Just what is the Upper Middle Class?

[tourivers83]

And should "they" get a tax cut? Or is the concept of a large and powerful Upper Middle Class just a flight of the imagination?

:nopity: :shrug:

[Hello_Kitty]

1. I don't mind the upper middle class keeping (not getting a new) their tax cut

That's a group who spends a lot of money in the economy.

[geek tragedy]

2. Upper middle class is what rich people who are uncomfortable

with the idea of being rich call themselves.

[pnwmom]

3. True, in the eyes of anyone who can't tell the difference between

an family income of $250,000 a year and $25,000,000 a year.

The difference is that most of the $250,000 year households have that income either on a one-time basis (e.g., they sold a house) OR because they worked two good jobs and had two good incomes.

As opposed to the truly rich, who are not middle class by any definition, who never need to work at all.

[Warren Stupidity]

35. There are 15,000 families with an average income of >35M

This is the plutocracy. The constitute 0.001% of the population. They are the ruling class and they control our government and operate it for their benefit.

[Rincewind]

4. In about 25 years,

it'll be people who own shoes if the republicans get their way.

[mascarax]

33. +1 - too true

[sadbear]

5. Semantics

Labels aren't very helpful. Let's stick with income and dollar amounts.

[JoePhilly]

10. I'd suggest you consider Income and Wealth in this determination.

Income is what one takes home as pay.

Wealth is what one has saved in liquid or other assets.

A person with great WEALTH needs little in Salary (income). That's why many executives and CEOs DEFER Salary. They don't need it.

A person of WEALTH can take capitol gains as their income, taxed at 15%, and Defer Salary. When they die, that money goes into the trust for their heirs. They never touch it either. They live off the capitol gains, again taxed at 15%.

So ... if your family has no wealth, a 200k salary is taxed higher then if you make 200k in capitol gains and have ZERO salary. And so as you make that 200k, trying to pay off student loans (which got you this salary), and then you try to save money for retirement, or kids college, the upper middle class, is taxed MORE than the WEALTHY.

[IMATB]

6. I sometimes wonder

if upper middle class is defined in the mind besides the pocketbook.

My neighbor is 22 years old and doesn't work or go to school, has no kids. She says her husband makes between $36,000 and $42,000 in the military.

She shops like she can't buy enough, brags about her expensive hair and clothes, talks about going on vacation after vacation. Everything has a price tag on it.

Now I know just because you make that doesn't mean you bring that home yet she considers herself not only upper middle class but borderline rich.

Poor child. She's just stupid. But to her, with the "stuff" she has, she thinks she's headed into rich territory. The stuff is what her whole life is about. I sometimes feel sorry for her because that fall from that step stool is going to hurt.

[SoCalDem]

16. Lots of truly wealthy people spend very little

actually, as you rise through the ranks, people often fall all over themselves trying to GIVE you free stuff :eyes:...

People are people, no matter their incomes.. I have seen generous, frugal rich people and poor people..and I have seen , greedy spendthrifts , deeply in debt...no matter their incomes..

Often, it's what's going on inside their psyches...as much as what's going on inside their wallets

[IMATB]

24. You're right

her definition of rich is someone with 3 bathrooms.

She's not from this country so I'm giving her a pass.

Still, it's hard to be around someone so wrapped up in things, social position, wanting to compete. I'm not like that. I tend to be more real.

BTW, she has 3 bathrooms in her house. :)

[Quantess]

7. They are a rare, endangered species.

The upper middle class, and the middle class have taken a dive. Soon we'll all be lower class peasants, except for 1/10th of the richest 1%.

[Xithras]

8. The difference between "upper middle class" and "rich" is simple.

The "rich" derive new income and wealth purely from mannipulating their existing wealth. They don't work, but instead leverage their wealth to expand their fortunes. Think: 'Millionaires investing in the stock market to get richer'.

The "upper middle class" are people who are paid exceptionally well, but who still have to get up every morning and work for a living. Think "highly paid lawyer", or "university chancellor", or "VP of Marketing" at a Fortune 50 company.

The difference between the two is simple. If the "Upper Middle Class" loses his job tomorrow, he can rapidly become POOR, because his income is derived directly from his employment. If a "Rich" person loses his ability to invest tomorrow, he IS STILL RICH, he has simply ceased getting richer.

[IMATB]

9. Very nice

I agree.

[lukasahero]

12. Well said.

Thank you for a well-reasoned response.

[BlueCheese]

21. Exactly.

If you have to work for a living, how rich can you be?

[musette_sf]

23. + 1

exactly

[tourivers83]

28. Thank you.

That was a good post.

:toast:

[Lucky Luciano]

32. Spot on...spot on!

...and that upper middle class person who loses their job can be poor in short order...especially if they are someone who got that good income a few years out of school before real savings can be built up while they rent a $4,500 two bedroom apartment with 900 sq feet in NYC. All the other fixed monthly expenses that the upper middle class person thought would be handled well by their job suddenly becoeme a massive burden that can send them on a downward spiral if a comparable job is not found in short order.

[ThomWV]

11. I'd say 50-80 grand, maybe up to 100k in some places

but over a hundred grand a year and you are past the middle class and I don't give a shit where you live.

[lukasahero]

13. Says the guy from WV

Sorry for the snark but seriously, step outside your own world a little.

Try this: http://www.cityrating.com/costofliving.asp

Compare the Cost of Living:
Your Current Salary:
100,000.00
State of Origin: -------------- Destination State:
Massachusetts ----------------- West Virginia
City of Origin: --------------- Destination City:
Boston ------------------------ Wheeling
If you make: $100,000.00 ------ You will have to make: $52,137.77

[onethatcares]

14. I can agree with that. I usually break it down like this.

100K a year = 2000.00 a week more or less gross. take out takes and you end up going out to nice places, you got a mercedes E class
75K a year = 1500.00 a week gross, you aren't eating at taco bell on friday nights, you drive the lexus
50K a year=1000.00 a week, still aren't shopping at save a lot or dollar general, driving the top line ford product
25K a year= Jeez, it seems like walmart and the dollar store are where you find yourself most weekends. Still driving that used (once new) car and just hopin you can make it last another year knowing it won't.

I can't imagine what it's like to have an income of $5000.00 gross a week. Damn, my wife and I took a vacation to one of those all inclusive resorts about 6 years ago and it took that long to pay it off.

Yeah, above 100k you're doing pretty damn good.

[customerserviceguy]

20. If a married couple makes $100K around here

They might be able to afford to live in a condo. I guess money goes a bit farther where you live.

[musette_sf]

22. bzzzzzt.... wrong

From the Craigslist homes for rent in the Wheeling area, looks like I could rent there for less than $1K/month. I haven't paid under $1K in rent since 12+ years ago, in Texas.

Compare the Cost of Living:
Your Current Salary:
100,000.00
State of Origin: -------------- Destination State:
California ----------------- West Virginia
City of Origin: --------------- Destination City:
San Francisco ------------------------ Wheeling
If you make: $100,000.00 ------ You will have to make: $44,721.57

[lukasahero]

25. It's even more interesting when you switch the cities around

I see you used the salary calculator. I was thinking a more accurate representation would be had if I reversed the cities - i.e. (in my case) if I lived in WV and wanted to move to Boston. Check it out - $100,000 is not the same everywhere.

100,000.00
State of Origin:---------- Destination State:
West Virginia------------- Massachusetts
City of Origin:----------- Destination City:
Wheeling------------------ Boston
If you make: $100,000.00 You will have to make: $191,799.54

Looks like SF is more expensive than Boston (duh) so your results should be interesting. :) and :hi:

[Lucky Luciano]

34. Hah...

No idea how accurate this is, but it is very very plausible. I live in Manhattan...wonder if this is for Manhattan when they say "New York." Probably does as the Bronx brings down the average cost of living quite a bit - but nobody wants to live in the Bronx. Let's just assume they mean Manhattan here to be conservative.

Your Current Salary:
100,000.00

State of Origin: Destination State:
West Virginia New York

City of Origin: Destination City:
Wheeling New York

If you make: $100,000.00 You will have to make: $243,142.80

[blindpig]

15. The 'upper middle class' is the real middle class

Professionals(medical,science, engineering), lawyers, middle-upper management, you get the idea.

And so they will remain after the dust of this economic collapse clears. Most of us are not and never were 'middle class', it was bullshit propaganda of the Cold War and they don't think they need it anymore, they think they have won.

We have not yet begun to fight.

[leftstreet]

27. +1

[slackmaster]

17. That would be just below the Lower Upper Class

And just above the Middle Middle Class.

[tourivers83]

36. And just below the upper upper middle class.

:bounce: :evilgrin: :bounce:

[slackmaster]

37. I prefer to think of myself as "chronically sub-rich"

:D

[PassingFair]

18. Lawyer, Doctor or Professor

I wanna be a lawyer
Doctor or professor
A member of the UMC

Iwant an air conditioner
Cottage on the river
And all the money I can see

I wanna drive a Lincoln
Spend my evenings drinking
The very best burgandy

I want a yacht for sailing
Private eye for tailing
My wife if She's a bit too free

I've been told ever since a boy
that's what one aught to be
A part of the UMC

I want a pool to swim in
Fancy suits to dress in
Some stockin GM and GE

An office in the city
Secretary pretty
Who'll take dictation on my knee

I want a paid vacation
Don't want to have to ration
A thing with anyone but me

And if there's war or famine
Promise I'll examine
The details if they're on TV

I'll pretend to be liberal but I'll still support the GOP,
As part of the UMC

I wanna be a lawyer
Doctor or professor
A member of the UMC


UMC by Bob Seger

[customerserviceguy]

19. The unofficial definition of Upper Middle Class

is anybody who makes about twice as much as you do. No matter how much you make.

[Dawson Leery]

26. In terms of income, that would depend on where you live.

If you live in the northeast/nyc area, "Upper Middle Class" with 2 kids, 2 cars, and house would require about 180-200k in salary to live well.

[Spider Jerusalem]

29. Upper middle class: generally university educated professionals...

who earn enough to live a comfortable lifestyle but not enough to stop working. If you have to work, you're not 'upper class', full stop.

[ipaint]

30. The upper middle class are the people who still have a under 4% unemployment rate.

The comfortable class, a step below the investor class and largely completely out of touch with those who survive on the median income and below.

They are convinced a recovery is here.

[DailyGrind51]

31. Everyone else but Me!