A country that will burn books

[Hardrada]

will eventually burn people.

-Heinrich Heine

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. I have made that point

and it does not sink.

[davidinalameda]

2. great quote

keep this kicked

[Hardrada]

9. Thanks. I can't imagine why this had not occurred to me earlier

to say since I have had the image of pyres of books in my mind whenever I think of these "holy"
pyromaniacs.

[babylonsister]

3. Yuck! This clown in FL is getting a lot of press, but I don't think

'the country' is behind him thankfully.

[proteus_lives]

4. A country that wants to silence some will eventually silence all.

[Hardrada]

11. It doesn't have to be inevitable but unfortunately often is.

[Codeine]

5. The country isn't doing it, for fuck's sake.

A handful of dumbass Jesus Freaks is.

[Art_from_Ark]

13. Agreed

This is not a state-sponsored event, it is just a private molehill being hyped into a mountain.

[msongs]

6. eveidently that doesnt include beatle albums lol nt

[Skip Intro]

7. But, "the country," this country, isn't burning any books.

A few kooks, who have as much rights as everyone else to express themselves, are doing this.

"The country," our country, isn't protesting at soldiers' funerals. A few kooks, with freedom of expression, are.

I get your point, but it seems an apples and oranges comparison to me.

A better comparison to me would be between burning the flag and burning any book. Both are expressions of opinion. Both, imho, are misguided and shortsighted. Neither can be said to be acting on behalf of "the country" as a whole. Neither are government sanctioned. But both illustrate, and yes, maybe pervert, the extent of the freedoms we all enjoy.

[Hardrada]

8. Perhaps we know that but perception is reality also

and how will this be perceived in other lands whose people do not undertand how "free" we are?

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hardrada]

12. The problem is the MSM like Fox "news" which will play it up

and play it up as though it has some widespread sanction. I am not as sanguine as are you concerning the general global level of wisdom.

[sabrina 1]

19. If the country had not slaughtered and tortured hundreds of

thousands of Muslims in two countries, you might have a point.

And if, in order to get away with it, the country had not scape-goated Muslims, the rest of the world might view this moron as an aberration. And if we didn't have even Democrats supporting the movement to prevent a Muslim Community Center with a Mosque from being built near the site of 9/11 while not objecting to other religious groups being there, the world might never have heard of this moron.

But the world and many in this country who are willing to face reality, realize that he is merely the result of the bigotry against Muslims that has been rampant since 9/11, the crusade launched by the neocons against the Muslim world and supported out of fear by a majority of Americans millions of whom voted for Bush after his crusade had already started.

And when members of a U.S. president's cabinet advocate 'destroying the entire ME', Michael Ledeen I believe responded 'faster please' when asked if he realized that starting a war in Iran might destroy the ME.

From outside the U.S. this guy is simply what people expect from the U.S. We currently have on trial to our disgrace, a tortured child soldier, subjected to trial under the vile MCA. And if Americans are so insulated that they don't realize how we are viewed by the rest of the world, someone needs to tell them.

He IS the face of America to the Muslim world which makes up one sixth of the world's population and to the rest of the world watching in horror the decline of this democracy over the past decade.

America is not a safe place for Muslims Americans today. While there are many good Americans trying to stop the insanity, we cannot overcome the impression that this is a bigoted nation and that this nutcase is representative of the sickness that the photos from Abu Ghraib depicted.

Especially since not one single war criminal has been prosecuted. Muslim life is cheap to America. 'We don't do body counts'! Have we forgotten the injustices that have gone unpunished? Because I know that the rest of the civilized world has not. What else could anyone think?

[Codeine]

20. The government has condemned it.

The media has - in the main - condemned it. The country has clearly condemned this stupidity. You view the Muslim world as being without the ability to discern nuance -- I do not accept this as so. If I'm smart enough (and I ain't that bright) to not get my panties all wadded up when someone in the Middle East torches an American flag I'm going to give others the benefit of the doubt and assume they can cope with a copy of the Quran on fire. Anyone whackadoodle enough to go apeshit medieval over the issue was already dead set on a lifetime of hatred and rage anyway, so fuck 'em.

Beside all of that, the dumbass Christian preacher and his dumbass Christian flock have a Constitutional right to burn the books they own. I will not abrogate their freedoms - and thus my own - so that someone can be spared the horror of knowing that thousands of miles away in a country they will never vist someone they do not know and will never meet is burning a book of fairy tales.

[sabrina 1]

25. Everything I said sailed right over your head.

Maybe if this country was bombed into the dark ages by the Chinese, let's say, and then they rounded up tens of thousands of Americans and threw them into Gulags. Then they raped American women and children and forced them to do unthinkable things, things that violated all their morals and beliefs, and sneering Chinese women were photographed pulling American men, naked, around the floor of a filthy prison on a leash etc. etc. And this was shown on TV around the world. Americans being treated like dogs.

And ten million of our citizens were slaughterd (that would be the number of Americans proportionate to the number of Iraqis we killed).

And if they told the world that they were on a crusade against Americans because all of them were terrorists.

And then one day in China, some lunatic, inspired by his government's propaganda against Americans, announced that he was going to burn the Bible and the American flag in public to show his hatred for Americans. And there were Americans still living in China.

And what if he wasn't the only one spewing this hate against us? What if there was a Chinese Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Sarah Palin etc? And what if the occupation of America was still ongoing and there were still Americans being held and tortured. How would we feel if the new president of China had promised better relations with Americans, but then announced that no war criminals would be prosecuted for slaughtering and torturing Americans?

How would you view that moron if the shoe was on the other foot and you were the target of hatred from a country that had already slaughterd so many of your people?

He doesn't have a right to incite violence.

[rhett o rick]

39. Is your argument that our government should stop Koran burning? Since the post

you are responding to has been deleted, it is hard for me to figure out what your argument is. America was/is wrong to wage war and torture Muslims. America would be wrong to deny this nitwit from burning the Koran. Freedom means sometimes allowing people to do things you mite not like.

[HuckleB]

14. The country does not want books burned.

[Hardrada]

16. It just looks bad since it is a symbolic act that is not entirely

repudiated by his fellow citizens. It is of the nature of George Wallace standing in the foorway of the university hall in defiance of civil rights. Symbolic and menacing thereby.

[HuckleB]

18. It has been repudiated by the vast majority of his fellow citizens.

[TexasObserver]

15. It's not a country that is proposing to burn books, but a person.

His right to burn books as symbolic speech is protected under our system, because we value the freedom to express approval or disapproval of religion over the need some have not to have their religious beliefs challenged.

If this guy burns the books, he acts only for himself and those who support him. Our country is not doing this. He is, and that's where responsibility lies.

[McCamy Taylor]

17. WE already burned folks. In Hiroshima and Fallujah and Vietnam.

[smalll]

24. Wow. You thought the OP wasn't anti-American ENOUGH!

:crazy: As the kids say, "it is what it is."

[Hardrada]

28. Don't question our patriotism.

[deminks]

21. You don't think that a government in different hands would condone this?

I do.

Remember the Dixie Chicks.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2003/aug/22/1

(snip)

Their anger at Bush is now expressed in far stronger and more coherent terms than the original off-the-cuff comment. "We were told the official White House quote on our ordeal," Maines recalls. "I thought it was going to be something empowering about the first amendment and our rights as American citizens. I don't know why I thought such an educated thing could have come out of there. Instead it was, 'Their fans have spoken.'"

"Which makes your mind go back to the death threats and the trashing of Emily's ranch and the corporate banning," says Maguire. "So is the President condoning those things?" Robison demands.

(snip)

Now the Dixie Chicks are not a religion. But the hate is the same. Hate everything that isn't like you. It is the fault of everything that is not like you that you are unhappy. Hate everything that questions you. That is the mantra of hatemongers of any place, of any time.

[Radical Activist]

22. No, not books! Bras!

We're supposed to be burning bras, dammit! They must have had a bad cell connection.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EN58swFCmfY/SbNF7-Sx2yI/AAAAAAAAAHg/QCjFShc_bZs/s400/burning+bra+women+lib+demonstrators.gif

[smalll]

23. "The country" isn't burning books. Some people in it are.

I doubt we'll burn people. For one thing, we don't even stone people or behead them, we're such wimps!

Honestly, we all have issues with the side we find ourselves on. You wanna know my biggest issue with this side, what passes for the left? This nonsense:



Does this "country" have its issues? Sure, as every country does. But sometimes, the enemy is NOT us. Sometimes (gasp) someone else out there is (gasp) WORSE!

[qb]

26. Ray Bradbury's remake of his own Fahrenheit 451 can't come a moment too soon.

[Brickbat]

27. Whew, good thing the government isn't the one burning books! And good thing the government isn't

moving to prohibit this crackpot preacher man from burning the books, too.

[Recovered Repug]

29. If we don't believe in freedom of expression

for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.
Noam Chomsky

[Mira]

30. Yes. And that's all I can say about it unless I want to break out in tears. n/t

[mjane]

31. our country is not burning books

assuming it goes through, some morans in florida are burning books.

Our govt. and our country in no way endorses their actions. It's pretty clear that most of the people who are speaking up about it are strongly opposed to it.

Our country ALLOWS them to do it (minor civil infraction possible open burn code violations aside) because we recognize free speech.

Recognizing free speech is a good thing, even if it means morans can burn Qurans, flags, and Nazis can march.

Our country is not = the worst among us. Our country, as a nation of laws, just recognized their right to be fucksticks.

[rhett o rick]

32. One man is burning books. Let him. Stop giving him attention. nm

[Codeine]

33. Exactly. Succinct and perfect. nt

[rucky]

34. I'm relieved to see so many Americans FREELY EXPRESSING their disapproval

of book burning.

[rhett o rick]

38. American are free to express opinions and burn books and flags. nm

[Hekate]

35. Stunted souls from the Dark Ages; and yes, tossing a human being on the pyre comes next.

[Hardrada]

36. Thanks. You get my point.

This goes a lot beyond normal media hype.

[Hekate]

37. Burning books is not about "freedom of expression" but about obliteration of knowledge...

.... free thought, religion, and culture. Libricide has a long history.

This is just one stupid man, or one congregation, who wants to do this. However as a free people, as the Americans we want to be, it is vitally important that we speak out against it, and not just online.

Perhaps I feel as I do because I was raised among books by parents who read a lot. We didn't have money, but we had books and we had library cards.

My mother told me that when she was in high school in Colorado, just at the outset of WW II in Europe, a German Jewish boy came to live there. He talked about witnessing the Nazi book burnings of 1933 -- it's been many decades since she told me about him, but I could tell she had lived it through his words, and that his sickened feelings became her own. Books torn from bookshops, libraries, schools, private homes and thrown into a public bonfire in the street. Not only Judaica, but literature representing all forms of thought deemed non-Aryan or inimical to the state as it was then.

It may be laughable to us when the ignorant and fearful burn the Harry Potter series because they think it promotes "witchcraft." It's infuriating when the Dixie Chicks got slapped around and all but banned from the airways for opposing Bush. But the burning of a religious book with intent to insult and suppress THEIR right to express themselves freely and to worship as they see fit -- that is much more dangerous.

Here's an article with links to three interviews that are thought-provoking. http://www.abebooks.com/docs/Community/Featured/book-burning.shtml

Hekate

[Hardrada]

40. Yes, this must not be easily dismissed.

I agree with your insights into this situation.