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Asian countries moving away from standardized testing because it kills "creativity and innovation"

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-07-10 11:55 PM
Original message
Asian countries moving away from standardized testing because it kills "creativity and innovation"
Yet the United States is moving quickly to impose more of it on our schools. Not just to test the students either, but to use their scores to judge teachers.

A University Distinguished Professor of Education at Michigan State recently spoke out on this topic.

Yong Zhao on how our global competitiveness will be damaged by the US government's imposition of high stakes testing

Zhao is University Distinguished Professor of Education at Michigan State University, where he also serves as the founding director of the Center for Teaching and Technology as well as the US-China Center for Research on Educational Excellence.

The video is about 10 minutes long.

Just as the federal government has announced the awarding of $330 million to two consortiums so that they can develop new national exams, it is more important than ever that people check out this video of one of our best critics of high stakes testing, Yong Zhao.

..."He points out that China and other Asian countries are trying to move away from standardized testing, because it kills creativity and innovation, just as the US government is trying to impose it on schools throughout the country.

He also talks movingly about the importance of arts education and nurturing individual talents and resiliency, all of which are damaged by the monolithic emphasis on high stakes testing.


The other day I read a post by someone here who said that they were tired of hearing about individuality and creativity....they just wanted the kids tested for reading, math, and science. The propaganda against public education has worked so well that now those of us who stand up for it are considered annoying, betrayers of this administration. No one wants to hear about what they are doing to education, and that's a shame.

It should alert us that we are just starting on a path that other countries are now leaving. They have realized what did not succeed and are moving on to find what does. We are not benefiting from their experience.

Here is more from the blog of Professor Yong Zhao. He sets up a dialogue of questions and answers by Arne Duncan. It is amazing how he captures so perfectly the tendency of Mr. Duncan to give non-answers which go in circles and end meaninglessly.

Master of Myth: What Arne Duncan Says and Does

Zhao asks how in the world could Arne travel the country on that big blue bus and not hear any criticism.

During this one-hour call-in radio program, Duncan took questions from students and teachers in the Washington DC area in the studio and a few callers from around the country. Out of all the questions asked, only one gets close to criticism: “When are we going to start learning how to think and not just how to pass a standardized test?” To which Duncan answered: “It got to happen yesterday.”

That’s the moment of epiphany: Secretary Arne Duncan is a master and all criticism melts away before this great master, master of myth because all critics are told what they want to hear.


Duncan and a well-rounded education.

Duncan: And the biggest thing is, we have to give everyone of you a well rounded education. So reading and math, English and math are hugely important, but so is science, so is social studies, so is foreign languages, so is financial literacy, so is environmental literacy. We have to get back to a well rounded curriculum. (NPR Talk of the Nation)


Good answer, suits everyone who is not paying attention to the way he is narrowing curriculum by letting tests set the agenda.

This part is a gem.

Duncan: Today in our country, 99 percent of our teachers are above average. (New York Times story)

Question: If so, why do we need such drastic, expensive, and unproven measures such as tie teacher evaluation to student test scores to deal with the 1% of below-average teachers? I have to believe he does not believe his Lake Wobegon inspired statement himself.


On NPR he even said that "I’m always conscious of is that the best ideas in education are always going to come at the local level, never from me, never from Washington." (NPR Talk of the Nation)

The professor points out Arne's comment that 25% of students never graduate high school. He wonders where he got his figures. He then quotes the National Center for Educational Statistics (NCES). Their studies say that "“the status dropout rate declined from 14 percent in 1980 to 8 percent in 2008?”

The statistic represents all 16 to 24 year olds who are not enrolled in school and who do not have a GED. So where did Arne get his figures?

I guess someone will say as is inevitably said that they wish to goodness this would be posted in the Education forum.

The changes being made to education affect all of us, not just teachers. Getting rid of our public education system in the name of reform needs to be recognized by all.








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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R&IBTM
We are no longer allowed to discuss education in GD, it's too divisive.

Off to the dungeon with you..

Oh, and killing creativity and innovation is feature of high stakes testing from the point of view of the politicians, not a bug.

Creative and innovative citizens are just so much more difficult to propagandize and demagogue.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. heh heh
I just figured out the ibtm. :-)
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. Where are the threads moved to?
Edited on Thu Sep-09-10 06:05 PM by JonLP24
What forum?

I never knew this because I stayed away from GD for awhile.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. At least a generation before we realize what hit us
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. Very true.
.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. +1, and by then it'll be too late.
Who needs creative writing classes, when we might as well train our children to ask, "Want fries with that?"
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. It will be too late for this genertion
but like everything else, it cycles.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. Could Asia be moving away from that type of testing because they are acing it and they expect more?
I agree that creative thinking must be a goal but that comes after you have the basic foundation down.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. .....
Edited on Wed Sep-08-10 12:10 AM by madfloridian
Whatever you say.

Educators just don't know much, do they.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I don't doubt they do but I wonder how much is invested in protecting the current way of doing
Things.

Teaching is too difficult for just any person to be good at it. We must recognize those who have the skills and move those who don't out of the profession. Maybe you are right that current proposals are not the way to go. So I ask you...how would you determine who is an effective teacher and who should go?

My mother has her degree in Education but she realized pretty early she was not suited for it. She couldn't handle trying to control so many kids. Do you think inefficient teachers self select themselves out of the system or do you think they should be removed?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Teachers are constantly evaluated. Always have been.
And that tenure people talk about...it takes several years to get it with only good evaluations each year. It is propaganda that teachers are not evaluated.

I posted this in answer to a question the other day. It is almost exactly what our county's system was before I retired. Those who want you to think that bad teachers stay and stay have other motives, like wanting public schools to fail so private companies can take them over for profit.

This system or similar are used in many areas:


http://www.danielsongroup.org/theframeteach.htm

I have been trying to tell people that teachers have always been evaluated. I don't know the name of the system used in our county, or even if it has a name.

But when I saw that page I thought it was just about the same.

The domains even sound about the same.

Domain 1: Planning and Preparation Domain 2: The Classroom Environment
# Demonstrating Knowledge of Content
and Pedagogy Demonstrating
# Knowledge of Students
# Setting Instructional Outcomes
# Demonstrating Knowledge of Resources
# Designing Coherent Instruction
# Designing Student Assessments
# Creating an Environment of Respect and Rapport
# Establishing a Culture for Learning
# Managing Classroom Procedures
# Managing Student Behavior
# Organizing Physical Space
Domain 4: Professional Responsibilities Domain 3: Instruction
# Reflecting on Teaching
# Maintaining Accurate Records
# Communicating with Families
# Participating in a Professional
# Community
# Growing and Developing Professionally
# Showing Professionalism
# Communicating with Students
# Using Questioning and Discussion
# Techniques
# Engaging Students in Learning
# Using Assessment in Instruction
# Demonstrating Flexibility and Responsiveness
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Not just evaluated...removed. Or do you think any person in the classroom
Should be kept there regardless of aptitude? Is it possible to take a complete loser of a teacher and turn them into a champ?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Guess what?
You are just being argumentative, and that does it for me. I post seriously, and you are not even reading what I write. Your mindset is against teachers, and you can't get past it.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I don't think dkf was being argumentative.
Edited on Wed Sep-08-10 09:05 AM by BzaDem
The poster asked a legitimate question. Your post consistently described how teachers were evaluated in a number of areas. But it did not describe what happens when those evaluations are not satisfactory, which is what the poster was asking. It is not logically inconsistent to have frequent evaluations but no dismissals when the evaluations are bad. (Evaluations in theory could be used to require additional training, as opposed to dismissals for consistently unsatisfactory performance.)

Of course, I am aware that it is the case that many teachers ARE dismissed if the evaluations are consistently not satisfactory. But that does not follow from your post, other people outside of education are less aware of that, and dismissing their arguments as "argumentative" does not help inform people about our current system or continue a dialogue.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I have answered that many times. The propaganda has worked.
Edited on Wed Sep-08-10 09:18 AM by madfloridian
Teachers with tenure can be fired. Of course it must just be me thinking he/she is argumentative...just because he argues the same thing all over the board means nothing.

You have found the right forum for teacher hate. It is showing more each day.

I change the word "hate" to condescension or contempt. It's more like that.

Snide remarks toward those of us who care about education.

Ding ding ding....the battle over public schools is done. Thanks Obama and Arne.

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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. And this is what happens. Instead of offering statistics or proof that poor teachers are removed...
...we are insulted and accused of hating teachers. Can't win the argument, so the other point of view is spun into something vile. It is not 'teacher hate' to think teachers should all be qualified.

I was angry when my children had teachers who treated their intelligent questions as a 'problem' simply because the teacher couldn't answer. I had three kids who, truthfully, were more intelligent than the majority of their teachers (Doctor by age 26, all three graduated w/ honors from tier one university). And the worst teachers were those who felt threatened by their smart students and used their power and manipulation to demean their inquisitiveness, and insult their intentions, rather than try to answer their questions. Just saying.

Thankfully, the vast majority of teachers weren't threatened, and did a great job. I think we need more of those. If a teacher has to insult those who are questioning them, perhaps they're in the wrong profession.
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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. No. Dkf was not being argumentative. His concerns are mine, and every time we ask we're insulted.
Edited on Thu Sep-09-10 02:01 PM by Diane R
I know teachers are evaluated. I taught for over ten years, I have a M.Ed. What I don't see is teachers being removed because of low performance. My experience is that they are treated with kid gloves; many years to improve, then intervention to 'rehabilitate', then many more chances...until they are old enough to retire. Meanwhile, scores of kids put in a full year with an inept teacher.

This has got to change. Yet these daily threads only concentrate on protecting teacher's jobs. No acknowledgment that we have a very real problem with too many teachers in the classroom who just aren't up to the job. Somehow, it has become more important to preserve their jobs, benefits, tenure and pension plans than to make certain every child has a great teacher.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #29
44. hmm...
Your experiences as a teacher represent a limited and biased sample, and are not generalizable to our larger population. Asserting that you've 'taught for over ten years' and implying that you've personally witnessed low performing teachers being coddled and kept on staff until retirement is a sad repetition of Arne's 'bad teacher' red herring.

That being said, both you and Dkf might consider whether you've misconstrued madfloridian's efforts to address this 'bad teacher' red herring (being actively promulgated by Arne Duncan in collusion with the Corporate Megalomaniacs, who WANT a complacent and compliant workforce). If you honestly believe that the predominant 'problem' with public education is 'bad teachers,' then I encourage you to acknowledge that you've been snarfing the red herrings.

Public Education has been 'broken' for years, and NOT because of bad teachers! Assigning blame for our broken system of education on 'bad teachers' is both simplistic and misleading. However, if you're sincerely interested in effective change (and, I sincerely hope that your post is evidence thereof), do a little research about how best to actively participate in that change on your local level.

You see, that's what madfloridian is all about, Diane--protecting our system of public education. I hope you take the time to review what she has been posting, and get on board with the rest of us. Again, if we don't work together to protect and improve public education, we richly deserve what WILL happen if Arne and his ilk get their way.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. What a kind post.
Thank you.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Please,
please, please keep posting in defense of public education, madfloridian! I am confident that I am not alone in appreciating what you're doing.
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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. I don't agree at all.
The mistake with your premise is assuming that 'protecting our system of public education' means maintaining the status quo. In none of the posts from myself, DFK or others has anyone said the entire problem is bad teachers. We've said it's a major issue that needs to be addressed. To assert that has been our argument is the definition of (your words), 'simplistic and misleading'.

I doubt I am the only person with personal knowledge of poor teachers remaining in the system until retirement. Ask any parent. I've seen it professionally, and as the mother of three boys who all went to public schools.

The problem with your argument, and MadFloridian's daily posts, is that you view anyone who isn't jumping on the 'Anti-Obama and Arne' bandwagon as enemies. We have real concerns, and teachers would help their own cause by listening. I believe our public school system needs a lot of reform before all students receive a quality education. To believe the system can change without an overhaul of how we hire and evaluate teachers is naive.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-10 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. hmm...
Protecting our system of public education does not presume that the system cannot change or be improved. When I assert that we should protect our system of public education, I mean specifically that we should prevent corporatists from dismantling it entirely. Furthermore, we should acknowledge AND address the fact that public education DOES need to change, particularly in response to our species' now exponential times.

Despite your desire to make your personal experience with 'bad teachers' a representative sample, you cannot convince me--or anyone with a statistics or methodology background--that your 'personal knowledge' supports your premise that bad teachers are the reason our system of public education needs to be 'overhauled.' I strongly encourage you to understand that the 'bad teachers' meme is a red herring promulgated by those with a vested interest in dismantling or privatizing public education. Thus, the real issue is money--on many levels.

And, Diane, I don't view you or anyone who disagrees with me as 'enemies'--though I do think you've given little time or energy to becoming as informed about this issue as you could be. Furthermore, I would encourage you to read Alice Miller for a clear understanding of my position regarding our children (and, I mean this on the macro level), and the respect they deserve. You might also consider Joseph Chilton Pearce's "Magical Child."

Just FYI, most of my students tell me that I 'make learning math fun' and that I help them 'understand math better' than they've ever understood it before. Since most of my students are in a learning curve (age-wise) with regards to articulating why my approach works for them, I seldom hear them say, "we really like you because you genuinely love and respect us," but that's precisely why I remain enthusiastic and excited to be a teacher in these trying times.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
41. Actually the answer to your question is No
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. 3.2.1.0
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
9. this is important. our nation is better served by innovation & creativity
but people are easily sold on numbers games in worthless push-polling.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. I fear it is becoming all about numbers and scores.
That makes me sad for all the kids who will be left out of the equation. So many who have a lot of contribute to society, but who can not for the life of them do well with bubbles, will be left behind in all this.

We always allowed for individual differences. Now Arne comes along and says forget about them, and he is celebrated by Democrats.

So that makes us the party that doesn't allow for individual differences in education.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
10. K and freakin' R. //nt
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
14. k & r
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
16. I know what. Let's fire all the teachers and start over fresh.
That would make peace on this forum.

Looks like this one will be locked or moved to education forum as well. Let it happen.

Arrogant Arne has won.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Right, madfloridian, no more creativity or individuality.
Let's all march in lockstep.

Hey good idea...how about the KIPP SLANT program for everyone, not just minorities.

S sit up straight

L Listen

A ask and answer questions

N Nod my head

T Track the teacher with your eyes

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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
20. We don't want none of that shit here in the US...we want hard headed businessmen,
Edited on Wed Sep-08-10 12:52 PM by old mark
and servile, dependable sheep to work for them when needed and shut up when they ain't.
"We treasure your diversity"...no, not really, certainly not if you are TOO diverse, if you know what I mean...

We have become a republican country, and we are going to pay for that for many years to come.


mark
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Well said.
:)
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-10 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
50. They think that is what they want...
but once they get it they will miss what they had. All of my ex and current bosses like me for one reason- I have a flexible mind. I can see problems from multiple angles and find the answer. My thought processes did not develop the way they did due to standardized testing, but by having good teachers (in school and personal life) who encouraged me (to steal the Apple ad) to "think different"
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anarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
24. "Yet the U.S. is moving quickly to impose more of it on our schools" - and for the same reason!
There's such an emphasis on preparing students "to compete in the global economy"...I think what that really means is to lower expectations about our standard of living to the point where people won't complain anymore, and the glory days of American ascendancy and the existence of the middle class won't even be remembered (hell, just take that part of history off the standardized test prep study list, and poof! No lingering memories to make future generations all bitter).
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. "lower expectations about our standard of living"
There is definitely some of that going on. The unions gave us a strong middle class, now the unions are being broken.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
25. Recommend
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-08-10 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
26. More from Professor Zhao on constant testing effects in China
http://zhaolearning.com/2010/06/19/what-are-high-really-high-test-scores-worth-competition-among-schools-in-china/

He shows how once the test score begins the main or only criterium, it is hard to ever get away from that method. But upon closer examination, this practice is of great concern in China and should sound alarm to those who are pushing for school competition, high stakes testing, and accountability based on student performance, i.e. test scores.

"First, the motivation behind the practice is troublesome. These top scoring students, a very small percentage of the total student body, are simply advertisement. Schools bet on that they will continue to score well enough to go on to prestigious universities. And when they do, the school can claim to be of great quality and attract more students and income. Chinese schools, although most of them are theoretically government run and public, are in reality run as businesses. They compete for students (so parents can pay school selection fees or make “donations”) and recognition of the government (so the school leaders may be promoted and staff may be given bonuses and school get more resources).

Second, the selection criterion is only test scores in a number of limited subjects (Chinese, Math, and English in most cases). Nothing else counts. As a result, all students are driven to study for the tests. As I have written elsewhere, particularly in my book Catching Up or Leading the Way, such a test-driven education system has become China’s biggest obstacle to its dream of moving away from cheap-labor-based economy to an economy fueled by innovation and creativity. The government has been struggling, through many rounds of reforms, to move away from testing and test scores, but it has achieved very little because the test scores have been accepted as the gold standard of objectivity and fairness for assessing quality of education and students (as much as everyone hates it).

Third, the practice exacerbates the already huge inequality among schools. Only schools that are already well-endowed can put up more attractive incentives to students. And these schools take the best students away from those already suffering from a lack of resources. While the good schools get better, the others get worse—a perfect case of the Matthew Effect: “For to all those who have, more will be given, and they will have an abundance; but from those who have nothing, even what they have will be taken away” (Matthew 25:29)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
28. He speaks about
Zhao points out that putting the national government in charge of education might not be too wise. With states adopting the Common Core standards to get RTTT money, that is what is happening now.

http://zhaolearning.com/2010/05/23/mass-localism-how-might-the-race-to-the-top-money-be-better-spent/

"For one, should a secretary of education be given so much authority to effect massive changes in states without explicit Congressional authorization? In a commentary published in Education Week, Grover J. “Russ” Whitehurst, former founding director of US Department of Education’s Institute of Education Science, asks “did Congress authorize Race to the Top?” And his answer is “No.” “Even if it did, once was enough,” writes Whitehurst because “it is a mistake in principal—and a danger in reality—to allow any U.S. secretary of education this much policy discretion when doling out large sums of money.”

Second, will the U.S. really benefit from a nationalized education system with educational decisions made inside the Beltway?
I tend to agree with Professor Al Ramirez, who argues that “it’s time to reform federal education policy” in his commentary published in Education Week on April 28. As “state after is handing over its education apparatus to the federal government, in exchange for what amounts to small change,” Ramirez cautions asserts:

"Our children won’t read better because Congress serves as the national school board. Nor will they learn more mathematics with the president as the national superintendent of schools. We risk making things worse across the country by giving up more policy control for education to the federal government. By centralizing our system of education, we put the whole nation at risk, should Beltway bureaucrats and policy pundits guess wrong about curriculum, instruction, and the range of policy decisions associated with public education."

With Race to the Top, the U.S. Department of Education’s guess may just be wrong. National curriculum has not proven to be the silver bullet for raising achievement or closing gaps (I have written about this before on this site and in my book); charter schools have not been proven to be THE solution either (they are plenty of good ones and bad ones just as public schools); teacher merit pay or associating teacher evaluation and job security to student test scores has not been proven to raise teacher quality either; and longitudinal data systems are based on a very mechanical view of student growth and development, ignoring individual differences and the human aspect of education. All these measures, mandated by Race to the Top, are very likely to result in more bureaucracy, cheating, and narrowing children’s educational experiences, and stifle creativity and innovation. Not exactly what we need to prepare our children to meet the challenges of a complex, rapidly changing world in the age of globalization."





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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
31. "Today in our country, 99 percent of our teachers are above average."
:wtf:

I thought Arne was from Chicago, not Lake Wobegon. :eyes:

See me after class! :dunce:
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KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
33. now we see the route WHY the Billionaire Boys Club is doing what it is
they want U.S. really as worker drones, as Asia is moving away from that dulling, deadening drill tests...........I'm surprised that patiotism hasn't been used to counter the bbc because America USED to be proud of its' innovators & inventors; now we have alot of "intellectual property", somewhat like when UK went from #1 to #2. Why give anything to those billionaires who want child labor brought back?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
34. KICK!
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
35. Back when I was in high school...
...long ago and far away, at a public school in Montana, we had a curriculum that included electives like art, theater, chorus, and orchestra. I can say categorically that those courses saved me from becoming totally alienated as a student. To me it is tragic that fewer and fewer schools offer these choices anymore. The experience of today's students is diminished as a result.

People often say, in defense of education in the arts, that learning music can be very beneficial to learning mathematics. I agree that is true, but in my opinion, saying that "music can help with math skills" automatically assigns greater importance to math skills than to music. Yet would you want to live in a world with mathematics but without music? I would not want to give up either one, and to me both are equally valuable.

As an aside: during my stint in the software industry, we used to worry about the Japanese catching up with us in the software arena. There was an initiative in Japan called the Fifth Generation, it was going to supplant the Fourth Generation (4GL) languages that had been developed mostly here in the U.S. Turned into a big fizzle. The consensus was that, while the Japanese were extremely conscientious and sometimes brilliant engineers, and they often ran rings around us from a quality perspective, they lacked the creativity that had contributed so much to our success in this area.

Yet here we are, sacrificing creativity on the alter of measurement. Why the hell does it have to be one or the other? I agree measurement is important, as is mastery of the basics. But so are creativity and critical thinking, and you need to exercise all of these aspects to be truly educated.
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lunasun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. "...creativity and critical thinking..." sounds threatening to some folks I bet nt
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
36. It hasn't mattered that we knew that BEFORE WE EVEN GOT STARTED.
Knowledge hasn't counted. Political agendas and power plays count. :(
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
37. Creating drones
with tax dollars is exactly the goal of the neocon agenda. They won't send their kids to schools where test-benumbed curricula make schools into factories for well-behaved worker bees. Their kids are to be the ones who hire, fire, abuse, and laugh at the kids who have to suffer through what so many here on DU are supporting. Those DUer's kids will take the brunt of the scam that the right has worked so well.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
38. Yet the dismantlement continues to loud applause.
Schools don't need an injection of predator capitalism and meatgrinding memory driven teaching to tests.

I don't know what is so hard for some folks to see that the real battle is the folks on top of the hill think most of you and your kids are a waste of resources to educate and education also makes you a threat to take a bauble from their dragon hoard.
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lunasun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-10 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
39. I went to my daughters open house
Curriculum??? Yes!
-getting ready prepping to take 'the tests'
-doing pretests' to see what they need help with for the test
-grouping classmates based on test weaknesses
-given in the 1 sheet of important bullet points - all the days there will be tests and what test they are,ISAT etc.
Be there !!
Nice young teacher (2nd generation) but it is not her doing I am sure merely a pawn which is unfortunately what my child has become! Too bad.... when she was in preschool they always commented on her creativity and spatial ability to make things out of the left over supplies etc.
Not needed to grind the wheel or whatever I suppose....this country wants to be the place of great ideas and inventions???
Like from where?? the few liberal private schools you need a lot of $$$ + high IQ for ???
maybe
but not much is wanted from the common man's child now days in thought or invention and a lot will be lost becuse not all great and new ideas have come from the upper crust in history. Even if it is just cultural like great poetry or music it is still a loss for our country.
Not here Not now You betcha!

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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 04:51 AM
Response to Original message
42. We should be moving away too.
Those tests are fucking useless.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
43. Please
DO continue to post about this crass assault on public education. This perverted initiative--accelerated by Arne Duncan--cannot be disguised by flowery phrases (Race to the Top, my rear appendage!), nor can it be justified as a purging of 'bad teachers.' And, if we elect to passively accept what Arne is doing (in the name of 'better education'), then we will richly deserve the inevitable results.

Sad, isn't it, how many DUers have swallowed Arne's red herring about 'bad teachers.' My personal experiences as a newbie teacher have taught me that you can be unjustly labeled a 'bad teacher' if your administrator wants to get rid of you (eg, if you use a word in front of her that she doesn't understand, thus inadvertently making her feel 'less than'). In my case, I kept all my evaluations and could identify exactly when things changed: on the page where she and her assistant principal lowered my scores to 'justify' compelling me to resign, they forgot to erase their original comments, which lauded my exceptional performance on those measures. Ironic, wouldn't you say?

To those who post that you 'ignore' their concerns about bad teachers, I would assert: identifying Arne's red herring meme does not in any way suggest that there are NO bad teachers in public education! As with any profession, teachers run the full spectrum--from very, very good to very, very bad. However, to suggest that our current system of public education is infested with a plethora of 'bad teachers' who cannot be removed because of 'tenure' (AND that this is why public education is suffering) is patently absurd.

Finally, please consider linking your continued advocacy for teachers and for an exceptional system of public education with the grim reality that over 40% of our adult population is functionally illiterate. To me, this is proof positive that public education has been 'broken' for decades, and all the brouhaha du jour is yet more propaganda about 'fixing' the 'problem' when, in fact, the Corporate Megalomaniacs have been achieving their goals this entire time.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
45. I'm so glad the so-called miracle economies in the east are coming to their senses...
Now if only the bean counters here in the US understood that education is a very difficult asset to value or measure and that it stifles creativity...
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Panaconda Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-10 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
46. Thanks for your work
Too late to K&R. With ya' on this one big time.

Standardized tests and education create consumer drones.

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