This country continues to be vile

[Rosa Luxemburg]

this country is disappointing. After a history of being vile to First Americans, then African Americans, Latinos, chinese, and now people of the Islamic faith. I know the USA is a very young country but when is it going to grow up?

[Ken Burch]

1. We the people, however, continue to have the power to fight the vileness

And we have to keep trying.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

2. it's an uphill battle

[Ken Burch]

3. Always has been.

And those who fought before us had it worse than we do.

You just have to keep TRYING to move forward.

[RKP5637]

4. I keep asking the same. Actually there's a number more that could be added

to the list of whom this country has been vile toward. I think it's sometimes a violent bigoted place, certainly not as bad as many, but there is an awful lot lacking here for a county that always touts how great it is to everyone. We could do far better.

[hfojvt]

12. are you thinking of Germans?

http://www.bookrags.com/history/america-1910s-religion/sub9.html

[Rosa Luxemburg]

14. what about the Germans?

[hfojvt]

32. I once had a picture from WWI in Baraboo, Wisconsin

It showed a crowd gathered around a bonfire. A fairly large fire where they were burning books written by German authors. Think of it Baraboo, Wisconsin where 3 miles north of town there is a road called "Gasser road" (although actually the Gassers were Swiss, but German-speaking Swiss). Where just 10 miles down the road is the Ragatz Church where services might still be held in German in 1916 (and where one parishioner said when they switched services to Englisch "I suppose God himself is going to have to learn Englisch.") In this County, where many residents had German or German-Swiss ancestry, anti-German sentiment was so high that they had a book burning.

My family name is Koch. My paternal ancestors came to this country in 1739. In the early 1900s, a brother of my great-great grandfather changed the spelling (if not the pronunciation) of his name - to Cook. Was that because of anti-German sentiment during WWI? The timing suggests that it might be, although current members of the family say they don't know why it was changed.

So when the poster said "You can add other groups (to the list that were mistreated in this country, if not by this country)" I asked "like the Germans"?

[Iterate]

46. It was illegal to speak German on the telephone in Iowa

during the war. Telephone operators could eavesdrop and report, a sort of proto-NSA. Children of immigrants were, of course, encouraged to enlist to prove their patriotism, my grandfather being one of them. I've always wondered how many were shot by their German cousins. We'll never know.

Also from this nativist effort came the defeat of an early progressive effort at national health care and the early use of the word "socialist" as a political epithet in elections.

It just occurred to me that we've never, as far as I know, had a President with German ancestry.

[RKP5637]

21. Germans, Irish, Italians, Japanese, Jewish, Cubans, Puerto Ricans to name a few more... I've always

wondered who the "perfect" Americans are. The perfect race, the perfect religion, the perfect sexual orientation, the perfect American dream and on and on. And the shock to some when you tell them you practice Transcendental Meditation and are not religious.

[avaistheone1]

52. True.

[spanone]

5. perhaps never.

[dkf]

6. If we weren't vile to the natives we wouldn't exist.

Your entire lifestyle is based on vileness. Otherwise we would all be in the homeland.

[likesmountains 52]

7. I blame the 24 hour "news" for it...this crap like Quran burning by a 50 member

"church" getting 24/7 coverage is insipid..

[hfojvt]

8. what is "this country"

And who are you comparing us to? Were we more "vile" to the Native Americans than, say, the British were? That would be kind of ironic, wouldn't it? Were we more vile to Africns than, say, the French? Are "we" (and what is the definition of 'we'?) more vile to people of the Islamic faith, than, say, Israel, or India, or the way Egypt or Saudi Arabia or Turkey treat non-Islamic people (and I have no idea, really, how any of these countries are.) How about an old country like China? How do they treat their people? Better than America does? Or is only America vile?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

10. Britain, France etc never boasted they were the land of the free and just

the other raping, pillaging and floggers of the world never boasted that they were the land of the free. We need to show people that we mean what we say. Are you condoning the USA's actions?

[Better Today]

15. It's a human condition, not related to country, it's just that USA is better at marketing.

That being said, I'd like to see humans grow up.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

26. the marketing

selling faulty goods

[Better Today]

45. That's what marketing does. Exaggerate how one "feels" about something

for a purpose of getting you to do something more beneficial to "them" than to yourself.

[hfojvt]

29. freedom does not include the freedom to be vile?

You said it was a matter of youth, as if the older countries of the world, like China, have all grown up, and only we, the Americans, are flinging out dirty diapers at each other and all across the globe.

It is sort of funny, in a way. For a member of DU to get upset at America because some dickhead like Phred Phelps is gonna burn a Koran and an American flag, and what, maybe 10% of the country approves of that (at least the first part).

Yet there seem to be many members of DU who have no more respect for the Bible than those Koran-burners have for the Koran. But it only becomes a terrible, horrible thing when a Muslim gets his/her feeling hurt by some bigot who does not like or respect their religion. It becomes a vile thing, comparable to the deaths of millions of Native Americans or to the enslavement of millions of Africans.

It really though, seems like just another way to have, or stir up, huge amounts of hatred for the Sharks - the other tribe. After all, it is THEY who do the killing, It is THEY who do the vile acts or support the vile acts.

Considering that 1,643 women will be raped tomorrow, if it is an average day and that there will be 3,835 violent crimes (600,000 rapes and 1.4 million violent crimes a year are sort of WAGs from memory. I am not gonna look up real numbers as the estimates sorta make the point), including 55 homicides, and that 110 people will die in car accidents, I cannot really see a few Korans being burned as one of the top ten problems in this country, as some sort of ultimate example of man's inhumanity to man.

[Art_from_Ark]

35. You've apparently never heard the words of "Rule Britannia"

When Britain first at Heaven's command
Arose from out the azure main;
This was the charter of the land,
And guardian angels sang this strain;
Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never never never shall be slaves.

The nations not so blest as thee,
Shall in their turns to tyrants fall;
While thou shalt flourish great and free,
The dread and envy of them all.
Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never never never shall be slaves.

Still more majestic shalt thou rise,
More dreadful from each foreign stroke;
As the loud blast that tears the skies,
Serves but to root thy native oak.
Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never never never shall be slaves.

Thee haughty tyrants ne'er shall tame,
All their attempts to bend thee down
Will but arouse thy generous flame;
But work their woe, and thy renown.
Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never never never shall be slaves.

To thee belongs the rural reign;
Thy cities shall with commerce shine;
All thine shall be the subject main,
And every shore it circles thine.
Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never never never shall be slaves.

The Muses, still with freedom found,
Shall to thy happy coast repair;
Blessed Isle! With matchless beauty crowned,
And manly hearts to guide the fair.
Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never never never shall be slaves.


Other countries that have ruled the roost have had similar songs, and similar national sentiments.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

49. their meaning of free was rather different

[Art_from_Ark]

50. Different in what way?

Please explain.

[proteus_lives]

38. Yeah, they did.

France proclaimed a revolutionary brotherhood. Which really meant a European bloodbath.

Britain claimed the bring "civilization" to Africa and Asia. Which really meant "slave labor for the UK."

[JoeyT]

34. Speaking as someone who grew up listening to his NA grandmother's stories of her childhood:

Yes, the US was more vile to the Native Americans.
Not only were they systematically killed (Which the British also did, though not as long or as often.), but when she was a child she wasn't allowed to learn her own language or religion. So even when they weren't being killed, there was a long policy of cultural annihilation that continued well into the 1900s: the effects of which can still be seen today.

[proteus_lives]

39. The Ozzies were even worse.

They're still winding down the practices against the Aboriginals.

[OmahaBlueDog]

9. What we know is what we've heard in 30 years of bad press

The '72 Olympic Massacre; the Iranian Hostages; the Lebanon bombing of the Marine barracks; the Achilie Lauro (sp?); countless Fatwas calling for the deaths of countless people (Salmon Rushdie leaps to mind); the first failed WTC bombing; the bombings of the embassies in Africa; and (of course) 9-11.

I'm not saying you are wrong, or that burning anyone's holy books is justified. This is just all that many Americans know about the Arab world -- in spite of the fact that we fought along side Muslims to liberate Kuwait twenty years ago.

Also -- and realizing that two wrongs never make a right -- it should be noted that (prior to 9-11), the Taliban did despicable things to Buddhist holy sites in Afghanistan.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

13. We haven't risen above it and therefore we have failed

we know other countries have done bad things such as Saudi arabia and the likes however don't you agree we should practice what we preach?

[OmahaBlueDog]

16. Absolutely

I certainly did not intend to suggest otherwise. I am suggesting that:

a) while these things are vile, they are not unique to us
b) the Muslim world, but really the Arabic world (specifically), has what can only be described as a monumental PR problem with the American people

I had occasion to pass through a town in Nebraska where German POWs (another group that, at the time, had a huge PR problem). The article touched on the experiences of a boy (now 70) who got to know the German prisoners who came to work on his farm. In the article, he was asked about the prisoners, and his thoughts on Guantanamo Bay. He said:

“When you know people as human beings up close and understand about their lives, it really alters your view of people and the view of your own world.”

(Source: Smithsonian Magazine)

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/German-POWs-on-the-American-Homefront.html?c=y&page=1

[Confusious]

47. I didn't realize this was a game and the game was over

You also seem to lack some perspective. 45 years ago the civil rights legislation was passed, my lifetime so far. 90 years ago women couldn't vote, my grandfather. 180 years ago, people were slaves, his grandfather. 500 years ago, the world really hadn't changed much in thousands of years.

Progress takes time and patience. Saying we failed is throwing up your hands and giving up.

[jillan]

11. We have to keep fighting together Rosa!

[Steely_Dan]

17. With A Little...

...more leadership some of this could have been reduced.

-P

[Zanzobar]

18. What are your alternatives?

Do you have any, or are you stuck in the vileness permanently.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

23. is the USA stuck in vileness permanently?

are you suggesting that the USA should stay like this or improve?

[Zanzobar]

28. Definitely improve,

...but given the brief history you cited, you don't seem to hold out much hope of discontinuing the vileness you're subjected to.

[Codeine]

19. Humans are vile across the globe.

Humans are also amazingly wonderful across the globe. :shrug: The human condition is what it is.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

25. should we then Codeine

state that we are not the land of the free or do we try to improve?

[Codeine]

30. Of course we should try to improve.

What an odd question.

[MrMickeysMom]

20. Attend a Muslim community event this Saturday

It's going to be my way of noting the need for this kind of change.

I'm so sick of what is supposed to pass as a good American thing to do. Jingoism has gone up as many notches as IQ has gone down.

[gateley]

24. What a wonderful suggestion! nt

[MrMickeysMom]

27. Actually, I and others in local government were invited...

and when I found out that our mayor wasn't attending, I decided to announce that I would.

Small steps that are coming from the Muslim community. Someone's got to start making sense, hey?

[Rage for Order]

22. America suckz

We are the worstest

[proteus_lives]

40. The historical ignorance is laughable.

[Arugula Latte]

31. The thing that sickens me is

this country should be able to provide basic housing, healthcare and a decent education to all. Instead, people sleep on the sidewalks, die from lack of insurance, and get sub-standard educations in falling-down schools. Why? Because we pay billions to subsidize corporations for making permanent war, and the idiots in this country think that's patriotic. :eyes:

[AspenRose]

33. +1

[Rosa Luxemburg]

43. It is sickening

[pinboy3niner]

36. It isn't just happening--there are interests actively inciting the hate

Neocons who want MORE wars in the ME, haters like Pamela Geller and her groups, the usual-suspect hate groups, and selfish, irresponsible, opportunistic pols.

It would not be this bad if it were not for those who are actively inciting and manipulating the outrage and bigotry and hate.

[proteus_lives]

37. Show one another country that behaves differently.

Until then, it's just more "America is the worst ever, blah, blah."

The just-as-ugly sister of "America is the best ever, blah, blah."

[Mudoria]

41. +1

[Rosa Luxemburg]

42. maybe some

Scandinavia has quietened down more recently

[proteus_lives]

44. Check out Sweden recent blood-libel stories.

[Confusious]

48. That's a good one, I like it. Nt

[Codeine]

51. Y'all need some historical perspective.

Every nation has, at some point in it's history, billed itself as a bastion of freedom and unique perfection. And every nation has, usually at the same time that it is applauding it's greatness, pulled some nasty-ass shit on its own citizens, its neighbors, or some foreign colonial folk conveniently out of view.

In the grand scheme of things we're quite a bit less vile right now than most countries have been. Hard news for the self-hate brigade, though.