Atheist billboard has fundie undies in a knot in Oklahoma

[marmar]

AP, via HuffPost:




OKLAHOMA CITY — Atheists in Oklahoma City have erected a billboard seeking fellow non-believers, and Satanists have scheduled a conference in a city-owned building, drawing criticism from ministers in a state where more than eight out of 10 people say they are Christians.

"It's not a question of 'Can you?' It's a question of 'Should you?'" said Dan Fisher, pastor of the Trinity Baptist Church in Yukon. "It's kind of like they're poking a finger in your eye."

Nick Singer, the coordinator of a local atheists' group called "Coalition of Reason," recently received $5,250 from its national counterpart to erect the billboard along Interstate 44 near the Oklahoma State Fair, which opens Wednesday. Its message reads, "Don't believe in God? Join the club."

Similar billboards were recently put up in Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Iowa, Louisiana, Michigan, Texas and Washington.

"The billboard was designed to get a little bit of a response, but it's not meant to be directly insulting," Singer said. "It's just a sign to like-minded people that we are here."

Oklahoma wears its religion on its sleeves. ............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/10/atheists-erect-billboard-_n_712468.html

[Bluebear]

1. "It's kind of like they're poking a finger in your eye." - poor persecuted Pastor Dan. nt

[Matariki]

15. Pastor Dan doesn't know poke in the eye.

That billboard is directed at Atheists. For their benefit.

It's not directed at or ridiculing anyone else's beliefs. Unlike, say, going on about other's beliefs as myth or invisible friends or whatever.

Nothing wrong with that billboard at all.

[Heywood J]

51. He doesn't know a poke in the eye

because he can't see it for the beam in his.

[CanonRay]

50. Are his beliefs really that insecure?

Maybe he should find another line of work.

[Hansel]

122. So so true.

Why are these twerps so insecure about their religion? Perhaps because they don't really believe it themselves?

[IntravenousDemilo]

2. "It's not a question of 'Can you?' It's a question of 'Should you?'" sounds very familiar.

You'd think those atheists wanted to build a mosque or something.

[GordonOKC]

37. "Should you?"

There is something troubling about Fisher's statement "It's not a question of 'Can you?' It's a question of 'Should you?'" Suppose we play the preacher's game here and ignore "Can You?" as he suggests and focus on the "Should you" question. This is indeed very troubling because the next logical step is to ask "Who decides?" Dan Fisher? It seems that's what he just implied

Based on Fisher's sharing the podium with ideological Siamese twins as Paul Blair, Rick Scarborough, Sally Kern, Anita Bryant, (Yes that Anita Bryant), David Barton and many others who agitate for a theocracy in one form or another the accusation that Fisher would claim for himself the right to decide "should you" is grounded on solid facts.

Nobody is poking a finger in anyone's eye, but I will point a finger at Fisher and call him out as a dangerous theocrat.

http://www.okcteaparty.org/april-14-rally-inforesources/april-14-2010-peoples-day-tea-party-rally/

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_heather__070301_americans_deserve_a_.htm

http://www.examiner.com/humanist-in-portland/anti-gay-anita-bryant-is-back-reclaiming-america-for-christ

http://www.swrc.com/ministry/conf.html

http://www.swrc.com/ministry/okc_conf.html

h/t to hatetrackers.com and gossip-boy. Their site is currently under a major redo at the present but definitely worthy of visiting from time to time to keep track of these characters.

[Codeine]

58. To be fair,

much of DU has the same opinion re: Quran burning.

[Dr.Phool]

63. Next thing you know, the good Rev. will want to burn our invisible holy book!

That will really piss us off!

[Vincardog]

68. Just you keep you hands off my FSM literature

[HuckleB]

3. This is hilarious.

How many of the ijits have spent money on "Christian" billboards? How many have walked some public space, spewing forth their ideology? How many spoke up against the kook in Florida?

[RainDog]

9. I know. I remember driving thru Dallas seeing those billboards and...

I thought they were stupid.

They've been all over the place. Now atheists want to speak up too and it's somehow unacceptable.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

it's the like Jehovah's Witnesses being annoyed about atheists who speak out about their view of the world.

the next thing you know, this nation won't have to pretend religion has anything to do with how it is governed...just like the founders intended.

[depakid]

4. Since when does Satan have anything to do with the Coalition of Reason"

Oh, I get it.

[nightgaunt]

18. Hint; they don't really worship "enemy"

Satan isn't a name anyway. It is just heterodox people who want to do the opposite, in some areas, from the starch black collar haters of the natural human. Stick it in their eye. (You pick the body part and fluid.) From mooning them to listening to music, to dancing and all kinds of vile human things they hate. Fun, fun, fun, or so I've heard.

[depakid]

22. Found it sort of interesting that the AP would include that

Says something about the AP (not surprising to people paying attention, but still).

[RainDog]

24. Agreed. That's typical bullshit from fundie land

I no longer expect to read news from U.S. news sources without a major injection of bullshit. It's been that way for more than a decade.

[givemebackmycountry]

5. In a state where more than eight out of 10 people say they are Christians.

WOW.
Hell on earth.

How Bartcop survives down there is beyond me.

[Wednesdays]

11. I manage...somehow...

I'm one of the quietest people on earth.

[NeedleCast]

38. That's not much off the national average

I'm honestly surprised the ratio isn't higher considering that 74.6% of Americans claim christianity as their religion.

[bobbieinok]

69. Hey, come on! there are DUers from OK posting everyday.

And it's those of us in red states who especially appreciate DU.

When you live, like I do, in a city like Tulsa where there are 3!!! RW am radio stations; one is a religious right station KCFO ('Christ for Oklahoma') at 970am. So people here who listen to radio as they work get a daily diet of Savage, Beck, Hannity, etc,etc, and the 'Christian' shows with Albert Mohler (president of the SoBapt seminary in Nashville), Janet Purcell (sp???) (a major radio spokesperson for the religious right), Focus on the Family (many programs).

I--and others, including Bartcop--survive with the help of sites like DU. When I discovered Bartcp and DU after the sElection of 2000, I saw that there was a 'reality world' that existed beyond the OK borders.

PS. I had discovered Malloy's late night radio show on WLS in Chicago at the end of the 90s. People over a large part of the country could hear his show after dark. The firing of Malloy just before the campaign of 2000 was a major victory for the forces of the right. (There was a post at FR boasting that they had complained so much that they had gotten him fired.) NB Malloy's was the leading radio show in Chicago in his time slot when he was fired.

Bobbie in OK

[tulsakatz]

6. poking a finger in your eye?

....so, he sounds like he's upset by someone else in Oklahoma who just wants people to know they're there!! Ok, so what does he call all of the massive pro-christian messages by churches and billboards showing people that christianity has dominant influence in this state? To me, it's the same thing.....just a different message!

If christian churches have the right to spread their messages, as they've done going back as far as I can remember, then atheists have the same right!

[rurallib]

7. people start thinking, Pastor Dan could be out of work.

[tulsakatz]

30. let's hope so..........n/t

[defendandprotect]

10. Look at the large number of Catholics now in USHR -- don't know about Senate ....

Look at Stupak and what he was able to do in holding up health care deform!!

When they weren't sure that was working to stop reproductive rights ... US Catholic Bishops

met with Pelosi!! After that Pelosi got a call from Rome!


44% are millionaries or better -- only 1% of the population --

I think the Catholics are above 240 in the USHR --

been a while since I saw those numbers, so don't quote me!

And there's now a active anti-abortion group among Dems!!


And look at the lobbying --

How else did RCC end up with their "faith based" religions being subsidized by our tax dollars!!



Obviously, I'm wrong -- more like 150 USHR/Senate --

but this info is from 2007 -- when they were 29% of the Congress!

Catholics remain the largest denominational group in Congress, with 155 members – 25 in the Senate and 130 in the House. But there are fewer Catholic Republicans in both houses since the 109th Congress and many more Catholic Democrats.

[tulsakatz]

31. yes I remember what Stupak did.....

I did not know that info about catholics though.....

In Oklahoma, all a politician has to do is say he loves jesus and people will automatically vote for them, regardless of whatever else they do! Why do you think we keep re-electing morons like Inhofe & Coburn?

[defendandprotect]

49. Have to correct that Catholic Congressional info cause it looks like

I'm saying that 44% of Catholics are millionaires in House!!

What I meant was -- extending the thought of "groups" in Congress . . .

we also have 44% of Congress now millionaires -- don't know their religions!!

Sorry -- I should have separated those two thoughts!!

So -- that's the explanation for Inhofe and Coburn!!

What also amazes me about Coburn is his lack of compassion for human life and

citizen suffering! Reminds me of that other doctor who served for a while in Congress --

Bill Frist/? who adopted cats so he could practice surgery on them? Think that's

the way that story went!!

[tulsakatz]

90. yep, Frist is the cat killer.........

...and since I'm also a cat lover, that is even more offensive to me! I once had a cat who had babies and I had placed an ad in the newspaper to give them away. A guy called me and acted like he wanted to adopt one and then he told me he planned to take it out in country and shoot it to watch it die. He probably was not serious anyway but I thought.....ok, I'm done talking to you.

Yes, that's the best explanation I have for Coburn and Inhofe. Inhofe used to be Mayor of Tulsa (at one time), of course that was before he started becoming the lunatic he is today! And where I live, in Tulsa, we are vastly outnumbered by the christian fundamentalists! You may also recall Tulsa is the location of Oral Roberts University.......so that gives you some idea of what I mean.

Coburn is pretty heartless even for doctor. I can't understand how a person can claim to be a christian and try to say they are a good person for that reason alone and then seem to appear so heartless when others are suffering......

Like I said, any politician can get elected here if he just says he loves jesus....that's about all it takes anymore.

[tigereye]

126. yeah Catholic Dems in the House tend to be fine with most social issues

other than choice/reproductive issues. It's a big problem for some of we feminists when we vote. I want to get a Dem in there, but sometimes I have to hold my nose and realize (hope?) they are often still more flexible on choice than the Reps would be.


:shrug: As far as the atheists go, I don't care what they do, as long as they let people who do believe alone and quit insisting that "reason" as they parse it, is a deterrent, for lack of a better term, to faith.

[tech9413]

19. Can athiest's claim tax exempt status?

I get so tired of these tools playing the victim card. If I were victimized like them, I'd be rich.

[tulsakatz]

29. you have to be a part of a church to get tax exempt status.....

...but I agree with you, I don't think any of them deserve to be tax exempt! Especially when they decide to use the pulpit to promote one political side over another...that's not the purpose of a church and anyone who tries should get a very swift, very serious visit by the IRS!!!

[defendandprotect]

8. When you consider the vastness and WEALTH of organized patriarchal religion ....

and the fact that they can be so rattled by this teeny challenge to their authority --

makes me wonder . . . !!!



Patriarchy -- and its underpinning =
Organized patriarchal religion - and its economic invention =
Capitalism =
____________________

The Unholy Trinity

[Supersedeas]

131. part of the allure is that there is a reason for the monopoly

the idea that there might be correct ideas that exist outside of their system, rocks the foundation upon which their WEALTH is built.

[Dappleganger]

12. There was a time...

when Christians considered it a mark of faith to endure "persecution".

Now they just whine like babies.

[Mariana]

17. I'm pretty sure they still do consider it a mark of faith.

Why else would they put so much effort into playing the victims?

[Dappleganger]

21. Good one!

:toast:

[Generic Brad]

13. Forget the poke in the eye. Their God should just smite the athiests

At the very least he could send a tornado to blow over those billboards. A real God would fight back. Just sayin'.

[Fumesucker]

14. Oh, I'm sure He'll send someone along to deface them soon..

Only time I've ever had my car vandalized was when I put a Darwin Fish on it, three times in about nine months..

Took the fish off, voila' no more vandalism.

Funny how that works..

[Generic Brad]

16. God may work in mysterious ways

But some of his followers are quite predictable.

[CrispyQ]

92. Bumper sticker: "Dear God, Save me from your followers." --nt

[msanthrope]

47. I have a cure for that......

Take a Christian Fish.

Turn it, back fin 'up.'

You now have what it originally was....and those of us in the know will know what you meant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesica_piscis

No Christian will touch that 'fish.' If you are ever challenged, start spoutingoff about the 21st Chapter of John...

This works.



;-)

[madokie]

20. I'm a non religious Okie

been one for close to 50 years now.

[tulsakatz]

32. I am too.........

I used to go to a religious science church but haven't done even that in years. I decided to stop going when they began to identify as christians........I hate that label and all it stands for! Yes, there are some good christians but most of them are not. At least in my experience, and I have lived here all of my life so I've met quite a few.......

[bobbieinok]

70. in Tulsa????

me too

[tulsakatz]

85. yes, I'm in Tulsa.....

it's always nice to meet another Okie.....now if we could only get our politicians to act like rational adults!

[Lucian]

23. Yes. They should.

And I'm glad those billboards are going up.

[jobycom]

25. How are those insulting to Christians? They don't attack, they don't belittle...

maybe they are a little dismissive, but not by much. Not nearly as much as the tons and tons of religious billboards I see all around Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi.

If the signs tried to insult religion, I'd be more sympathetic (I'm an atheist, I'm just not into insults). But there's nothing about that billboard that should cause a Christian a moment's concern. They aren't even talking to Christians. Unless the pastor feels the message tugging at his heartstrings more than he expected, I don't see how it's any of his business, any more than an add for a church would be any of mine.

[Mariana]

34. They exist. nt.

[rhett o rick]

79. Some Christians believe that if you arent a Christian, you are poking a finger in their eye. nm

[Warren DeMontague]

26. Wait until we start going door-to-door, explaining things like Geological Time and DNA.

Oh, wait, we have better shit to do.

[RainDog]

43. LOLOLOL! n/t

[Ishoutandscream2]

73. LOL!!

[Soylent Brice]

115. perfect.

:rofl:

[The Wizard]

27. "It's kind of like they're poking a finger in your eye."

Same language used by opposition to the Park 51 Muslim cultural center. Right out of Pox News, Frank Luntz, GOP central, The right wing echo chamber is cranking up the Wurlitzer.
Extreme fundamentalists should be marginalized. They have declared themselves victims when they are the aggressors.

[WCGreen]

28. No you fucking fake christian....

It's called turn the other cheek.

And you call yourself a man of god...

[tourivers83]

33. My .02USD worth.

Is there really a such thing as an atheist? I am a non practicing Catholic but I yet believe in something. Can someone really look at a spring flower or hold a newborn puppy and believe it just happened? I can’t and I am not sure anybody else can really either. I am gay and when my girl and I go out at night to look at the stars or watch a thunderstorm, so many things had to work out so perfectly, for it to just have happened that way would be like winning the lottery billions of times in a row. But please tell me what you feel.

:loveya: :beer:

[Regret My New Name]

35. debit declined

ahem... ;)

No, but does it really matter either way? You're free too believe what you want and have billboards about the miracles of some supreme beings creations, and they are free have billboards about the non-miracles of nothing (or whatever)...

[GordonOKC]

36. Yes

Now I know how Santa feels.

[NeedleCast]

39. Of course there's such a thing as an atheist

Many of us don't need a creator-myth to understand creation. Those beautiful stars you're looking up at are the same ones man-kind has looked up at for 40,000 years and (some) of the same ones that have been burning for billions of years. And yet, they're all just stars (well, a few are local planets). They're huge fusion reactors in space. They have a chemical composition. They, like you and me and everything else are made of of elements...things we can see, measure and define. Ultimately, there's nothing mystical about them.

[tourivers83]

99. Of course I see your point but what lies beyond?

Neither man nor science knows. Man or Woman cannot even understand the concept of something without an end or a beginning. After my accident for three years I was in hospitals, nursing homes, and in “other facilities” due to the depression and PTSD. I had lots of time to think about this stuff.

:think: :toast: :think: :crazy:

[NeedleCast]

118. Why does something have to "lie beyond?"

That's one of the (many) falacies of both organized religion and other belief systems. That something has to lie beyond. I think most people are just scared of death and need something to asure them that death isn't the end. Is it possible that something lies beyond death? Well, it's possible, although I think it's highly unlikely, and I'm okay with that. It makes me value life more.

[snooper2]

119. You should watch the Discovery channel more often..

And I'm not talking about the stupid reality shows...

some of us do understand the concept of infinity

[tourivers83]

129. Thank you for your answer.

And yes I do know all the theories. One is that no matter how far you go, you will still be in space so space is infinite so beyond it does not exist. Another is that space is curved like the surface of a globe so you never come to the end of it. But on the other hand a lot of people feel that infinity itself is just a philosophical argument. And on the other hand these discussions are best with a bottle of red wine and a cool rain falling outside.
{They won’t let me drink alcohol due to the medication I’m on so I will just have to take a couple of pain pills.}

:toast:

[WhollyHeretic]

40. Of course this world must have been intelligently designed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_nqySMvkcw

[MajorChode]

42. Not believing is not nearly as insulting as pretending to have all the answers

The biggest problem with most organized religions is not only do they believe in the existence of a supreme being, they pretend to know what that supreme being's thoughts are. Inevitably, the next step is to use that 'leap of faith' to manipulate people. It's one thing to believe or have an agnostic point of view, but it's quite another to use theology to control people.

[tourivers83]

46. The Stars are a nighttime fireworks show.

Thank you guys for the replies. Amanda tells me I’m too naïve and it’s a good thing we are not both blonds. I don’ go to church anymore because although I have been invited back and Amanda would be welcome as well I just don’t feel comfortable. I quit going when I started dating Amanda and with her being Baptist anyway, she didn’t feel comfortable.
I also believe in magic. Maybe we could both become Wicca’s.


:think: :hi:

[CrispyQ]

93. ...

I believe the key to bringing down this inequitable system is to take out the "We Fool You" layer first.

[MajorChode]

102. I'm not so convinced

Lot's of countries of various economic systems managed to function just fine without it.

[Nevernose]

44. Science seems a better explanation than "a great and powerful wizard."

And although atheists believe in things like physics and biology rather than default to "magic" as an explanation for the natural world, most of us still think puppies and flowers are pretty cool.

Willie Nelson had a pretty good explanation for both the night sky and thunderstorms, though: "The stars are raindrops, looking for a place to fall."

[tourivers83]

65. Thank you, that was a beautiful post.

That was a good post, but I don’t think science can tell us what death really is, so I guess I will just keep believing in magic.

:bounce: :toast: :bounce:

[foxfeet]

67. Although I'm sure there are exceptions, Wiccans in general have no problem with science.

Just FYI.

[dropkickpa]

84. Science doesn't require belief, it exists whether anyone

belives in it or not.

[elehhhhna]

53. "something" is a looong way from "authoritarian guy on a cloud"

GOD ia a loaded word.

[Tsiyu]

127. A female seminarian I know

has a shirt that says, "God is not a boy's name."

[Arugula Latte]

59. tourivers83 --

But saying "okay, God started it" doesn't make any sense, either. Where did this omnipotent deity come from?

[tourivers83]

64. I don't know.

Maybe the same place space and time start and end.

:loveya: :shrug: :loveya:

[Codeine]

61. Yes. Yes there is.

I have never believed in a god or higher power at any point in my life. Ever. It's just not part of everyone's makeup.

[spanone]

62. i can look at all those things and marvel at nature. not a bearded fellow.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

88. So, what's your opinion about the billboard?

[tourivers83]

106. Who's that peeking in my window?

It doesn’t bother me. I throw no rocks.
As long as someone is not peeping in my bedroom window I say live and let live.

Truly does being gay make one tolerant of others? I was "straight girl" till two years ago. I was back in our local hospital and was walking around the building on my walker. A girl that had come up to visit her dad bumped into me and spilled hot chocolate on my gown. And that was Amanda. About a year ago she admitted she did it purposely to get to know me.

:bounce: :evilgrin: :bounce: :toast:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

110. Um, right.

[Regret My New Name]

116. Why the hell does that pancake have a bunny under it?

[tourivers83]

128. ?????

Could you please explain this post? I will debate issues with you as you like but seems to be a personal attack against me and my spirit as well as Amanda and as you well know that is unacceptable here.

[Crystal Clarity]

41. I don't see that billboard message as being offensive.

As a Christian, my reaction if I came across something like that would be more like 'whatever'...

Thanks marmar for making the distinction between fundy Christians and the rest of us. Unfortunately we're all too often lumped together.

[and-justice-for-all]

45. The invisible sky wizard clan is just going to have to bitch...

cry and moan. Freedom of speech is a two way street and they should dually note that the freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.

"Don't believe in God? Join the club." is very mild and not cofrontational.

[saltpoint]

48. God help me, but I just dearly love it when something

happens to piss off the fundie nutbags.

Recommended.

[Gecko6400]

52. Well, at least these fundamentalist have not, to my

knowledge, treated to kill anyone over this particular billboard.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Snotcicles]

54. It's kind of like poking a finger in your hypocrisy, Pastor Dan. nt

[old mark]

55. How many fingers have "religious" people poked in the unbeliever's eye

over the last thousand years or so?
I have no sympathy or respect for any of them.
My only complaint is there is no such billboard in my area in PA...it would make a lot of the pigs squeal!


mark

[Arugula Latte]

57. Amen, mark, so to speak.

[tourivers83]

56. A rose by any other name.

"Don't believe in Allah? Join the club." Kind of puts a different spin on it and I think as a rule people consider that Allah and God refer to the same supreme deity, the creator, so does it convey the same message?

:crazy: :shrug:

[dmallind]

74. Same, but less useful

There is a reason, in fact several, atheists use Christian terminology, and it's not because we're "scared" to say Islam is just as much silly superstitious claptrap not worth a fart in a whirlwind, as are all religions.

1)There is no ranking of religions we do not believe in with Christianity at the top. There is however a ranking of religions that are used to try and control our lives in this country, and Christianity certainly is at the top of that.

2)You could put up a sign that says "Don't believe in Brahma? Join the club." all it would do was make 90-95% of the people go "uh?". The audience knows the 'name' "God" better than any other.

3)If an organized crime boss could download ignition interlock codes so he could steal any of those cars at will, would he choose the codes for Toyota Camrys, sold in the millions and easily taken from any street with huge parts trade and good resale value, or the codes for Suzuki X90s, rarely seen and unprofitable to sell? If the point of the ad, as it seems to be, is to reach those who are doubting their faith, for every doubting Muslim or Jew or Hindu or Sikh or Scientologist you can find anything from dozens to hundreds of doubting Christians. Which would you target for new members?

[tourivers83]

75. I have faith I need a beer about now and Amanda does too.

These are good points but faith is belief without proof so I would think that everyone doubts at some point or another.



:bounce: :toast: :bounce: :beer:

[dmallind]

76. Yes - and by far most of them who see that sign will doubt in God, not Allah. NT

[spanone]

60. the fox news version of this story ties the atheists in with satanists

of course it does.

[CrispyQ]

66. The first sentence is badly worded!

snip...

Singer, from the atheists' group, said his group has no connection to the Satanists.

"As far as Satan goes, we don't believe in him either," he said.

:rofl: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[handmade34]

71. got this pic in New Orleans last week

[AnnieBW]

77. I believe in multiple Gods

Can I join?

[KittyWampus]

78. Ah, but what DO these people "believe" in/adhere to? Defining oneself by what one is NOT makes one

rather negative and inauthentic.

[IntravenousDemilo]

80. It most certainly does not make one negative and inauthentic.

One does not have to "believe" in something unseen and unknowable in order to have a moral centre. Besides, "authentic" means "of indisputable origin", and "based on facts, accurate or reliable". None of those meanings describes faith.

I dislike that word "believe", by the way, as it implies feeling something is true without actually having proof or definable knowledge of it.

But I am inferring that you think the word "believe" entails more than just trusting. So how's this, then, for an example of how defining oneself by what one is not can be a positive? I believe I do not have diabetes. I believe I am not a murderer. I believe I am not a thief. I believe I am not from North Korea. I can tell you authentically that I test negatively for diabetes, murder, thievery, and North Korean-ness.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RainDog]

107. lol. what a stupid argument

the common nomenclature is "theist" or "atheist." within those two broad categories, people have a variety of opinions.

You're suggesting people care if the common word atheist, i.e. "a" (without) theist (god) means "no god?" You have no point. Or rather, your point seems to be a desire to insult people who don't care if you want to pretend that simply saying "I'm an atheist" somehow isn't good enough for you.

who cares if you don't like the term? don't use it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

111. Are you aware you just called one of the smartest mofos in this board "philosophically illiterate"?

That's a riot.

Keep digging.

Oh, and don't come with "butbutbut I said 'some people', not him." That's a lame CYA.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

113. I've seen you post creationist material on numerous occasions.

:shrug:

[Fumesucker]

81. Let me put it this way for you...

There is a church on just about every other street corner in my town, practically every one of which enthusiastically welcomes new members and yet despite the fact I have lived here for twenty years I have no idea where I might go and meet a fellow atheist.

Indeed, I'd be surprised if there were anywhere to go and specifically meet other atheists, I'd have a pretty good chance at a meeting of say a science fiction club but it's still no guarantee like the guarantee that you're going to meet theists at church.

The only reason that atheists are perceived to define themselves by what they are not is that we are swimming in a sea of religion in this country and sometimes feel like we are drowning in it. I recall after 9/11/2001 feeling extremely left out by all the memorial services that mentioned people of various faiths and yet it took Tony Blair to finally mention that people of no faith at all were also hurting from that event.

[fishwax]

83. that's rather silly

And besides, atheists aren't necessarily defining themselves by what they are not.

[KittyWampus]

95. a-theism. without god. so no, it's not silly.

[fishwax]

100. yes, it's still silly

It's silly to say that "defining oneself by what one is NOT makes one rather negative and inauthentic." Identity can involve both negation and affirmation. Defining yourself by what you're not doesn't exclude also defining yourself by what you are.

As to the other point, that atheists aren't necessarily defining themselves by what they aren't; breaking down the word "atheism" does nothing to dispute that. The billboard in the OP, for instance, was sponsored by a group called "Coalition of Reason," so apparently they're not simply defining themselves by what they aren't.

[RainDog]

108. are you political or apolitical?

cause, you know, your life is somehow minimized if you employ the common nomenclature "apolitical" to simply and briefly state that you are not a person who finds politics a useful endeavor for your (hypothetical) life.

and how dare you use this term as a simple and clear way to express a statement whose most basic terms are political or apolitical.

:crazy: :silly: :rofl:

[beam me up scottie]

86. Really? Are vegetarians "negative and inauthentic"?

I've been told repeatedly that I MUST believe in SOMETHING.

Where can one find a list of things atheists are supposed to ""believe" in/adhere to"?

[KittyWampus]

94. Vegetarians eat vegetables and grains. See? Now that wasn't hard, was it?

If you are a Rationalist or a Materialist or a Reductionist- just freaking say so.

[fishwax]

104. not hard, no -- but nor is it adequate, since basically everybody eats vegetables and grains

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

112. Hey, you know what? I think I'll make some lemonade out of this. Listen:

If it was OK for that poster to make that condescending insult, then it's OK for us to call believers deluded, silly, ignorant, close-minded...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

89. This post is not a poke in the eye.

But it's noticeably closer to it than the billboard in the OP.

"Negative and inauthentic", uh? FOESADIAF. Bigot.

[CrispyQ]

91. What do we adhere to?

We adhere to moral conduct. Do no harm. What you do to one, you do to all. Treat others the way you want to be treated.

There are outstanding people of character & compassion in every group, believers and non, just like there are real shits in every group.

Morality is about how you conduct yourself, not what you believe.

Let me ask you a question. If there were suddenly proof that God doesn't exist, how much would your behvaior change? Is it only your belief in God that adheres you to a moral path?

[KittyWampus]

97. 1st- I am either a Pantheist or an Athiest but prefer the philosophical label Idealist.

Why so many Atheists are so incapable of making basic statements is beyond me.

It's a statement on how crippled our educational system is.

And the fact is, every single human being on the planet has a World View that influences everything they do and don't do and why.

My extremely simple point is- state what you believe in or adhere to rather than making statements about what you are not.

That was the sole point of my original post. That so many DU'ers then extrapolate that I am a theist shows how reactionary and philosophically unversed they are.

[CrispyQ]

98. Your original post didn't make that point at all. --nt

[Luminous Animal]

123. It is not necessary to "believe" or to "adhere" to anything in order to be an atheist...

"Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply a refusal to deny the obvious. Unfortunately, we live in a world in which the obvious is overlooked as a matter of principle. The obvious must be observed and re-observed and argued for. This is a thankless job. It carries with it an aura of petulance and insensitivity. It is, moreover, a job that the atheist does not want."

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Sam_Harris/Atheist_Manifesto.html

And the term atheist, according to Michael Onfray in his well-researched book, Atheist Manifesto is not a label that atheists took upon themselves but rather one that was thrust upon them by libelous theists.

[Orsino]

82. Some people's faith is fragile enough to be threatened by unabashed atheism. n/t

[Odin2005]

87. We Atheists are sick of you poking US in the eye, pastor.

[Quantess]

101. You would think that such an overwhelmingly christian city

could be a little more secure in their faith.

[a la izquierda]

103. YESSS!

I need to go find that billboard. My husband and I account for 2 of 10 that don't consider ourselves Christian (but we're not atheist either).

[Nye Bevan]

105. Hmmmm. So how do they explain the water into wine thing? (nt)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

109. I'm tired of them getting in MY FACE all the time, and telling me I'm going to hell.

Fuck 'em. I refuse to submit to their Christian brainwashing.

Stupid and irrational religion. I have no respect for the Abrahamic religions. They're violent.

There are bastions of rationality in the university towns, Norman and Stillwater.

And there are four Unitarian churches in Tulsa, I found out.

If atheists/agnostics speak up and the xtians find out we exiwst, we're being "militant".

Hitchens is called a bully. I have watched several of his videos and read two of his books and I haven't seen him bully anyone. He's just using facts.

Oooohhhh..... :banghead:

[LanternWaste]

114. I imagine that more than a handful of less-than-stellar minds

I imagine that more than a handful of less-than-stellar minds will equate this to having the beliefs of someone else "shoved down their throats...", that ineffectual, old stand-by that gets righteously trotted out by many when we illustrate our beliefs and/or lack of beliefs in front of others who don't share the same.

[Vehl]

117. We need more BillBoards like these

Ive seen religious billboards quite often, so whats wrong with having atheist billboards?

the fundies can cry me a river :)


PS: also this billboard does not insult any religion, the same however cannot be said of many of the fundies

[frogmarch]

120. Christians think that

atheists should be seen and not heard...wait...heard and not seen....wait...destroyed.

[Common Sense Party]

121. As a faithful Christian, I think we should have more of those billboards.

I'm not threatened by them in the least.

[Ganja Ninja]

124. "It's kind of like they're poking a finger in your eye."

Welcome to the world of just about everybody who isn't a right wing fundamentalist evangelical Christian.

[valerief]

125. Satanism, Christianity, Islam. Are religions worth the trouble? nt

[Arugula Latte]

130. A pox on 'em all, sez I!