So what do we do to solve the homeless problem?

[Taverner]

There are many things that can be done, at very low cost to the local government.

Tent Cities can be a good solution. They can self patrol. Let these exist and the homeless might have some hope of a place to sleep.

San Francisco has a bunch of old barracks and batteries. say - Battery Davis at Fort Funston. Why not open it up, clean all the junk out, put in lights, and let the homeless live there.

Face it - we are in a dark time in our history getting darker.

For those who have nothing, it would be a low-cost 'something.'

[bobbolink]

1. wow... I guess it was too much to hope that "progressives" would be wiling to fight for HOUSING.

I appreciated your posts in that ugly and ignorant thread.

I am HUGELY disappointed to read these throw-away "suggestions"

I will say to you what I say to others... is that how you would like your mother to live out her days? In tent city? Stuffed in old barracks?

Really?

totally amazing....

[Taverner]

4. Look - I am with you 100% on housing being the ultimate goal

But in this hurtful world - where humans are measured only in their material worth - we can only take solace in baby steps.

If we could get tent cities to give temporary housing - much like the Berkeley one that was out in the esturary a few years ago - or the tent city in Sacramento a few years ago.

Studies show they police themselves - usually better than rich suburbs do. When kids go missing, the homeless usually mobilize to help find the kid ASAP. After a while, everyone knows each other, and bonds form.

They should have full voting rights. They are the ones who face the end of the government 'stick' if you will. They should have a choice in how those laws are implemented.

[bobbolink]

6. I am not a "THEY", and that is the whole problem with your "solution"

You can't see us as the same as YOU.

For 30 years, we accepted shelters as a "solution", which meant the end of pushing for housing.

Now we get ...what... 30, 40, 50 years of Tent Cities as a solution?

I ask again.. is THIS how you want your mother to live out her days?????

Answer that one before more of these fanciful lectures.

[sandnsea]

10. Your President is pushing for housing

See post below.

What will you do to assist in its implementation?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbolink]

42. When people sincerely want to help another group of people, they get to know them, and understand

the true issues and needs of those people. That is an old, but seemingly forgotten, method of "organizing".

Its the elitists who rush in with their own prescritions, not even having any understanding what those prescriptions entail for the people invovled, and when they are corrected, rather than receive it with grace, they yell "FUCK OFF!"

I live in a state where Japanese-Americans were put into tent cities and camps, and it was widely thought that was the best thing to do then. Many of the reasons for rounding up the Japanese-Americans are the same reasons given now for rounding up homeless people and stuffing them into camps.

It was a travesty, and it seems like, as "progressives", we have the need to learn from history. The time comes to examine our own motives, and learn to approach those we claim to "help", and find out what they think about the ideas. To do otherwise is more about our ego than any "help".

And, yes, I am including myself in the "we".

WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER, AND WE HAVE TO LISTEN TO THOSE WE PURPORT TO "HELP".

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[grasswire]

24. what the hell??

"They should have full voting rights" you say??

This implies that you believe that homeless folks *might* not be worthy of citizenship and its obligations and priviliges. You want to make sure they have full voting rights? I ask -- when and by what authority did you think they might LOSE their voting rights?????

Of course homeless people have voting rights. And all the other protections of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Goddam!

I'm sorry. Your motive may be noble. But your understanding is seriously, seriously lacking.

[Taverner]

25. No - this is in response to flvegan's comment that the NIMBYs get pissed at tent cities

All because of their fear that 'they' will vote in an election

THAT is what I'm referring to, thank you

[grasswire]

27. thanks for the clarification

and I apologize for getting hot under the collar!

[handmade34]

28. maybe understanding is not lacking...

I have been homeless and I was not able to get a PO Box, bank account and I had to fight like hell to prove that I could vote. I still have to make effort to vote because I do not have a permanent home... for many homeless it is very difficult to maintain any kind of normality... I don't know if you have ever been homeless but for those that have not experienced it, it can be horrific and devastating... and just having basic rights is not guaranteed

[KamaAina]

50. They do have full voting rights

some give the address of a shelter when registering.

Repuke vote suppression efforts like requiring ID at the polls affect the homeless as well as racial minorities.

[minavasht]

7. I don't know

If the other option for her housing was under a bridge, I'd take the tent city any time.

I'd like to hear your solution to the problem, since you apparently had spent a lot of thought on the subject. What do you propose?

[bobbolink]

11. YOU are the ones making the options slim and none.

YOU know the solution, but you don't want to fight for it.

[minavasht]

18. It was

a fairly simple question - what is your proposal?

In my limited experience 90% of the homeless I've met were hopeless alcoholics. Some of the rest had mental illnesses. I do not believe that they will be able to live a normal live, take care of a household, raise kids and keep jobs. Providing them with a nice house will not change their mentality.

I have seen foreclosed houses where homeless people have broken into and lived in - houses with all the nice furniture and appliances still available. I have seen the feces all around the perfectly operational toilets, I have seen the garbage that was all over the place, I have seen the piles of cigarette buts on the beds they slept on. Oh, and BTW - they still stank.

So assuming that just providing every homeless with a two bedroom house with a single garage and a hybrid car will have a very lasting effect on the majority of them is just plain naive.

Now, one more time, what is your proposal?

[sandnsea]

36. See post #9

You're wrong. Housing First works. With appropriate support. It doesn't work to try to help people with mental health issues when they're still on the street. Turns out, living in a house provides so much serenity and peace of mind that people can focus on their living issues significantly better.

And just an aside, alcoholics can get sober and raise kids and keep jobs. They do it all the time. So do the mentally ill.

Your post is both ignorant of current housing strategies and rather rude to boot.

[minavasht]

53. Hm, I stated my experience

I can assume that some alcoholics can stop drinking. I can assume some of them can change their ways if they have a house provided to them.
But in my limited personal experience I have not seen any evidence this is happening.
So call me rude.

[sandnsea]

66. You've never seen an alcoholic get sober??? n/t

.

[bobbolink]

40. I and others have said over and over and over that HOUSING is the answer.

If you have missed that, I am not surprised, since you have your facts completely wrong.

You can continue to be like the RWers and spread lies, or you can be a responsible "progressive" and learn the true facts.

[Xenotime]

55. Agreed. I think put them up in all of these foreclosed homes.

[Taverner]

16. Exactly- you're with the reality party I see

:) Welcome aboard!

[Count Olaf]

2. There are millions of homes sitting empty- millions of homeless people

The solution is obvious.

Obama can set aside $$, set up a jobs program fixing up homes and turning mcmansions into duplexes, and then offer them to people at reduced cost.

I think there should be an effort made at the Oct 2 protest demanding that something be done to get the millions of homeless people into the millions of empty homes.

[Taverner]

5. That would be a great solution

If we can make it happen - even better

But I am not sure the local Guns and Teabags Chapter will like it.

[bobbolink]

8. If you could get the OCt 2 protest to include homelessness, you would be working a miracle.

It is simply NOT on any "progressive" agenda, and many of us are sick of being left out.

I just got vilified for confronting "peace" people on their lack of action and advocacy on this... so it sounds like you are going the 2nd.. please report on how much protest there was about homelessness, OK?

[dkf]

12. You want the Government to buy up all the foreclosed properties?

Or confiscate them?

If the Government pays full price we can do a huge giveaway to the banks again.

If the Government pays a minimal cost we can depress all the housing values further. So who gets shafted here?

[flvegan]

3. Problem with tent cities (and I've seen it here locally)

is that when it comes time to vote/permit/etc to allow them, the NIMBYs come out of the woodwork. It's hateful how the homeless are treated and viewed here (and elsewhere, but I'm just speaking again locally). I like the idea of tent cities if it helps the homeless. I'd happily vote for one in my area.

[sandnsea]

9. Housing First

Solutions include the basics: jobs that pay enough to afford a place to live, affordable
housing, better access to income and work supports, and expanded access to health and
behavioral health care, including trauma-informed care. Individuals become homeless
because of a shortage of housing, support, and care, but also because the services that do
exist are often fragmented and difficult to access. Better coordination across programs and
services is needed. Mainstream programs need to pay attention to housing stability, focus on
homelessness prevention, and connect people to housing resources.

Rapid re-housing strategies are working for single adults, reducing their stay in shelters and
supporting them to stabilize in housing, connect to care, and employment.

For people experiencing chronic homelessness, the research is clear that permanent
supportive housing using a Housing First approach is the solution.37 There are two models of
supportive housing. Single sites are housing developments or apartment buildings in which
units are designated as supportive housing. In scattered-site programs, participants use rent
subsidies to obtain housing from private landlords and supportive services are provided
through home visits. Services in supportive housing are flexible and primarily focused on the
outcome of housing stability, and include services to address mental health, substance abuse,
health, and employment needs.

http://www.ich.gov/PDF/OpeningDoors_2010_FSPPreventEndHomeless.pdf

[Taverner]

45. If we can pull it off - awesome

Now how do we house everyone?

[sandnsea]

49. That's a 67 page strategy

Did you read it?

Is there one thing in that strategy you can do in your community?

Decide what that one thing is, and then invite all of DU to do the same thing in their community.

That's how you solve a problem.

There are Housing First programs all over the country right now. Make sure that's the model your community is using.

[rustydog]

13. I think it should be treated as an emergency that requires

an emergency response. A gathering of federal, state and local governments to garner resources to do a number of things.
1. supply emergency housing.
2. provide job seeking assistance for those in need.
3. provide mental health counseling for those in need.
4. provide 3 meals a day.
5. provide medical and dental services

It can be done. It will not be cheap and it will not be easy.
There are empty stores, warehouses, schools, development homes sitting empty.

Once we get these people out of sleeping bags along freeway greenways & the back seats of their cars, we need to focus on a long term solution.

JOBS, JOBS, JOBS. they must be created so that these people can get them. we need to train those who have been unemployed too long.

We need to do something IF we are this CHRISTIAN nation the Republican assholes claim it to be.

[Capitalocracy]

15. Don't turn the U.S. into Argentina or Brazil.

Villas, favelas, shantytowns... not a good idea. The marginalization leads to crime and the creation of an irreversible, inescapable class of poverty. The options you've given should be an absolute last resort, and it is absolutely imperative that they only exist during the housing construction process. Otherwise it will turn into an alternate universe where the police can't go without being shot at. It's not pretty.

[bobbolink]

56. Thank you for being sensible and reasonable and sensitive to the needs of people!

Remember, shelters were constructed as temporary, emergency solution. And look where it is now... shelters have become permanent housing, with people bouncing from shelter to shelter, with illness sprouting up where it never was before.

It is time to recognize the the real PROBLEM--- lack of low-income housing and solve the problem.. creating HOUSING.

We now have a surplus of housing and don't need to add to that with a mess of camps all over that will quickly become prison camps. None of these people suggesting this would EVER want any of their relatives treated in this way, but it is so easy to consign strangers who are considered less than to these kind of shameful conditions.

[Capitalocracy]

61. One important lesson from abroad...

(I live in Argentina, stuck here because I married and Argentine woman and don't meet the draconian income requirement for sponsoring my wife's immigration)

The shantytowns here are called "villas", colloquially, but the full name is "villas de emergencia" (emergency shantytowns). They were built as "emergency" housing, but have existed for decades and are continuing to expand, aiding in the separation of this society into rich and poor with nothing inbetween.

[bobbolink]

62. That is exactly what the US has done, and what some here insist on advocating!

We USians already have a glut of "emergency" shelters, and now they want to add to that with shanty towns and prison tent camps. They do NOT understand homelessness, nor do they know homeless people, nor are they willing to actually listen to us.

What you describe is exactly what they are wanting to push to "save" us, and it will be very ugly.

Imagine.. cities are tearng down low-income housing on the claim that it is old and dangerous. And now "progressives" want to go even further down the ladder and put people from those old buildings into tents, and that is where it will end.

Unbelievable!

[applegrove]

17. One solution is to build a few units of low income housing for every new market rent

building that is built. You have to mix the low income housing in with regular apartments.

[bobbolink]

57. Thank you! That is one school of thought, and there are ways to make that a legal requirement for

any development, if people would push for solutions like this, instead of penning people up in pathetic conditions.

:applause:

[applegrove]

59. In Lachine Montreal, near where I lived they were taking down old apartment buildings and putting up

new condos (it is a town on the waterfront). The government made sure to put at least one low income housing bldg there. It is the only way to fly re: homelessness.

[bobbolink]

60. Canadians still have heart. This can be done, and I can't for the life of me understand why USians

would rather put people in prison camp conditions.

Were there one-bedroom units included? I ask because in the US, a single person cannot have a two-bedroom unit.

So, many of these ideas are only for people with children.

If you have a picture or two, it would be good to post it here.


And, thanks again! :hi:

[laughingliberal]

67. Okay, but you're talking about a solution in a civilized nation. We live in America.

:cry:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

19. stop pretending the homeless are a homogeneous group with one-size-fits-all solutions

the "homeless" include everything from the severely mentally ill, to the working poor, to homeless families, to junkies, drunks and criminals.

You can't force a guy who lost his apartment due to unemployment into the same system as a junkie who has been on the streets for decades and expect a satisfactory result for either. Some need as little as fixed address so they can find work - some need to be permanently institutionalized.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. +1

The homeless are a very diverse group and there is no one roof that will cover them all

[handmade34]

22. a voice of reason

your ideas are a start

[rustydog]

47. A lot of anger and frustration here on this topic. There is a solution

But it is not easy and will require a determined commitment from all governmental agencies, civic groups and our great right-to-life christian conservatives, who must believe in the teaching; As you treat the lease among you, you treat Me.

This HAS to be a multi-disciplinary response involving city, state, local govts. civic and charitable organizations meeting and drawing up an emergency response plan.

I would think emergency shelter would be a first consideration. we need to get these people out of parks, friend's basements, the back seat of their cars...where do you house those with psychological issues? where do you house the working homeless, homeless families? Sadly, a tent-city may be a first-step not the ONLY step. it has to be policed and it must provide people with the basics. It beats sleeping under a fucking tree!

They need to bathe, they need doctors, dentists, lawyers in some instances.
Clothing, food. Education access. counseling, therapy etc. This takes coordination and determination to work.

we need to get these people "in the door" first. Then begin the long trek to employment, self-respect, a PERMANENT residence.

For those who cannot make this goal due to psychological, physical or other handicap, we need to fund social service agencies and improve the number and conditions of housing and assistance.

[bobbolink]

63. There is already a GLUT of "emergency shelter" that has become permanent housing.

Some of us have been trying for years to get DUers more conscious of the actual issue of homelessness, but there hasn't been interest in actually learning.

NOW, all of a sudden those who don't know the facts want to start promoting their own "cures".

Truly amazing. Such "liberal" values. :crazy:

[Count Olaf]

20. Are people in denial or something? The homelessness crisis is growing from all walks of life

There are no jobs.

This isn't about the mentally ill or alcoholics.

There are one million homeless school children. Do they matter?

We have people on disability who cannot afford housing because there is not enough low income housing.

There was recently a brawl at a low income housing office where people were fighting just to get on the waiting list.



And then, we have millions of homes that are in foreclosure, falling apart, dragging down neighboring property values...why can't we help the families and the veterans and the disabled people get into these homes? The government just WASTED money handing it out to their banker buddies, the least they could do is help the people they have screwed over with NAFTA/WTO and the rest of their horrible policies.

[leftstreet]

26. +1

Very well said

Welcome to DU!

[HEyHEY]

34. Not from all walks of life, from poor to homeless is about it

And it is about mental health and such because they are often the first types to lose their jobs because their jobs are not often executive positions.

[Skittles]

38. that's the way it used to be

now, people who were solidly middle class are facing homelessness - there's been some stories creeping up about them lately. It's not just jobs, pay and benefits being gutted - they are losing what little social safety net ever existed in America :(

[laughingliberal]

68. True. We know several who have fallen that far in 2 years and we're all but homeless now.

It will be remarkable if we, somehow, still have shelter 6 months from now. And we were considered quite comfortable until the end of 2007.

[Skittles]

37. excellent post, Count Olaf

:thumbsup:

[Lilith Velkor]

70. THIS.

[handmade34]

23. We should be better than

merely beginning with tent cities. Safe, sanitary housing should be available to all and as a country we have the resources if only we had the collective will. Providing housing for all would elevate us as a society and provide jobs for people assisting...

[Glidescube2]

29. Right now the biggest challange

Is keeping 20 million families in their homes. WE NEED A MORATORIUM ON FORECLOSURE!!!

As for the poor souls that have already been thrown out on the streets -- Why can't the government rent back the already foreclosed homes from the banks at a fixed low rate and house homeless families there. The banks will make some money which the feds can force them to loan out so other people can purchase or refinance their homes; Perhaps even some of those already living in rented houses.

[jobycom]

30. Some of you have been asleep for decades if you believe Americans will vote free housing

when they have to pay their own mortgages. This nation is not that compassionate, and it's delusional and mean as shit to say "We won't convert barracks into livable housing systems because we should be putting meth addicts into empty McMansions." That ain't happening, and it's not even a question of whether it should or not. It just ain't, and if you think it is, you might not need to handle sharp objects much, because you haven't learned much about life.

There needs to a way to get homeless people off the streets so they don't die of exposure and heat stroke. Converting barracks or creating temporary mass housing is a good idea for that. Then there needs to be a system for giving people what they really need to get back into the system at whatever level they can. For addicts, that means programs to break addiction and teach a trade or skill. For the disabled mentally ill, that means proper medication and assistance in getting into some form of more permanent housing--monitored or institutional, if need be, but preferably single housing. For those who have lost jobs and the ability to get work, training and education, or even government works programs, and some form of housing with a physical address needs to be found, with an eye to transitioning back into non-government housing. For those with jobs but not the ability to get loans or housing on their own, there are a ton of assistance and buyer programs that could help, and others that could be found.

We need a quick-term solution to keep people from dying in the streets. Some of this can be semi-permanent, some can be emergency shelters for overnight. We need a transitional solution, which helps people find ways to move from the streets back into the job and housing market. We need a permanent solution to help people buy their own housing and take over their own lives, for those who are able, and to move into institutions or institutionalized housing for those who never can. Mostly, we need a realistic attitude. People aren't going to help a meth addict move into a house that's nicer than theirs. Any such plan isn't going to make it through the next election cycle. It needs to be realistic.

There's nothing wrong with the OP's suggestions for an immediate, emergency solution, or even for a permanent system for temporary housing. My city is working on such a plan now, and I know others are, too. It may not go far enough, and it shouldn't be the only part of the solution, but letting people die from heat or cold on the streets because we turn our noses up at inferior solutions is no better than letting them die because we don't give a shit about them.

Everyone should read "The Grapes of Wrath" again to see what happens when we leave such issues to private individuals and local communities that can't afford solutions.

[REP]

65. Very well said

[JVS]

31. Massive surplus housing stock from real-estate crash and you suggest tent cities?

:wtf:

[TygrBright]

32. Build a time machine. Administer depo provera to Nelle Wilson Reagan.

Problem(s) solved.

sourly,
Bright

[HEyHEY]

33. First thing is open proper, humane, mental health facilities....

As well as better access to rehab programs.

[rustydog]

48. You mean like the ones Reagan closed and began the

"surge" in homeless numbers?

[HEyHEY]

64. Yup, that stupid trick caught on in Canada and Australia too

And they are all swimming in people who should be getting proper treatment too

[Odin2005]

35. Give them HOMES. Give them JOBS!

[HEyHEY]

39. There has to be a job, you can't just give people jobs.

That's how you end up with massive labour forces that do nothing.

[L0oniX]

41. Get the sociopaths out of office. n/t

[OhioChick]

43. Bingo! n/t

[slackmaster]

46. ...

[Vinca]

51. Pass a law that says they must buy a house.

That's how we "solved" health care.:sarcasm:

[Capitalocracy]

52. I didn't go there but I was wondering if someone would

:terrorist fist jab: :fistbump:

[SmileyRose]

54. Everything -- whatever it takes one homeless person at a time.

No easy answers.

[Initech]

58. We should incorporate George Carlin's idea and build low-cost housing on golf courses.

[bobbolink]

69. Here's the advantage of "tent cities"... for the cops..

After the attack, Washington moved into St. Petersburg's infamous "tent city," a place where dozens of homeless people congregate inside tents on a small plot of land just outside the downtown business corridor. St. Petersburg homeless advocate Eric Rubin, who used to be homeless himself, said that homeless people created the tent city last year to be a safe zone of mutual protection, with its own democratically elected government and security patrols. "That is what brought it together, people being beat up and murdered," Rubin told the Intelligence Report. "The homeless spontaneously came together for protection, and that's what we're still working toward."

The tent city made headlines in January when local police raided it, slicing tents down with blades while homeless men and women cringed inside. The campers rebuilt. But on March 13, the encampment swarmed with police and contracted workers who broke the city down again. Municipal officials planned to move the campers to a city-run lot where they would be photographed, fingerprinted and wristbanded, then supervised by city officials.


Twice this year, police in St. Petersburg, Fla., tore down a "tent city" that had become a refuge for the area's embattled homeless. Photo by Brentin Mock
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2007/summer/hating-the-homeless