The days of passing on your assets to your children are coming to an end

[beforeyoureyes]

I just found out that now 100% of my father's pension is going to cover his medicare supplemental insurance.

My parents have a lot of other resources, so they are okay and among the very fortunate people who have other fallback means. But, I was shocked that this was the case. My father worked hard to build a nest egg and he always hoped to pass something on to us, however watching the expense of medical, it looks like that may not happen. I have never had any feelings of entitlement to anything, but it does piss me off to watch his resources be stolen to prop up the corporate insurance and pharmaceutical leeches. 40 years of mill work to try and pass off a little bit of a better life to his kids and it is just sucked dry for the greed and profit of a few.

Our neighbor on Medicare and dying of lymphoma is putting her house on the market to pay for the excess medical bills. She is trying to sell her belongings and assets without her children's knowledge because she doesn't want to worry them. Her body is riddled with lymphoma and she is just going to start chemo and this is the shit she is worrying about. Her children won't inherit the family home, all the belongings are being sold to ensure the leech profiteering medical system will continue.

Here in MA, if you are on the Mass Health system and over a certain age, they have the right to take all your land and property and sell it to repay the system when you die.

The days of passing on property are coming to an end. For many there is no true ownership of anything, just a lifetime of work to have their property and resources taken at the end.

And, these are the lucky ones who have anything at all.

Nothing in the current health insurance reform bill will help this at all. The insurance companies wrote it, so that isn't exactly a big surprise.

It really seems as if the corporations have won.

[Hannah Bell]

1. wow, that's astonishing.

30 years ago i was shocked when it took all of my father's (small) pension + his social security + MORE for nursing home care. Eventually costs went up so much that the "MORE" was unaffordable.

things are much worse now.

[beforeyoureyes]

2. Yep, This isn't actual care just an insurance policy

All of his pension for an insurance policy.

[Hannah Bell]

16. grand larceny.

[damntexdem]

3. It appears that our assets are in a sling.

And we can no longer cover our assets.

[beforeyoureyes]

5. Very cute

:)

[NightWatcher]

4. get a creative accountant. we made it appear as though my grandad was broke before he passed

plan things ahead of time and you'll be ok

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. Key Point

Its called asset burndown and properly done it can protect much of their assets from state seizure after death. Start early.

[COLGATE4]

77. Really good advice.

You should check with your local Bar Association. They can give you names of qualified Elder Law Attorneys who are experienced in asset burndown and other legal means to protect many of your assets after death.

[Divernan]

142. My bar association does not recognize "specialists" in any area of law.

The lawyer referral service simply compiles a list of all lawyers who ask that their names be put on the list. When a person calls in asking for a lawyer, they are just referred to the next name up on the list. What you get are a lot of solo practitioners - often new lawyers who did not get hired by any firm and are desperate to make their student loan payments and will take ANY client they can get. You'll find yellow page ads where one lawyer of a tiny group of 2 or 3 lawyers claim to handle many areas of law - divorce, wills, DUIs, bankruptcy, medical malpractice, personal injuries of ALL kinds, custody, estates and trusts.

Elder law, particularly estate planning, with its interactions with tax law, is quite complex. Get on the web and google continuing legal education classes in Elder Law, or Elder Law sections of bar associations. Then cherry pick the names of lawyers who TEACH seminars on Elder Law, or are chairpersons of the Elder Law sections.

[Divernan]

140. The "look back" period was increased from 3 to 5 yrs. under W. Bush

Medicaid Look-back Periods for Transferring of Assets

If an elderly person anticipates the need for long-term care in a nursing home, it may be important to determine whether that person can qualify for Medicaid. Unlike Medicare, which is based on factors other than a person's income and assets, Medicaid is essentially a needs-based program. Medicaid is the only available long-term care program for many elderly who need nursing home care.

In order to reduce their assets sufficiently to be able to qualify for Medicaid, elderly people may transfer assets to others or into a trust. There are two essential time periods, the look-back period and the ineligibility period, that come into play when assets are transferred. Advance planning can be key if it's expected that a person might need Medicaid assistance to pay for long-term care.
Deficit Reduction Act

The Deficit Reduction Act (DRA) made several important changes to the Medicaid asset-transfer rules. The look-back period for asset transfers was extended from 3 years to 5 years and the start of the penalty period or ineligibility period for transferred assets was changed from the date of the transfer of assets to the date when the elderly person applies for Medicaid and is otherwise qualified for Medicaid, generally at the time he or she enters a nursing home. Simply put, one of the key requirements for Medicaid eligibility is that the elderly person lacks assets, meaning he or she can't afford to pay for nursing home care. However, Medicaid will look back 5 years to see if the elderly person transferred any assets for less than fair market value, and if so, will deny Medicaid benefits for a period of time (the ineligibility period) based on the amount of assets transferred.

The DRA took effect on February 8, 2006, but, because Medicaid is a joint federal and state program, the states are required to apply the DRA to their state programs. Some states will have to change their Medicaid rules, and many of those states aren't yet operating under the DRA. Therefore, be sure to find out the law in your state before making any decisions.
Look-Back Period

The look-back period is a balancing act between the government's need to be able to afford providing Medicaid and a person's desire to be able to leave their property to their heirs when they die. An elderly person can't simply give their property away and begin receiving Medicaid. The look-back period is the time preceding the person's application for Medicaid during which asset transfers will be scrutinized. The look-back period simply means that after a certain amount of time has passed, Medicaid doesn't inquire whether the elderly person gave away property. However, a transfer within the look-back period will be questioned and, if something of equal value wasn't received in return, a penalty will be applied, which will prevent the person from receiving Medicaid long-term care benefits until that penalty period expires. The look-back period is 60 months (5 years) for transfers under the DRA. In states that haven't yet implemented the DRA, it may be only 36 months for transfers (except if funds are transferred to a trust).
Ineligibility Period

The ineligibility period is a period of time during which Medicaid looks forward. The ineligibility period is triggered by transfers of assets during the look-back period and looks forward to determine a date when the person may become eligible for Medicaid. The ineligibility period begins after the elderly person applies for Medicaid and is seeking long-term care benefits. The length of the ineligibility period is calculated by dividing the total, cumulative, uncompensated value of the transferred assets by the average monthly cost to a private pay patient of nursing home care in the applicant's geographic area as of the date of the application for Medicaid. The best-case scenario is for the elderly person to transfer assets and remain healthy and out of a nursing home until the look-back period has been exceeded. That way, in the eyes of Medicaid, the person has the minimal amount assets that will allow him or her to qualify for Medicaid. If only it were so simple to follow that plan.

Example

This basic example illustrates the need for effective and early planning in order to allow the look-back period to expire before applying for Medicaid, so that there will be no ineligibility period.

After Archie's death, Edith gave her vacation home to her daughter Gloria. The market value of the home was $200,000 and the monthly cost of nursing home care was $5,000. Edith's ineligibility period is therefore 40 months ($200,000/$5,000 per month = 40 months). The ineligibility period begins to run when Edith applies for Medicaid and seeks long-term care assistance, and expires 40 months from that date. However, if she gives the house to Gloria more than five years before her application date, the look-back period would have expired, and there would be no penalty period imposed.

Prior to the enactment of the DRA, the ineligibility period would have started on the date that Edith gave the vacation home to Gloria. This is one of the changes of the DRA, shifting the ineligibility period by starting the period when Edith applies for Medicaid, which is later than when she gave the home to Gloria.

As you can see, it's important to begin planning so that when the elderly person needs Medicaid, any transfers of assets will predate the look-back period and there will therefore be no ineligibility period. Remember, during this period of change in the law, be sure to check your state laws because how the transfer of assets impacts Medicaid eligibility may vary from state to state.
Questions for Your Attorney

* Does our state already comply with the DRA?
* How does our state define assets?
* Are any of the transfers of property "exempt"?
* How do transfers of property between spouses affect eligibility?
* What's the maximum amount of assets that a person can retain in our state and still qualify for Medicaid?
* What's the cost of nursing home care in this area?
* Are there any criminal penalties if I transfer assets in order to qualify?
* What's the "ineligibility period" in my case?
* How can I find out what data was used by the state Medicaid agency to determine the ineligibility period?
* How can I challenge the Medicaid-calculated ineligibility period?
* If an elderly person is eligible, how can we begin receiving benefits?

[AnArmyVeteran]

83. Can't you just take everything out of savings and hide it?

The way the law is set up it is better if you were completely financially irresponsible through life. It seems as if you could just withdraw everything from your 401Ks and savings and say you lost it gambling or something. That way you'd be able to get free government healthcare because you would look on paper like you're a pauper.

The HCR bill is a joke without a public option or universal coverage. As many in this thread have stated, the money people have saved their entire lives will be taken by the wealthy ruling class. All money goes uphill in this country to the rich. The poor have nothing. The middle class will have everything taken from them. And the rich will continue to get richer.

Capitalism is a huge disincentive to ever do anything productive unless you're one of the extremely fortunate few who manage to make hige fortunes either legally or by illegal & immoral means. What is maddening are the millions of conservative extremists who worship capitalism as if it was their god and believe CEOs are the disciples of their 'god'. They don't even realize they are being led to slaughter by the very evil system that seeks to destroy them.

When will people wake up?

[Mimosa]

109. We're screwed, AnArmyVeteran.

This is a terrible situation. :(

[Uzybone]

6. welcome to the world of many minorities

sucks doesn't it.

[Number23]

57. I was just about to post the same thing.

:thumbsup:

[gratuitous]

7. Don't worry; the Hiltons and the Bushes will still have money left over

So their progeny won't have to worry about where their next meal is coming from. But why are you so greedy and that you want to cheat some poor insurance company CEO out of a yacht? Where's your humanity? Don't you care about how embarrassing it is for a Titan of Industry to pull into the marina in last year's yacht? Oh, the shame of it all! Just because you don't want your father to be penniless, you selfish so-and-so.

[CoffeeCat]

41. I was thinking the SAME THING!

I am glad someone had the guts to say it. Those poor yacht owners. They've done nothing wrong
but succeed, and everyone wants to punish them. I mean really. And pulling up in last year's
yacht may sound superficial to most, but it would be the equivalent of one of you wearing your
great-great-great grandfather's hand-me-down clothes.

Why cause such horrible pain?

We need to embrace the yacht owner. Love him. Don't burn that bridge. Perhaps one day, when we're
all homeless and burning our clothes for warmth--we'll want to polish his yacht for a quarter, so we
can purchase a cup of coffee.

Be smart people! Just because you worked hard all of your life is no reason to be bitter when all of that
money goes to someone who wants to buy emerald-encrusted rims for their pink Bentley.

Love...not hate!

[bvar22]

72. We can't "begrudge them their wealth".

They are just "savvy businessmen".
"Look at all the baseball players".
"Its the Free Market".



Guess who?

[Ghost Dog]

144. Yeah. Just think of all those emerald-encrusted rim manufacturers

and installers, and polishers, and...

Without such stimulus life would be simply meaningless, after all, wouldn't it?

















Would it?

[thetonka]

8. Health Insurance is NOT Health Care

As long as we keep defining Health Care by what is and is not a current individuals Health Insurance things will continue to get worse and worse.

My BIL will be filing for Bankrupcy soon, and there is a slim chance I may lose my house(he owns part of it and if the hospitals feels its worth it they could foreclose).

Would have been nice if the government had spent less time arguing and looking for ways to pay back their buddies and more time working on real reform that would have actually help the people in this country.

The Health Insurance Reform our government forced on us is just going to make things worse.

[Scruffy1]

137. They can place a lien-they can't foreclose.

[HockeyMom]

9. Who has anything to pass on?

We will be working until we drop dead. Even the house isn't paid for because of offshoring 3 times in the past 20 years.

[Capitalocracy]

32. I'm so poor I'll be lucky

if I ever feel my financial situation justifies creating someone to pass something on to!

[bluescribbler]

114. Amen

I will turn 60 next year. I don't see how I will ever be able to retire, never mind passing on wealth to my heirs.

[pecwae]

59. Seriously.

I'll be happy just not to pass on any debt to my child.

[JJ]

129. fortunatley, debt cannot be passed on...

YET!

[Marthe48]

10. Very unfair

My husband retired early, and had health benefits with the contract he retired under. Low and behold, the company declared bankruptcy, a federal judge allowed ORMET to reopen the contract and now my husband is paying over 50% of his pension for health coverage. And all of the co-pays, etc went up. Before he got screwed, we paid about $1200.00/yr for medical attention, now we pay over $7000.00/yr and its all for the ins. And I am sure it will go up, because the insurance company is a blood-sucking POS. While we planned for his early retirement, we didn't plan to have to pay 20% of any medical tests, hospital, etc. He went to the ER once, was admitted overnight, and had to pay 800.00, for less than 12 hrs under the hospital roof. Just to keep our savings intact, we do the least we can to try to keep from giving these rapacious bastards our money. So, $7000.00+ for 4 dr. visits, 5 generic and 1 brand prescription for 2 people for 1 year. And by the republican judge who allowed it, it is legal.

If your loved one does qualify for Medicaid, in some states, there is a provision that the state can make a claim against the estate to repay costs for your loved one's care. So the vultures get the pension you worked for, the property you own and probably working on getting your first born child.

When somebody came up with the idea that medical care was a "product" rather than humane treatment a trained professional gave to a person who needed it, health care changed into a life-sucking demon. Until it changes back to humane treatment, I'm not interested.

Well, you do have my sympathy, for sure.

[thetonka]

14. See, IMHO, this is the problem

"So, $7000.00+ for 4 dr. visits, 5 generic and 1 brand prescription for 2 people for 1 year."

This is COMPLETELY out of wack. Noone buys home owners insurance to cover painting the house. Noone buys car insurance to pay for oil changes. Insurance is a gamble against really bad things happening. As long as we expect insurance to cover basic medical the costs are going to skyrocket, and for most they will not be worth it. Defining Health Insurance(and thus Health Care like most do) as a for profit gamble that covers all Health Care is just a guarantee that abuse and greed will reign.

Take the risk, greed, and profit out of basic Health Care decisions, it's the root of the problem.

[JoeyT]

103. No one buys homeowners insurance to cover painting the house

because painting the house doesn't generally cost tens of thousands of dollars. When's the last time you had a six thousand dollar oil change?

Anything that isn't very minor (Flu, weak bacterial infection, sprain: That kind of stuff)costs a fucking fortune now.
Once you go beyond a 10 minute doctor visit and a prescription that has a generic alternative, you're dancing dangerously close to bankruptcy for most people. Even that can be enough to do it.

When you make $400 a week before taxes (And many don't make that) and have a minor medical problem and the doctor charges $200+ to see you, $200+ for an X-Ray, $100+ to read the X-Ray, and your medicine can cost hundreds: You either use insurance for a trivial matter or you have to choose between eating/house/utilities and healing for the next two months. If you're lucky enough to have insurance, that is. And that's trivial shit with someone that makes more than minimum wage getting 40 hours a week and using the low end of the price range.

At this point the only thing that will make the medical system work for people again is single payer. Anything else is just gathering more people into the Chosen to help shout down those that aren't given access. A public option that acted as a backdoor single payer would have also worked.

[JJ]

131. exactly

I vaguely recall, there was a time when you could pay a doctor's visit out of pocket (but not with a chicken)

[area51]

89. +1

Each day, 273 people die due to lack of health care in the U.S.; that's 100,000 deaths per year.

We need single-payer health care, not a welfare bailout for the serial-killer insurance agencies.

We don't need the GingrichCare of mandated, unregulated, for-profit insurance that is still too expensive, only pays parts of medical bills, denies claims, and bankrupts people. Republinazi '93 plan:

"Subtitle F: Universal Coverage - Requires each citizen or lawful permanent resident to be covered under a qualified health plan or equivalent health care program by January 1, 2005."

"We will never have real reform until people's health stops being treated as a financial opportunity for corporations."

[CrispyQ]

11. The three greatest myths the republicans foisted off on dumb Americans:

1. tax cuts for the rich will create jobs,
2. the media is liberal,
3. republicans are compassionate conservatives.

I'm am sorry for your hardships. And yes, it does seem as if the corps have won.

[markbark]

12. This is the REAL "Death Tax" n/t

[Capitalocracy]

31. An emphatic +1

[Bryn]

13. I am in same boat

I am my mother's sole caretaker and have POA. I just found out that her medicare/insurance won't be paying for her meds for her dementia and heart because she has reached the gap or donut hole, whatever it's called...now she has to pay a full price for her meds $452.00 per month. We don't have that kind of budget. Before that she paid 109.00 and they paid the rest. She has Medicare, Plan D for drugs & Blue Cross/Blue Shield as supplement yet she has to pay full prices for her meds until she reaches 3,600. I was told our government will close that gap next year. :(

[Gormy Cuss]

23. The donut hole is one of the stupidest "reforms" ever.

It's not as if the seniors are asking for more meds just for fun after all.

[karynnj]

87. Closing the donut hole - partially was the reform

The donut hole was in the original Bush era bill.

[Gormy Cuss]

115. Yes, and it was cast as reform in the Bush era bill

thus my calling it that.

[SharonAnn]

122. That was the GOP solution to ensure that Big Pharma made maximum $$$

They could've permitted Medicare to negotiate drug prices and the plan would've cost less but then Big Pharam would've made less money.

It's all about the GOP and Big Pharma in this case.

[1monster]

15. Then the way around that is to deed the property to the children while one is still

alive and work out a legal lease that allows one to stay in the home rent free and covers necessary maintenance for the rest of one's life...

Of course that doesn't solve the problem of the cost of insurance that is supposed to cover health care and doesn't. I have no answers for that. I tried to get health insurance separate from my husbands and the only offer I was given was $600 a month with an $8,000 deductible and 50% coverage. I figured no insurance was a better bet. I'll keep my $600 a month or other necessities of life, and die early if some expensive disease strikes me.

[marybourg]

22. Nor does it solve the problem of your children losing the house to a divorce,

underinsured traffic accident or business dispute .

Once you "sign over" some interest in your home it's not yours any more and you can't tell the judge later "I only did it to cheat the state". I won't even address the ethics of such a maneuver.

[flvegan]

33. Life Estate.

That deed/stay in the home rent free is called a Life Estate. It is an excellent idea.

[shanti]

45. self-delete

[indepat]

18. Sucked dry for the profit and greed of a few: the mantra of the GOP deliriously

supported by seemingly tens of million of ignoramuses metaphorically cutting off their own noses to spite their own faces. ;)

[marybourg]

19. I was under the impression that the purpose of saving during your

working years was exactly so that you could pay for your medical and other care when you are old and not have to rely on others. None but the aristocracy were accustomed to "passing on" assets to their children.

When you don't have enough saved, and your children can't or won't help you, and you have to turn to the other taxpayers of your state to pay for your care, of course you should pay the state back out of whatever estate you held on to during your life and it should not go to your children until the other taxpayers are reimbursed. Wherever did this outsized sense of entitlement come from??? I'm shocked to read this on "Democratic" Underground.

[Gormy Cuss]

20. Unfortunately most people have lost sight of that and Medicaid is underfunded.

When people tell me that they managed to transfer all assets so that their old folks can get Medicaid I thank them for making it harder for poor children and truly indigent seniors because that IS the tradeoff -- and their elders have far less choice about quality care when Medicaid is footing the bill.


Provision of long term care should be as fundamental as universal health care but it isn't. That's our reality.

[defendandprotect]

44. The Medicare POOL is too small . . . every American should be in Medicare --

and we should have negotiation on drug prices --

Keep in mind, as well, that Medicare covers eye care -- but not dental!!

Americans need universal health care -- which is total!!

[Gormy Cuss]

69. Medicare doesn't pay for long term care, which is silly when one remembers its typical participant.

Again though, that's reality, just like the peculiar way dental and basic eye care are excluded from most health insurance plans in this country.

[Marthe48]

26. it was a lot easier to do that when it didn't cost an arm and a leg

About 20 years ago, I read that the US was approaching the greatest transfer of wealth from one generation to the next-which I took to be a sign of a healthy middle class. Now it seems the transfer of wealth is not from my parents' generation to their children, but my parents' generation to insurance companies and hospitals. That's what we're talking about, isn't it? The original post was that beforeyoureyes's dad was paying 100% of his pension for insurance coverage. That means the money intended for groceries, house maintenance, car insurance, utility bills is no longer available for those, but JUST IN CASE a health problem or emergency occurs, Dad and Mom won't end up wracked with medical bills. So the Dad worked his butt off in a mill, and the mill offset its promise of a secure retirement and got 40 years of work in exchange for broken promises.

It isn't entitlement, it is working hard your whole freaking life, and having what you EARNED taken away. I'm with 1monster--if I get a horrible disease, I'll die young.

[marybourg]

27. It was only easy to do for about 40 years of post-war prosperity

from 1960 - 2000.

For most of human history working class and lower middle class people did not expect to pass money on to their children. Their children were just happy if they didn't have to support mom & dad in addition to supporting their own kids. And they most certainly did not expect the rest of society to pay their medical bills.

[Ghost Dog]

29. On this "little" detail I think you are wrong,

if you don't mind me saying so:

It's my understanding that, in most cultures, throughout most of human history, most "ordinary", able, people would have considered a "state of affairs" in which they found themselves unable to do what is natural, ie. to look after both children and ageing parents/grandparents to the best of their abilities (and, indeed, further, to be part of a larger mutually-supportive clan, tribe and/or community), to be a cause of great unhappiness for all concerned, and a clear sign of a sick, very sick society...

[Selatius]

62. Most cultures, historically, supported extended family living for this reason.

The burden of caring for the elderly was borne by all, if only for the fact that the elderly still had wisdom to impart to all, and in the final sense, you really can't put a dollar figure on that kind of resource.

[Ghost Dog]

66. Indeed, Selatius.

Please let me know if there's anything (more) I can do to try to help you, and other fine people like yourself.

:dead straight:

Edit: (Before the US ship definitively, irreparably, goes down, you understand).

[daleanime]

94. Pray for us...

can't hurt.

[Ghost Dog]

143. For sure.

[Marthe48]

30. I was actually talking about paying for insurance

My grandmother for instance, paid way under 1000.00/yr for her Blue Cross. I know many multi-generational families living in 1 home, with each generation contributing to the well-being of the family. That's the reality of many families and it is a tradition brought from many cultures. I've met people from all over the world, and it isn't common for the kids to leave home until they are actually married. The younger generation cares for the older one when the time comes. There is no question about being a burden or taking responsibility. In previous times, the life expectancy was much lower than it is now and the children didn't have to care for their elderly parents for long. That was back when the elderly were cherished. I would much rather see the money I pay in taxes go for universal health care than killing people in other countries.

[JJ]

134. makes it right????????????

For most of human history, a large percentage of children died in infancy. I suppose we ought to go back to that too?

[NashVegas]

100. 20 Years Ago

When those books about the upcoming transfer of wealth were being published, best believe there were others, less widely-published, that listed ways to get a cut.

[defendandprotect]

43. That impression died with the greed of the health care industry...

and its theft and outrageous pricing -- and profits!

Could you afford your health care without Medicare?

Though I think your argument about "paying the state back" is a good one for the

tobacco and gun industry -- which has cost us so dearly!! $38,000 a gun wounding --

widespread cancers!!

And the oil industry which has so lavishly destroyed nature in the Gulf and so much

of the wildlife -- and the quality of live of those living there. What do you think

that might be worth?

Pay back? How about the bank crimes wave we've just one thru -- liar loans which

has brought on a landslide of foreclosures? Meanwhile, WE bailed them out!!

How about Wall Street and its reckless Casino game-playing vs any real investment?

How many "assets" have they stolen from average Americans? How many crashes have

destroyed the savings of Ameicans -- young and old alike? Should they pay a penalty

for that crimewave?

How about the pharmaceuitical companies who have so often ripped off Medicare??

Every last one of them according to Sen. Bernie Sanders. Large fines -- but never

barred from returning again to steal yet more from Americans with drug-pricing and

more and more harmful ingredients they call "medicines." How much should they pay?

According to the United Nations Human Manifesto . . .

food, shelter, clothing and medicare care are human rights!

PLUS I think we have a problem with the use of the word "entitlement" which is so

strongly connected with those who want to overturn safety nets and Social Security/

Medicare -- Citizens pay for Social Security -- along with their employers. The

government pays nothing -- simply administrates the program. It's a highly successful

program which runs large surplusses -- $250 billion a year ... which too often serves

as a slush fund for the elites!!

[Autumn]

75. Well see, entitlement is good for the

corporations, the rich and the government, not so for the middle class and poor. We should expect our assets to go to pay them back for what we have received.:puke: Makes me wonder why we are so stupid.

[Betty]

50. why do we pay into Medicare then?

I've been paying into it for close to 30 years. I am still too young to qualify but when I do, why would I have to "reimburse" the state when they've been taking my money all this time?

[Betty]

51. why do we pay into Medicare then?

I've been paying into it for close to 30 years. I am still too young to qualify but when I do, why would I have to "reimburse" the state when they've been taking my money all this time?

[marybourg]

55. I think you're confused between Medicare and Medicaid. nt.

[Art_from_Ark]

56. In case you haven't noticed, we haven't had an official aristocracy

in the US since the late 1700s. However, we have had these things called "wills" since the inception of this country and even before. Wills have served as a means of distributing the deceased's assets/estate to his/her heirs and other parties. Average Americans have been "passing on" assets to their progeny for centuries. I have no idea where you got this impression that inheritances were beyond the realm of us poor peasants.

[KamaAina]

81. The "outsized sense of entitlement" came from the previous several decades of prosperity

during which people not named Bush or Hilton were, indeed, able to pass on assets within the family. This was known as "wealth creation".

And that is what is coming to an end before our eyes. :(

[OnlinePoker]

133. Barron Hilton is giving 97% of his estate to his late father's Foundation

While the kids won't be hurting, they will have to make do with $72 mill split between them. If he dies after 31 December, that part of the estate will still get taxed as part of the "Death" tax, I believe, when it is reinstated.

[ProudDad]

117. "Wherever did this outsized sense of entitlement come from???"

It came from the genetic blueprint that human beings evolved over the past 200+ centuries...

Humans were Communitarian until the recent experiment in dominator hierarchy and the dog-eat-dog world began; about 10,000 years ago...

Communities of human beings took care of one another as a tribe or village. The weakest was taken care of by the strongest because that enhanced the survival of the entire community...

Then, about 10,000 years ago, the strongest decided to lock up all of the resources and lord over the weaker members of society by doling out crumbs from their table to those who "toed the line".

The USAmerikan sick care system is a symptom of this diseased, mean-spirited, dying experiment in the dog-eat-dog system that is mercifully ending.

The only real question is whether humans (and other large air-breathing mammals) will survive the experiment.

We are all entitled to take care of one another according to our abilities to do so and be taken care of in our times of need...


I'm shocked to see such republican "values" being blurted out on DU (not really, "democrats" have gone REALLY downhill over the last 35 years)...

[JJ]

135. Well said

n/t

[marybourg]

145. What we're talking about here is society trying to take care of

the needy, eg. Medicare and Medicaid, but people only PRETENDING to be needy so they can benefit from that system, then passing their assets on to their own progeny, thumbing their noses at the rest of society. That's democratic? or Democratic?

[Grinchie]

120. What people don't realize is the quality of life issue..

I have sen people with the most amazing end of life care insurance, where everything is funded, including in home care so they can continue smoking their little cigarettes in the privacy of their little apartment, full of personal memories from a full life.

But the reality is that they are subjugated to prescription after prescription, drug after drug, which inevitably kills them, along with smoking and poor diet.

The medical system has ways to make that fancy, cadilac insurance policy do nothing more than speed up renal failure, dementia, and ultimately death in order to save money on payouts.

The poor soul that planned on a dignified end of life is pushed straight into hospice and all the home care goes away while they wait to die.

Nobody really thinks about the nasty quality of life issues that arise when systems start to fail. Unfortunately, the medical system is quite happy to keep people that should move on to the next phase of life alive in the present. Life support, keeping the elderly in a prison of rotting flesh.

We definately do wear out. What's the matter with death? People actually believe the Corporate propaganda that they alone can keep you "Healthy", which is a facade.

[JJ]

132. assuming that is sarcasm

at least I hope it is.

[Odin2005]

21. Unless you are one of the superrich elites.

[cbdo2007]

24. Fine with me. The last thing I need is a battle with my siblings over my parents crap.

Even money, I would be happiest if they gave it all to charity or something.

[flyarm]

63. too badsome young people think all their parents belongings and lifelong accumulation is "CRAP"

Some people actually have sentimental value for what you call "CRAP"...and reminders of what those before them, did for them!

I treasure what i have from my deceased parents. I treasure the items with all my heart!

[cbdo2007]

70. Typically stuff of sentimental value has little monetary value...

which is what the post is referring to.

Of course I will treasure a few boxes full of my parents old pictures and some personal items but the last thing me and my siblings need is to fight over their baseball card collection worth $100,000 because nobody is going to think it's fair no matter how its split up.

I have specifically requested that my parents leave me nothing of value, either money or items, because I don't want all the other stuff that comes with it.

[gophates]

25. I'd be good with that if the money went to the common good, not a corporation.

This is worse than letting the rich little bastards keep what they haven't earned.

[asdjrocky]

28. What assets?

The banksters have all the assets now.

[flvegan]

34. I wish I could tell you what I'm seeing here with reverse mortgages.

Nothing short of predatory lending, failure to properly inform...just sad.

[defendandprotect]

37. Which part of it is the biggest scam?

and is the real estate industry involved in any way -- appraisals?

[flvegan]

39. In theory, a reverse mortgage can be not only legit, but a great thing.

But I've seen certain mortgage brokers (not all, mind you...a select few) and I'm auditing a slew of HUDs from them right now and it's just shocking what these predators are "stealing" from these folks. Closing costs of $15-20k, and not to pay off prior mortgages or liens. Just to put the loan through. The lure of a lump sum and/or monthly income I guess is so strong that it's just an easy sell. Of course, this being Florida, you'd expect it to be prime for predation on elder citizens.

[defendandprotect]

47. Unimaginable . . .!!

Would seem like the states, again, should be stepping in to help seniors??!!

Imagine the economy is doing this -- and dropping value of Social Security --

in fact, any dollar bill anyone had post-Bush was worth only 50 cents, IMO!

And, presume Florida housing prices are still dropping as they are elsewhere?

Thanks for the info --

[flvegan]

49. Housing prices here are lower than they have been in decades.

Problem is, at least here, I don't see anyone (who won't benefit) setting up a workshop for seniors about reverse mortgages. And naturally, nobody is looking out for them. Just dangle that carrot. It's obscene, really.

[defendandprotect]

53. Are the houses moving at all -- and, if you know ....

who's buying them?

I hear the interest rates are 3.8+% for 30 year -- and 2.39%+ something if you can

do 15 years -- that's what I heard here in NJ.

Imagine quite a bargain for some but also seem to be getting the idea that couples

who might have been looking for a house a few years ago don't feel as secure right now?

My sister's son and his wife -- two incomes -- bought a house in CA about two years ago

and he's lost his job and looks like they might lose it.

So, overall, maybe more than one round on these houses changing hands if economy

continues to worsen??

thanks for the reply --

[flvegan]

54. Moving? Some are. There are some great deals out there.

If I had a pile of cash in the bank, it would all be going into Florida real estate right now, lets just leave it at that.

Hedge fund managers agree with me, from what I've seen.

[flyarm]

64. the only people I see buying in my area of Fla is by foreigners! many from the UK

funny how they can get mortgages but Americans can not.

[jwirr]

85. It is the states that administer Medicaid and asked for this change. nt

[Alcibiades]

101. Appraisals do need to be exposed

When we bought our house two years ago, it was assessed for taxes in February for 212,000. Fortunately, there was a motivated seller, they listed at 205,000, and accepted our offer of 201,000. When our bank did their appraisal, miracle of miracles, it was exactly 201,000. Worked for us, the seller, and the bank, but the question has to be asked--how did this miracle happen? Because the appraiser found exactly the three homes out of the hundred or so that had sold in the area that would get that value. These homes had little in common with ours, other than being within a six-mile radius. There were much more comparable homes nearby, but this is an area with a very good school, and the market had only started to decline, most of the truly "comparable" houses sold for much more per square foot than we paid. For some reason, the bank didn't want to give us this equity for free, so all the numbers matched. Except for the tax value, which I'm not going to argue with in any event, because that's the money that pays for my kid to go to school.

My stepbrother out in Cali, a yuppie type, sold his house near Sacramento for a tidy sum, then bought a house near the coast for 900k. Then he did a whole bunch of work on it and got it reappraised near the top of the market at something like $1.6 million. He didn't add any amenities he actually needed or would use, mind you: he did all the things that "the market wanted" to increase the value of his home. New appraisal in hand, he borrowed against the inflated value of his house. Now he's massively upside down, owing well over a million on a house appraised at $1.6 million that no one has ever paid that kind of money for. He stopped making mortgage payments, even though he can afford them, because he's under the impression that poor people have been doing this and they get bailout, so he will, too. For all the Rick Santelli outrage about people buying houses they cannot afford, little of it is directed at folks like my stepbrother, but they probably do a lot more damage to the system than low-income folks.

[defendandprotect]

35. This is what capitalism exists for ... transfer of wealth to elites --

Consider over the last two decades how many homes have been lost to pay for

kids college expense -- and now foreclosures over and over again -- it's all

about transferring middle class wealth to the already wealthy!!

The most despicable, IMO, is this health issue -- how does Obama sleep at night?

I used to ask that about the GOP fascists -- now I have to ask it about Obama!!!

And, they don't stop -- if they can get every last penny, they'll go for it!!

[Panaconda]

36. I'm sorry

Only large groups of people taking direct action can resolve such situations. Our government does not represent us.

I'm truly sorry, that sucks.

[defendandprotect]

38. Well, you're right of course . . . but in Great Depression . . .

they hadn't hustled the poor and homeless off the streets -- as they do now!

And, people were turning from the two parties to Communist Party -- and

populists were speaking out and generating a lot of discussion re Social Security

and Unemployment programs. I'm not sure I know enough about the history of that

time, but do recall that the WWI vets went to DC to push for the bonuses promised

them and they were met with violence by our government -- think that's right??

Maybe we need Michael Moore clubs instead of John Doe Clubs?

And, besides going to DC there are tons of ways we can show our unity, our power

and our strength if we would simply have the sense to unite!!

Women, labor, seniors, unemployed, homeless, those who need medical care, impoverished --

plenty of us!!

One thing I do remember . . . despite all the capitalistic crime of that period -- the

"Robber Barons" and the "Greedy Wealthy" .... somehow the Depression was remembered as

just a "failure of the markets" -- !!! Am I wrong there??

The Crime and Greed all washed away!

[Panaconda]

42. How it was remembered

and what actually happened are often two different things.

"How it was remembered" in your example is how it has been taught (called propaganda). Memory can be distorted by cultural conditioning, usually is.

The markets were salvaged, they succeeded so to speak, and most folks equate that as a good thing.

The markets continue "to work" today to the detriment of us all. The markets are ensconced and hallowed in the public mind only due to much confusion and extraordinary amounts of brainwashing.

"Our" (it's not actually ours by the way) government always meets social unrest with violence which gets back to my main point, our government does not represent us.

[defendandprotect]

48. Completely agree with you -- !!

Thanks for the response --

:)

[Octafish]

40. Unless you're a 'Have-More.' Then you get to keep the whole thing. with no Estate Tax.

Trust Funds babies. Gotta love 'em, even when they're killing us. And because they control the things, it's the law.

CIA = Capitalism's Invisible Army.

Thank you for a great OP. And a most hearty welcome to DU, beforeyoureyes.

[leeroysphitz]

46. That's ok. The days of having assets to pass on have been over for a while.

[totodeinhere]

52. I know someone who pays $143 monthly for good Medicare supplement insurance.

Perhaps your father should shop around for a better deal on his insurance.

[SoCalDem]

58. Thom Hartmann did a show a while back that mad ethe same point

He said that this will be the BIGGEST transfer of assets EVER..

In order to purchase a few more years of life, people will have to sign over all their assets to the "medical" providers, and then pray that they do not outlive those assets.

Of course our "success" at medical breakthroughs is partly responsible.. My grandparents had all passed away before I turned 15, and I know people in their 60's whose parents are still alive (and relatively active)..

My mother inherited property from her parents at age 32, and that's rare these days.

Even though people are medicated in order to live longer, I can't help but think that a lot of the med-corps are more than happy to milk every penny they can from people who can no longer save for their old age, because they are already there, and are having to blow through all their savings..

The alternatives are bleak though.. people do want to live as long as possible, and if they have assets, many are willing to pay whatever it takes to hang on as long as possible. The costs get really high as we get older, so inheritances are going to the med-providers..not the kids:(

[Iggo]

60. Goddam gub'mint!

:rofl:

[Obamanaut]

61. Isn't it possible to transfer all of one's assets to one or more of the

children, and when the time comes for medicare/medicaid there are no physical assets to grab.

Live in the same house if nursing home is not necessary.

[JCMach1]

68. There is usually a timer on this in most states. Most people don't plan that far in advance

Annuitys and living trusts are the way to go even if it is a small nestegg.

[jwirr]

86. It is possible but there is a time line that must be followed. Used to

just a few months before going into a nursing home - now is at least 5 years before. The real way around it is to take care of your own parents before they have to turn to Medicaid. Then they do not have to pay anything back and they still get their social security checks to help with their care. Many areas also have good home health programs that help you take care of them.

[TBF]

65. They only win if we stop fighting. nt

[JCMach1]

67. It's called get an annuity before you get ill...! It is unattachable, because

in most states it counts the same as insurance. Plus, you can decide when it would start paying out.

[lonestarnot]

73. An insurance salesman. I knew it. Annuities are shit.

[T Wolf]

92. YES THEY ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Total shit. Just a mechanism by which the agents can churn fees.

They are typical of the financial schemes that the crooks have dreamed up.

Stay away from them.

[lonestarnot]

147. Run for your life! Just like RUN FOR YOUR LIFER Andria Mitchell.

[glinda]

71. My mother's medical bills are now the price of her house. She still thinks

in terms of "that there should be inheritance" for us. LOL!

[jwirr]

88. My grandmother ran away from the nursing home to go back to her

house long after it was sold for her care. We in the family that would have inherited had first chance to buy it if we wanted but we were not angry because we didn't get that inheritance. We understood that someone has to pay those bills. When my mother died in the nursing home all the little amount of money in her accounts went directly to Medicaid to pay for the cost of her care. It may go to insurance companies now but when this program started it was to pay back the government.

[glinda]

97. that is sad

[jwirr]

110. She had Alzheimer's disease and got herself lost. Yes, it was sad

that she would still be longing for that home and it was gone. Believe me she could not have stayed there and none of us could handle her. I wanted to try but years later when my mother had the same disease I realized how much of a mistaken belief that was.

[Xenotime]

74. You can thank the wealthy for taking away most everything we have.

[xchrom]

76. recommend -- that the country is designing systems that prey on the people is a crime. nt

[bvar22]

78. Medical Bankruptcy = Obama's "Uniquely American Solution"

"Medical Bankruptcy" is a term unknown in every other civilized country In the WORLD.

"Medical bankruptcy does not exist in countries with universal health coverage like Japan, Canada, Great Britain, Taiwan, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Austria, Finland, and France, just to name a quick dozen.� But, here in the wealthiest, most powerful country in the world, medical debt forces many people into bankruptcy."

http://www.bankruptcylawnetwork.com/2009/11/25/medical-bankruptcy-is-no-myth/

" Medical bills are behind more than 60 percent of U.S. personal bankruptcies, U.S. researchers reported on Thursday in a report they said demonstrates that healthcare reform is on the wrong track.

More than 75 percent of these bankrupt families had health insurance but still were overwhelmed by their medical debts, the team at Harvard Law School, Harvard Medical School and Ohio University reported in the American Journal of Medicine.

http://blog.healthcareforamericanow.org/2009/06/04/medical-bankruptcy-time-to-update-that-statistic/

Thank You, Obama & The "Centrist" Democrats, for this wonderful "Uniquely American Solution".
The HCR Bill was NOT a "step forward". It was a step BACK into the Gilded Age.
To fully appreciate how BAD the HCR Bill really is, simply compare it to what is taken for granted in the Civilized World!


"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[Mimosa]

111. Great post, BVar

Has anybody noticed that certain people who post a lot about HCR and how good it is are not posting on this topic?

[jannyk]

141. Great Post bvar!!!!

[old mark]

79. From our experience, to be eligible for any type of assistance for medical care,

youy must "meet income guidelines", which means you must be poor. If you have money or a home or more than one car or other finacial resources you may be expected to use them all before you can claim any type of help on medical bills, insurance, etc...this it the racket that has been designed to take the Boomer's money we managed to save for our retirement, and that we planned to pass on to our heirs...not to the medical care crooks.

We NEED single payer/Medicare for all insurance, not this bullshit private for-profit nonsense, and not income-related government programs.


mark

[jwirr]

80. You may get mad at me but I know why this is being done. I grew

up in Iowa where farms are often worth a million dollars or more. Back then the farmer would hand his farm over to his child and go on medicaid to pay for his stay in the nursing home. At the same time he was bitching about welfare clients. They were letting others pay for the cost of their care while handing over their wealth to their kids. It was determined that had to go. So anyone who was on medicaid (which pays for nursing home care) was expected to pay their own way instead of asking taxpayers to do it if they had capital to do it with. It seems that there is no other way to deter this kind of behavior.

[NashVegas]

105. One Way or Another, It Seems the Corps Are Going to Get That Farm

If junior doesn't want to farm, junior now has a million-dollar asset to sell and more often than not, these days he will.

Now the state gets to be the seller.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

82. It's looking more and more like

if my 89 year-old mom with dementia outlives my physically frail, but mentally intact 89 year-old father, she'll be moving in with me. I think we're braced for it.

[savalez]

84. See if you can put it into a Trust? Or inherit it before your parents pass on?

[T Wolf]

90. This is exactly why, when the time comes that I become a net drain on the finances

of my family, I will remove myself from the equation.

We are already turning over to our children a world far worse than the one we were born into.

It would be the epitome of selfishness to try and hang on for those last years, paying outrageous amounts that most cannot afford to insurance companies who do everything to deny us the medical care we need.

I cannot do much (or anything) about the state of the nation or world our children will live in.

But I sure as hell will not worsen their personal situation by becoming a financial burden.

So when the time comes that I, in terms the corporatists can understand, become a net cost, I will kill myself. I owe my children at least that much.

[Mimosa]

113. Why should we be forced to kill ourselves ? n/t

[T Wolf]

116. We should not. But that is the reality that the rich (of both parties) have created here in

Amerika.

I guess I should have picked richer parents. So all the blame is on me.

[bvar22]

119. My wife & I have made that pact with each other.

We own our house & property, and are living off our savings and what we can produce off our property (Big Veggie Garden, Domestic Berries, fruit trees, chickens, Honey Bees, local barter).
We cannot afford Health Insurance.
Neither of us has seen a doctor in 8 years.
Thankfully, we are both currently fit and healthy,
but if the worst happens,
we will take the next exit before giving away our home.

[WingDinger]

91. Spend down, not just for the aged anymore.

Industrially poisined, with knowledge, over decades, makes one spend down, just for any health care. And no, the ER just stabilizes. I must live the rest of my life as a beggar, so that industry can continue to use us as cannon fodder for profits.

[kenfrequed]

93. Of course...

The wealthy don't want the big bad government going into their estates even a little bit, but if it the insurance corporations they own then they want to loot everything they can get their damned hands on when you die.

[blindpig]

95. They have only won a game of their own devising.

We continue to play by their crooked rules and wonder why we can't win.:crazy:

Past time to change the rules.

k&r

[valerief]

96. The top 1% can still pass on their property to their chillun, and that's all that matters.

:grr:

[DeSwiss]

98. K&R

Won? Won what? The game makes no sense if they're the only one's left with something. There's no up without a down and you're not really rich if there are no "poors" to compare oneself to. Besides, that'll never happen before we all turn this sucker out! There are too many of us.

- It's time or a new paradigm.....

In the Bill of Rights of the United States, there is an attempt to secure certain freedoms and protections by way of mere text on paper. Now while I understand the value of this document and the temporal brilliance of it in the context of the period of its creation, that does not excuse the fact that it is a product of social inefficiency and nothing more. In other words, declarations of laws and rights are actually an acknowledgment of the failures of the social design.

There is no such thing as 'rights' - as the reference can be altered at will. The fourth amendments is an attempt to protect against state power abuse, that is clear. But it avoids the real issue, and that is: Why would the state have an interest to search and seize to begin with? How do you remove the mechanisms that generate such behavior? We need to focus on the real cause.

I’m not saying that laws and rights are not needed at this time. They certainly are. But we need to hone our focus toward solving the actual problems. And by the way for all the nationalists out there, I'm not attacking the US Constitution. However, it's not the answer. It's naive to think that this document has that much relevance. I am a fan of people like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinch, I believe that there is a place for the work that they do. But it's not the answer. The history of America is just like the history of every other country on this planet: It is a history of deception, fraud and corruption. There is nothing to 'return to' for the integrity was never there to begin with. We must move forward, not backwards.

We have to understand that government as we know it today, is not in place for the well being of the public, but rather for the perpetuation of their establishment and their power. Just like every other institution within a monetary system. Government is a monetary invention for the sake of economic and social control and its methods are based upon self-preservation, first and foremost. All a government can really do is to create laws to compensate for an inherent lack of integrity within the social order. In society today the public is essentially kept distracted and uninformed. This is the way that governments maintain control. If you review history, power is maintained through ignorance. ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPmHaTirnCc">Peter Joseph

[dotymed]

99. Pitiful. I know, I have heart failure.

I have been lucky being able to maintain my "temporary disability" insurance from the Union. It will not last until I die.
Sadly, if I attempt to work at any job, I will lose this coverage and be without insurance. I would die pretty quickly but miserably. My teen-aged son would be forced to watch.
If we had Universal health care (which is a no-brainer), I would at least be able to do some menial job somewhere. Believe me, the sick and disabled are discriminated against in employment. I have tried to obtain a job with benefits (I love carpentry, but am no longer able to do it). I have a Liberal Arts degree. I have been told, "off the record", that if hired, the procedures and medicine required to prolong my life, would greatly increase the companies insurance costs Of course, they(insurance companies) will not let anything stand in the way of their profits. Therefore, I am "unemployable" if I want to live, yet SS after 5 years, has not determined that I am totally disabled, of course my Dr.'s have.... WTF?
If I was wealthy, there would be "no problems."
The free market and a government that refuses me access to MY money, that I have paid into for decades are the answer.:sarcasm:
I still have to count my blessings. I know many human beings (Americans), who are terminal (Or just sick and need to be "fixed") that do not have insurance. They are forced to suffer and be unemployable until they die. SSI is often available if they survive long enough. But SSI as opposed to SSD (based on what you have paid ) is so little that people still cannot afford insurance.

[Orsino]

102. The real death tax...

...one that doesn't significantly affect the big estates.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

104. My MIL was poor to start with.

When it came time to arrange for additional services like in home help and possible nursing home care she registered
with their ALTEC program. It's designed for people without other resources. During the time she was with ALTEC she
was able to remain with her long time doctor. When she needed a hip replacement her doctor was one of the best in
Phoenix along with the hospital. She had a woman come in a half day every day to prepare meals, clean house, laundry
and pick-up prescriptions. All this provided by the state. She had to turn her asset over to them which was a joke
because she had so few they didn't even want them after she passed away.

I'm not sure what asset burndown is, but if your elderly loved one has a program like ALTEC available in their state I'd
highly recommend it. If

[kenny blankenship]

106. But rich people will take that money and innovate in the marketplace

creating the high tech high wage jobs of the future. They need all that money, now more than ever, and it's not fair for wage earning non-entrepreneurs to try and hoard it.

Or so Democratic Presidents keep telling me.

[Turbineguy]

107. Republican policies are still working

to fleece the middle class.

[Recursion]

108. Why should people get stuff just because their parents are rich?

If this keeps Medicaid more or less solvent, I consider it worth it.

[The Flaming Red Head]

112. They cheated my Mom out of my father's pension

back in the 80s. Not the hospital, but the company he worked for; if they don't get it one way then they'll get it another.

[Jakes Progress]

118. Not true.

The bushes and the cheneys and the reagans and the norquists will all pass on millions to their kids. Of course they make those millions by taking the money from thousands of other people,

[DesertFlower]

121. i've been eligible for medicare for a few years.

i've chosen to stay with hubby's insurance which has no lifetime maximum. i was checking into medicare and some supplemental policies, but it seems they HAVE a lifetime maximum. once you reach their maximum you're on your own. that's when the savings and house go.

[shimmergal]

123. Look into Medicare Advantage programs.

They've been roundly demonized lately, but what the critics fail to realize is that most senior citizens join because of just this sort of problem. Lots of us can't afford to pay such a premium for Medicare supplemental insurance. I dunno--insurance coverage which would cost $350/mo. and up here seems to be available in some localities for as little as $100/mo. And the Medicare Advantage programs vary, too, depending on where you live. But it might be worth exploring.

And as for sheltering your assets, what about buying property or other investments in some other country? Seems to me that even if medical creditors did sue (which would probably be a nightmare for them), a country that provides healthcare to all wouldn't be very sympathetic to such efforts to collect after the fact. Legal types, can you weigh in on this?

[Swamp Rat]

124. k&r

[kimmerspixelated]

125. Another reason to hate modern medicine!

Since the dream of universal health care is a fantasy, the reality is that we should all take our health into our own hands, by seeking alternative methods. Keep yourself healthy-say no to pharmas and find another way, quit masking symptoms and find out why you are ailing and correct it with diet supplements and energy medicine. Much cheaper, but basics SHOULD be taken care of universally-I'm still pissed about it!

[upstandingcitizens]

126. Well hell

there goes my retirement plan down the crapper....

[JJ]

127. Yeah, only the poor truly have a "Death Tax"

and we have to pay it to private corporations and it's usually 100%!

[edogawa]

128. My brother move to USA in 1969

and was a student in pharmacology and worked on a farm near Sacramento. He was just a poor student. After graduation he decided to take up farming for a living instead of pharmacy. He started with just 10 acres of almond trees and saved his money, living in very poor condition until today he own 600 acre with nuts, melons, grains,etc. But he gave up his Japanese citizenship and became American. Now he is very ill from cancer and his insurance and savings will be gone from his ilness. His insurance has limits. Now he tells me that after he dies, the American government will take 75% of his farm for tax so his children must sell farm to pay for the taxes. They `will recieve nothing from my brothers years of work and sacrifice. I love American and my wife is American, but I am keeping my Japanese citizenship so that I can get reasonable health care. I can always return to Japan in case of serious sickness. Japanese healthcare system is much better and much cheaper.

[Scruffy1]

136. This is not true

There is no federal estate tax, and farmers receive some special consideration in all states. The Farm Bureau has never been able to find one farm lost to estate taxes.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

130. gotta have assets first.

And the corporatocracy has won. Ain't no 'seems' about it.

They own everything. And the government. And You. And Me. And your kids. And their kids. And your little dog, too.

[October]

138. This has been going on for years. I've posted about my experience with my mom.

Here in PA, it's the same.

My mother was young (60) when she had a stroke during elective surgery.

In the end, the nursing home got everything. I had to liquidate all her assets and document every penny.

She awoke from her nightmare to realize she was half-paralyzed, could no longer read, and had no home, car, money, etc.

If she had wanted to leave any money to her children or grandchildren, she would have had to have done so 2 years prior to her stroke. I can tell you she wasn't thinking of that at age 57/58.

It was a nightmare. I had to do all the work, and the nursing home just TOOK.

[ejpoeta]

139. that's the reality for a lot of people. they end up having to spend down their assets

they have to have nothing so that they can get medicaid or if they go into a facility they have to sell everything. that's why this estate tax bs is such bs. the rich have plenty that they feel they should be able to give to their kids, but the rest of us can go to hell. the american dream.... i guess it's a dream for those of us who aren't in the 2%. people end up losing everything they've worked their whole lives for. a house... maybe a little in the bank...

[misanthrope]

146. For some of us, that's always been the reality.**nm

**