Karzai and others tell us what we can't even think about

[Bragi]

Below are two of the statements from leaders in the Muslim world that US media are largely ignoring/suppressing because, well, gee, I wonder why?

On the streets of Kabul demonstrators burned a US flag and chanted "Death to Christians" after Friday prayers.

Many were incensed that the US had not banned the Koran bonfire.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai said: "We have heard that in the US a pastor has decided to insult Korans.

"Now, although we have heard that they are not doing this, we tell them they should not even think of it.

Well okay Hamid, thanks for that head-up on something that is wrong to even think about. His statement contrasts nicely with the kind of values we think we are fighting for in his dismal country.

And it turns out the President of Indonesia, of the largest Mulsim nation in the world, also has advice for us:

In a speech marking the end of Ramadan, President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono said: "I'm, of course, aware of the reported cancellation of the deplorable act by Terry Jones. However, none of us can be complacent until such a despicable idea is totally extinguished."

Not sure what "extinguished" means, but naturally, his statement gives everyone justification to keep protesting against Jones' non-burning of the Koran.

See http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/09/11/president-obama-in-plea-for-calm-amid-fury-over-pastor-s-fire-threat-to-korans-115875-22552624/#ixzz0zESIzejb

[Swede]

1. The muslim world is insulted by this beyond our understanding.

It's unnerving.

[riderinthestorm]

3. Burning of the Quran as a proxy for their hatred of our wars, our murdering Muslims

our Predator drones, our meddling into their affairs....

The rage about burning the Quran to me at least, now appears to be some kind of proxy for our "greater" evils. I understand that this is also a "desecration" of their holy book but the wholesale manipulation by the foreign governments about the issue is all out of proportion imho. And our own government's massive mobilization against this act - which should have been ignored and it would never have been elevated to this degree - indicates to me that they also understand that they have "awoken the sleeping giant" (the Muslim world) in ways that aren't healthy at all.

[USArmyParatrooper]

5. And all the death and destruction over the Danish cartoon was a proxy for what?

[riderinthestorm]

9. Yeah, good point.

Sigh. America's (the amorphous "west" too) loutish behavior which has gone on for decades, has come home to roost I'm afraid. When even the leaders of Muslim countries fan the flames of their populations' rage about issues that we KNOW they understand about the west (principles like freedom of speech, freedom of the press etc.) then obviously things have gone beyond the simple guy on the streets of Kabul who is revved up by Kabul's version of Faux News.

I'd theorize that the cartoon episode over-reaction was the first manifestation of the waves of rage and revulsion from Muslims towards "our" actions, and the Quran burning over-reaction is another. They all seem of a piece don't they?

And like the cartoons, it's imperative imho that we don't back down from our principles. I know there's a substantial number of DUers who are deeply troubled that Americans would prioritize "our rights" over the Muslim world's sense of outrage (and the consequences of that outrage) with shit like burning the Quran or publishing the cartoons, but if our guys are truly fighting for our freedoms over there, then they understand the consequences when/if those rights are implemented.

It's a theory that's all, but I can't figure out any other reason for the leaders of these countries to jump on this bandwagon, fueling their people's fire even more.

[USArmyParatrooper]

15. I think you're reading too much into it

In my opinion this case can simply be seen at face value. Theocracies breed extremism and Islam is no different.

[riderinthestorm]

16. Heh. Probably. I have the morning off today so I'm contemplative.

Indonesia's president jumping on this bandwagon is troubling though. He knows better. Indonesia isn't Afghanistan.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

[IndianaGreen]

13. You prove the point that the US should bring all the troops home and leave the Middle East

and SW Asia forever!

[stray cat]

7. how condescending to Arabs - to think they are so stupid as to not know what they are angry about

[riderinthestorm]

12. Perhaps. I believe they have the same propagandistic outlets that we do

that aren't even nearly as truthful as they should be, and thus manipulate people into doing stupid shit.

Could Karzai or the leader of Indonesia have made a different statement; like "the west has freedom of speech, freedom of the press" etc.? Of course they could have - they understand our constitutions very well I'm sure. Instead they've thrown themselves in with the lowest common denominator and furthermore, are telling us to shut the fuck up or else.

I don't think they are "stupid" where they get so worked up over burning the book, or cartoons, that they launch themselves into suicidal killing sprees - I don't think they have all the facts in front of them.

[EFerrari]

18. It wouldn't profit Karzai to speak to his people in the language

of Western values and I don't see why we should expect him to. He's unpopular enough as it is.

[riderinthestorm]

19. Good point but the Americans aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

He's leading his people into a very dangerous abyss as I'm sure he knows, to be "popular" with his people for... how long? Not long since his other faults (like his corruption) will soon overshadow this moment. But he will be left with the ugly ramifications of this forever. Whipping up the street over this kind of issue doesn't go away imho.

He didn't have to say anything at all about it, honestly. Just like Obama didn't have to say anything or Petraeus or any of them. They've all played their part in making this a big. fucking. deal.

What. the. fuck? Pretty damn crazy all around.

[EFerrari]

20. Of the three, Karzai might have been the only one who could benefit

from this craziness. Why anyone in our government gave it play is beyond me. Maybe it's just habitual by now.

[elehhhhna]

22. wall to wall media coverage made this thing happen, imo

[Bragi]

25. If you mean coverage by Muslim mieda, you're correct

This Salon article (below) says media in the Muslim world were all over this story long before the US media got heavily involved...

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/09/10/terry_jones_koran_burn_timeline/index.html

[elehhhhna]

26. didn't know that. not surprising, though.

golly, the people we invade and occupy are so touchy.

[Bragi]

17. You wrote:

"Burning of the Quran as a proxy for their hatred of our wars, our murdering Muslims ,our Predator drones, our meddling into their affairs...." Posted by riderinthestorm

If we debate those topics, I'll bet we'd be 99 per cent in agreement and fine-tuning our debating skills in no time at all.

For the moment, I'm trying to understand a big element that a lot of people are spending a lot of time promoting not talking about, namely: the small p" political-religious-constitutional dimensions of this matter.

[WinkyDink]

23. "The muslim world" is always aggrieved, period. Too bad.

[USArmyParatrooper]

2. Utterly Ridiculous

I can't blame poor, Pashtun farmers in Afghanistan for not knowing about or understanding Western freedoms. But when leaders of nations criticize our country because we don't control the thoughts of every citizen that goes beyond the pale.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

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[johnroshan]

4. This is one of those moments..

When you understand how momentous freedom of speech and expression is! :o

[Gecko6400]

10. +10K!!!

[Imajika]

8. Sorry, but much of the Muslim world is just utterly backward...

...there is no getting around it.

There is no real "war on terrorism". The actual war is a religious civil war pitting Muslim modernists versus fundamentalists.

Large swaths of the Islamic world are about 200-300 years behind us in terms of modernity. They will catch up quick given the information we are in, but it won't seem that way and it will be incredibly bloody.

Remember, we are imposing democracy on many people that are simply not ready to responsibly use it. To the extent that modernists need power to affect any progressive change, they will need to say ridiculous things such as what Karzai just did to get elected to anything. And yes, I'm aware Karzai probably cheated - the point is, if he doesn't say things like "we tell then they should not even think of it" he couldn't even get enough votes to swindle his way over the top.

[BolivarianHero]

11. Good point...

"we are imposing democracy on many people that are simply not ready to responsibly use it."

Alabama and Texas are not yet ready for democratic elections.

[Swamp Rat]

14. Huh?... Did Bushler's hand-picked puppet-thief say something?

[L0oniX]

21. I'm burning a koran right now and there's no tv crew here to see it.

[lib2DaBone]

24. Stop shipping pallets of cash.. bring our troops home....

..just get the hell out of there..