as well have said, self-flaggelation for thought crimes.

-------------

Correction for this post - I saw the pic and assumed wrongly you were posting the articles' cilices and not one you made for yourself, so I was commenting on their thinking. Yours although spiritual looks kinky!

[blogslut]

40. Well

I didn't make mine because I believe in their original purpose. I made them because I think they're pretty and dangerous and adorning them with baubles defies their intention. In fact, my Cilicelets fit loosely and the barbs are filed smooth - they don't hurt at all. :hi:

[superconnected]

42. Hey, I corrected my post - I didn't read well enough to see it was your own and not

theirs from the article. I apologize and I'm sure you're fine. Great explanation - taking mind of earthly things like flesh. I think they're using it for self-punishment though so what I said doesn't apply to you.

[comtec]

74. That seems to be a common problem for you

reading a post completely.

but it's understandable.

good luck with that

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[superconnected]

39. Hey can you tell us the pronounciation of "Cilice?"

[blogslut]

41. Sillis

:)

EDIT ADD: I gave the wrong pronunciation. I fixed it.

[superconnected]

45. Okay, I was guessing it was like clit somehow.

My mind needs to clean up. I wouldn't have guessed how to pronounce it, thank you!

[Sal Minella]

55. I would have guessed "sah-LEESE."

It would be fun to wear that bracelet and keep checking people's faces to see if anyone recognized the "inspiration" for it --

but then people would wonder why I kept staring at them, so better not . . .

[NeedleCast]

9. I wonder, on their deathbeds if any of these crazy sky daddy worshipers

ever has a moment of clarity where they realize they've wasted their lives. That must suck.

[Warpy]

51. I can tell you none of them ever looks forward to meeting Daddy

because they all feel they fall short of absolute sainthood and are terrified of being judged as failures.

I feel equally sorry for hedonists and ascetics. They're both on the wrong path.

[LanternWaste]

84. I imagine most people believ...

I imagine most people believe every belief system in the world that doesn't fundamental agree with theirs is flawed and "on the wrong path..."

I would guess that's where many of humanities root problems lay.

[Historic NY]

11. Wouldn't been easier to become a nun, cause she is getting none.

[Sal Minella]

22. I would guess that a woman who joins Opus Dei craves more self-degradation

(for whatever reason) than can be found in a normally-functioning convent.

I know nuns who are deeply involved in activities benefiting society and receive their satisfaction from this rather than from self-flagellation and the sort of self-degrading behavior Warpy describes.

[Warpy]

52. I don't think nuns do the self flagellation thing any more.

Took all the fun out of it for ascetics and other masochists.

[Mz Pip]

17. Kooks

That's how my Roman Catholic priest cousin referred to the Opus Dei crowd. "They're a bunch of kooks."

[madmom]

20. Sounds to me like someone put some wrong ideas into her head. When she said..

"But I changed to an all-girls school to do my A-levels, and suddenly there was complete freedom. You didn’t have to have a boyfriend or flirt all the time."

I taught my daughter from an early age that you don't HAVE to have a boyfriend or husband. You can do anything you want as long as it's legal, without either, IF that's how you want it. Today she is 26 and single, and more interested in finishing her schooling and doing things SHE wants to do rather than "having a boyfriend and flirting all the time". If that's what you want fine, but if not....
and you don't need to join a cult to be true to yourself.

[TheWraith]

21. Redundant sentence is redundant! nt

[KamaAina]

24. And she'd have to go into the cult's NYC headquarters through a separate door

that's right, class, the Opus Dei headquarters in NYC's Murray Hill neighborhood was built, quite recently, with separate men's and women's entrances.

But hey, at least it's a couple of miles uptown from Ground Zero. :sarcasm:

[Cleita]

29. Well guess who else are members,

Mel Gibson and the late Robert Novak. I'm sure with some digging we would find a nest of dysfunctional members. Who else would be attracted to this cult?

[Sal Minella]

30. Isn't Fat Tony Scalia a member? Think I read that somewhere.

Prolly read it on the innerwebs, so it has to be true.

[glitch]

59. Thomas too. And just from the look of them Roberts and Scalito have to be.

There's a bulge around their eyes that looks like at the least they're wearing twisted knickers.

[superconnected]

32. Ah magical thinking. It's fine until it hurts people.

Physically hurting herself even if it doesn't draw blood is still mentally unhealthy.

[Sal Minella]

37. But mortification of the flesh = sanctification of the spirit.

Can't help but wonder how many priests told how many altar boys that the pain was good for them, God would love them more for their suffering.

[superconnected]

49. Even the term "Mortification" is disturbing. I mean sounds mobid - wonder if they think they're

getting a better spot in Heaven for it.

I had never heard of that term before I read this article.

[DireStrike]

76. I think the original point was to distract yourself from impure thoughts

Occasionally you get one seriously deranged guy who can't control his thoughts, is terrified he'll go to hell for it, and yet has received a good education that allows him to write about his "religious views". A few years down the road it has turned into a token punishment for existing.

[BolivarianHero]

38. Tony Blair appointed one of these fuckwads to be in charge of LGBT rights...

Only morons vote Labour.

[COLGATE4]

43. You've got to be nuts to be Opus Dei n/t

[msanthrope]

44. Too bad no one ever introduced her to BDSM--she'd be a natural. n/t

[superconnected]

47. hahahahahaha

:rofl:

[msanthrope]

50. Seriously--One good encounter, with the pain she craves?

She's be a happier person.

[Radical Activist]

46. It's sad how deeply psychologically damaged these women must be.

And the men too.

[hedgehog]

48. You know this is an example of Roman contempt for the body.

This attitude has been a cancer at the heart of Christianity for centuries. We need more of an Irish influence, with an appreciation that all Creation is a good thing!

[JerseygirlCT]

53. {{{{{{shudder}}}}}}} nt

[ThomWV]

54. You silly bastards don't realize you are just being led down a different path

because all this horseshit is is religious intolerance, no more and no less. It is subtle propaganda against the Catholic Church and its been going on since the asswipe nailed his demands to the church house door.

[Sal Minella]

56. No "subtle propaganda" necessary.

The simple facts in the history of the Church of Rome render any propaganda superfluous, imo.

[TexasObserver]

58. The Catholic Church deserves all the disdain it garners, and more.

Calling Martin Luther an "asswipe" suggests you don't know history. The things about which he complained were part of the terrible state of the RCC at the time he posted them.

The RCC has long been a tool of fascism in the world, a paramour of powerful, anti democratic forces.

We tolerate this religion more than it should be tolerated. It engaged in a massive criminal conspiracy for decades, hiding thousands of cases of child rape, and yet, it still has defenders.

[Goblinmonger]

75. I'll call Martin Luther an "asswipe" for the whole

boil Jews in their own blood attitude he had. Sure he had problems with the shit the Catholic church was pulling but he was still a douche in his own right.

[TexasObserver]

94. At least he wasn't a Nazi or a pedophile.

Why does a church beset with such problems in the present worry about the "heretic" who created what most of the world now consider to be Christianity?



FYI: I've always liked Otis Day, for what that's worth.

[h8okra]

77. While Martin Luther had real issues with the

Church in Rome what he created is now besot with ideology that is as repugnant and divisive as any before it. IMHO

[Sal Minella]

64. It just occurred to me --

Does calling Martin Luther an "asswipe" constitute religious tolerance in your world?

[TexasObserver]

57. Opus Dei is a bunch of nuts, and she's just one of them.

These people have a distorted, ridiculous view of good, evil and their place in the world. One more variety of religious quack, worshipping their own delusions and manufactured rituals. There is nothing godly about her, Opus Dei, or any of their absurd beliefs.

Quacks.

[Sheepshank]

60. I didn't realize that this was the best god could come up with

...to help curb desires and passions. I figured he'd be more creative and kind than that.

[blondeatlast]

71. Oh, I think S/He was quite clever. You and I know that Opus Dei

are simply indulging BDSM fantasies--and so does S/He.

[Sheepshank]

78. ahhhhh so god's secret plan

is actually to supply abundant and varying outlets for sexual, fantastical desires. S/he truly is one great dude/dudette.

[blondeatlast]

92. And having a good laugh at Opus Dei's expense as well.

I want that job!

[rucky]

63. Are there any loofahs or falafels involved in this celibacistic ritual?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

66. This is the subject line.

This is the message.

I will now hit post message.

[mike r]

67. Are there virgin men waiting for them in heaven or what?

Oh well, whatever rocks their boat.

[Odin2005]

80. I suspect that most of these people have severe OCD.

They torture themselves because they can't get "impure thoughts" out of their heads.

[fascisthunter]

81. good guess... I was thinking the same thing

talk about living in a hell, not for being a person afflicted with OCD, but a person who is that neurotic regarding sex and sexuality.

[TK421]

95. I guess the words "not interested" have lost all power n/t