I'm wondering if it is really worth it to go back to work...

[jxnmsdemguy65]

I've been out of work for two years, and while it has been stressful at times, it has also been a time of blissful relaxation.

Now I've gone back to a full-time job and I'm absolutely miserable.

This job - dealing with subject matter that I absolutely hate - pays only $11.58 per hour. At my last full - time job, I made over double that.

The worst part of it is that have no time for anything else - now that I work full time, I find I'm working ALL the time - keeping my house clean, washing clothes, and cooking meals.

Of course, I'm single - I decided long ago that marriage and having children in this economy would be way too stressful / expensive.

Is it really worth it to work full time?

Seems like it takes all the joy out of life.

How did we get in this state of mind where people feel obligated to find a job and work?

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. If you can figure out a way to pay your bills. . .

That's the reason most of us work, isn't it?

[ObamaIn2012]

8. I would hope you like your job too

[RandomThoughts]

2. I will not work.

Not till the issue I have is corrected, I am due from years ago.

I did check out work scene a few years ago, to see if things had changed, they hadn't

So somebody is going to correct my issues.



And some think my post here could be work, but they cover such a wide set of views, they don't point to any single thought, but that thoughts exist.



So when commenting on work, it would be insane when already due, to go and work for something. That makes no sense.


And I don't think correlation is causation, and know I will be given money for beer and travel and much enjoyment to compensate for wrong smear done to me years ago.

So I also don't worry about correlations, since I know they can be used to try and train and from that are not real.

The debt due to me is real, and will be paid.


Also society will get more just, and more compassionate. But things have always been that way.

[Codeine]

14. What are you "due"?

Your posts are very difficult to read. How do you support yourself?

[whistler162]

35. Probably ----

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/jim+croce/workin+at+the+car+wash+blues_20071487.html

[Obamanaut]

17. What? nt

[blondeatlast]

39. Please explain what Is "due" to you? You may have a cogent point,

but for the life of me I can't understand a single one of your posts.

[Strelnikov_]

42. Acid is a hell of a drug n/t

[babylonsister]

3. Do you have other options besides working? And there are

a lot of people who would love a full-time job, or any job.

[TBF]

24. It is this attitude that keeps us slaves.

"And there are a lot of people who would love a full-time job, or any job"

In this economy - of course there are. But your implication with that statement is that he should take what he can get and be happy with it. Such a typical owner mentality.

[Dorian Gray]

25. Or

a pragmatic mentality.

Being choosy about work is not a luxury many of us have. A job is a job. It (hopefully) pays the bills. It does not define us.

[TBF]

26. Same attitude.

Of course most of us can not be choosy, but is that something to be proud of? "Oh I am so pragmatic, my job does not define me". Just another way of excusing a system in which most are enslaved.

[LanternWaste]

30. self-validating martyrdom, or over-used allegory?

Of course you're referring to a watered-down, melodramatic, self-validating form of slavery rather than the real thing--- otherwise you diminish and minimize the actual victims of actual slavery.

I can see the term being used in only one of two ways in this context-- self-validating martyrdom, or over-used allegory.

[TBF]

31. Your minimization is startling -

another owner making excuses for capitalism.

[Dorian Gray]

53. Hyperbole

Work = Wage slavery.

I guess it could feel that way if I hated work so much, but I appreciate the job that I do because it allows me to pursue my interests outside of work hours. If I could be paid to do the things I love, that would be awesome. But I have to pay to do those things. Work allows me to do that. :shrug:

[blondeatlast]

49. "Slaves"? Another in the list of words describing horrible things that lose their meaning

when inappropriately applied.

There's lots of grat books on slavery--and the local library will loan one out to you for free.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RB TexLa]

5. Do you have a means of providing for your self without a job?

That is the reason people work. I couldn't go without doing something to earn even without the real need for it.

[FirstLight]

6. I dunno...

But I think the 40 hour workweek is a load of crap.
I too have been out of wirk since 2008, and I don't know how i get things done as it is, much less working a full back-breaking week. I have kids and am single, so it's that much harder... and I have to say i appreciate more now than i did then, except the hours away from home and family!

[ObamaIn2012]

7. In a free economy, you have a choice not to work

Anyone that wants to judge you for that needs to get a life.

You have every right to work part time if that provides for your needs. Are you getting unemployment?

[dkf]

9. I'm curious if the expiration of your unemployment compelled you to work

And what you would have chosen to do should unemployment be available in perpetuity.

[Dappleganger]

10. You're cleaning, washing and cooking for one?

Oh please.

:eyes:

[blondeatlast]

38. No kidding. I'm out of work, raising my son, and my housekeeping duties come nowhere close

to a forty hour week.

[1955doubledie]

11. I have never been so busy / stressed out as in the last 3 years

And everyone else I know is the same...too busy to do the things we all used to do on a regular basis. And we're supposedly the "lucky ones" whose job situation hasn't changed over that time!

Just a few years ago, it seemed like everyone had at least a little spare time to exercise, to go on vacations, to do gardening, etc. Not to mention having the spare MONEY to do all those things.

For just about everyone, it's get up, go to work, do essential chores, go to bed. Day after day...just to keep the lights on and some basic food on the table.

[one_voice]

12. is this a joke?

There's a serious disconnect here.

[TheKentuckian]

13. I believe the story is shortly after an infraction regarding giving in to temptation

[JVS]

15. Maybe it's time to demand better wages

[Quantess]

16. So, keep looking for a better job.

The overwhelming majority of people have always been "obligated" to find a job and work. You are not obligated to stay in a job you can't stand doing, though.

I don't understand the complaint about being "obligated" to work. Do you mean, how did we get in this state of mind where people feel obligated to find any job they can find and keep it, no matter how lousy it is?

[Cid_B]

18. Long as you aren't into things like...

pride or self worth you should be fine. If you are morally ok as a mooch feel free to hop back on the handouts. I'm sure someone will cover you.

[blueamy66]

19. WTF?

This is sarcasm, no?

[proteus_lives]

20. Then find someone who will pay your bills.

[Silver Gaia]

21. I think I sort of get where he’s coming from. Sort of...

Or maybe I’m just riffing off what was said on my own, but it’s something I’ve thought about over the years, too. WORK used to be different for people, and I’m not talking about just the past few years, but over a very long period of time stretching back hundreds of years. The very nature of work has changed for humankind, particularly since industrialization. Work used to be farming, or maybe a craft you learned from your father – like being a cobbler and making shoes – or maybe your mother taught you how to sew clothes for other people. Maybe your family worked in the building trades or were merchants or fishermen or weavers or bookbinders or blacksmiths or woodsmen, and so on. It was usually something passed on within the family. Or if you didn’t want to go into the family trade, you could apprentice to someone else you knew and learn to do something different. A person didn’t have to fret and stew so much about what they wanted to BE. Maybe you didn’t have much, but neither did anyone else you knew within your own social sphere. The stress level was not what it is today in regard to work. There was not the same level of pressure about work that we feel now.

I’m not going to go into slavery or indentured servitude or anything like that since that is obviously very different. I’m talking about people who practiced some sort of trade – the working class. There have been hard times in the past, that’s for sure. But on the whole, I think WORK was tied much more closely to HOME and FAMILY than what we have now, and was, ultimately, more satisfying and not such a struggle.

The whole idea of a career, of having to find a job (nowadays, any job), and keep it whether you like it or not, just in order to survive – the way we do now – is a relatively new development in human history. It was not such a struggle and didn’t often force us to do things that were against our nature just to survive.

Work should not be ALL there is in our lives. We need to have time to enjoy our lives as well, to spend time doing nothing but talking with our beloved, to laugh with our children, to spend time in a garden or fishing or some other relaxing pursuit. Too often, our lives revolve around work, and it becomes the most important thing we do in a day. Everything else is secondary. This is just no way to live. We are slaves to the modern way of life. It is what it is. But I’m not sure it’s really in our best interest in the general sense. I think it’s making us crazy in a lot of ways – violence that makes no sense, depression off the charts and people taking drugs (anti-depressants) just to cope, rudeness, lack of caring about fellow human beings, and on and on. Yeah, yeah, that sort of thing (minus anti-depressant drugs) can be found in other eras as well, but I wonder about the overall percentage of people in the past who felt emotionally satisfied with their lives overall as compared to now. There seems to be an overall discontent with the very nature of our lives, and a lot of that can be tied to how we are expected to live our lives.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. People in agrarian socieites may be close to home and family, but it could still be a struggle

There's plenty of stress involved in getting enough to eat out of a small plot of land, having enough to see you through winter if you're in a cold climate, dealing with the yearly variations of drought, flood etc. Then you have to gather fuel for cooking and heating, keep your home in good condition if it's made of wood, mud and thatch, or get enough money (or an exchangeable surplus) to pay someone to do that if the construction is more complicated. Then you need to weave your own cloth, or cure your own hides, and make your own clothes, or, again, earn the money/surplus to obtain them from someone else. Then there was the stress of illness without any decent medical help.

Hunter-gatherers don't have an idyllic life either. They're dependent on the local flora and fauna staying abundant, and hunting with primitive weapons is no picnic.

The vast majority of humans have always had to work hard to stay alive and healthy. A few have been lucky enough to have a family wealthy enough to have built up lots of inheritable wealth, or to have found a niche with plenty of resources and little competition from other humans, so that they have significant leisure time. But such situations don't last for long - humans tend to expand the population to use the available resources.

[Silver Gaia]

40. I never said that there weren't any struggles at all,

nor any stresses involved in day-to-day living (whether in the past or now). Of course there were the stresses as you describe (and those still exist today: will I have enough to eat? shelter? etc.). That, I feel, is a given, and is present for all but the very wealthy (in any era). I wasn't trying to glamorize the past, nor paint an idyllic picture. However, the stress you speak of was (and is) of a different sort than what I am talking about. I was speaking of one sort of stress in particular. This inner struggle, this angst, of what-to-do-with-my-life/who-am-I/where-do-I-belong in regard to WORK is something comparatively recent, and is something that, I feel, some people have a difficult time dealing with (maybe even more so these days). We, as the human species, have yet to catch up with this particular sort of stress at the inner emotional level.

Thanks for your post. Your points are valid, and I hope I have clarified my thinking in response.

[Vinca]

22. Sit down and consider your options. For $11.58 an hour you

shouldn't be stuck doing something you hate. Think about what you enjoy doing and then figure out how to make money at it. If you like to bake, sell cupcakes. If you like antiques, go on the hunt and resell online or in a shop. Self-employment is scary, especially given the health insurance system in this country, but I couldn't imagine working for anyone else at this point in my life.

[Phil The Cat]

55. Where do I sign?

I'll take $11.58 an hour, as long as it is reasonably safe work!

And being an ex-Detroit cab driver, making about $4 an hour for 72 hour work weeks, reasonably safe has a wide berth!

[NNN0LHI]

28. I see you have been taking some heat on this post but I understand

I was once laid off for just short of two years myself. And to be perfectly honest I wasn't worth a fuck when I finally went back to work. My entire attitude had changed. And not for the better either. All I could think about was retiring. I was fortunate enough that I was able to retire with 30 and out at 48 years old and I am glad I did. Life has never been better since I retired.

I know what you are going through. And this issue should be discussed more. I doubt long term unemployment is good for anyone. Good luck and I wish you the best.

And for those who think this comes from laziness, it is not. Being unemployed for an extended period can break you. It broke me.

Don

[jxnmsdemguy65]

36. Thanks for your support....

there was a documentary on PBS a while back that made the point that a lot of men who went through the Depression basically never made another dime in their life.

Their spirits were simply too broken to go back to work. My grandfather was one of them. While he was able to get back to work, he died a young man, at 54 (too much cumulative stress?)

There is a limit to what the human psyche can take.

Reagnism and free-market economics have made most work environments into a mental Auschwitz...

I'll be 45 in a month, and, like you, all I can think of is retirement.

I want out of this shit (capitalism) once and for all.

[Phil The Cat]

56. Socialism is not the cure for lazy!

A strong Socialist society, able to meet the needs, and a reasonable amount of the desires, of its citizens requires a strong commitment in labor from the participants of said society!

Socialism is NOT about "sit on my backside, write poems for an hour a day, and get all the food, clothes, shelter, and money it takes to make me happy and fulfilled"!

SOMEBODY has to dump the trash! Someone has to pick the fruit, to transport the patient, to lay the bricks, to cook the food, etc. etc.!

[aikoaiko]

29. If you were happier not working then so be it.

You didn't mention being in the dole so I assume you have other options.

However if you are planning on using government assistance instead of working by choice, then I would think you would rather work then depend on the taxed income of working others (who also may not like working). In that sense, it is proper to feel obligated to work even when the work is not personally satisfying.

[TBF]

32. I believe many feel this way -

I have had the same thoughts.

I "retired" at 40 when I had my second child. I worked long hours from the time I was 20 (and before then part-time since I was 12). Finally in my late 30's I decided to have children.

I planned to stay retired, but now I am thinking of it as more of a "sabbatical" and planning to return to work, if I can get something after the 4 yrs. off. It may have to be volunteer at first, I guess, to have some current references and show that I can still put in the effort and commit to something. My husband makes a very good salary, so I do feel guilty about taking a job away from someone who needs it to survive, but we have decided the economy is too unstable to rely on one paycheck. People who are very good at what they do are being down-sized regularly these days, and we'd hate to find ourselves living off savings. So, back to work I will go.

I am hoping by maybe getting in some volunteer hours I might be able to find work I could find somewhat fulfilling, but we'll see.

I can totally understand your feelings and wish you the best with your decisions.

[flamingdem]

33. Maybe the issue is the amount you are making

You'd feel more motivation with a higher salary? More respect? Going back to school might be an answer. Many community colleges are free if you make a low yearly amount.

[TBF]

34. Also -

there is a poster I met on here & other boards named "Naturyl". Here is one of his writings entitled "Freedom, Capitalism, and Work". He is the last person I talked with about this subject, but that was some time ago. But I do know some, like Naturyl, have reflected and written on this topic with sensitivity.

http://naturyl.humanists.net/synthesis/freedom.html

[Silver Gaia]

43. Thanks for posting this link.

Excellent read.

[Recovered Repug]

37. I have 2 questions.

1. Is your name Peter Gibbons?

2. Did you used to work at Initech?

[Dorian Gray]

54. Office Space

was on IFC last night. Love that movie!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. I spent a few years unemployed and loved being out of the rat race.

Got by just doing odd jobs, mostly manual labor, that were just enough to buy the groceries and gas.

Now that I'm retired, I have that feeling of freedom again.

[sufrommich]

44. People feel obligated to find a job and work because we

like a roof over our heads and food to eat. It's not really that complicated. If you can manage without those things, good for you.

[TBF]

45. And also because it is what capitalism preaches -

it is what we learn from the time we are young so we don't question it.

He's just questioning that "fact" which seems to make capitalists very nervous.

[Codeine]

47. If people did not work

where would our food, clothing, housing, and transportation come from?

People in socialist systems have to get up and haul their asses to work daily too. Having a job and contributing is not limited to capitalism. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs," or something very close to that, right?

Why the hell should someone be allowed to sit on their ass all day while other people provide the labor that drives society?

[CTyankee]

50. AT some point we have to find a reason to live here....

I am NOT saying people should have to labor without sufficient pay, or without labor unions to help them secure benefits and job security. I know it is difficult to do, but at least it gets the bills paid and your life can go on reasonably well....at leas that has been my experience...altho I don't know, given the rise in heath care costs....

[sufrommich]

48. Really? Which political system does not demand work for pay?

[TBF]

46. And also because it is what capitalism preaches -

it is what we learn from the time we are young so we don't question it.

He's just questioning that "fact" which seems to make capitalists very nervous.

[Curmudgeoness]

51. I can relate. I am just lucky that I have not been out of work

long enough to appreciate the freedom. I am single, a homeowner, and also have to find time to clean, cook, do yard work, and still relax after a full-time job. So, nothing is ever done as well as it should be. Dust everywhere, cat hair needs vacuumed, or grass needs mowed. I have learned that you cannot do it all. And time for myself is more important.

[chillspike]

52. Some people with different ideas about work & money:

http://www.whywork.org/ <----- Site is no longer administered, however.

Living Without Money Site (Daniel Suelo): http://sites.google.com/site/livingwithoutmoney/

Another Living Without Money Site (about Heidemarie Schwermer): http://www.livingwithoutmoney.tv/

Tramping Penniless: http://anabolismist.blogspot.com/

How to live self sufficient: http://www.simplesolarhomesteading.com/