I was sent an anonymous letter re: Glenn Beck letter to the editor

[Green_Lantern]

I wrote. My letter was comparing Glenn Beck to Iranian Shia fundamentalists because both are nationalistic religious fundamentalists. I also added that fundamentalist Islamists follow a Middle Eastern guy with a beard and Glenn Beck follows Jesus, a Middle Eastern guy with a beard.

A day later someone sent me a typed letter without a return address.

It said "Glenn Beck doesn't follow Jesus. He's a Mormon."

As if he's so intelligent and I'm the idiot. Last I heard the official name of the Mormon church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Unless this is one of those nutty Evangelicals who think Mormons aren't real Christians. Glenn Beck is like Dr. Frankenstein, he has created a monster that could easily turn on him for being a Mormon.

[LostinVA]

1. Many Christians do not consider Mormons Christians

Not just Fundies.

[Warpy]

4. They also don't consider Catholics to be real Christians

In fact, they don't consider too many people outside their own churches to be real Christians, defining them very narrowly according to their sect.

Sensible people realize they're deluded fools, pat them on their pointed little heads, and go about their business.

In other words, consider the source and move on.

[hfojvt]

24. that's not nearly as true, nor as logically based

a fundy considers anyone who is not 'born again' to be a non-Christian, no matter what church they belong to.

But among mainline Protestant denominations like Presbyterian, Methodist and UCC there is considerable tolerance of other denominations. You could transfer into any of those churches by being a member in another denomination or a baptist, lutheran, Free Methodist, Nazarene, episcopal or Catholic church.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_crit.htm

The general meetings of the United Methodist Church, and Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and Southern Baptist Convention have stated, in their opinion, the LDS is a denomination that is separate from the Christian religion: The General Conference of the United Methodist Church approved a document on 2000-MAY-10: "Sacramental Faithfulness: Guidelines for Receiving People From the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons)" The document says, in part, that:
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, by self-definition, does not fit within the bounds of the historic, apostolic tradition of Christian faith... explicitly distinction and separateness from the ecumenical community."

[Green_Lantern]

27. doesn't apostolic tradition only exist in Catholicism..

Apostolic succession.

[hfojvt]

31. no, as Presbyterians we trace our roots from Jesus

through the Catholic church to Hus and Luther and, of course, Calvin (but not Hobbes). People who tried to reform the Catholic church but we killed or threatened or kicked out and so started their own denominations. And Lutherans trace to Luther and then back and Moravians to Hus and back, etc.

[Green_Lantern]

34. I always thought it was funny that religions claim to come straight

from God yet councils vote on what beliefs that religion holds.

[Green_Lantern]

5. I know...same with Catholics...I think it's silly

I hate when people define the beliefs of others.

When people say they are Christians I take their word for it.

[hfojvt]

28. that's not the Christian way

"Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." Matthew 7: 21

Historically both Mormons and Protestant church have agreed that Mormons are not Christians.

"Dr. Richard Land, president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, said:
" 'Up until about 30 years ago, Mormons were very emphatic that they weren't Christians'."

"The General Conference of the United Methodist Church approved a document on 2000-MAY-10: "Sacramental Faithfulness: Guidelines for Receiving People From the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons)" The document says, in part, that:

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, by self-definition, does not fit within the bounds of the historic, apostolic tradition of Christian faith... explicitly distinction and separateness from the ecumenical community." "

http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_crit.htm

[Green_Lantern]

29. who cares what Land says...

Mormons are Christian.

[hfojvt]

30. oh, so YOU have decided it is so

because of your vast expertise in all things Christian. Land was not just saying something, he was reporting what Mormons have said themselves, for about a hundred years.

If Mormons think they are Christians now, then why do they still baptize dead people into the Mormon church. Dead people who are known to be members of Protestant churches. Apparently if they call and consider themselves to be Christians, then they also do not consider Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists or Catholics to be Christians.

But that's okay, as long as your mind is already made up, there's no need to try to confuse you with the facts. You said it. You believe it. That settles it.

[H2O Man]

42. There are obviously

factions within the Christian faith. This includes some groups that take it upon themselves to decide that other groups are "not Christian." That is not uncommon in any large religious group. The point our friend is making is not denying that any group is Christian; rather, the point being made -- and correctly so -- is that all the groups who claim to be Christian, are Christian. Their interpretations of the Bible, especially of the gospels, may differ from others, but they are still Christian.

[hfojvt]

48. that's a point that does not hold water

unless you are going to say that the Nazi's are socialists since they put socialism in their name.

And it is not about their interpretation of the Bible. If they only differed from Protestants based on interpretation then it would be less of a stretch to call them Christians. However, they do not just differ in interpretation, but they add an entirely new Holy Book - the Book of Mormon which was written in the 1840s.

You cannot just say "I am a Christian" and have it accepted no matter what you believe, say, or do. Being a Christian means accepting the Gospels just as being a Muslim means accepting the Koran and being a Mormon means accepting the Book of Mormon. Christians accept Moses and Isaiah and Elijah as prophets, but that does not make them Jews. Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet, but that does not make them Christians. In the same way Mormons can accept certain parts of the old testament and the gospels, and that does not make them Christians.

Further, I would submit that Christians, themselves know better about who is or is not a christian. Catholics and many mainline Protestant denominations accept the other groups as being part of the Christian family. There is no such mutual acceptance between Mormons and Protestants and Catholics, although there may be in the future as they ally themselves together over abortion and other social issues.

[Radical Activist]

37. Wow.

Seriously. Believing what this Land guy or any other Southern Baptist leader says about Mormons is about as smart as asking Rush Limbaugh to describe liberalism. Or asking the Klan to write a book on African-American history.

Mormons are not protestants and they say as much. They're a different form of Christianity.

[H2O Man]

43. Right.

No single group should be taken seriously when they attempt to say that another group is not "real" Christians. But, of course, those divisions are what have kept the larger group divided, and continue to keep individuals incapable of reaching the the level of consciousness that the prophet Jesus spoke of as the ultimate goal.

[Vincardog]

2. FOX is news too because it says so in their name. Mormons are not Christians.

[Green_Lantern]

7. sure they are...how are they not Christian?

They believe in the core Christian beliefs.

[notadmblnd]

22. No they don't. They believe in the book of Mormon

they believe that they are the true Israelites, they believe that all men inherit a planet when they die and become gods themselves. Their job is to have many many wives and populate those planets they become gods of. They also believe in magic underwear and that Christ came from south America. I could go on but I have to get to work.

[Green_Lantern]

26. yeah and I'm thinking you're description isn't objective by any means..

They don't believe Jesus came from South America...they believe he appeared to people in America.

The things you're spouting are common misconceptions.

[notadmblnd]

32. OK, what ever you say.

[FreeState]

33. LOL you really don't know what your talking about

And I'm saying that in the kindest possible way.

[notadmblnd]

35. Mormon Beliefs

Please note that these teachings are documented from Mormon writers, not anti-Mormon writers:

1. Book of Mormon
1. The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461.)
2. Devil, the
1. The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192.)
2. Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)
3. God
1. God used to be a man on another planet (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).
2. "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans..." (D&C 130:22).
4. God, becoming a god
1. After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354).
2. "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20).
5. God, many gods
1. There are many gods (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
2. "And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light," (Book of Abraham 4:3).
6. God, mother goddess
1. There is a mother god (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
2. God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).
7. God, Trinity
1. The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).
8. Heaven
1. There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial (Mormon Doctrine, p. 348).
9. Holy Ghost, the
1. The Holy Ghost is a male personage (A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, p. 118; Journal of Discources, vol. 5, p. 179).
10. Jesus
1. "Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
2. "The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).
3. "Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh ..." (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, p. 150).
11. Joseph Smith
1. If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).
12. Pre-existence
1. We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth (Journal of Discourse, vol. 4, p. 218).
2. The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129).
3. The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).
13. Salvation
1. "One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation," (Miracle of Forgiveness, by Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206).
2. A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 8).
3. Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247).
4. Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, p. 92).
5. There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188).
6. "The first effect is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79).
7. "As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements -- 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,'" (Articles of Faith, p. 79).
8. "This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts," (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).
9. "We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do," (2 Nephi 25:23).
14. Trinity, the
1. The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

[FreeState]

45. Thats a nice list -

I was raised LDS and served a 2 year mission (I am no longer a member and I am not Christian). Anyone can make a list of beliefs - granted your list, that I expect you copied from somewhere, takes a whole lot out of context, just like your OP.

AS to you original post:

they believe that they are the true Israelites,

Wrong. The Church believes in the literal gathering of the lost tribes of Israel. All people on the earth are part of one of the lost tribes - meaning all are part of the House of Isreal. However only Jews are Israelites.

they believe that all men inherit a planet when they die and become gods themselves. Their job is to have many many wives and populate those planets they become gods of.

This is not a current belief and is not taught in the church, nor has it ever*. Brigham Young did believe a version of this and talked about in a series of books called "The Journal of Discourses," which is not now nor has it ever been considered cannon or doctrine.

*BY taught you would inherit all the God the Father has - meaning the ability to create worlds, not inherit them. Even when he taught this it was not considered doctrine.

They also believe in magic underwear

While the use of Garments as a sacred garment may seem weird to you they are not considered magic nor underwear to members. The Garment symbolized the covenants a member makes in the temple and the covenant, not the garment, protect them from harm if they are faithful.

and that Christ came from south America. I could go on but I have to get to work.

Jerusalem is in South America?

From the Book of Mormon:
Alma
CHAPTER 7:10

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/7/10,14#10

10 And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.

[notadmblnd]

46. Ok, that was the reply you should have given to my first post

However all you have said about my list, is that it is nice, I probably copied it and that it has been taken out of context. Tell me, please, what was tken out of context?

[abluelady]

3. Google Mormonism and Christianity

There are plenty out there who do not believe Mormons are Christians. Just another reason to love organized religion!

[keith the dem]

6. Muslims also believe in Jesus (as a prophet) but follow a latter

day prophet.....much like mormons.

[Green_Lantern]

8. yeah but Muslims don't believe Jesus is divine or in salvation

Through Christ. Mormons do.

Mormons believe all church members have revelation.

[moblsv]

9. Mormons believe in an additional testament

In my view, that makes a Mormon a Christian in the same way a Christian is a Jew.

[zipplewrath]

10. That's pretty close to perfect

Early Christians considered themselves jews. St. Paul had the most to do with "busting" that link. Mormons consider themselves Christians, but most theologians would tend to consider that a fairly weak link to the rest of christianity. Early Muslims thought of themselves as of the same "faith" as jews, but it didn't take long for that concept to get ruptured.

[Green_Lantern]

12. they believe in the core tenets of Christianity....

Let's put it this way...it's stupid to say "you're wrong" when I said Beck is a follower of Jesus.

[zipplewrath]

13. As do the jews

The "core tenents" of jeudism are part of Christianity too, but I wouldn't suggest that makes Christians into jews. It's a stretch, theologically speaking, to suggest that Mormons are "christians". Mormons are... well... mormons.

[Green_Lantern]

16. no..Jews and Christians don't have the same core tenets..

Jews don't believe in salvation through Jesus or in his divinity. That's the core Christian belief.

[zipplewrath]

19. One of them

There are several core Christian beliefs, that is just one of them. There is also the monotheism of the God of Abraham. Original sin and the fact that we are all born as sinners is also drawn from the jews. The very idea of salvation comes from the jews, the Christians just differentiate themselves by believing it has come.

[Green_Lantern]

23. I'm not sure about that but the belief in Christ's death and

Resurrection is the defining belief of Christianity.

Your argument that Judaism and Christianity are basically the same thing is unfounded.

Judaism doesn't believe in "original sin" or that we're born sinners. They believe we're born a blank slate with freewill.

No...Judaism doesn't teach salvation is yet to come. They don't even believe humans require salvation but people are required to observe the law and engage in good works.

Jews don't believe in earning reward in Heaven as Christians do.

[Green_Lantern]

11. apples to oranges...

Jewish people don't believe Jesus is divine and don't believe in salvation through Christ.

Being Christian has nothing to do with how many books your Bible has.

[gratuitous]

14. Mormons don't identify themselves as "Christian"

Or, maybe more properly, don't identify any other denomination as properly "Christian." In my experience, Mormons tend not to participate in ecumenical activities, even those they might agree with, preferring to maintain and pursue their own programs even when it is duplicative of other programs already in place.

[Green_Lantern]

18. don't tell these Mormons...

Mormons on the lds website say they are Christians....

http://www.mormon.org/faq/

[gratuitous]

21. I did cover that particular base

But thanks. :eyes:

[monmouth]

15. I remember when JFK was running for Pres. and the looney right

was going on and on about how we now would be run by the Pope. Gads, these people are nutso. "Papist, Paist, he's a Papist." Ah, fond memories...

[H2O Man]

44. Exactly right. n/t

[Quantess]

17. You mailed an anonymous letter

and you received an anonymous letter in return?

Creepy.

[Green_Lantern]

20. I didn't send an anonymous letter...my name was published..

I received an anonymous letter.

[spanone]

25. everytime i get a ltte published some nut sends me a letter

anonymously...chickenshits

[DemocracyInaction]

36. It isn't important what Mormons think

...when it comes to voting, it's all about what the fundies think. I do know one thing for a fact: the fundies consider the Mormons a "cult"!.....as they go their way following whatever some half-assed tv preacherman (like Robertson, Falwell)tell them to think, believe, do....and send in "Da' Money"! As a Lutheran, I personally believe that Christ is sitting up there on the edge of a cloud trying not to vomit on the US of A (land of the hypocrites).

[alfredo]

38. A little known fact about Jesus: he didn't walk on water,

he surfed.

[Radical Activist]

40. Long-haired, sandal wearing, surfing hippie!

He's probably in California right now.

[alfredo]

41. Holy wars? Hell no. Fun in the sun? Hell yes.

[Green_Lantern]

47. probably not long hair and probably a big strong guy...

Carpenter and all.

[Radical Activist]

39. This is why Mitt Romney will never be the Republican nominee.

Conservative protestants don't think Mormons are real Christians and have been exposed to years of anti-Mormon propaganda. Romney will never win a primary in any state where the Southern Baptists are the largest denomination.