Swing sets removed at some W.Va. schools

[The Northerner]

CHARLESTON, W.Va. – Elementary school playgrounds in one West Virginia county are losing their swing sets.

Swings are being removed from Cabell County schools in southern West Virginia in part because of lawsuits over injuries.

Cabell County schools safety manager Tim Stewart said on Wednesday that a lot of parents are accusing him of being un-American, but he says the cost of maintaining a safe surface is too expensive.

Stewart says a lawsuit in the past year involved a youngster who broke his arm jumping off a swing like Superman. It was settled for $20,000.

Other equipment such as monkey bars will remain. Stewart says the schools are able to maintain the proper protection underneath them.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100901/ap_on_fe_st/us_odd_swing_sets_removed_1

[Winterblues]

1. Sad

Greed factor is strong in America...

[sinkingfeeling]

2. Yes, I remember when children could play and take risks. If they got hurt, they may have learned

something besides how to sue.

[malaise]

5. I sure remember the fun we had as children

We swung on tree branches - climbed and picked fruit.
I remember us using one branch of a tree in our yard to perform gymnastic feats. Well only one sibling had to have a tooth capped. We'd stand on the fence, swing our arms on the branch and end up hanging by our knees face looking at the ground.

Damn our parents let us live the life.

It was hardly different in the school yard (unless the nuns were watching).

sp.

[jberryhill]

44. I remember when working families had medical insurance or could pay the bill

Unfortunately, they don't and can't.

[MilesColtrane]

3. This is why people hate lawyers.

[sinkingfeeling]

7. It's not the fault of lawyers if the parents are 'sue-happy'.

[MilesColtrane]

12. Yes, but lawyers will take the blame.

And, I think they should share some of the blame for taking a case like this.

[surrealAmerican]

33. If it was your kid, and you couldn't afford the medical bills ...

... you'd probably do the same thing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. Bingo

[KansasVoter]

70. So sue for money just because you can? Even when no one did anything wrong? Wow, dumb!

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. "If it was your kid, and you couldn't afford the medical bills ..."

[ladywnch]

87. a $20,000 broken arm???????

My son had a concussion which resulted in a CT scan along with ER docs, etc and it wasn't anywhere near 20K...even what the insurance paid. Just sayin.....

[proud2BlibKansan]

95. I honestly don't know

But an uninsured kid I know had 6 stitches recently and the bill was $2500. So $20,000 for a broken arm wouldn't surprise me.

[tblue37]

50. I know of one little 6-year-old girl (this was several years ago)

whose parents sued other people at the drop of a hat if anything at all happened to their daughter. If they found a scratch on her arm, if she came home crying because she fell on the sidewalk while rollerskating and skinned her knee, if any other minor bump or injury occurred.

That poor child ended up being incredibly lonely, because none of the children in the neighborhood were allowed to play with her, and she was not allowed to come into anyone's yard. The family was completely isolated and ostracized in the neighborhood, becuase everyone was afraid that they would find some excuse to sue.

[JHB]

9. Is it the lawyers (or the paerents), or...

...is it insurance companies using any excuse to raise liablity insurance rates, and thus the schools removing the excuse to keep their rates from going up?

[CrownPrinceBandar]

10. +100.........

Folks hate lawyers until they need one.

[WolverineDG]

46. or is it mommy & daddy's insurance company that's suing?

I filed a claim for a hospital visit for an infection. I got several letters from my health insurance demanding that I provide information on who was to blame so they could sue. :wtf:

dg

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. A dear friend nearly died

from an infection due to a dirty needle at a clinic. She had well over a half a million dollars in medical expenses and was on IV antibiotics for a year. It was horrific. Her insurance company decided to investigate and had to drop the case because the hospital hadn't saved the culture from her infection. Without the biological evidence, they had no case. The insurance company lawyers told her that it was routine for the hospital to destroy the evidence so they can avoid a lawsuit.

[WolverineDG]

75. I could see it in that particular case but

any reading of the medical records provided in mine would have shown that it was something that just "happened" & no one was at fault. And my bill was nowhere near $500K. they didn't need a statement from me so they could put me in the position of suing myself.

Glad to hear your friend is okay. :)

dg

[blondeatlast]

92. I vote the latter (sez the paralegal). nt

[WolverineDG]

43. Lawyers can't sue if they don't have clients nt

[madrchsod]

4. i sure am glad i was raised in the 50`s.

if we got hurt 95% of the time it was our own dam fault. oh well...

[dixiegrrrrl]

15. Remember when your Mom said

" Don't come crying to me if you kill yourself".

[X_Digger]

28. I heard this in a grocery store once..

Kid was hanging off the grocery cart, and the mother said, "If you fall and break your legs, don't come running to me."

[proteus_lives]

56. My mom: "Don't blame me if you break your fool neck!"

[alphafemale]

69. Mine: Go straight to the bathroom! Don't you dare bleed on my carpet!

:rofl:

And yes I did some amazing things flying from the seats of swings sets.

I was also skilled at the standing long jump from the top of the slide...(this when slides were two stories + tall and metal) And if your aim was off on the jump it was going to hurt.

[pipi_k]

61. hahahahahah

being a kid in those days was...interesting...to say the least...


and yes...my mom said much the same thing

:7

[Golden Raisin]

16. And miraculously most of us

somehow survived to adulthood. At least these kids were outside on the playground and not inside hypnotized/glued to the computer, TV or texting keyboard.

[blueamy66]

29. But now we must have

play dates and no riding of bikes without helmets and parents must watch every move.

Thank God I was a child in the 70s...wouldn't want to be one now.

[pipi_k]

62. No shit, huh....

We ate raw cake batter and cookie dough and didn't worry about salmonella

My mom always gave us baby aspirin when we felt shitty

we rode around on our bicycles without helmets or elbow/knee pads


we played on cheapo backyard swings that came up out of the ground if we swung too high, then we jumped off and landed on our siblings who were standing around all unsuspecting...

damn

it sure was fun.

for real
:)

[ladywnch]

88. I was a child of the 60s and yeah, it was a helluva lot more fun than

what the kids to day have. We'd be gone from sun up till sun down with 2 exceptions......thou shall be home for dinner and thou shall be home (not necessarily inside) by the time the street lights came on.

We'd be charged with child endangerment today if we allowed this!

[Maine-ah]

32. was the same for us in the 70's and 80's

we still had the awesome jungle gyms with pavement underneath, swing sets as well.

I grew up in the sticks...played in the woods...out till dusk when parents started yelling from front porches that it was time to come in.

It's not the same as it used to be unfortunately.

[Posteritatis]

36. Jungle gym I played on in the eighties was *spectacularly* unsafe. It was awesome

Inch thick steel bars forming a 3x3x3 grid of cubes with one last cube at the top, sunk into pavement. The first set of bars would be about chest height on an average twelve-year-old.

Let's just say it encouraged careful climbing. ;)

[alphafemale]

71. Most of my childhood was in the seventies

My kids engaged in quite a bit of active adventurous play. But it was almost as if it had to be actively encouraged with most neighborhood kids, rather than the way it came naturally to us as kids.

Bruises heal. Cowardice and sloth last a lifetime.

[Brickbat]

6. Effing lawyers.

[northernlights]

8. the school should countersue the parents

for failing to fully encase their little precious in bubblewrap and body armor.

What a bunch of freakin' morons parents are these days. (shakes head in disgust....)

[uncommon]

14. To be fair, most parents are not this ridiculous.

Myself included.

[Posteritatis]

37. The ideal would be a combination of bubblewrap/body armor *and* oldschool playgrounds

Get me confident that it would take more to cause a proper injury on that stuff and oh the fun I would have with my newly increased tensile strength...

[AtomicKitten]

11. "safe surface"

My Catholic grade school had concrete underneath the swings and jungle gyms that led to broken bones, stitches, and tears.

[uncommon]

13. The cost of a safe surface is too expensive? Wood chips? Sand?

That's what we have at almost all of the playgrounds here and it works just fine.

This is ridiculous.

[Xithras]

17. Nope, can't use sand.

Doesn't compress well. There have been successful suits claiming that sand is an unsafe material for playgrounds. As for wood chips, a federal district court recently ruled that they violate the ADA because you can't operate a wheelchair in them. Schools here in California are ripping out sandboxes and wood chip boxes and are instead installing this foam-mat material that has to be replaced every few years.

[uncommon]

23. For crying out loud - this may come out sounding cold but

you can't make everything goddamn handicapped accessible. It sucks to be in a wheelchair. Why make it suck that much for EVERYONE?

Ugh.

[SoCalDem]

18. wood chips probably have splinters & maybe formaldehyde

and sand would be create a giant catbox, or would be a magnet for insects.

Unfortunately in our current time, there are people everywhere who look everywhere for a reason to sue over some danger, perceived or real.

Lots of people realized that the threat of a lawsuit is often enough to "get a check". It's similar to the threat of a filibuster in the senate....all that's necessary is to SAY you're going to sue, and school districts will often settle. With so many families financially over-burdened, it's not hard to see why this stuff happens so much.

We had asphalt & dirt almost as hard as asphalt, and we had the occasional fall, but then we also had a school nurse who would bandage your "ow-ieee" and send you back to class.

[Posteritatis]

35. The playgrounds I grew up around used this strange stuff.. "grass," I think they called it. (nt)

[Scout]

19. how about instead of that, the STUPID kids stop jumping out of the swings

like "Superman" and swing in them?

nah, too unreasonable, it would stifle the poor youngsters... :eyes:

[Codeine]

21. Kids have alway jumped from the swings.

We certainly did, and got banged up in the process. Getting banged up is a normal and important part of childhood development. I hesitate to see how the current generation of coddled and swaddled precious little shits will turn out as adults.

[Scout]

27. i did too, on occasion ... and if i broke my arm doing it, my parents wouldn't

have sued the school... they'd have told me "maybe you will learn not to pull stupid stunts like that in the future."

[jberryhill]

45. How would your parents pay the medical bill?

Just curious.

[dixiegrrrrl]

49. Back then medical bills were affordable.

When I was young and married and had small kids, we had no insurance.
We paid the dr for the scratches and cuts and stitches by check.
Average blue collar salary, hubby worked, I stayed at home with the kids.

All pre 70's, mind you.I never heard of families losing their home over medical bills.

[jberryhill]

51. So, you bring back 1960's insurance and medical costs, and

...I'll bring back the 1960's playgrounds.

That's the dynamic here.

[snooper2]

89. that's just stupid...I guess you better not leave your house or go into the shower

You know how many ER trips are due to people falling in showers?

Enjoy walking around stinky...

[Pavulon]

66. With money, because they were responsible for their stupid kid.

Not my problem when every asshole decides to sue for every little thing that happens to their children.

Insurance.

[jberryhill]

73. Yeah, INSURANCE, back then more people had it, or could PAY those bills

You are failing to grasp the relevant dynamic.

1. You don't know what happened to that kid or if it was a "little thing".

2. You are absolutely right that more people were in a position to cover moderate medical problems in the 1960's than they are now. The thing is, medical and insurance costs have blown that away. With even the same injury rate, that risk/cost has to find a home somewhere.

[Pavulon]

93. Lawsuits should be last resorts not first reaction.

because people sue for all kinds of stupid shit now restrictions and pointless warnings are everywhere. Easiest example coffee, its fucking hot dumb asses.

[Scout]

79. with wages my dad earned, and with medical insurance

i guarantee you they would not have SUED

they'd have paid $20 a week or something until it was paid off.

like when my sister was badly burned ... they didn't sue anyone, they paid the medical bills....

[jberryhill]

81. I guess one can never be too clear

Wages have not kept pace with the cost of insurance or medical bills.

That's the point.

[Pavulon]

94. So some POS who cant afford a decent suit can skim hes percantage off a go away settlement

that is a better solution? Thank god I live in a state where these guys cant suck so much blood.

[JVS]

55. +1

[Codeine]

20. Good grief. Kids break bones sometimes. They heal.

No possible justification for a twenty thousand dollar payday over a broken fucking arm.

[uncommon]

24. Hell my daughter broke her leg on a playground when she was like 2.5 - we didn't sue the

playground - she got a cast, she thought it was her new hot pink leg, and life went on just fine.

[CBR]

25. Exactly. My brother broke his leg on the merry-go-round in 1st grade.

Somehow my parents managed without the payday.

[Codeine]

34. I completely annihilated my chin

by spinning the merry-go-round really, really fast then letting myself fly off it (inspired by a terrible Lee Majors show called "The Fall Guy"; we all thought we were stuntmen for a while) and landing on unforgiving asphalt instead of the grass at which I was aiming.

Mom's response was something along the lines of "Well, you won't be doing THAT again, will you?" :rofl:

[proteus_lives]

57. I smashed my face open falling from the rings.

Lost two baby teeth and got a face full of stitches.

I survived and was grossing everyone else out with my stitches the next day at school.

[jberryhill]

52. What type of fracture was it, Doctor, and were there any complications?

I'm glad we have someone who knows what the medical case history was.

Can you tell us more?

[david13]

22. This also happened in years passed. But then, slowly, the schools

all began getting swing sets again. Then the injuries and the lawsuits. The lawsuit is based on what the ... JURY ... will give the plaintiff, not what the lawyer says. Usually there are no lawyers on the jury, nor judges, just ... ordinary? citizens, like you and he?
dc

[Quantess]

26. I wonder if the boy who broke his arm had insurance?

The lawsuit reward of 20,000 would probably cover the hospital bill and leave a little extra to pay the attorney.

[uncommon]

30. $20K for a broken arm? Hardly.

Even at the ER that wouldn't be more than $3K. Which is still a lot, but nothing close to the ridiculous settlement.

[Quantess]

38. You are probably right about that, but it's possible it cost a lot more.

My arm, broken at the wrist, cost $22,000 because it needed a plate and screws. That was December 2007.

Most fractures can be set without surgery for a couple thousand. But if surgery is needed, the price goes way up.

[uncommon]

77. Obviously surgery changes the cost - I don't recall any mention of surgery here, but perhaps

there was, in which case the settlement may be reasonable.

[jberryhill]

82. The reason why you don't see a mention of surgery is...

The guy saying it was a "broken arm" is in the school administration.

It's like the "woman who spilled coffee on her lap at McDonald's". If you actually find out what happened to that woman, and what she went through, it is a whole different picture.

[jberryhill]

47. Depends on the actual injury

I doubt this article is a complete medical case history, but you can believe that if you like.

[uncommon]

78. It's not a matter of belief - it is vastly more likely that this was a standard

break that required standard setting and casting and follow-up care than it is that it was catastrophic and required $20K worth of medical treatment.

[jberryhill]

83. Why is that "likely"? Because an employee of the DEFENDANT said so?

Yeah, and "some lady spilled coffee in her lap at McDonalds", right?

[cherokeeprogressive]

31. Hurt? Rub some dirt on it! You want me to GIVE you something to cry about?

Now get back out there and play, crybaby.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. Took them out of our school playgrounds over 20 years ago

Huge liability issue.

[proteus_lives]

53. Too bad for your students.

[Swamp Rat]

41. GOOD!!! BAN ALL OUTSIDE ACTIVITIES!!! .... Think of da chillens!!!

[unblock]

42. amazing that some are nostalgic for an era when schools could shirk responsibility for kids' safety

when i was a kid, the entire playground, jungle gym and swings and slides, was on nice hard asphalt. plenty of injuries all the time, from skinned knees up to and including chipped teeth and broken bones and the occassional concussion. the medical costs of all the injuries were paid by the parents, some of whom were hit hard. the school and the community didn't give a crap and didn't think twice that maybe the school should take some responsibility for seeing to the safety of their students.

now that the cost is properly where it belongs, thanks not only to "rotten lawyers" and "sue-happy parents" but also THE LAW as passed by legislatures across the land and signed by governors across the land and future applied to particular cases by judges and juries across the land. people forget that, OH YEAH, IT'S THE LAW. it's not like some lawyers and victims make this stuff up and it has no basis.

now, since playing on things like swings and such is not only fun but also an important part of a student's development, the proper response of the school is to build swings WITH APPROPRIATE SAFETY, such as signs, careful instruction, soft ground, rubber chips or whatever, and close supervision. if that doesn't happen due to budget constraints, that means the REAL JERKS here are the taxpayers who don't want to cough up enough money for the school to have a proper playground for all the kids.

[jberryhill]

48. People don't get that its a function of how risk and cost are distributed

Those nostalgic for "back in my day, we hit each other with sticks for fun" didn't know or care how their medical bills were paid when they were kids, or how much those bills were.

In a community where it can be assumed that families have decent jobs that actually come with real health insurance, then not too many people are going to be bent out of shape if little Jimmy gets a cut on the playground and needs stitches, etc.

That assumption is now far from valid, but the cost has to go somewhere.

And, yeah, that kid in third grade who was permanently paralyzed in an accident? He kinda disappeared and nobody thought about it much after that.

[TexasObserver]

64. +1

This case may be the result of the family's insurance company pursuing its right to recovery via subrogation. This certainly isn't a case that either the plaintiff or their attorney made any money over.

We cannot know if the facts were bad for the school district, but they may have been. There could have been other incidents, less serious, that were ignored. It's not a liability case simply because someone gets hurt. Defendants don't write checks if they don't think they're exposed to liability.

As you note, when medical costs were much more reasonable, there was no engine for this kind of claims. It is the outrageous medical costs which drive these cases, and those result from a for-profit health care system that is simply out of control and has no effective cost controls imposed upon it.

People who hate these kind of cases would do well to support national health care for all. If medical is covered, the basis for much of these claims disappears.

[jberryhill]

74. Interesting story - you can SEE this physically

I was at a conference in Europe a few months ago, and the conference center was a modern and much vaunted piece of architecture.

The wide main staircase to the entrance led down, and had sharp stone edges and irregularly placed small narrow landings, the edges of which had a drop of several feet. As a piece of sculpture, it was pretty cool, but there was no safe straight path down it. Visual impairment or inattention would easily lead to someone taking a serious tumble.

Because the building was a retrofit of an older structure, there were sometimes irregular surfaces, like a half inch vertical difference, at certain places in the floor of the reception area. People were catching heels and toes on them constantly.

This facility is designed to be used by up to 10,000 people at a time.

So I was chatting with some Europeans outside and I pointed out some of the obvious hazards and explained that there is no way anyone would get away with a public building like that in the US, because it would be lawsuit city.

And of course they expressed their amazement at how Americans are so sue happy.

But, I asked, what happens if you fall down and are paralyzed for the rest of your life? Who pays for your medical care, equipment, rehab, and lost wages!

And, right then, I said, "Oh, don't answer that. I get it."

And they laughed.

I wish more people understood our legal situation is a direct function of the social decisions we have made about how cost and risk are allocated. That's all it is and nothing more.

[TexasObserver]

63. +1

[proteus_lives]

54. This sucks for the kids.

Nanny-statism, law-suits, pills, technology. It's killing childhood.

[JVS]

58. Swings aren't really a good playground toy.

They can be dangerous to both the rider and to children who accidentally walk too close to them they can be used indefinitely and are thus can easily lead to squabbling over access.

[Posteritatis]

90. That applies to every playground toy without exception. Let's just lock the kids inside! (nt)

[JVS]

96. No it doesn't.

It's very hard for a kid to monopolize the monkey bars or a slide. The slide because your turn ends and you get back in line. The monkey bars are hard to monopolize because you either make it across or fail to do so and have to start over. A swing lets you just park your ass and pump your legs for an indefinite period.

[Posteritatis]

97. You must not have spent a lot of time on playgrounds as a kid, then.

And people are banning slides and monkey bars left and right, too. Ridiculous.

[cherokeeprogressive]

59. I think they should put Dodgeball courts in their place.

Nothin' like an invigorating game of Dodgeball.

[Posteritatis]

91. Given that schools are banning tag I imagine dodgeball would lead to arrests. (nt)

[Canuckistanian]

60. Our playgrounds were like war zones

Bloodstains, faceprints, and odd bits of shoe leather and fragments of clothing.

And WE LIKED IT THAT WAY.

And lawyers were kept FAR AWAY from the playground.

[pipi_k]

65. bwahahaha!!! This reminds me of the day...

my son (maybe 12 at the time) came home from playing baseball at the local Boys and Girls club.

In the process of trying to catch a well-hit ball, he slammed his face against a concrete wall.

He was all scraped and bloody...


but happy as a pig in shit


:7

[Canuckistanian]

67. We had so little to worry about as kids

Our moms sent us out of the house in the morning on Saturdays and we didn't return until noon. After lunch, we were off again until a few hours before dark.

They knew we were safe. We had no clue we were in any danger.

And statistically speaking, kids are STILL as safe as we were.

[LWolf]

76. I broke my collar bone when I was 5

falling off the monkey bars. I was hanging upside down by my knees. A little boy climbed up to the top and started chanting, "I see London, I see France..." I grabbed my skirt, slipped, and down I went.

My mom did not sue. She was a single parent with no health insurance, so I suppose she could have, but she just assumed that, unless I was never going to play, injuries would be part of growing up.

[Odin2005]

80. Fuckung lawyers! It's always the fucking lawyers!

:grr:

[jberryhill]

84. Yeah... lawyers... like the LAWYERS fighting Prop 8? Those kinds of people? /nt

[bikebloke]

85. We always jumped out of swings.

Had to see how high and far we could go. You knew you were really flying when your legs were running in the air. The surface was asphalt, so we always had scabby knees. There was a fence around the playground we wanted to fly over, but fell short.

The holy grail of playground challenges was riding a swing a full 360 degrees over the top. No one ever did it, but we tried.

With woods nearby, we'd climb saplings, kick out our feet and ride down like Tarzan. Kids will find their adventures whether on a playground or not.

[Kaleva]

86. We used to play a game...

where some of the boys would be on the swings while the rest of us would run the gauntlet. One didn't want to get hit by a bigger kid such as Buster H. which would send you flying several feet.