Rand Paul Campaign: Staffer Accused Of Trolling Daily Kos Impersonated

[sabrina 1]

The whole thing may have been a hoax:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/08/rand-paul-campaign-staffe_n_708965.html

On Tuesday, the progressive blog Daily Kos alleged that Thomas Kubica, a paid intern working on Kentucky U.S. Senate candidate Rand Paul's campaign, had been pretending to be a left-leaning member of the online community for political gain; however, according to the Tea Party-backed hopeful's camp, the accusation lacks merit and is entirely untrue.

"This phony," wrote Paul aide Gary Howard in an e-mail to the Huffington Post on Wednesday morning. "The person is not our intern, someone used our intern's info from his LinkedIn page to pose as him on Kos and post stuff. He even sent us an email through our website email form pretending to get 'caught' working for us."

The email address Kos claimed as proof, didn't originate from where he claimed it did:

According to IP Address information sent to HuffPost, the message sent by "Tom Kubica" came by way of Massachusetts, not Kentucky as had been suggested by the Daily Kos one day earlier:

IP Address Country Region City Latitude/ Longitude ZIP Code Time Zone 38.97.124.170 UNITED STATES MASSACHUSETTS FRAMINGHAM 42.3019 -71.428 01701 -05:00 Net Speed ISP Domain DSL PSINET INC COGENTCO.COM IDD Code Area Code Weather Station 1 508/774/781/978 USMA0147 - FRAMINGHAM

A twisted tale based only on the word of a blogger, and just as happened with Shirley Sherrod, the person accused was not given a chance to respond before he was tried and convicted and all kinds of other speculations spread like wildfire around the internet.

In updates at the link Kos is sticking to his story, but hasn't explained the incorrect source of the email he used as 'proof'.

Tom Kubica, Paul's aide, adamantly denies he ever posted on Daily Kos.

I'd say the ball is in Kos' court. He either needs to provide more than an incorrect email as proof of such serious allegations, or apologize imho.

[LostinVA]

1. Oh my, isn't THIS interesting

Poeple are so quick to jump to comclusions, aren't they?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7576286

[sabrina 1]

4. Yes, if it turns out not to have been true, then what IS the truth?

I remember that story too. People should be very careful before they jump to conclusions. I am learning that Karl Rove was not the only dirty trickster around, and why even Democrats seemed to admire him.

Seems in that world, Rove is a figure to be admired. No wonder people become cynical.

So, was it a Dem pretending to be a Libertarian pretending to be a Dem?

[LostinVA]

7. Yeah, that is what I was wondering

ie your last paragraph.

[Fumesucker]

10. In that case then it was the Troll Hunters who got trolled..

[sabrina 1]

11. Lol, I'm getting a headache!

And a new respect for dirty tricksters! It's hard on a brain like mine to try to figure out who would benefit from a Dem pretending to a Libertarian pretending to be a Dem? Maybe I'm just tired ~

[Lasher]

17. Inconceivable!

[sabrina 1]

20. Lol!

[Junkdrawer]

36. But..But...It PROVES that Jane Hampshire is a Republican posing as a Democrat....

to sow discord in the what-otherwise-would-be-loyal Democratic ranks!

Doesn't it?

[glitch]

70. It's so juvenile but it sure does seem to work with some people. :screwy: nt

[robdogbucky]

82. Pretty funny Junkdrawer

but it's Hamsher.

Just sayin'

[Turborama]

56. Me too and this is the 1st I've taken any notice of this "agent provocateur" story.

Thanks for the exposé of the "exposé". :hi:

[glitch]

69. Anyone who benefits from splitting the opposition and getting them to distrust each other.

Actually this is standard old cointelpro stuff. And since it is standard and well known, anyone from organized opposition to some bored 12-yo who finds it an amusing diversion.

To see whether a ploy like this is organized I look at who takes it up and broadcasts it, and how much it's repeated.

[mmonk]

61. Yes, isn't it?

After all the lectures and innuendo too. The truth still isn't known.

[LostinVA]

62. Exactly

[Fumesucker]

2. If it is proven that the Paul staffer didn't do the posts on Kos..

I wonder if all the Troll Hunters on DU will apologize for pointing their fingers at everyone but themselves and their ideological clones?

[LostinVA]

3. No, but there should be a huge

Mea Culpa thread.

[Lilith Velkor]

6. Fat

fucking chance.

[LostinVA]

8. Oh

I know

[Lasher]

14. Boy am I glad I didn't weigh in on this one.

Just on account of being busy, but I think I'll pretend it's because of my high moral character.

[sabrina 1]

38. That's why I stayed out of it.

Because of my high moral character! Lol!

Actually I think I made a few comments in one of the threads, and then I ran. I was afraid of being accused of being a commie or something. I wasn't sure what opinion I was supposed to have, is really what I meant .. :hi:

[LostinVA]

42. Yeah, me too

[sabrina 1]

5. Well, it wouldn't be the first time Daily Kos has wrongfully

accused someone of being a troll with an agenda. Apologies, if they come, are usually buried deep in a very long thread, missed by almost everyone. Kos is not the most reliable source for these things. Which is why I watched all this yesterday and wondered, remembering how certain they were on other occasions too.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WonderGrunion]

12. I see no surprises here

in the posters leaping to the defense of a Paul staffer. You are all welcome to my ignore list.

[sabrina 1]

15. Lol, you are putting everyone on your ignore list?

Did you forget your sarcasm tag? I'm not sure you are serious so I'll ask. If the story was not true are you saying we should not speak about that and let the lie stand?

Forget the question if you really were just kidding ....

[LostinVA]

43. Trust me, they weren't kidding

[sabrina 1]

52. Wow! That is funny. I really thought he was kidding n/t

[flyarm]

68. I would be PROUD to be on that list..I would be in great company with so many great DU'ers

that I have total respect for, and DU'ers who have incredible integrity and principles and values!

Please do put me on your ignore list..it will be a badge of honor I will wear proudly!

Understand this though, there will be but a very small minority of people you will be able to read! Enjoy your little group!

[fascisthunter]

106. excellent, put me on ignore too

[Number23]

126. Not only that, but the comparison of this BS to Shirley Sherrod is nothing short of idiotic

I can't even really believe I just read this shit here.

Unrec for being so quick to jump to the defense of someone who is more likely than not NOT ON YOUR SIDE. What fresh hell has infested this place?

[sabrina 1]

130. It isn't about someone being on my side. It is about

whether or not someone is rightfully or wrongfully being accused of something. If someone is accused of murder eg, should it matter whether they are politically on my side?

There was a kneejerk reaction to this without hearing both sides and it was for the worst of reasons. It was about politics. Just like Shirley Sherrod. It didn't matter whether either one was actually guilty of what they were accused of. I would hope that we don't judge people based on anything other than the facts.

I have seen people wrongfully accused of things on blogs before. And even a Republican, or a Libertarian, deserves the chance to respond. I would think that goes without saying. And the extension of that reaction was an ugly McCarthy-like demand that people practically swear that they are not 'commies' or be driven out of the party. It was very disturbing even though I barely skimmed the threads it was clear that something very ugly was going on.

[Number23]

131. Yes, the comparison between these two issues is 100% legitimate.

:crazy: :eyes: :crazy: :eyes:

You keep going out of your way to defend and support someone who is more than likely a Republican troll but please have the common sense if not the decency to leave Shirley Sherrod out of this idiocy. You're just making yourself look stupid.

[sabrina 1]

132. The reaction to these two people was exactly the same.

REACTION! Do you understand the difference between 'issues' and 'reaction'?

I don't care whether someone is a Republican or not. I want to know the facts. And to whom do I 'look stupid'? If it is to anyone who doesn't care about the truth, then I would be proud of their disapproval. I am very confident that those whose opinions I respect most definitely agree that ethical people do not jump to conclusions without taking the time to get the facts.

And I am almost certain that having suffered the same kind of kneejerk reaction, Shirley Sherrod would agree and would not care, as I do not, whether the person was a Republican or a Democrat.

You confuse demanding proof with 'defending'. You cannot convict or defend someone without knowing the facts unless your are a person of low morals can you?

[Number23]

133. Keep going. With every post, with every word you sound more ridiculous

[sabrina 1]

135. I didn't think you'd have a substantive response. Not willing

to stand for equal justice for everyone regardless of their politics. This is exactly what was demonstrated by this non-news as many people fell all over themselves to yell 'gotcha' without waiting to see whether they had the facts or not. Mob rule, it's bad when the other side does it, it's even worse when our side does. At least they make no pretense of being fairminded.

[Swamp Rat]

13. What a great campaign Rand Paul!

:rofl:

[sabrina 1]

18. Very nice, Swamp Rat!

It's confusing, isn't it, I mean of it WAS the staffer, what did he expect to accomplish? One guy on a site as big as DK isn't going to have much of an impact anyhow. And if it wasn't him, then what was the purpose of someone pretending to be him and who would have an interest in doing that?

[Swamp Rat]

21. What I find funny is, Rand Paul's campaign is sullied no matter what.

HAHA! What a fool! :D

[sabrina 1]

23. True, which means if they did it, they are not very smart.

Otoh, that does seem more like a Dem probably did it, one of those Dems who hate the Liberal wing of the party and decided to 'kill two birds with one stone'.

I hope the truth is uncovered. Dirty tricks like this just drive people away from politics.

[Swamp Rat]

29. I have no idea what is going on regarding this story

but it kinda has a Jerry Springer Show feel to it. :D

I'm more interested in Rand's professional history as an ophthalmologist, the details of how he supposedly became qualified to treat other human beings. After all, he is a byproduct of Ayn Rand.

I assume he claims to be a fully licensed ophthalmologist, so I guess I'll have to take his word for it. :D

[jobycom]

16. I'm not sold yet.

Paul's campaign is arguing that someone pretended to be a Paul aide, went to Kos, and for some time posted to undermine a Democrat to help Paul's fundraising, but that person wasn't connected to his campaign. That person was clearly helping Paul, whether Paul knew about it or not, so it's safe to assume it wasn't a Democrat. So who would fake that? Is he arguing that Kos or some other Democrat deliberately sabotaged a Democratic candidate's campaign just so they could make a fake accusation? I guess it's possible, but it seems like a complicated scheme with no real benefit. It could be some random hoaxster, I suppose. Or it could be an actual Paul supporter who used a fake name. Those make less sense, but are possible.

Kos says at the link that his signup process verifies the email address because it sends a link to the email address that requires a person to click on a link before they can post. Huffpost admits they've seen that email address, it's different than the one in question that got routed through Massachusets, and that it seems to belong to Kubica. Paul's only defense of that, so far, is that he's never seen Kubica using that address. I guess that could be a setup, too--huffpost doesn't go into enough detail to really judge.

Or it could be that Paul was caught tampering with a campaign using fraud and possibly opening his campaign to federal investigation, an embarrassing scandal, and possibly serious consequences even beyond those. Remember when Bush's team tried to frame Gore's team for stealing debate tapes? The person who mailed the tapes actually went to prison over it (although her boss, who probably ordered the whole thing, got away with it). Fraud and election tampering charges can get serious. So, Paul would have a reason to lie and to forge email addresses.

I'm not convinced yet that Rand Paul's camp is telling the truth. I'm not convinced they aren't, either, so I'm waiting to hear more.

[sabrina 1]

19. Yes, it 's complicated and since both sides have holes in

their stories, it's hard to know who is telling the truth. But then as you say, there could be serious consequences for a staffer playing dirty tricks like that and with so little to gain from what he supposedly did, why do it? Did he become a star poster who was frequently on the rec list? Even that wouldn't do much for Paul's campaign.

Otoh, what is to be gained by a Dem pretending to him, then 'getting caught'? It does make the campaign look bad, so that's a good thing from the Dem pov. But again, wouldn't that be fraud also?

I think it should be easy to prove. Checking the computer of the staffer eg. Anyone posting on DK for any length of time, would have to have evidence of that on their computer. Shouldn't be hard to check out.

[jobycom]

26. There would be plenty to gain for an actual staffer of Paul's.

I didn'y mean it wouldn't be worth it for Paul, just not for Kos.

If Paul is using his staffers on message boards where his opponent is trying to drum up money, he can suppress a lot of donations, and maybe even votes. The reward would easily be worth the risk, since he doesn't figure he'll get caught. The Republicans have long had such schemes, and I'm sure the Democrats do, too. They used to be pretty basic--they just mailed talking points to their web rings and had activists post those points everywhere they could. I remember back in 2000, before DU, going around to a dozen of my favorite sites, and you could watch the talking points start arriving in the morning--same words, same format, sometimes. Some of them just cut and pasted the text from their emails. It's all gotten more sophisticated now, but I have no doubt it's still done.

The only other thing that makes sense, aside from Kos just making it up to get attention, is a random hoaxster who likes Paul, but then the email to Paul's web site doesn't make sense. Not that the letter makes sense, anyway.

Weird. I love it. This is why politics is my favorite sport. :)

[sabrina 1]

32. Yes, I didn't get that email to Paul's site. It sounded like an

amateur 'double secret-agent man'.

Swamp Rat made a good point above, that no matter who it was, either way it harms Paul's campaign. So if that was the intended result, then doesn't it make sense it would be a Dem who was responsible, a clever Dem?

Either that or Paul's campaign are remarkably stupid people.

As far as Kos doing it for attention, lol, not an outrageous though by any means. It would surprise if it wasn't maybe, his friend and co-founder, Armstrong, the DK 'blogfather' who was caught pushing stocks on a financial board several years ago, but did not reveal that he was being paid to do so. He was charged with fraud and convicted, and he made a deal with the Feds. Freepers were all over it, Red State etc. because a Dem, not just any Dem, but the co-founder of DK, was caught faking who he was on another board. He claimed he was innocent, but pled guilty and promised to explain the whole thing after the case ended. But he never did. Also used to run an astology site. Imo, a con-artist, but the Party likes him and they don't seem to mind his criminal record.

I'm just recalling that because they always had operatives roaming the threads of DK. They did not reveal that until after they were ready to reveal their real purpose, which was not to be a Liberal Blog, but more of an online Campaign Head-quarters and only acted like a progressive blog while they were building and needed liberals to fill the board with. Until they didn't need them anymore. It's been fascinating to watch that blog, not to participate, just watch.

I could definitely see Armstrong doing something like this as he has done it before, for money.

Yes, politics is fun ~ a 'contact sport' someone once called it :-)

[jobycom]

115. The idea of it being a liberal trying to hurt Paul is pretty thin.

First, he tried to disguise who he was, and succeeded for a while. The idea that some liberal would be that patient at sticking to his message while waiting for a busy board wizard to randomly discover the couple of clues he planted and expose him so he could spring the trap is pretty weak. It's possible, but that doesn't sound like a random prankster, the more I think about it. His posts definitely hurt the Democrat for far too long.

He stayed under cover for at least a week, based on the dates that Kos posted, and I don't know how much longer, always subtly (how many activists are subtle) undermining the Dem, never coming out and bashing him.

I'm thinking it was either someone trying to hurt the Democrats (whether they worked for Paul or just supported him), or it was someone trying to promote Kos or trying to create "proof" that there were paid operatives on these boards. That could be someone at Kos, or Kos, or someone independently, but they would almost have to be in league with Kos to be sure to get caught, or at least know the system enough to know what clues to drop so they'd pick it up.

At this point, I''ll wait for the book. I'm wasting way too much life thinking about it. :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. The plot thickens

LOL

[myrna minx]

24. This whole sordid thing

made me feel awful due to the fact that it didn't tale long for us to devour our own with horrible personal attacks and accusations. Yesterday was a real eye opener for me and not in a good way. It was a real 'Lord of the Flies' day and it was disturbing. This whole thing doesn't make any sense to me. Who gained anything from it other than sowing the seeds of doubt amongst ourselves. :-(

[sabrina 1]

25. It was pretty sickening. I skimmed the threads and

left, but what struck me was there was almost a swarm of people salivating over getting people here banned based on nothing but allegations.

It was McCarthyistic with these kind of statements from DUers to people they had apparently identified as 'the enemy':

'If you say that you are holding the Party's feet to the fire, YOU'RE A TRAITOR TO THE PARTY!

'Do you or do you not swear that you will never again criticize the Party'

As you say, it was like 'lord of the flies'. Made me feel very bad also.

[G_j]

30. though I don't see any of those

same folks here...

[Fumesucker]

31. One showed up.... And put everyone on ignore..

:rofl:

[sabrina 1]

33. You mean he really was serious? Lol!

I thought he was kidding. I never heard of anyone putting everyone on ignore before :rofl:

[Fumesucker]

34. WG is definitely a sensible pragmatic centrist..

So, yeah, I think he was serious about putting all the professional leftists on the thread on ignore..

[sabrina 1]

35. Lol, but that's no fun! I never put anyone on ignore, I am far too

interested in defending my positions and especially when people disagree with me, it really helps to strengthen your arguments.

What's the point of being on a discussion board if you don't want to 'discuss'? Lol, makes zero sense for a 'sensible pragmatic centrist, I mean! Very funny! :-)

[Dr.Phool]

103. I put myself on ignore one time.

I was having an identity crisis.

[sabrina 1]

75. They've been here, busy unrec'ing this thread! You'd think they'd

be happy to know that they don't have to suspect their fellow DUers anymore?

[LostinVA]

44. My very favorite

Accusation was that long-time "left" (whatever that means) posters are not actually people, but are accounts shared by a group of people. Who have met IRL, marched together, visited one another, etc. It is ridiculous. Good grief, many LT posters don't even post here any more because of stuff like this.

[sabrina 1]

53. You're kidding! Talk about tin-foil hats.

Sounds like some people need to get away from their keyboards for a while :eyes:

[LostinVA]

54. No, several times

I was like :wtf:

[sabrina 1]

55. Seriously, I worry about people online sometimes.

We are not real people? :rofl:

[flyarm]

83. I saw that crap too , numerous times!! It made me sick! But not surprised by who was posting that

crap..shame shit , just another day!

The people who post that crap just project what they are doing onto others!

[gkhouston]

57. Now that is funny. And perhaps an interesting bit of projection?? n/t

[LostinVA]

60. It's just all very strange n/t

[myrna minx]

58. LOL - I've met several wonderful Duers over the years.

I've joined wonderful Duers for dinners, gone to conventions/caucuses and protests, meet up for the F-911 movie, and even hosted Duers in my home. :rofl: That's a fantastic CT. You'd think my tortured syntax and creative spelling would be a dead give away that I'm no pro. But - am I *real*? Really real? I'd better turn on the black light and reflect on this Pink Floyd poster for a while. :D

[LostinVA]

59. Oh -- I forgot to ask you

Did I send you the new password to my account?

:rofl:

[myrna minx]

63. I can't believe how weird yesterday was - but I guess I say that every time.

On edit - I mentioned something from a locked thread - so I'm going to delete what I said. I don't want to get this thread locked because of my post.

[LostinVA]

66. oooooooo

troublemaker

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fumesucker]

27. Just look at who was doing the doubt sowing..

Not the "professional leftists", it was the "sensible and pragmatic centrists" who were witch smelling and pointing fingers.

My reaction was a bit different than yours, I thought the whole thing was hilarious, especially when someone posted a pic of Sean Connery in a David Vitteresque outfit.

[gkhouston]

48. Oh, I missed that. I only skimmed the thread because it looked like just another

round of pointless shit-stirring.

Not a Smart Thing to do to an immortal dude who carries a sword. :silly:

[Brickbat]

71. Everyone should read your post. This site walked right through the Looking Glass yesterday.

[myrna minx]

72. Thanks for sticking up for me yesterday.

Most of those horrible/bizarre posts directed at me are now deleted, but wow. They were just stunning. :hug:

[robdogbucky]

89. Jarmisch and Tom Waits

on your avatar/sig line, whatever it is.

Love it.

Recently saw Coffee & Cigarettes.

Friggin' funny in a Steven Wright kind of way.

[myrna minx]

134. I love it when they work together.

:hi:

[mtnester]

28. fantastic spin

genius

"Let's blame it on...on...WAIT...let's blame it on internet identity theft! Yeh! That's the ticket! Now, how can we do that..let's get busy fellas!"

[JTFrog]

37. You skipped the actual Update, where Markos says he's not backing down on his side of the story.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/08/rand-paul-campaign-staffe_n_708965.html

UPDATE: In the wake of denial of any wrongdoing from Paul's camp, Markos Moulitsas, founder of the Daily Kos, signaled to Ben Smith at Politico that the site is not backing down on its side of the story.

"Our evidence is based on the signup email -- which can't be scammed. The owner of that email has to verify it by clicking on a link to post on Daily Kos," Markos Moulitsas emails, providing a different, and apparently real, email address for Kubica.

"Otoh, that does seem more like a Dem probably did it, one of those Dems who hate the Liberal wing of the party and decided to 'kill two birds with one stone'." :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

I don't care to know who's paid to post or not paid to post really. As I've said before, Obvious troll is Obvious. But the anti-Dem conspiracy theory is a bit over the top.

[sabrina 1]

39. No, it is in the OP AND I provided the link.

Since you missed it, here it is again straight out of the OP, just for you:

In updates at the link Kos is sticking to his story, but hasn't explained the incorrect source of the email he used as 'proof'.

Tom Kubica, Paul's aide, adamantly denies he ever posted on Daily Kos.

I really wish people would read the OP before they post.

[JTFrog]

41. Oh I read the OP, but the actual Update wasn't quoted in the OP.

That's all I meant. Lots of folks skip clicking on links and just read the OP itself.

[sabrina 1]

46. And I mentioned that there were updates and said what they

were about.

The updates were at the top of the article, easy to see when you click the link. I always clikc links.

I posted the paragraphs which gave the most information as it is a short article so I could not post much of it. And I gave a summary of the updates since they didn't say very much other than both are sticking to their stories. Sorry you seem to find something wrong with that. I didn't see much of importance in the updates, just a repeat of what they both said to begin with.

[JTFrog]

47. Did I say something was wrong?

Well, besides the crazy CT :tinfoilhat:?

I merely said it wasn't inclusive so I posted it. And I only included the link again out of habit.

Sorry you seem to find something wrong with that.

:shrug:

[sabrina 1]

49. Lol, YOU brought it up as though it was federal case not to

include it. And now we are having a silly discussion over nothing. I gave you the link, I paraphrased it in the OP. What more did you want? I mean I've seen OPs with one line, no link, and a question mark.

I think most people probably did click the link and knew about it even before this silly conversation.

Why am I having this conversation? YOU started it! :rofl:

[JTFrog]

50. No U.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[sabrina 1]

51. Lol! I'm telling ~

[Gold Metal Flake]

100. Where is the link?

Could you repost the link in a reply to this pot, please?

[sabrina 1]

107. Click on the Huffpo link in the OP. The updates are at the top

of the article. I think it's still working but if not, I'll repost it in response to your comment.

[Gold Metal Flake]

108. This?

UPDATE: In the wake of denial of any wrongdoing from Paul's camp, Markos Moulitsas, founder of the Daily Kos, http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0910/Paul_campaign_Online_impersonator_was_impersonated.html?showall">signaled to Ben Smith at Politico that the site is not backing down on its side of the story.

I see a link to a Politico post, but no link to DKOS. The Politico link does not link to DKOS.

[sabrina 1]

109. Yes, that is what we were talking about. That is the update mentioned

by the other commenter which he pointed out I had not posted in the OP. I pointed out that I had summarized it and that it was available in the link.

[Gold Metal Flake]

110. Um, but it's not the statement from the Daily Kos.

It is a portion. There is no link to the statement from the Daily Kos.

[sabrina 1]

111. No, there isn't I don't think anyone claimed there was. I posted

a link to the story from HuffPo. If you have a link to the full statement, then please post it.

[Gold Metal Flake]

112. I do have a link.

It was posted on DKOS yesterday.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/9/8/900185/-KY-Sen:-More-on-that-Rand-Paul-concern-troll-saga

Here is a portion:

Here's the story in brief: we determined Kubica's identity because he registered at Daily Kos using the same e-mail address that he used to author an online petition. From there, we found his LinkedIn page, on which he stated his role with the Rand Paul campaign. We then verified his employment status with Paul's campaign.

And here's the longer version: the registration e-mail was [e-mail]. We verified the authenticity of the address at the time of registration. In April, an http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6E-lNvyRyTgJ:www.petitionspot.com/petitions/NewC4LSite/save/txt+pnkrck15&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us">online petition was posted using that e-mail address using the handle "TomKBert," and TomKbert is the handle Thomas Kubica http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,18167,23756,24692,24878,24879,24923,25901,26446,26512&sugexp=ldymls&tok=MrapoZ_2yBrYcQqeO1rrOA&xhr=t&q=tomkbert%40gmail.com&cp=18&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=tomkbert%40gmail.com&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=4680d680a94d3e96">uses on gmail. Moreover, Thomas Kubica was one of the 29 people who signed the petition on the same day it was created. (Those 29 people signed the petition within a span of 6 hours.) Just in case that doesn't make it clear, the petition called for a redesign of the Campaign for Liberty website (dubbed 'C4L' in the petition) -- and Kubica (including in his alternate handle of tkubic46) frequently touts Campaign for Liberty and 'C4L' (for example, http://www.youtube.com/tkubic46">here and http://www.dailypaul.com/node/101161#comment-1109933">here).

Despite this clear trail of evidence, the Paul campaign is standing by Kubica. I suppose that's their right -- Kubica didn't violate any laws, he just violated our community standards, and as a result was outed. And who knows? Maybe this will give his career in conservative politics a boost. After all, Karl Rove didn't exactly have a clean track record as a young political operative, and look where it got him.

As a final thought: remember that the concern troll's goal was to dampen enthusiasm for Jack Conway. The best way to get revenge: http://www.actblue.com/page/orangetoblue2010?refcode=9-08_concerntrollpaul">contribute to Conway's campaign.

[sabrina 1]

113. Thank you.

Paul's story is that his ID was stolen basically. Since I'm not technical enough to know whether or not that can be done, I really cannot say one or the other. However, I do have a friend who is a computer expert, programmer etc and will ask him.

Paul could offer to allow a tech person to look at this computer. His IP number should be easily traced to his computer if he was posting on DK.

Sad that people feel the need to play these tricks to win and all they do is turn people off the whole process.

For now, it looks like Kos has the advantage in this but the aide is still denying it. We'll see if he can provide any more proof that he was not the person posting on DK.

[SidDithers]

117. Kick...

facts are good.

Sid

[Matariki]

120. Obvious troll is Obvious

:rofl:

couldn't agree with you more!

[madrchsod]

40. oh no! a paid troll on the internet! what a bunch of bullshit....

kos must have been feeling ignored.

[LostinVA]

45. lol

[blondeatlast]

102. *snort* He's that annoying kid in class that always distracts the teacher when

he doesn't get the attention he feels is owed! nt

[bvar22]

67. Did the Long Knives...

...find any traitors hiding under the beds at DU?

Yesterday was NOT a Proud Day in the history of DU.
A new LOW was established.

[sabrina 1]

74. I got the impression that everyone was a suspect.

Everyone but them, that is. And the way to identify a suspect was to 'watch what they say'! Pretty spooky.

They've been here, unrec'ing this thread as if burying it means no one would learn that the whole thing may have been a hoax.

[G_j]

76. the names are mostly missing

wouldn't want to kick this thread and keep it visible...

[sabrina 1]

116. Guess it didn't work then :-)

[LoZoccolo]

78. I didn't speak out against anybody who wasn't breaking the rules to begin with.

I just suggested they should be tombstoned on the first offense of the professional leftist tactic of equating Democrats and Republicans and other splinterist tactics, and still do.

[Fumesucker]

79. Even implying someone is a troll is also against the rules..

What you are supposed to do is alert on any post that you think breaks the rules.

Should you be tombstoned for breaking the rules?

Or is that only for professional leftists?

[LoZoccolo]

81. Who did I imply was a troll?

They could be sincere or not. The fact of the matter is, these rules appear in the DU rules:

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic Party candidate.

Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party.

One has to wonder why someone from the Rand Paul campaign appears to think that using this tactic will hurt the Democrats. Whether someone uses the same professional leftist tactics from the right or left, sincerely or insincerely, doesn't really come into play.

[Fumesucker]

87. Are you alerting on posts you think break the rules?

I suspect you would be alerting nearly constantly if that were so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf

[LoZoccolo]

90. I will say that I do generally alert on posts of the type we're talking about, yes.

Why not? I come here to talk to Democrats.

[Fumesucker]

96. I guess Will Rogers just had his head up his ass when he said:

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."

[sabrina 1]

101. If you alert on threads because you come here to talk to Democrats

you must be alerting to accuse someone of not being a Democrat. How many times each day do you alert, and how many of these pretend Democrats have been uncovered after your alerts? I come here to talk to Democrats also. So I'd like to know how many Republicans you have exposed and if any of them are still here?

[sabrina 1]

124. Yes, one does have to wonder what this could do for Paul, and

the answer is nothing. Which is another reason why people might be willing to believe he did not do it.

[sabrina 1]

84. Maybe if your mind was focused on more important things

than what your fellow DUers are doing you wouldn't be running around asking for people to be kicked off the site. That is no way to get Democrats elected in the Fall.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

105. And what is it based on? Most democrats will be voting

and I doubt there's any chance of democrats voting for Republicans. So the whole thing makes no sense. I agree, I don't see how it is supposed to work.

[flyarm]

80. +1000, you have that right ! and any thread that questioned the witch hunt got locked! eom

[LoZoccolo]

73. I stand with progressive Kos rather than right-wing Rand Paul.

I'd rather not defend the (predictable) denial of the accused when there's still evidence that Kos was right and he's standing by all of it.

[Fumesucker]

77. Sentence first, then the trial..

Off with their heads..

/Queen of Hearts

[flyarm]

88. I would expect NO LESS from you! Guilty before proven innocent ..your M.O. eom

[sabrina 1]

91. Kos is progressive? Lol well at least we know what your idea

of progressive is. Kos opposes abortion eg, he is a former Reagan Democrat and once stated when in college that he feared gays in the military because he didn't want them 'looking at me in my underwear'. He has banned more progressives from his site, and has had huge exoduses by women, very small % of women and minorities from the site, than most other boards combined.

But hey, you're free to form your own opinion of what is progressive. People do it all the time. I actually think, airc, that it upsets kos to be called 'liberal'.

He has described himself as a 'Libertarian Democrat' and welcomes Libertarians on the site, in fact they seem to be more welcome than liberals. Most progressives know that DK is far from being a progressive site.

[nashville_brook]

121. so glad to see someone else aware of this!!

the anti-prog pogroms (progroms?) are pretty famous over there. or, infamous.

damn, it's been a long day. f'n righteous thread. thank you Sabrina!

[blondeatlast]

123. I spent some time over there a few years ago and felt uncomfortable

at best. I tried it for about a month and haven't been back since. Your post explains why.

I seriously distrust both parties in this dust-up and I think they are all lying or distorting.

[sabrina 1]

125. Very likely. A book could be written about that site. What's insteresting

is that Kos used to be open about being a Libertarian and actually welcomed Ron Paul. He, kos, has a habit of changing positions on important matters sometimes overnight. So I never regarded him as a reliable on anything.

This I believe is the true kos Markos Moulitsas: The Case for the Libertarian Democrat trying to sell Democrats on Libertarianism. So to see him in a 'fight' with Ron Paul's son sort of made me laugh. If anything Paul's politics are much closer to Kos' than say, Ted Kennedy's. And he hates Kucinich with a passion.

All of this and more made me laugh when I saw the above post claim kos was a progressive. Simply not true. Nor has he tried to hide it or his disdain for 'liberals'.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blondeatlast]

86. This is from the same PR firm that brought us "Rand Paul is not a racist"

even though Rand Paul allowed his name to be used on the masthead of a virulently racist paper. Methinks Mr. Paul is not to careful with the embarrassing details.

This jury member needs lots more evidence from Mr. Paul and Mr. Kubica.

[myrna minx]

92. That's just the thing - we need evidence - not calls for tombstoning

people *here* based upon frenzied accusations and witch hunts against people one disagrees with. I think there are paid trolls of all flavors here and all over the internet - this is nothing new. But calls for purging people just because one may disagree with them with is creepy. This is what happened yesterday.

For the record -I think Rand Paul is a liar and a moran.

[blondeatlast]

97. Yesterday was indeed creepy. At first it was amusing but it deteriorated so fast I bowed out

early. I'd go back to the threads occasionally and just see more toxic waste. Really sad stuff.

[bvar22]

114. ALL the ingredients for "Lord of the Flies" Redux.

"Creepy" is mild.

[LostinVA]

94. I agree, we do

That's the point. And, that "sounds" snarky when I read it, and I didn't mean it that way.

[sabrina 1]

95. And this one also, but I would want more evidence from Mr. Kos

also. At this point I would would have to go with an aquittal absent more evidence from the prosecution. That wrong email address cannot be overcome.

A simple solution however would be to look at Mr. Paul's computer history. If he was posting on Daily Kos it would be easy to see. If he was not he would have no problem with anyone looking at it.

[blondeatlast]

98. Indeed. I wonder if there's a tort in there somewhere that either party might pursue.

More evidence is needed--I wonder if either side will be presenting some?

Regardless, yesterday on DU was horrible--accusations galore from both sides and no evidence, just toxic emotion. Not what I come to DU for. :scared:

[alfredo]

93. Here's where Rand Paul lives.

[Dr.Phool]

104. I'm glad I spent yesterday at the gym and running errands.

This shit is getting old, big time.

[Rex]

118. What's all this?

Let the games begin! :rofl:

[SidDithers]

119. The Paul Campaign is mistaken, or lying...

This Kos diary spells it all out, and is very compelling.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/9/9/900308/-Thomas-Kubicas-undeniable-Huey-Long-connections-%28updated%29

Sid

[nashville_brook]

122. Kos has shown himself to be pretty dumb wrt PR. this could be another instance of that.

[Spazito]

128. It seems it was not Kos that was pretty dumb...

Evidence
Thomas Kubica's undeniable Huey Long connections (updated)

snip

In order to nail down Kubica's story, we first must find him online. The cache of his LinkedIn profile shows a Facebook profile link. That link is now defunct; however, searching for the link itself (the URL written as text on webpages) reveals this reply in a post written by a Dr. hfn.

The post by Dr. hfn is noteworthy in that it specifically mentions that it is "my homepage"; that is, Kubica's homepage is Dr. hfn's. Furthermore, if you look at this post, MRoCkEd quotes Dr. hfn but the blockquote shows "Originally posted by tkubic46". Therefore, Dr. hfn was once tkubic46. As seen in this off-site post detailing his request for sponsorship, Thomas Kubica is tkubic46, a conservative college student doing work in North Carolina and Kentucky. If you poke around ronpaulforums.com's Google caches, you can find many many private messages asking for the support of community from the person who is now Dr. hfn. Finally, in some posts Dr. hfn places the tomkbert gmail account as a way to contact him.

Thomas Kubica is Dr. hfn/tkubic46.

To connect Dr. hfn to the petition required a bit of creative googling and my good friend Reddit. A poster with the convenient name of tkubic46 had two submissions: a 10-month old entry on a female high school runner with the last name Kubica and a 4-month old entry leading to a ronpaulforums.com page that has been deleted. The deletion is not surprising, as posts by Dr. hfn that are months or years old were edited or deleted completely earlier today, as seen in the top post ("Last edited today" despite being written in Feb '09). It seems that most of the public work of Thomas Kubica is gone, even on other sites like campaignforliberty.com, which had a link to Thomas Kubica (aka Son of Liberty) that is now broken, with comments archived in Google by him deleted from the live version.

much more...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/9/9/900308/-Thomas-Kubicas-undeniable-Huey-Long-connections-%28updated%29

It seems Mr. Kubica and 'friends' are busy scrubbing away, thank goodness for Google cache it seems!

[ecstatic]

127. IP addresses can be misleading

depending on the ISP and if a proxy is being used. Also, it's not unheard of for people to travel. I've traveled and checked/sent emails from out of state locations--doesn't mean I live there.

[sabrina 1]

129. They can. I just don't see how doing this was supposed to help

Rand Paul ~ one commenter on a discussion board isn't going to change too many minds.

[McCamy Taylor]

136. Wouldn't a troll make sure to use some other IP address? We all know that trolls exist.

I try to point out their destructive messages whenever I can.