this is what i don't want from the Democratic Party

[xchrom]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

Neoliberalism is a market-driven<1> approach to economic and social policy based on neoclassical theories of economics that maximise the role of the private business sector in determining the political and economic priorities of the state.

The term "neoliberalism" has also come into wide use in cultural studies to describe an internationally prevailing ideological paradigm that leads to social, cultural, and political practices and policies that use the language of markets, efficiency, consumer choice, transactional thinking and individual autonomy to shift risk from governments and corporations onto individuals and to extend this kind of market logic into the realm of social and affective relationships.<2>

In the 1970s some Latin American economists began using "neoliberalismo" to designate their program of market-oriented reforms. By the 1990s, however, the term "neoliberalism" had become a pejorative to classical liberal critics, who dismissed it as a catchphrase invented by academic radicals to denigrate the ideas of Milton Friedman and Friedrich von Hayek.<3>

Neo-liberalism first took hold in Chile under Augusto Pinochet (from 1973) and spread, first to Great Britain under Margaret Thatcher (from 1979) and the United States under Ronald Reagan (from 1981).


and this is what i see happening -- from the HCR bill to the wall street bail outs and too much of our current tax codes.

and it's not just in the united states -- this philosophy has strong roots in old socialist europe -- look what's happening to greece and others.

this is progressive -- this isn't liberal -- this ISN'T democratic.
it's something else -- and the party has been deeply fooling around with it since bill clinton.

now i love bill clinton -- and i hate him -- for his direction with nafta, deregulation, etc.

this is the battle -- the fight.

even if you didn't know specifically what it was -- but just had a sense things were wrong -- this is it.

[glitch]

1. What's the technical distinction between neconservative and neoliberal?

Empire with stick vs empire with carrot is my easy distinction, but after seeing the carrot almost completely abandoned, something tells me they are just minor speed variations on the road to neofascism.

[Recursion]

2. "Neoconservative" is vastly overused

It was coined by a guy named Michael Harrington in the 70's to describe people who were pro-civil rights but also hawks. So, people like Irving Kristol, who supported the civil rights movement but also supported the war in Vietnam.

The point was that they were a "new kind of conservative" that weren't socially or even fiscally conservative but did believe in armed intervention, generally against Communism.

Nowadays, particularly on DU, it has lost pretty much all of its original sense. So, eg Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, George W Bush, etc. are not neoconservatives. (Though W was the closest of the 3 to being one.)

[xchrom]

3. well said. nt

[glitch]

5. Thank you :) nt

[Recursion]

6. NP. It's been a pet peeve of mine on this board for a while NT

[strawberryfield]

35. I have always been a little confused by the term "neocon"

I first heard it used back in the early 80s to describe a group of academics - who had previously been self proclaimed Marxists and socialists - but had changed to become advocates of a free market approach to public policy. When the term resurfaced about 10 years ago, I generally associated it with people who supported free market economics and imperialist foreign policy, but were not necessarily in tune with the social policies of far right Christians.

[Recursion]

37. Yeah, I first heard it applied to Fukuyama in the 90s

Though I think he himself rejects that label.

[JVS]

21. They are not related terms.

neoliberal as described above is an economic school of thought.

Neoconservativism is a term describing the re-emergence of Conservativism after the New Deal-great society era. Most neoconservatives advocate neoliberal economic policy. It is just the coincidence of the terms being similar to the divide between liberals and conservatives that typifies the American political landscape.

[Raksha]

30. I don't think there is any actual difference between neoliberalism and neoconservatism.

And if there is I haven't heard it. Neoliberalism seems to be the term most often used in Europe and neoconservatism in the U.S. But both words describe the same critter--namely the political and economic philosophy set forth by the OP.

[Hawkowl]

4. Excellent post.

This is a very good summation of the theoretical underpinnings of Obama's economic policy actions to date.

[xchrom]

7. thanks. i think it's the most important fight we are going to have. nt

[NJmaverick]

8. Get your fresh DU bogeyman here! Get em while they're hot!!

Don' get caught with last season's corporatist bogeyman or worse the DLC bogeyman

[Fumesucker]

11. Some of us are capable of holding more than one bogeyman in our heads at once..

The Republicans are not the only group in the USA trying to drag us down.

[NJmaverick]

12. The problem is too many people are forgetting or ignoring the fact that the GOP

is trying to drag us down. On top of that one needs to be mindful that a house divided against itself tends to fall.

[progressoid]

16. The problem is too many people are forgetting or ignoring the Democrats that act like Republicans

are also dragging us down. On top of that one needs to be mindful that a house divided by DINOs tends to fall.

[Fumesucker]

17. It takes two to be divided..

That's the thing about division, it's not something that one side engages in all by itself.

[Yeshuah Ben Joseph]

25. If you're going to use My quotes

then at least realize who it is that is dividing the house.

For when I said "If Satan cast out Satan then how would his kingdom stand?", it was in the context of the Pharisees accusing Me of being possessed by devils. And would one possessed by devils gain anything by casting out devils?

But the house of the Democratic party is being divided from within, by those who practice policies which are contrary, even sometimes completely the opposite of a traditional Democratic position. The devils are in the house, but this time they are not even pretending to cast out devils. They would rather cast out the angels.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Boy, I'll say.

[readmoreoften]

26. So Neoliberalism doesn't exist? It's just a bogeyman?

Only a tool supporting neoliberalism and the DLC could pretend that opposing them is a "bogeyman." It's a "bogeyman" just like union-busting and globalization. All the "paranoid ravings" of people who've actually read a book or two.

[depakid]

9. K&R

[Recursion]

10. *shrug* markets are good at some things and bad at others

Markets are really good at distributing iPods, for instance. And I don't think anything but the market should be distributing them.

Markets are really bad at distributing interstate highway systems. And I don't think the market should have much say in where those roads get built.

In between iPods and interstates is a big gray area where markets and planning both bring some pros and cons to the table. Neoliberals make the part of that they want determined by markets vs. planning larger than Democrats traditionally wanted it to be. This has pros and cons.

[Radical Activist]

13. Obama has passed MORE regulation and is taking us in a direction away from neoliberalism.

Finance bill, credit card regulation, mortgage and lending regulation. The energy industry is next. The stimulus bill is most certainly not neoliberal. Its odd that you would judge Obama by the bank bailout that passed while Bush was still President. Obama reversed much of the deregulation done by Clinton. So we're moving farther away from neoliberalism.

[county worker]

19. Please!!!!!!! Those bills are watered down because if neoliberalism.

There are none so blind as those who will not see!

[Radical Activist]

22. Watered down by Senate conservatives.

Why misplace blame on Obama?

[Fumesucker]

23. But they were pre-watered down by Obama first..

So you end up with weak tea that is indistinguishable from ditch water.

[Radical Activist]

28. Gosh I wonder if Obama had some reasonable sense of what was likely to pass.

Goddam the armchair strategists around here all know just exactly how everything could have been done better.

Obama pulled Congress to the LEFT of what it otherwise would have done. It's a good think to fucking celebrate.

[Fumesucker]

31. Negotiating 101, ask for more than you're willing to accept..

Some people act like they've never negotiated anything in their fucking lives.

People who walk into a car dealer and pay the asking price are known as "barefoot pilgrims" in the trade, it's not an appellation that conveys respect despite the fact that the car dealers profit handsomely from them.

[Radical Activist]

32. Everything Obama proposed was to the left of what Congress was ever going to pass.

He already adopted your strategy. You really don't get it, do you?

[Fumesucker]

34. I'm the enemy, you need to destroy me..

Forget the Republicans, the *real* enemy is the fucking retarded professional left.

We should all be drug tested and our rainbow pooping unicorns confiscated.

[Radical Activist]

36. You're the one making enemies out of liberal Democrats.

Why don't you call another liberal "DLC" just because he doesn't share you hatred of Obama. Are you really so blind to how destructive that is?

This is you falling for the Republican strategy...

[Fumesucker]

38. I *said* I was the enemy..

Anyone even slightly to the left of Obama is a deadly enemy and should be crushed like the evil spawn of Saul Alinsky they are.

Those to the right of Obama on the other hand are potential Democratic voters who should be graciously wooed and catered to at all costs.

And for the record, I consume no mass media at all beyond the occasional movie which I watch on the only screen I own, my computer so I do not understand how these right wing mind control rays are getting into my brain.

Perhaps I need to get a tin foil hat?

[Radical Activist]

40. I don't know what your twisted issue is

but it has nothing to do with being left of Obama. There are plenty of us on the left who want to expand the progressive coalition and keep things moving in a left direction without demonizing anyone who has slightly different viewpoints. You should try it sometime.

[Fumesucker]

42. You were the one who up a nasty cartoon demonizing those who think differently than yourself..

Even when I agree with you you don't like it.

And now my issues are "twisted". :eyes:

I'm ordering an extra heavy duty tinfoil hat, in fact I'm going to get two of them, clearly the right wing mind control rays are extremely powerful down here in my red state hell.

[Radical Activist]

43. I don't think someone is the "enemy" as you do

just because they have a few dumb ideas about strategy and tactics. The "us v. them" stuff in this thread is all you.

[Fumesucker]

44. Who put up the nasty cartoon?

It certainly wasn't me.

[Radical Activist]

49. You seem to have trouble with the concept

that people can disagree about strategy without being enemies. You should work on that.
Unless what you're saying is that you're here to campaign against Obama no matter what he does, then I would say that does make you an enemy of the progressive movement.

[DireStrike]

46. "Shouldn't you be blaming... conservative democrats?"

And where do conservative democrats come from?

The party's endless machinations against further-left candidates. Obama himself has thrown his support to the more conservative, pro-corporate candidate in primaries several times now. THIS is what really gets my sheep.

So if we can't get progressive legislation because we don't have the votes... and we can't even support progressives in primaries - which would give us house and senate votes - because we don't have the votes... what the hell are you guys proposing we do? Sit down and enjoy the ride?

[county worker]

24. Obama shares in the blame because he did not use the bully pulpit to fight for what he promised

during the campaign. I kept waiting to hear that he arm twisted the Senate into passing a public option but instead I heard about deals with the insurance industry.

[Radical Activist]

29. Maybe you were in a coma but here on planet earth he used the bully pulpit constantly.

I believe what I see with my own eyes, not what some pundit tells me happened.

[county worker]

33. It's called paradigm. We all see the world through our own paradigm.

Truth for you may or may not be the truth. What your eyes see is filtered through the paradigm you've chosen for yourself.

[Radical Activist]

50. My paradigm is supported by observable facts

such as Obama using the bully pulpit and twisting arms in the Senate to get 60 votes for health care and other progressive legislation. I have to wonder what's supporting the paradigm of those who apparently think they're still fighting Bill Clinton.

[readmoreoften]

27. Passing a bill that forces everyone to buy insurance is not "anti-neoliberal"

flip-flopping on NAFTA the day after the primaries is not "anti-neoliberal." Supporting CAFTA and the free trade agreements in Asia is not "anti-neoliberal." Union-busting in education is not "anti-neoliberal."

Arguing that Obama is anti-neoliberal is absurd.

[Recursion]

39. Mandates are *VERY* anti-neo-liberal

That's government planning market outcomes. That's as far from neoliberal as you can get.

[amborin]

15. K&R

[county worker]

18. The reason we did not get real health care reform was because the insurance industry

had to be protected. The vary cause of the problem, the insurance companies, had to remain intact and we could not let a public option compete with them. That is neoliberalsim at work.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. Ironically, the Neo-libs expect you to vote for them because they're "not as bad" as the neo-cons.

I should say, allegedly "not as bad" as the neo-cons because they have a (D) after their names.

[Recursion]

41. Many neoconservatives agree with us non-neoliberals about the economy

Once again: "neoconservative" means "social and fiscal liberal, defense hawk". Irving Kristol. Francis Fukuyama. Robert Kagan. Leo Strauss. People who believe in an activist government. So, not neoliberals.

[Starry Messenger]

45. Yep. They don't care though.

Neoliberalism is bipartisan.

[xchrom]

47. Indeed it is bi-partisan - and a big part of our difficulty. Nt

[tomp]

48. "..maximise the role of the private business sector in determining...

...the political and economic priorities of the state."

when was this not the case in the u.s.? however the dems want to pretend they're for the people,
if you look closely you'll always see they were the OTHER party of big business.