US Military BURNED the Christian Bible!

[USArmyParatrooper]

And now they adamantly defend Muslims from offensive acts of hate from an extremist pastor in Florida.

I actually found this debating with Chris Rodda from MRFF on Dailykos. She wrote an article about Soldiers in Afghanistan who were conspiring to "convert" Afghan nationals to Christianity. In fairness, what they were talking about doing was an exercise of epic stupidity. It was a legit story; however, in my opinion MRFF paints an over sensationalized and inaccurate picture religious freedoms in the US military. Do I think there are no legitimate concerns in this department? No. It's about frequency and scale where I disagree.

When higher command learned a bible study group in Afghanistan were planning to ship in bibles to pass out - the fried those bibles to a crisp.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/05/200952017377106909.html

US burns Bibles in Afghanistan row

Bibles at centre of row over Christian "proselytizing" in Afghanistan are "destroyed".

The US army in Afghanistan has burned Bibles printed in local languages, a US colonel in Afghanistan has said, amid concerns they could have been used to try to convert Afghans.

"My understanding is that the leadership confiscated these Bibles so that they could not be distributed around Afghanistan," Colonel Greg Julian told Al Jazeera on Wednesday.

"It was their best judgement at the time, that the best way to deal with it, was to destroy them and I understand that they were burnt."

Although this thread will likely spark some debate, I'm more or less posting this because I love irony.


Cheers!

[Obamanaut]

1. And there were no riots, or presidential announcements. nt

[gophates]

2. Now that's liberation I can get behind! NT

[johnaries]

3. Personally, I think all "Religious" books should be burned.

I believe in God. God is in your heart, not in some stupid book.

But, it offends a lot of people and doesn't do much for expanding mutual understanding.

In fact, as much as I hate many of these diatribes, I would consider "burning them" as a "hate crime" and would support prosecuting anyone who dares "burn them" in protest.

[Obamanaut]

4. . nt

[pinboy3niner]

5. Let the outrage begin!

Have they been stirring things up on the wingnut blogs yet? On hate radio?

I'm looking for Palin to tweet her in-depth commentary anytime now...

[USArmyParatrooper]

6. It's actually old news. It went vitually unreported.

I only found it because I knew the military would take swift action on such a stupid thing these soldiers were planning. I performed a Google search based on that criteria and found the story on al-Jazeera.

Make no mistake, the mission comes before all else. Some commanders are smarter than others, but it takes a special kind of stupid not to recognize passing out Christian bibles to Muslim Afghans would create a shit storm. MRFF wrote the story as if it was some grand, higher conspiracy to convert Afghanistan into a Christian nation.

[gophates]

23. I'm outraged.

They should have burnt a lot more of them.

[USArmyParatrooper]

25. Why the hate?

Do you feel the same about the quran?

Burning anyone's religious book out of spite is just hateful and wrong. Obviously the case in the OP doesn't apply.

[gophates]

28. Burn 'em all.

Dr. Dawkins is right. Religion has no place in modern society.

[Mojorabbit]

41. A right winger brought it up today on facebook

so it is out there.

[howard112211]

7. There is a difference between burning something to dispose of it and burning as a symbolic gesture.

Had the Army solemnly announced that they were holding a "Burning Ceremony" and stated that it was intended as a message about Christianity or towards Christians, there would be a story.

Old books get burned as trash everyday. It is not the same as when people pile them up to publicly burn them and gather around chanting and singing.

[USArmyParatrooper]

8. I wasn't claiming moral equivalency.

In fact, in this case burning the bibles was the right thing to do. The latest controversy reminded me of this story I dug up a long time ago. While it wasn't intended to make a comparative point, it's an ironic parody that nobody even knows about.

Don't read too much into it.

[jberryhill]

9. This has been a staple at Freeperville the last week

So what should one "read into it"?

In addition to the fact that the US military is not in the business of promoting any religion, and that efforts of some in the military to do so is damaging to the mission of the US military in that region, the status of the Koran in Islam is not the same as the status of the Bible in most major Christian groups.

It's a type of facile "turnabout is fair play" point, that ignores context, intent, and impact.

[USArmyParatrooper]

10. What should you read into it? Absolutely nothing.

Who made any reference to turn about being fair play? Did I not say what those soldiers were planning is stupid and that destroying those bibles was the right thing to do? Stop trying to drum up arguments that aren't even there.

Also, can you provide a link to freeper talking about the soldiers burning the bibles in Afghanistan? Thanks.

[jberryhill]

11. Sure

You just happened to remember it at the same time it was being kicked around in Freeperville

One Thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2586086/posts
U.S. military personnel burned Bibles last year in Afghanistan

Two Threads:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2586041/posts
Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan

Three Threads:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2585837/posts
U.S. military says Afghan bibles have been destroyed

Four Threads:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2585728/posts
Why did the US military confiscate and burn soldier's Bibles?

And more threads, without the links, because there are so many on THIS PARTICULAR story which you just happened to remember, that it takes too much time. Use "Bible" in the title search. Freeperville has been on a rage about this story, which you just happened to remember....

Gen. Petraeus and White House Oppose Koran Burning, but U.S. Military Burned Bibles in Afghanistan
09/08/2010 4:50:10 PM PDT · by Askwhy5times · 76 replies

U.S. Military Confiscated, Burned Bibles In Afghanistan
09/07/2010 1:22:42 PM PDT · by Amerisrael · 54 replies

All posted in the last few days, and you just happened to remember it, and aren't trying to make a "point" of any kind.

Yep.

They are having quite the discussion about it over there, so you may find a lot of folks eager to talk about it with you.

You claim to love "irony". Okay, so explain the "irony" here? It is "ironic" that people object to an intentionally hateful and provocative act which jeopardizes the image of the US in the ME, while in the meantime the Pentagon had taken action last year to stop a practice that was deemed to be provocative and jeopardizes the image of the US in the ME?

There's nothing "ironic" about it. The mission of the military in the ME is not to promote a particular religion, with the sole exception of changing the Iraqi constitution in which Iraq was a secular republic, to the new Iraqi constitution in which it is expressly an Islamic one.

So, please, don't let me misunderstand you. Explain how your love of "irony" relates to this story.

[USArmyParatrooper]

24. LMAO! I have some "just happens" for you.

- This post on Dailykos "just happens" to be discussing the same thing.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2009/5/25/7322/94805/123#c123

- It also "just happens" to be dated May, 25th 2009. That's OVER A YEAR AGO in case you're counting, long before this controversy. Can you find any other discussions about it on blogs for forums during that period?

- Hey, look! The person who posted it "just happens" to have the exact screen name as me!

But yeah, I "just happened" to stumble across this story visiting freeper and then posted it retroactively over a year ago on Dailykos. Before you go making accusations perhaps you better sharpen your detective skills. Because frankly, you SUCK at it.

This is the part where you pretend not to see this and then quietly walk away with your tail between your legs - hoping it just falls off the map.

You're dismissed.

[jberryhill]

29. You seem to have some aggression issues

Yes, the story happened a year ago. Duh. Even the recent freeper revival of this story refers to it having happened a year ago.

Yes, the wingnuts seem to be fond of dredging it up this week.

No, it does not require an "retroactive" posting to dredge up a story that you were apparently excited about at the time - as were the freepers who made a big deal about it then.

But why, in post 6 above, do you say:

"I only found it because I knew the military would take swift action on such a stupid thing these soldiers were planning. I performed a Google search based on that criteria and found the story on al-Jazeera."

Ummmm.... which is it? You posted it on DailyKos last year, or you "only found it because" you "performed a Google search". Did you forget that you posted it last year?

Make up your mind what your story is.

Frankly, I don't see what point you are trying to make.

Would you now care to explain your point about "irony".

You mentioned how much you love irony, so please point out where the irony lies.

[JonLP24]

30. Good catch

On the google search and DailyKos thing.

[USArmyParatrooper]

33. Yes, because finding it on Google and posting it on Dailykos totally contradict each other.

:crazy:

[msanthrope]

37. Your explanations do contradict.. Not surprisingly. n/t

[USArmyParatrooper]

38. Thank you for proving you don't believe what you say by typing "n/t" instead of elaborating

[msanthrope]

39. Keep digging. There are specific dimensions to the stone. n/t

[USArmyParatrooper]

40. And yet, *again* you fail to elaborate. Just like your next post won't either.

Even though I know you'll dodge the question....

How does posting it on Dailykos contradict with finding it on Google?

[USArmyParatrooper]

32. Wow you are digging

"No, it does not require an "retroactive" posting to dredge up a story that you were apparently excited about at the time - as were the freepers who made a big deal about it then."

You were accusing me of "just happening" to be reminded of this at the same time the freepers are all over this story. I was well aware of this A YEAR ago. And I found it on my own without ever seeing the story posted on any blog or forum. Can you substantiate freeper was talking about it a year ago? I wouldn't know because I don't visit their sight.

Next, in what way was it "apparent" that I was excited about it? I have said over and over it was the right thing to do. So I was "excited" in what way? Do you have something specific, or context maybe to back your assertion I was "excited" about it?

"Ummmm.... which is it? You posted it on DailyKos last year, or you "only found it because" you "performed a Google search". Did you forget that you posted it last year?

Make up your mind what your story is."

Wow. Is that like... supposed to be your grand finale? I posted it on Dailykos last year after finding it through a Google search. Fun fact for the day, Google existed last year. But according to you I have to choose between posting it last year and finding it through a Google search. As I said, give up your detective work because you SUCK at it.

"Would you now care to explain your point about "irony".

The irony is that Muslims living in Islamic theocracies are raining fire and brimstone shouting "death to America!" because some dumb, redneck pastor with about thirty members threatens to burn the quran (which, BTW, I strongly disagree with). But on the flip side... not only have actual government officials at the highest levels condemned the pastor, our top military brass in Afghanistan ordered boxes of Christian bibles to be burned (a direct parallel negating the mime that it's a Christian vs. Muslim thing).

[jberryhill]

34. I fail to see the irony

But I do have another question. How many "Islamic theocracies" are there, in your estimation?

There is not much irony in the fact that most adults in Afghanistan are illiterate. That they wouldn't have the foggiest notion of the US Constitution is not much of a shocker. It would take a long time to change that, even if we were serious about doing so.

If the point here is to chuckle about the wrongheadedness of uneducated illiterate people, I can go make fun of learning disabled kids at a nearby school.

There is nothing ironic about the fact that our military tends to have more enlightened leadership than the typical Afghan tribal village. Treating them as equivalent for the purpose of exposing an "irony" seems a but odd. Although your Kos comment seems to be primarily critical of the organization which blew the lid off the Bible thing in the first place.

[USArmyParatrooper]

35. Now I'm "chuckling" at them?

Let's run down the list here.

- You have accused me of repeating freeper talking points, a site I never go to. BTW, have you found articles from them talking about it a year ago yet?

- You accused me of arguing "turn about is fair play"

- You accused me of making shit up by pointing out a contradiction that really wasn't a contradiction at all.

- You accused me of 'getting excited' about the Soldiers burning the bibles.

Now you're feigning offense while accusing me of "chuckling" at Afghan nationals. Did I leave anything out? Do you ever consider thinking before you type?


I find irony in the enormity of the shit storm that pastor has caused after our own government has already lit boxes of Christian bibles up in flames. You don't find it ironic. Cool, I'm over it.

"Treating them as equivalent for the purpose of exposing an "irony" seems a but odd"

Wow, another BS accusation. I repeatedly said the pastor was wrong to burn the quran and the army was right to burn the bibles. But in your world that's "treating them as equivalent." Anymore you want to drum up?

"Although your Kos comment seems to be primarily critical of the organization which blew the lid off the Bible thing in the first place.

Yes, this is correct. I am critical of MRFF.

[msanthrope]

12. Ah yes--I noticed this being a hot topic at Freeptown for the last week, too. n/t

[jberryhill]

13. Freeper threads

It's amazing what passes for "normal" in some of those discussions.

[msanthrope]

36. Indeed, and when 'normal' doesn't pass here, the shock is apparent. n/t

[slackmaster]

17. Not if you're talking about the literal embodiment of the word of God

:nuke:

[jberryhill]

21. Consider the flag code

It's all about intent.

US flags that have reached the end of their service lifetimes are SUPPOSED to be burned instead of thrown out.

But if you burn a flag in protest, that's another story.

Now, down at the Bible printing company, I'm sure they deal with bad press runs all of the time.

[USArmyParatrooper]

27. That's impossible.

"Now, down at the Bible printing company, I'm sure they deal with bad press runs all of the time"

They're written by the hand of God.

[cleanhippie]

26. Which some think is true and others do not. Thats pure opinion.

And as opinion, has no protected status.

[Renew Deal]

14. God killed a kitten for every destroyed bible

:cry:

[Spike89]

15. Yeah, they burn U.S. flags too!

Disregard the fact that burning is the recommended disposal for worn flags and you can ratchet up the outrage. No matter how you spin it, context is all that seperates a patriot following the U.S. flag code and a "terrorist" burning a flag in the street.

[slackmaster]

16. Amazingly enough, Christians all over the world did not riot or call for a holy war

I wonder how that happened.

[jberryhill]

18. Too Busy In Uganda Passing A Law To Kill Gays

Christians gotta prioritize.

[slackmaster]

19. But seriously, those people don't speak for all Christians any more than AQ speaks for all Muslims

:hi:

[jberryhill]

20. I dunno, they sure speak LOUDLY /nt

[Jack_DeLeon]

22. There is no religious freedom in Afghanistan...

unlike the US where we can destroy our own property.

[WinkyDink]

31. The Bible is half-Jewish.