Middle Class Tax Cuts are a GOOD Thing, BUT

[bvar22]

....not the best stimulus.
Most of the people who really NEED the Money, and who will spend it immediately pay very little or no income taxes (and rightly so).
Put the money directly in THEIR hands, and you will see "stimulus."

The other problem is Structural.
Money spent at WalMart or any other Big Box does NOT circulate in the local economy providing the Stimulus Effect.
It is sent straight back to Corporate HQ (or out of the country), and into the pockets of the Ownership Class in one quick step.
FDR didn't have THAT problem to deal with.

Before this country can get back to a REAL Middle Class and thriving Local Economies,
the Big Boxes MUST be broken up.

Teddy Roosevelt, your hungry nation calls out for you!

[liberal N proud]

1. The middle class would use the money to pay debt

The less fortunate financially would spend the money on consumables they need to survive. Clothes, food etc.

But unfortunately they will spend it at WalMart

[DJ13]

3. Theres nothing wrong in paying down debt

In fact a program that was targeted at reducing consumer debt would be a great stimulus program all by itself as household debt levels are way too high too allow further consumer discretionary spending, which our economy requires for renewed growth.

[liberal N proud]

14. Nothing wrong with it unless your objective is to quickly stimulate the economy

[sandnsea]

2. We did that last year

Extra money in unemployment benefits, extra pell grants, extra food stamps, extra refundable tax credit for working people...

You poo-pooed that when it happened too.

And money put into any store provides jobs and the people who earn money from those jobs DO spend the money in the local economy.

[Kweli4Real]

6. Thank You ...

We must face it ... Bigbox stores are here to stay. And to be honest, breaking them up would cause more "pain" than having them operate. While the vast majority of the money will ultimately leave the area, we cannot discount the wages earned and spent by the local folks.

Place in most places, the mom and pop retail establishments have disappeared ... never to re-appear absent a complete melt-down.

[sandnsea]

7. I think we need to fight for better wages

And just because profits leave it doesn't mean ALL of that money leaves. Some of it coms back in the form of retiree's dividends that they spend.

But we do need to tell those people who are living on dividends that they're taking money out of the mouths of workers who are trying to feed their families.

[Kweli4Real]

13. I agree ...

that we need to fight for better wages; but, with the "taking money out of the mouths", aren't you assuming that those wages would otherwise be paid out to employees? I would far rather see profits paid out to shareholders than be infusions to corporate executives bank accounts in the form of outrageous salaries or bonuses.

[sandnsea]

17. Tax policy should favor workers

They should set the tax policy so that neither executives or shareholders get wads of money for doing nothing.

[bvar22]

15. More nonsense and untruth.

The on;y part of the Stimulus I "poo-pooed" were the tax breaks, which EVERY economist agrees is the least effective avenues of stimulus.

YES, Big Boxes DO employ people (low wages, no benefits, no equity)....people who would otherwise be employed at local businesses.
Study after study confirms that local unemployment increases when WalMart comes to a small town and forces locally owned business to close.
But the REAL crime is that the store profits of a WalMart are immediately removed from the local economy where profits from locally owned business were put back into the local community.

[sandnsea]

16. You just did it again

That $400 per worker tax cut was a big part of the stimulus tax cut. It got money into the hands of low income workers, many of whom don't qualify for any other tax break because they don't have kids.

I am not a fan of big box stores. But I think the real problem with them is low wages and no benefits, not just their existence. Local mom and pops pay minimum wage and no benefits as well. My only point as far as local spending is to not forget the number of retired people who live on investments made in retail. That's the "ownership society" and those people do exist whether you like that business model or not. They count in the economy.

[dkf]

4. If you want funds spent, using a voucher will do the trick.

Use it or it expires.

I'm glad you are taking the time to think it through though. Part of trying to propose policy is understanding what happens to the economy. I'm beginning to think that in this time of a significant recession it may come down to what is most efficient, not what is fair.

We need to be more savvy and concentrate on results. In the end we all benefit from a healthy economy.

[daylan b]

5. Every time I hear the idea of a voucher

I remember the absolute mayhem at the shelter here in San Antonio I was working at during Katrina.

Never again will I support such an idea.

[dkf]

8. What if it comes in the mail same as a tax refund?

[daylan b]

9. The chaos wasn't getting the cards to people.

The chaos was what happened afterward.

[dkf]

10. What happened?

[daylan b]

11. They sold for ten cents on the dollar.

Fill in every racist a-holes dream of what happened next and you'll be pretty much right on.

[bobbolink]

19. The person suggesting it wasn't interested in "fair".

In other words, what happens to those of us on the bottom of the ladder is of no consequence.

We are just useless eaters.

[TheKentuckian]

12. Nobody wins with the big box stores except for the shareholders and the high level suits

They aren't providing any great advantage in jobs and what extra (if any) we get in numbers is more than offset by quality of opportunity for entrepreneurship.

We are systematically dismantling huge sectors of potential for living wage jobs and businesses that give a wide cross section of Americans the ability to build something that serves and gives value to their communities, provides certainly no worse jobs, and gives the working class a way to build and pass on a little better life to the next generation in a cold exchange for a bunch of cheap shit that ensures we buy plenty and often for no purpose of substance.

It is just plain foolish. Our lives aren't better and our broad based opportunities are greatly diminished.
The big box stores are a drain on the great potential of the American people, we are selling our birthrights to enrich the few on the backs of near slaves and automation.

We are not obligated to accept what is. This is our time and we are responsible for what is passed on. We the People do not prosper, little by little what was ours is diminished and does not flow back.

Cheap T-Shirts and a TV today instead of a few dollars more for things that will last or maybe using some lay a way/saving versus opportunity and our resources building community value is a no brainer to me.

I don't get the other side of this. These stores are not structurally beneficial and are likely seriously contributing to depressing wages and certainly a piece of the wealth funnel.
We ought to end these temples to our supply side secular religion.

[bobbolink]

18. Thank you very much! Several times I have posted that the best boost to the economy is to increase

Food Stamps substantially, but none of the "progressives" here understand that or give a damn.

If, as some suggest, that Obama is now listening, then PLEEEZ, start a movment to get him to hear that those of us on the bottom are ready and willing to help the economy, by eating better, and getting the things we NEED, if he will just DO IT.

For those who forget... for every dollar spent to give people Food Stamps, ONE Dollar and SEVENTY-FOUR cents is returned to the economy!

Can't beat that deal!

Now, go shout it out!

[maryf]

20. OK!!!

:applause: Can you hear me?? words out from me!

on edit: K&R the op too!

[Dappleganger]

21. What we need are J O B S