Terry Jones is a criminal I think, because

[SargeUNN]

He is not exercising freedom of speech, he is committing an act against the United States that could possibly be proven treason. I know from past experience that the Secret Service and other law enforcement agency will say it creates a fine line for them because of freedom of speech, but this is an act against our national security and interest that feeds our enemy. Have we become this stupid in our country we can't recognize freedom of speech from treason?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. He's probably also a rapist and commits insurance fraud.

I don't know what any of these words mean, but dammit Obama why won't you throw him in jail?

[Karenina]

48. Stories are emerging about his abusive tendencies

before he was thrown out of "his" church on this side of the pond. ;-) Don't know if there's any reference in the link below, I'll check the tabloids tomorrow!

http://www.thelocal.de/national/20100908-29697.html

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

2. This is DU??? Bush obviously lost the battle but won the war.

[Brickbat]

3. People say the same about war protestors.

[SargeUNN]

6. what people say and what is reality

is the point here. This guy is clearly feeding the extreme elements of both sides to violence. To relate the war protest with this is really a reach. That is just not reasonable.

[EOTE]

4. Do you recognize the difference?

Because although what he's doing is profoundly stupid, mean-spirited, perhaps even evil, it's nothing close to treason. It's not a crime either. If this could in any way be construed as treason, I'd find a way to leave this country immediately.

[Redstone]

22. Indeed.

Redstone

[OrangeGrapes]

5. You, sir, have a point

Jones is threatening the livelihood of our soldiers, and that alone sickens me.

[cleanhippie]

11. No, not at all.

The same argument can be made against US Foreign Policy and US Corporate interests overseas. THOSE two things certainly endanger MORE lives than this wing nut pastor, don't you think?

[NoNothing]

7. This shit is getting embarrassing

U.S. Constitution, Article III, Section 3

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

[stevenelijah]

8. Let me get this straight...

If a bunch of fundamentalist Christians threatened to commit terrorist acts of violence if anyone burns the Bible are you willing to also criminalize Bible burning?

If Hindu fundamentalist threaten to commit terrorist acts of violence if anyone eats cow products are you willing to also criminalize the consumption of beef?

[NoNothing]

12. Suggested alteration

If a bunch of fundamentalist Christians threatened to commit terrorist acts of violence if anyone has an abortion are you willing to also criminalize abortion?

Abortion is treason, because it fuels terrorism?

[Redstone]

21. You're new here, but I like what you say. Please stay around.

Redstone

[woo me with science]

32. Thank you. nt

[SargeUNN]

9. think about this too

This action would increase maybe to a boiling point, a divide that is already starting to reach violent actions through out the nation. Peaceful people will be attack even more than is going on as the extremist forces people to one side or the other. If you don't believe this will happen I will give you one historic example I lived through and saw murders committed often and that is the Jim Crow era. I saw a black man attacked by a white man in front of the police station with police looking on, and when I asked why the cops didn't do anything they told me if they did they would never be able to work again. The white man attacked the black man because he and his wife were fighting and so he took it out on the black man. Even as a teen I was aware as was my peers, that we could do harm to blacks and get away with it legally, so the black community had to strike back in ways to protect themselves that just added to the turmoil. This attack on a religion by another religion opens even a bigger door to a worse situation that will hurt more than Jim Crow did. Let's be sensible, this guy is lighting a fuse to a big explosion.

[NoNothing]

13. So were the 19th century abolitionists

Their rabble-rousing resulted in the Civil War, our bloodiest conflict.

So was abolitionism treason, by your logic?

[cleanhippie]

10. I disagree!

And while I understand the sentiment of your post, the same argument could be made for how US Foreign Policy and US Corporate interests can be "an act against our national security and interest that feeds our enemy."

[Brickbat]

14. Sarge, squelching people's freedom out of fear of what a terrorist group might do is a mistake.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Squelching people's freedom is wose than burning a Koran.

[Brickbat]

16. It's worse than making scary faces at babies.

[katandmoon]

18. That's actually exactly what our current goverhment does every minute of every day.

[Brickbat]

19. I know.

Which is why I phrased it that way.

[Redstone]

26. Why are you saying that on a Democratic discussion board? "Our current Government"

happens to be controlled by the Democratic party. Why are you painting them as evil?

Redstone

[katandmoon]

35. Oh, whatever they are, they paint themselves that way, I don't need to.

[piratefish08]

17. the right wing could use your exact argument to oppose Park51.

[metapunditedgy]

20. The right said anti-Vietnam protestors were treasonous, too, but people have a right to

speak out, even if (in this case) they're speaking stupidly in public.

Americans (as a whole) may be missing a golden opportunity to demonstrate to Muslims that Jones does *not* represent mainstream America.

[SargeUNN]

23. ok listen and think about this

His freedom of speech is being allowed, he announced it, the harms it is going to start has been explained to him and the public, so his freedom of speech has been allowed. Now if he goes ahead with all this being pointed out then he is willing to put the good of the people behind his own personal desires and should be held responsible for his actions. That isn't infringing on his right but making him responsible for it. How many here have yelled about hold Bush responsible and yet willing to defend this idiot?

Another thing is a child molester feels so strong about it that he mounts a campaign to promote child molestion, which he has the right to do so. If his campaign causes a movement to more child molestation surge, he should not be dealt with because he has the right to put your child in danger. Certainly few if any here would think this is sensible. Yet here is this nit wit putting your freedom of and from religion into a dangerous area and being justified. Come on folks.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. Sarge, all your arguments are full of failure.

What you're suggesting is actually worse than what Jones is doing.

You're just digging yourself into a hole.

[WinkyDink]

28. Molesting a child is a crime. Burning any book is not.. For starters.

[Matariki]

29. Yes, he's responsible for *his* actions.

If someone does something violent in response, they are responsible for *their* actions.

The media is really more at fault for this garnering the attention it has, otherwise it would still be what it actually is - an insignificant bigot holding an insignificant and disgusting event.

[Redstone]

30. Uh, nobody has "a right to put a child in danger." Just so you know.

Redstone

[NoNothing]

31. Well, I guess it's a good thing Nabokov is dead

Or else he'd have to move back to *Russia* to avoid be punished for his speech, if you had your way.

[woo me with science]

33. Oh for god's sake.

Sheesh.

[Matariki]

24. This is silly.

The guy is a media attention seeking whore, to be sure. He's a bigot, intolerant and disrespectful of other people.

But the violent actions of other people are their own responsibility, not his. Just like that idiotic cartoonist from Denmark - his drawing was bigoted and disrespectful, but people threatening his life over a drawing are worse.

[WinkyDink]

25. Totalitarian nonsense.

[woo me with science]

34. You're kidding, right?

Or you have not taken ninth grade government yet.

[SargeUNN]

36. ok I have tried to present a reasonable discussion but

since you want to get into the gutter by throwing out this ninth grade bullshit. I just say you aren't going to get a reply beyond this because you aren't capable of discussion without throwing insults out and therefore show you aren't capable of discussion.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. There's nothing reasonable about what you're discussing.

This "ninth grade" business isn't bullshit.

You're demonstrating a sub-high school level of civics education. Same as the teabaggers.

You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

If you feel insulted, you only have yourselves to blame.

[SargeUNN]

43. Well maybe you don't see it but again

I grew up in Mississippi during Jim Crow. I heard the talk of how blacks were not human, how they weren't entitled to the same protections as whites, or should be treated equally, and the freedom of speech allowed this talk. I saw the black bodies hung on trees from the KKK and how the police was powerless to do anything because the talk had so many convinced it was justified. I saw the Lester Maddoxs with their axhandles to beat blacks and become so powerful as to become Governor. Yeah they had their freedom of speech and stating their hate was their right, but so many of them never faced the responsiblity for the crimes they inspired and certainly never paid for the scares they put on me and others that decades later are still there.

As for the comparison of this and the building of the community center there is none. First burning these books is an act of destruction meant to incite, the community center is said to be meant to create more understanding and not destroying something. I think about this, if a man doesn't like me and to get back at me he burns a picture of my loved ones each night so I can see it, he is inciting a feeling of anger and trying to intimadate me to attack him. Naturally he would cause me to think he would commit violence against my loved ones. If he bought the house next to me it would make me nervous but also hopeful that we might find a common ground. Now to further this, if my child gets attacked because he stirred up such a contention, then wouldn't he have incited this? Freedom of speech should be given but also responsiblity for what your speech incites is your responsiblity too and you should be held accountable.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

44. You grew up in Mississippi during Jim Crow.

OK, I can see how you may missed a proper public school education in basic constitutional rights.

That still does not excuse you.

[SargeUNN]

45. pathetic

You really aren't good at communications so I will just not give you any credibility. Too bad you might have a thought worth hearing but too involved in ambushing listening to see how to communicate it. This type listening is why republicans are going to the extreme they are and getting away with it. I strongly suggest you learn to communicate without trying to show your ignorance by insulting people.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. "You really aren't good at communications "

Says the guy still failing at arguing his case well after he's been proven wrong.

[SargeUNN]

50. ok Genius

You really don't inspire me to try to have a discussion with you because you don't appear capable of climbing beyond a pre-schooler level. Grow up some then maybe we can have a real discussion. Otherwise I will just see you ID and skip it because it probably won't be mature enough to read.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

51. Oh no.

The guy who never passed Jr. High civics class and would gladly piss on the Constitution has a poor opinion of me.

Boo hoo hoo.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

37. Logic Fail

You assumption that burning Korans is some how treason is at best a non sequitor and more likely specious.

It is a deliberate sacrilege against islam but is still Constitutionally protected.

[TheKentuckian]

38. His act is burning a book Sarge. There is no inherent criminality in his action

You guys making these cases are making offense that someone "plausibly" could respond criminally to, is a crime it's self which clearly the logic doesn't hold up long without giving up on freedom of expression or liberty as a whole.

Freedom isn't easy, man. It's hard because it is worth it. There can't be protection from offense and have a free society.

You are better off demanding the troops be brought home because the nature of our society and the ones we occupy are too at odds for military action to do more good than harm.

[Rebubula]

40. I think...

...that you are wrong in your logic, but I like your passion.


Terry Jones is an asshole, but -luckily- that is not a crime

[David__77]

41. You are grievously mistaken.

That is a broad definition of treason indeed. Certain political forces also said that publicizing photos of sexual torture by US soldiers in Iraq was "treason" because if would inflame the anti-occupation struggle in Iraq. I strongly disagree with such reasoning.

[BolivarianHero]

42. People are stupid...

It takes a truly stupid person to believe that burning a Koran is a legitimate freedom but smoking cannabis is not.

[damntexdem]

46. Treason? Bullshit! Dubya and Cheney excelled at that.

Jones threatens an act of extreme immorality and stupidity. But it could be a criminal act only if burning without a permit results in a spreading fire that threatens life or property.

[pipoman]

49. If your logic prevailed

there would be many time the number of Democrats/Liberals/Progressives in jail for what you are talking about than any other single group.