„Principiis obsta" - Beware of the beginnings. Why we should use nazi comparisons.

[howard112211]

Routinely people use nazi comparisons in discussions as a means of over the top attack against an adversary. This happens so frequently in internet debates that
the "Godwin Law" has been introduced, which states that the person using a nazi comparison automatically loses the debate.

There is an inherent danger in dismissing any type of comparison to nazis or the third reich from the outset: Namely that one is no longer able to be vigilant
towards and call out developments or conditions that lead to the third reich.

Is "Bush equals Hitler" over the top? Of course. It is a drastically inaccurate overstatement. The scale is off by a factor of one hundered. But yet: Take the
premise of neo-con rule and extrapolate to the future. Let's assume Bush was followed by Palin, and Palin was followed by another Republican, isn't the direction
that they were and would have been taking the country into, that of an authoritarian state that possibly brought the world the third world war? I don't think
that is such an unrealistic scenario.

There is a difference between "Bush equals Hitler" and "Obama equals Hitler", because the later statement has no motivation from reality at all, while the former
is motivated by comparisons with regards to aggressive warfare and disrespect for the constitution. While the actual statement itsself may be over the top, the
concerns underlying it are real and well justified.

It is also not unreasonable to compare the Tea Party to the early NSDAP of Germany. They are in fact very similar. They are fed by the same sentiments. They both are
a movement that is driven by economic hardships, that feed upon a feeling of victimization and which are authoritarian, anti-communistic and xenophobic, looking
for simple solutions and strong leaders. Both are propped up by the conservative establishment with hopes of personal gain, and over both the conservative
establishment has lost control over. No one in their right mind would compare them to the late third reich, when Hitler was firmly in power, but to the early
days where Hitler was still some loon giving angry speeches in local pubs the comparison is not so far off.

[RandomThoughts]

1. You have to seperate What hitler did from what motivated him.

What motivated him is in millions of people, however systems try and stop that thought process from doing what he did.

As far as comparisons, what made him so bad is being willing to kill people because he thought some people were superior then others. And many have that flaw.



And you adding angry speeches in pubs, is funny. That is a speaking device the Hitler types might use.


It is not the speeches, nor the pubs, nor even him being a loon, it was his hate and anger, and others same hate and anger that caused the problems.

[Loudmxr]

2. I agree. There can be a reasoned comparison to the recent past and the NAZIS.

Take for example the Reichstag fire. Who was to blame? The communists? The Nazis? A rat chewing on a piece of electrical wire?

It doesn't matter. The Nazis used the threat to pass the Enabling Laws which gave them ultimate power.

9-11. Did Bush/Cheney let down the nation's guard intentionally for a terrorist strike? Doesn't matter.

They used 9-11 to impose the Patriot Act (which is quite similar to the Enabling Laws), fight wars, restrict our rights all to gain power. The only reason they were not entirely successful was that they employed idiots. The Germans, on the other hand, were pretty damn bright. Except for ignoring all the "Jew" knowledge stuff. BTW have you ever noticed that Republicans hate "Democratic ideas" in the same fashion.

I think Godwin's Law is misapplied. It calls out unreasoned discourse however if you provide reasons GL does not apply.

[dixiegrrrrl]

3. I agree with you about the inherent danger of ignoring recent history of fascism.

And of course there is no doubt that we have a steadily encroaching unconstitutional police state at home, while the current administration has actually declared it is ok to kill American citizens who are "suspected' terrorists,
and continues to "disappear" people into secret torture camps via rendition.
We have the middle east version of Czechoslovakia, then Poland, etc of widening imperialism,
we seem to be going thru yet another stage of demanding "purity" of race, ethnicity and religion.

And that behavior is happening to varying degrees in some other countries.

People who argue against the Nazi comparison seem to be practicing a form of denial, which also happened in Germany.
"They Thought They Were Free" is a good example of why citizens ignored the dangers they were being led into.

[PufPuf23]

5. They Thought They Were Free

is a great book and an easy and fast read of something unpleasant in human nature.

The USA has already passed into a form of fascism.

We are militarily belligerent; not just in the Middle East but in Africa, Latin America, and Far East.

Our media is airhead propaganda and disinformation is abundant.

Rule of law is tiered, perverted, or ignored.

New legislation is corporatist.

Privatization and outsourcing with weak accountability is a norm.

On many issues Americans agree but the Representatives and Executive and Court do not reflect the will of the People. Instead the media and pols stress the division and demonize across age, gender, faith, and so on.

I have admittedly struggled in recent time of Obama speaking kindly about GWB.

[B Calm]

4. The Christians hatred for Muslims is very comparable to the Nazi's

hatred of Jews.

[Joe Chi Minh]

6. So-called Godwin's Law, itself, is a travesty of misinterpretation. A Nazi accusation

is said to terminate all further discussion. However, the reason would be, not that the Accuser, ipso facto, loses the argument, but, instead, that the Accused is unable to rebut it.

Of course, there are distinctive features of fascism, never mind Nazism, but both are essentially primal expressions of the basest evil our natures are capable of, at the political level. And it is the essence of all fascism and its identification which is of primary significance, before even the building blocks.

[dixiegrrrrl]

7. Good point.

[Joe Chi Minh]

9. It should be called, Godwin's Cringe. As Churchill remarked, 'They're either

at your feet or at your throat.'

[Odin2005]

10. Most people who scream "Godwin!" Don't understand what the law is.

All it says that the longer an internet discussion goes on the more likely an inane Nazi comparison will show up.

[Taverner]

8. Glenn Beck = Ernst Röhm

[marmar]

11. But people continue to insist, "It can't happen here !!!", even though.....

....little by little, day by day, it's happening.