Question about recovering alcoholics

[FSogol]

Tomorrow we have a relative stopping by for dinner. They are a recovering alcoholic. We'll have a dry afternoon/dinner (a rarity at Casa de FSogol). However, I just discovered that my wife was planning on making beef bourguignon which contains wine. Most of the alcohol in food cooks out but, I'm wondering if we should make something else. What says DU?


Mods: Sorry if this is in the wrong forum.

[htuttle]

1. In my experience, it depends on the person...

...and how long they've been dry, etc.

You might want to just ask them. :shrug:

[Dorian Gray]

48. Agree

I'd ask them. My husband (3 years sober) would be happy to eat the Bourgignon, but others may be more uncomfortable with it. Good luck, though!

[SharonAnn]

2. I'm a recovering alcoholic, and for me it would be fine. Don't know about others, though.

For those of us who have been in recovery a while, we're usually OK with other people drinking.

It is nice when the host/hostess provides us with an interesting drink but it's not necessary. Sometimes I make virgin pina coladas for those of us who don't have a cocktail before dinner. Other times it's Perrier with a lime wedge.

It's thoughtful of you to consider the person when making plans. Props to you!

BTW, it's usually OK to just call and ask. We recovering alcoholics have had to learn to be honest if we hope to stay sober. If asked, we'll usually let you know. Sometimes we'll tell you even if we're not asked!

[FSogol]

3. Ok, thanks for the replies everyone.

:hi:

[applegrove]

6. I agree.

[monmouth]

4. I would have no problem with it either but have always been around

others who do drink and am comfortable with that also. I guess it depends, I know I can't but that only applies to me. Others should enjoy what they enjoy...I cooked with wine all of the time, adds that extra flavor.

[msanthrope]

5. Ask.

Some alcoholics are really bothered by it, some are not.

I've had guests who were recovering alcoholics go both ways....another course to watch out for is dessert.

[opihimoimoi]

7. The Alcohol evaporates leaving the wine taste only.. perfecto. :o)

[Lochloosa]

8. I disagree. The "taste" can be enough. Have you ever just had a "taste" of coke?

[opihimoimoi]

13. Nothing is automatic in cooking...tis dependent on zee cook

how zee wine is used is variable....

[jmm]

12. Sometimes the taste is the problem.

I have a relative in AA who has no problem with people drinking when she's around. She's even bought alcoholic drinks for her sons and I while we were out but she doesn't feel comfortable eating anything if she can taste the alcohol in it. For example, when discussing baked goods with her she's said she was ok with eating something made with vanilla extract but not rum cake.

[HuckleB]

25. And the study that proves this assertion is...?

[jmm]

52. Some days DU never ceases to amaze me.

I need a study to prove one person I know in recovery doesn't want to taste alcohol?

I don't care if she can't get drunk, tipsy, etc. off of it, that's where her comfort level is. Everybody is different and I respect her right to draw her own boundaries.

[HuckleB]

60. If your going to be fundamentalist about something, then prove the need.

[jmm]

61. Are all preferences fundamentalist or just the ones you disagree with? (n/t)

[uppityperson]

66. I prefer to not eat deep fried cockroaches as it makes me nauseous.

No "study" has been done. Do I need to "prove the need"?

[Lochloosa]

9. Make spaghetti

[A-Schwarzenegger]

10. Sober 24 years & I don't eat food cooked in alcohol.

I would ask the person beforehand.

[pinboy3niner]

39. Good advice

Just don't go in the attic--I suspect Oscar has stored mass quantities of alcohol there. :)

[A-Schwarzenegger]

43. The strongest thing he drinks is okra juice.

Alcohol doesn't affect him cause
he has no inhibitions to lower &
if he was any relaxeder he'd melt.

[pinboy3niner]

45. Oh, thank God!

He sure doesn't NEED any kind of fuel to exacerbate his behavior to some unimaginable new level.

When I hear something go bump in the night, I fear that it's either some human intruder--or it's Oscar on one of his jaunts. And I can't decide which I should be more afraid of...

[A-Schwarzenegger]

72. You don't have to be afraid of him.

As long as you always tell the truth.
If you don't, he has this unnerving way
of looking at you, studying your face, squinting,
turning his head slowly to examine you with one eye and
then the other, examining your face up & down & back
& forth for any giveaway tics & twitches.

[uppityperson]

68. oooo, melted Oscar. That would be interesting to see.

hi to Oscar, hoping he had a good summer

[A-Schwarzenegger]

71. He had a very good summer at the beach with my metal detector.

"Hey, you, animal! That's my purse!"

He's very non-discriminatory
as far as who owns things goes.

[madokie]

54. I guess its to each his own

I've been sober after 50 plus years of drinking, I admit it was slowly at first but still I drank for years and now after 3 or it may be 4 years of not drinking it doesn't bother me in the least if I eat something that has alcohol in it or if the person setting right next to me is shitfaced, other than getting on my nerves maybe. I just woke up hung over one morning and said to myself this is bullshit and I've not been drunk since. I might drink a wine cooler once in a great while but it never leads to another and then another and so on. I don't get it that quiting anything can be so difficult when you want to stop to begin with. Most all our friends drink and they come to our house or we go to theirs, hell my wife drinks wine ocassionally, a beer too sometimes, son drinks beer but that doesn't make it that I have to. Neither of them have a problem with alcohol like I did so I see no reason for either to quit unless they feel they want to at some point. I notice that I am generally moving away from the friends who do have a drinking problem but its not because of the alcohol as much as it is the 'tude that comes with it for some people, most people actually when they get really drunk.
I hope to live 20 more years so I can make a statement like I've been sober for 24 years. I find that everything I do is so much more pleasurable since I quit the sauce.
Kudo's to you for staying sober for 24 years and hoping that continues. Hopefully I'll make it that far

[A-Schwarzenegger]

70. Thanks, madokie.

And good thoughts to you.
It truly is to each their own. I don't eat food cooked in
alcohol not really because I think it'll make me drink but just on
personal preference that makes things simpler. I never enjoyed
the taste of alcohol anyway. I drank to get drunk. As far
as being around practicing drunks, yeah, it can be annoying,
but I'm around them not infrequently in trying to help others that
want & need help in stopping. We had a very drunk man at a meeting
Friday night. Had to call the paramedics, in fact. It looks like
he's probably dying of it.

[Liquorice]

11. A good friend of mine is a recovering alcoholic. She says she can't

eat anything that is cooked with alcohol. She says that's what AA recommends. I would probably cook something else. JMO

[handmade34]

14. I would just change the menu

and not risk offending or putting anyone at risk... so many delicious meals to make,

[prolesunited]

15. Skip the alcohol

and the meat. }(

[seabeyond]

16. i say... find another recipe. it is hard enough for these dudes. plenty of recipes without

booze. just make it easy for them.

and if they find out, they feel like they have cheated

how unfair

[Electric Monk]

17. Even the tiniest bit of alcohol can knock a recovering alcoholic off the wagon

so, I'd concur with some of the above replies: find a different recipe.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FSogol]

18. Thanks. We'll have grilled salmon instead. n/t

[seabeyond]

19. bah hahaha. good idea. thumbs up. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

22. It's hard to go wrong with grilled salmon.

If it's a good piece of fish. Yum.

[Dorian Gray]

49. Thumbs up

Reading your response after all the other bizarre posts above it (that came much after it) made me laugh. In a good way. I'm sure your guest will appreciate the effort you guys went to in order to serve something that wouldn't be problematic.

[aikoaiko]

55. +1

Good idea.

[LucasD]

20. Alcohol does not cook off...

... at least not all of it. It was a long standing myth that has now been debunked.

Here is just one of many tests that have been done recently:

http://cooking.cdkitchen.com/AHealthyBite/385.html

It is hard to say what would happen to ALL recovering (and they could be sober for 30 years, but still consider themselves to be recovering) alcoholics if they were to consume a small amount of alcohol in food without being aware of it, but it certainly
will not produce the "buzz" that triggers the desire for more alcohol.

My wife is a recovering alcoholic and we will occasionally cook with wine, but once we're done making the meal we will give the rest of the bottle to our friends to remove the temptation.

[HuckleB]

21. If the food is fine for serving to kids, it's fine for an alcoholic.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

65. I do not think you are well educated about alcoholism or alcoholics

Though I would hope people would not serve food with any alcohol in it to kids, it depends on how old the "kid" is. Some alcoholics have found they need to avoid all alcohol forever.

There are all sorts of people with all sorts of coping with alcoholism, with all sorts of tolerance to any alcohol. There is a combination of physical addiction and psychological component, do I'd rather be cautious with what I served than blithely say "oh, it's ok for kids, it's ok for you". But then that is me.

[sandnsea]

26. How long sober?

If newly sober, say less than 3 years, make the roast without the wine.

If over 3 years, they should be fine and if they aren't, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. There is no earthly reason an alcoholic should relapse over a piece of friggin' meat. If they THINK they could, then they need to revisit the steps, get a new sponsor, something.

Hope you have a great time and the most important thing is to dish up big servings of love!

[tblue37]

34. I would think it would be easy enough to choose a recipe without alcohol.

I don't see why she has to cook that particular recipe. If her guest happened to be a vegetarian, would she insist on serving steak?

[sandnsea]

38. I wouldn't serve a special meal for a vegetarian

I eat meat at dinner. I'd think about the side dishes, make sure there were beans and salad, that kind of thing. I wouldn't expect a vegetarian to serve me meat at their house either.

People sure are demanding if they think everybody should upend their entire life over a friggin' meal.

[tblue37]

41. I would not be upending her life for a hostess to cook a dish that she

knows her guest can eat. There are so many kinds of food that one can prepare that I would not insist on making something my guest could not eat. If the vegetarian guest was merely one of several, then I would serve meat, poultry, or seafood , knowing that most of the others would want animal protein with a meal, but I would make sure that there were dishes with no animal products in them, and that those dishes would add up to a balanced and satisfying meal for the vegetarian guest.

But if that vegetarian happened to be my only guest, then I would certainly prepare a vegetarian meal for dinner that night. It wouldn't kill me or any other carnivores in the family to go without animal protein for one night, and there are plenty of delicious and nutritious vegetarian meals I could make. A host/hostess should want to make a guest feel at home, welcomed and comfortable. It would not be gracious to deliberately serve a meat dish for dinner after inviting a vegetarian as a guest, unless other invited guests were carnivores, in which case politeness would call for accommodating the dietary inclinations of all the guests, which would mean making a meat dish but ensuring that the vegetarian was also offered a good meal that met his dietary restrictions.

If someone is unwilling to bend a little to prepare a vegetarian meal for an invited guest, then that person should not invite a vegetarian for dinner.

Where the alcohol is concerned, though, it is even more obvious that one can omit the stuff from the main dish. True, in this country most people do expect animal protein to be served as part of the main dish at dinner, so if other guests are included in the dinner party, then animal protein should probably be included. But no one needs to prepare a dish with alcohol. Many, perhaps even most, dishes are not prepared with alcohol, and alcohol-prepared dishes are not the common expectation the way animal protein is. Thus it is the easiest thing in the world to select a recipe that does not involve alcohol, and refusing to do so strikes me as terribly passive-aggressive. If one feels that much hostility toward one's guest, then it is better not to invite him to dinner at all!

Selecting dish B rather than dish A to prepare is not anywhere near "upending" one's life, whereas getting off track in recovery from alcoholism certainly is.

[sandnsea]

44. Wow. Note to self. Tblue37 has way too many rules n/t

[tblue37]

47. How does trying to be hospitable one's guests amount to having

way too many rules? If you invite someone to dinner, you should be considerate of that person. If you don't want to be considerate, then why bother inviting the person in the first place?

[pinboy3niner]

57. That's OK--I have only one

If I invite a vegetarian or vegan to dinner, I will serve them a meal that accomodates their preferences. To do otherwise would be disrespectful to my guests (who usually are my friends, but I'd treat a stranger the same way).

Only one rule, my friend. How's that?

:hi:

[sandnsea]

63. And I said I'd make sure there were food they could eat

That all the side dishes were vegan. Not much difference really. One makes it into a production and the other considers it life as usual. And again, I wouldn't remotely expect a vegan to serve me meat at their house. I think I must have a circle of friends that don't sweat the small stuff, and know that it's all small stuff. Especially a piece of stupid meat.

[dsc]

67. If I invited the vegetarian I would serve a protein they could eat

I wouldn't refrain from having a meat option but I would be sure there was a protein for them as well. It is called being a good host.

[red red red]

27. My husband was a recovering alcoholic...

I would not cook with alcohol although he said it would be OK. (He relapsed after a number of years and passed away, not able to recover again) Also, I saw on the Food Channel a program which dealt with questions - one of the questions was if alcohol cooked out of food. They did tests and it was reported that you cannot totally cook the alcohol out.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Political Tiger]

29. Kudos to you for being thoughtful! n/t

[m00nbeam]

30. You are doing the right thing by changing the menu to accomodate your relative

No sense in causing any discomfort for your guest because of what you are serving.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. And like I said, it's hard to go wrong with grilled salmon.

:thumbsup:

[m00nbeam]

32. Yes indeed

A most excellent menu selection! :)

[K8-EEE]

36. We are having salmon tomorrow too!

BBQd salmon tacos! Guacamole! Chips!

[Hannah Bell]

33. It depends on the person, but why take the risk or embarrass the person by asking? Just cook some-

thing else.

Easiest solution.

There are plenty of things you can cook with similar ingredients but no alcohol.

[K8-EEE]

35. Think of it as an allergy -- avoid the alcohol

Try something like this stew, similar ingredience with balsamic vinegar standing in for the wine.

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/recipe/balsamic-beef-stew.html

I cook with wine too....but in all honesty I would not take the chance and serve anything cooked with alcohol to a recovering alcoholic. I mean there's lots of other things to make. If I knew somebody had an awful reaction to peanuts I would not make a dish with peanuts in it. I think of it as a substance they cannot have.

[Shanti Mama]

37. Ask, ask, ask, and don't be awkward

I've been sober since '87. People who are relaxed and ask about my preferences make things very easy and light. Those who are awkward and change their behavior because I'm there make it more awkward for me.

Someone brand new to recovery might not feel the same, but I still urge you to ask, just the way you might ask if someone is a vegetarian.

[Common Sense Party]

40. Depends on how it's cooked--could have anywhere from 5% to 85% of its alcohol

retained, according to one study.

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Q-A/AlcoholCooking.htm

I don't drink, and I would probably not want to try something cooked in booze.

[pitohui]

42. the alcohol burns off

in theory it would be fine

in practice the drunk makes any damn excuse to drink so if your wife makes this dish she should never, ever let the drunk know about the cooking process, if you know ANYTHING about chemistry or cooking, you know that the alcohol burns off, if you know ANYTHING abt the psychology of bossy-ass dry drunks who want to blame you when they go off the wagon, you know that if you give 'em that little excuse...

in short, cook the food knowing that it won't contain alcohol and won't hurt the person IF you can also keep a straight face and never admit that a splash of cooked-off wine was involved

it depends on how good your wife is at keeping her recipes under her hat and just smiling when complimented and giving false instructions if asked...

there is no physical harm that can come to anyone from this recipe but a lot of hoopla can happen if you don't know how to tell a little white lie

everyone who eats in a restaurant eats food cooked in alcohol but the ones upthread who maintain sobriety are the ones who are in 1) either in reality or 2) in blissful ignorance, and it really doesn't matter which because ALCOHOL burns off...there is no way for it to get a physical hook in the person if it's cooked and if you keep a straight face, no way for the psychological hook to get there either

[CreekDog]

58. you strike again

x(

[RainDog]

46. if someone is a guest in your home, it would be gracious not to feed them something with alcohol

even if it cooks off.

why put someone in an awkward situation? there are plenty of other things to make for dinner.

[pinboy3niner]

51. From what I've read, it doesn't ALL cook off

But even if it did, the flavor alone could spark a desire for more, for some.

You're absolutely right--why would anyone even consider cooking with alcohol, knowing you'll have a guest who is abstinent. Especially when, for some, it may be a far more serious matter than mere awkwardness?

It seems to me a simple matter of treating people with consideration and respect--something I'd give a stranger, so denying it to a guest in my home would be all the more unthinkable.

Too bad we have so few recipes available that don't incorporate alcohol. :sarcasm:

[WCGreen]

50. I've been sober now for 26 years....

I will occassionally drink NA beer which does have a tiny amount of Alcohol in the mix. I also garggle with Listereen and that has a touch of Alcohol in it as well. I eat everything I want, even Banana Foster and have not fallen off the wagon.

So, I say call them up and just ask if they allow themselves to eat food cooked in alcohol.

That is the best thing for all concerned. Let them make the decision.

[dsc]

69. Listereen has way more than a touch of alcohol in it

It is over half alcohol last I checked.

[pinboy3niner]

53. You're in the right forum, but one visitor here was not

I think he was looking for the Disrupting Forum--but since we don't have one, he wound up here by mistake.

Once again, hats off to the Mods. This thread is looking a lot better than it did before. :)

[old mark]

56. I am a recovering alcoholic with over 22 years - I use cooking sherry when

I make beef and pork roasts and would not do so if it had any consequences - the alcohol cooks off very readily. If you are still nervous about it, add a cup of strong black coffee instead and call it something else.


mark

ADDED: Thanks for asking and being concerned about it. Many people are not.
Rec.

[Warren Stupidity]

59. If your friend is so fragile that beef bourguignon => bender

the recovery ain't going to work anyway, so worry not.

Just my opinion of course, based on 22 years of sobriety.

[w8liftinglady]

62. I tend to stay away from "obvious" things..

It will totally depend on the individual.if eating food with alcohol leads them to believe they can "hold their liquor"...then they need to back off(as was my issue).
better to let him/her know...and have a little something else for them.

[ljm2002]

64. I would choose a different dish...

...because some alcoholics really cannot have any hint of alcohol. Yes, the alcohol will mostly cook out, but why take the chance? You're already adjusting to not serve alcohol, why go with a dish that has wine in it?

Just my $.02.