"We"/"They" are not all hateful.

[MiddleFingerMom]

(hope this isn't a dupe)
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Lukovich shoots.
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Lukovich SCORES!!!!!
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[msongs]

1. "if you don't believe in my religion you are going to hell when you die" - not very loving is it? nt

[jberryhill]

2. That's one way of looking at it

I do not subscribe to that way of thinking, but there is value in trying to understand other people's point of view beyond caricatures.

"If you walk out into the street, you'll get hit by a car" is not a "loving" message either. Neither is "If you put your hand on a hot oven, you'll get burned".

To those who believe in the reality of your quoted message, there are of course people who take comfort in the fact that those who disagree will be punished. There are others who take it as a reason to be kind to others in the hope of persuading them to come around to their point of view. A fair number of that second group eventually comes around to a broader view of people, by virtue of genuinely engaging the broader world.

Some folks just seem geared to want to condemn people.

[MineralMan]

6. Whether it is expressed in a threatening way or with sweetness and

light, the message is identical. "If you do not believe as I do, you will burn in Hell for eternity." There is no other possible interpretation if you read the New Testament. And, if you add in the Old Testament, it's clear that the deity being worshiped is a cruel, vindictive deity to those who don't follow it slavishly.

So, what sort of deity is it that says, "I love you, so you must love me and follow all of my orders or I will torture you for all time?"

For me, that is a false deity, and one I cannot believe exists. Frankly, they're all that way, more or less, so I can't believe in any of them.

[wookie72]

7. Actually, there are quite a few other interpretations

Some argue that Jesus wasn't even really talking about Hell.

[MineralMan]

11. Yes...there are as many interpretations as there are

splintered denominations. What's your point? Jesus is just another representation of a deity that once wiped out the entire population of the Earth, except for one family, in a fit of pique. The same deity that destroyed a large city because he didn't like the inhospitable behavior of the people there, then killed the wife of the family he let leave the city because she was curious, then had the father's daughters commit incest with him. The same deity that had its followers bash the heads of children against a wall because they weren't followers of that deity.

Don't come to me with your "interpretations" of the Judeo-Christian deity. I'm intimately familiar with the Bible. I could go on and on with the cruelty and pettiness of that deity. Most deities are the same. That is the greatest indication that deities are created by humans, and not the reverse. They always seem to have the same petty nature that humans exhibit. Odd, isn't it.

If you'd like to have a discussion of the merits and flaws of the various deities, start a thread in the Religion/Theology forum. I'll be happy to participate.

[MiddleFingerMom]

13. No matter how many times I see it...

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...it ALWAYS dismays me when I realize that it's NOT just the
fundies and the teabaggers who see things in such angry and
aggressive and absolute black-and-white terms.
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Wish I had more Photoshop skills, I just had a flash of a guy with
a mullet holding up a sign that says, "GET A BRAIN, KORONS!!!"
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[MineralMan]

16. What did I point out that was incorrect and not Biblical?

[wookie72]

15. "start a thread in the Religion/Theology forum. "

You're the one who brought it up. To say "leave that to the Religion forum" after that is rather churlish.

But to say that the only two possible interpretations of the Bible is that if you don't believe in it, you'll go to Hell or else to reject it entirely is simply inaccurate.

[jberryhill]

17. As I said, I do not subscribe

But the message, insofar as I understand it that everybody is going to hell, and they are offering a way to avoid that.

The way THEY see it - again - the way THEY see it - is that when a sign says "Bridge out, follow detour", the highway department is not saying, "Do what we say or you will drive off of a cliff". The point is that you are already headed in that direction and they are telling you how to avoid it.

You can take it however you want, but they are not all ill motivated. Just misled.

Thought Experiment:

You are in a room with two exit doors with someone whom you love. You firmly and sincerely believe that one of the doors leads out of the room, and the other one to a cage with a hungry tiger in it. What do you tell your friend?

Yes, it is a stupid setup. There are a lot of doors and people pointing every which way. But we are talking about what you do to persuade your friend to take what you believe is the correct door, and what is your motivation for doing that?

[MiddleFingerMom]

4. Not all of them say it from an unkind perspective (SOME do -- self-righteously).

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Many, if not most, say it from a concerned perspective.
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There's a woman on the bus I take home who, if it's not crowded, will
sometimes tell me about the services at her church -- not in a hardcore
sales fashion, but I can tell she's trying to "recruit" me.
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It's annoying as hell :rofl:, but not done out of meanness, so as long
as she doesn't get aggressive, I'm -- what's that thing WE as liberals
are so proud of -- I'm tolerant of her behavior.
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I truly believe she DOES think that if I don't believe in her religion
that I will go to hell when I die. I also believe that, rather than give
her self-righteous satisfaction (hmmm?), she is genuinely worried about
me.
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She can't and won't ever have me... but I respect, and yes... even APPRECIATE
her intentions.
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[woo me with science]

5. +1 nt

[gophates]

9. No, but it's incredibly typical of all theists.

Religion is the number one threat to humanities progress and its continued existence.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. All belief systems believe that other beliefs are wrong, and they're going to suffer for it.

That's rather the nature of belief systems.

[woo me with science]

3. Beautiful.

Thank you.

[Fumesucker]

8. You couldn't tell it by watching the lamestream media.. n/t

[blondeatlast]

10. As a mom, I can tell you that it's a difficult lesson in this climate (and in my area, which

is heavily red--I'm in Maricopa County, Arizona).

But I teach it and try to rise above what my son hears on the playground. :cry:

[MiddleFingerMom]

12. It's the Mom's of the world (even those without children)...

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...who may be our greatest hope.
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I remember in grade school having been bullied that day and, when
explaining it angrily later on to my family at the dinner table said,
"I'd wish I could KILL that jerk."
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MiddleFingerMomMom quietly and immediately took me into another
room and explained what "killing" somebody would actually MEAN.
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I have never forgotten that calm, soft-spoken POWERFUL message.
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