John Mayer. So.... do we like him?

[Smarmie Doofus]

I'm always a decade behind the pack... sometimes more... where pop music is concerned. Suffice it to say, I seem to be hooked on this guy. "Room for Squares" was playing on my CD player all summer; and...this is the scary part... playing in my head when I wasn't in the car.

That album was given to me. Yesterday I bought Continuum at Barnes and Noble. Probably the first new CD i've bought for myself in about eight years.

Here's the dilemma: I can't really feel comfortable with an artist if I don't like their politics. And I mean "politics" in the broadest sense.

True, I won't and can't support someone who supported the Iraq war . I just can't do it. Similarly , i can't support someone who is in any way homophobic. But if an artist is apolitical , that's a bit of a negative for me, not necessarily a complete turnoff. OTOH if they are "here and there" .... I don't really know how to feel about him/her.

Mayer is in this category; he seems to be mixed bag. Aware and reflective HERE ... Waitin on the World to Change..... but a seemingly self-absorbed light weight THERE .... dating People Mag celebrity airhead types and making some goofy public pronouncements of his own.

But the more I HEAR of him , the deeper I'm sinking. The music. It's quicksand.

Isn't it?

I need to figure out how to FEEL about HIM.

So... do we like him?

[madokie]

1. Seems to me like your problem lies in the WE part

what do you like not what do we like used to make up your mind would be my suggestion. :hi:

[Smarmie Doofus]

10. Ouch. The "we " part is irony. I'll ring a bell next time. nt

[WCGreen]

2. he is a really good guitar player...

and he was one of the folks Bruce Springsteen and the organizers of the 9/11 telethon to raise money for the victims picked to represent the pop world.

that's all I know about him.

Well, that and he mumbles while he sings...

[Phentex]

4. I think he mumbles and whines too. I am missing something....

He gets rave reviews. He's overexposed on the radio. And people claim he has talent. Really? I hear a song like "Half of my Heart" and change the station as fast as possible. I guess I don't "get" him.

[WCGreen]

6. He's a good guitar player...

That wouldn't get me to buy a CD.

[madrchsod]

12. try this.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RckfbOm84Qc&feature=related

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. Mmm. Yeah, he does the humanitarian type stuff.

Which is good. But not a risk.

Who on earth would be against the 9/11 telethon?

Good career move, actually.

Any edgier... i. e. risky.... political involvement that you know of?

( The mumbling masks some surprisingly intelligent, well crafted lyrics).

[WCGreen]

18. I would think a performer would want to have their lyrics understandable...

That's all I know of him..

[notesdev]

3. hey, if you're outsourcing thinking

then we REALLY like it when you cut a check for the balance of your bank account, DUmail me and I'll give you the address

trust me on this one this will make We very pleased!

[Smarmie Doofus]

11. Thanks. See reply #10. You can go now. nt

[madrchsod]

5. a very good guitar player....

but his commercial music sucks

[Codeine]

7. He's a terrible, empty, vapid musician.

Pre-chewed and pre-disgested product for people who need it to go down easy and smooth. He's the Ensure of music. "Adult Contemporary" is such a figgin' artistic wasteland.

[sufrommich]

9. Perfect description. God,I hate that guy and it's got

nothing to do with his politics ,just one look at that smug face has me reaching for the off button. He's the Pat Boone of the 21st century.

[Smarmie Doofus]

14. "Love Letters in the Sand" ? Come on , now.

He's not THAT bad.

Besides, Boone, if I'm not mistaken, was/is an active freeper.

[mjane]

43. I could not care less WhAT the guy's politics are

I can love a guy who is a total freeper... if his music is good.

Why should I care about a musician's politics?

I don't.

His music is insipid.

[Smarmie Doofus]

49. If Mel Gibson were a musician....

... and not an actor/director, and everything else about Mel Gibson were the same....you'd "love" him if his music was good?

Sorry. The neo-nazism, violence, misogyny, general craziness etc.... would make a difference to me. I wouldn't be able to feel the same way.

[mjane]

51. i'd love his MUSIC

i don't know these people (well, most of them) personally.

but if, for example, mel gibson was the guitarist from Rage Against the Machine, yes I would still love their music.

I think that's actually a good litmus test for an ideologue - somebody whose taste in music or art is changed by the politics of the musician or artist.

That's not me.

But to clarify, I don't LOVE the members of the Ramones. I've only met them once briefly. I love their music. That's what I mean when I say "I love the Ramones".

And yes, I know the singer died a while back.

[NashVegas]

53. Let's Hear Yours

[mjane]

55. hear what?

my music?

[Amerigo Vespucci]

15. You left out "Tom Petty should kick his ass for that version of "Free Fallin'"...

And in addition to the empty, vapid music, his attitude toward sex and sexuality seems to be that of a confused adolescent who's read too many of his dad's copies of "Hustler." He also likes to **** and tell...I'm sure every woman's greatest dream come true is that the dweeb she threw down with is going to go global with his scorecard on "how she was in the sack."

He's kind of like Sarah Palin...he craves attention, doesn't really care how he gets it, and gets it all the time...unfortunately.

[JerseygirlCT]

21. Isn't that just the worst thing?

Empty of any feeling or meaning? It's muzak, for Pete's sake!

[Iggo]

26. 'Adult Contemporary'?

Is that what they're calling it these days? It used to be called 'Easy Listening', completey suitable for elevators.

[rox63]

13. I like him and his music just fine, but

some folks here might consider me an old fart. I don't know anything about his politics. I do know he has a reputation for sleeping around with attractive blond celebrity gals, (Jennifer Aniston, Jessica Simpson, etc), kind of a love-em-and-leave-em guy.

[Journeyman]

16. If you like his art, what does it matter what his politics be? . . .

I think Celine was one of the better writers of the 20th century, but his politics and his hatred made him a disgusting human being. Can't see those negatives in his art, however, and that's how I know him and what I enjoy. Same with Ezra Pound. A masterful poet -- il miglior fabro in Eliot's phrase -- but an unrepentant fascist. Doesn't keep me from reading the Cantos or admiring the work he edited.

Judge artists by their art, not their politics, and see their politics through a prism devoid of their art. And most importantly, don't rely on popular public opinion to form your belief. You could find yourself hating an artist for all the wrong reasons. See what happened to the man in my avatar -- Dalton Trumbo -- and you'll forever recognize the fallacy of public opinion's tyranny.

[xchrom]

19. +1

[Smarmie Doofus]

30. If I like Buju Bantu's ( homophobic reggae) "art"...

... should I then not run our and buy his CD's... despite the fact that lyrically he's telling people they should KILL ME?

Point: this line of argument has obvious limitations.

Re. Trumbo: I know Trumbo ( I thought) pretty well; ( blacklisted in Hollywood in 50s for lefty affiliations). His art was pretty much aligned with his politics. Where's the conflict there?

[Journeyman]

32. If you "like" music that advocates your brutal murder, then buy it . . .

If you can't recognize the hatred within the art, and make a decision based on your own opinion of that art, then your need for others to think for you is more pressing than even your OP indicates.

Trumbo was blacklisted precisely because public opinion held against him. Didn't matter what his politics were -- fools who based their beliefs on the opinions of others contributed en masse to deny him his livelihood. If you cannot see the parallels implicit with your own desire to seek affirmation from others, there's little I can or will do for you.

[Smarmie Doofus]

34. I'm not going to buy it. That's the point.

Becoming enraged because your argument fails is .... well... less than adult.

"We resort to ridicule when reason is against us."


Moving along......

[mjane]

44. Thank you. EXACTLY

I see this all the time, these posts that one should like musician or actor X because their politics are this or that or... WHO CARES?

I care about the music or art they are making. I do not care what they think about LGBT/Abortion/the Environment/etc.

I know people who are totally right wing who LOVE Rage Against the Machine. I don't care what your politics are - that band rocked!

Ditto with the Clash.

[Swamp Rat]

17. Nothing against him personally because I don't know him, but a few DYI blues DVDs from Guitar Center

a $500.00 Stratocaster, a Fender Super Reverb combo amp, various effects pedals, and a bit of practice and voila!.. you have a new "John Mayer" (who is essentially a clone of an archetypal blues player based on the earlier "Eric Clapton" prototype). The current model should be recalled due to malfunction; It constantly makes noise through its mouth cavity. :D

[JerseygirlCT]

20. He's a talented man-whore

Personally, I don't like him. And that certainly has infected how I feel about his music.

[saltpoint]

22. If ya gotcha some pocket money for a CD, I would

recommend you pass on Mayer and choose Duke Ellington or Gordon Lightfoot instead.

[Smarmie Doofus]

27. One CD in 8 years isn't exactly an extravagance.

Ellington: Just not my taste.

Lightfoot: I listened to him in *High School*. Good stuff but ... come ON. There's other music out there.

I *think*.

[saltpoint]

58. You'd be hard-pressed to find most of us arguing that

Ellington and Lightfoot are "the only music out there."

Folks can amass an impressive music library if they put their minds & ears to it. They can explore what is out there, and there's plenty, including Ellington, American's most gifted compositionalist for ensemble, and Lightfoot, Canada's lyrical minstrel, of whom Bob Dylan said, "When you hear one of his songs, you want it to last forever."

Forever includes long after high school.

[pintobean]

23. If you let politics determine your taste in music,

you have no taste in music. Lose the guilt and free your mind.

[Iggo]

25. +1

:thumbsup:

[Iggo]

24. His music sucks.

That's all I know about him.

[SidDithers]

28. He once did a pretty funny bit with Dave Chappelle...

about white people dancing to rock music.

http://vimeo.com/8213736

Sid

[marmar]

29. Lightweight and easily forgettable music.......

..... and someone who tries too hard (and fails) to make himself interesting as a person.

[countingbluecars]

31. I have a hard time getting past

things he said in a Playboy interview.

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebritynews/news/roger-ebert-calls-out-john-mayer-for-racist-remarks-2010132

[Smarmie Doofus]

37. That link opens a trap door......

.....into all variety of pop culture horrors. Frankly , I find it hard to separate the real from the unreal there.


At minimum it underscores the misgivings I have about the PERSON. As distinct from the musical entity... which I find myself liking.


OK... let's close 'er on up.

[mjane]

45. I don't have to "get past" what a musician said in an interview

because it's not relevant to their music.

I care about their music.

The KKK Took my Baby Away is actually written to make fun of one of their own members (the Ramones) who is an avid rightwinger, for instance. Do I choose to like a Ramone more or less depending on their POLITICS?

Fuck no

[mitchum]

33. I don't even like the real Eric Clapton

[tkmorris]

35. Over-rated hack

Clapton that is, not you :)

[mitchum]

38. That man has been coasting on hype for 45 years...

I bet Giorgio Gomelsky's hand was really sore after scrawling "Clapton Is God" all over London

[Forkboy]

36. Generic Clapton.

;)

[VioletLake]

39. I like some of his music:

The Heart of Life, John Mayer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2mJpQSkae8

But I'm not fond of his dick:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/12/john-mayers-penis-speaks_n_459842.html

[bigwillq]

40. I don't like him, personally

made a few songs that I thought were decent, but don't like his public image. Seems like someone I wouldn't want to hang out with.

[Warren DeMontague]

41. He's like a lukewarm, watered down version of Dave Matthews.

which is kind of redundant.

[mjane]

42. Waiting on the World to Change is possibly the most insipid song ever written

"aware and reflective?"

have you actually read and thought about the lyrics.

It's the worst kind of insipid.

He is a pretty good guitar player, but that song is awful.

[Smarmie Doofus]

47. "Insipid" in what sense?

I'd criticize it for ambiguity. I don't get the "insipid" bit. ( And "most insipid ever written"? Perhaps we exaggerate.)

Taken literally it counsels political non-involvement. Yet it levels overt social/political criticism otherwise taboo in pop culture. (" When they own the information they can bend it all they want." That's about as taboo as one can get and still get airtime in M$M.)

Also, the power of the song... to the degree that it has any... may be due more to its iconic than to its literal properties. In other words, I don't think most people get past the title. In fact, there's a video.. presumably in the Political Videos Forum on DU.... that expropriates "Waiting" as its soundtrack. Subject: marriage equality activism. The video does NOT counsel passivity.




"Waiting On The World To Change"

Me and all my friends
We're all misunderstood
They say we stand for nothing and
There's no way we ever could

Now we see everything that's going wrong
With the world and those who lead it
We just feel like we don't have the means
To rise above and beat it

So we keep waiting
Waiting on the world to change
We keep on waiting
Waiting on the world to change

It's hard to beat the system
When we're standing at a distance
So we keep waiting
Waiting on the world to change

Now if we had the power
To bring our neighbors home from war
They would have never missed a Christmas
No more ribbons on their door
And when you trust your television
What you get is what you got
Cause when they own the information, oh
They can bend it all they want

That's why we're waiting
Waiting on the world to change
We keep on waiting
Waiting on the world to change

It's not that we don't care,
We just know that the fight ain't fair
So we keep on waiting
Waiting on the world to change

And we're still waiting
Waiting on the world to change
We keep on waiting waiting on the world to change
One day our generation
Is gonna rule the population
So we keep on waiting
Waiting on the world to change

We keep on waiting
Waiting on the world to change

[mjane]

52. it's insipid to me

Because it feints towards profundity, when in fact it is anything but. It also has an incredibly defeatist, "I'm a victim" message of disempowerment that I find nauseating.

Not to mention that musically, it's redundant.

I think that's the reason is that on the surface it SEEMS like it is saying something, when in fact it is saying nothing.

It irks me. I'll admit it.

I play guitar myself. The guy is a pretty good guitarist. I will give him that.

[rucky]

46. He's okay, but his dick is a racist. n/t

[saltpoint]

59. LOL.

[Texasgal]

48. I find him to be a sexist pig.

His music? Meh.

[Iggo]

50. I bring this up every time this subject comes up.

I've been listening to vintage Ted Nugent since high school in the 70's (wasn't vintage back then...heh.) Loved it then. Love it now. His politics don't play into it. I try to send as little money his way as possible, but I did download Weekend Warriors because I couldn't find anyone with a CD I could borrow.

The point is, as ugly as his politics are (and they don't come much uglier), that's still the soundtrack of my youth and I love it anyway.

[NashVegas]

54. If You Need Other People To Tell You What To Like

Maybe you should just watch TV.

[zanana1]

56. Some people can separate the artist from his/her politics...

And some can't. I'm in the "can't" category. I also love his music and I was surprised to find that someone who can write such sensitive and meaningful songs can be such a jackass. I was very disappointed and, though I still listen to the CD's I have, I won't buy another. But NEVER let other people tell you what kind of music you should like. It's a very personal thing.

[Smarmie Doofus]

57. Thanks. That's *exactly* how I feel about him.

In fact , notwithstanding the prevailing opinion here... he's a damned good songwriter.

>>>>I also love his music and I was surprised to find that someone who can write such sensitive and meaningful songs can be such a jackass.>>>>

So then he IS a jackass.

I was hoping you or someone else would have more good stuff to say about him. I was hoping the pop culture/MSM/gossipy Mayer was a media invention.... and that the damned good songwriter was the "real" Mayer.

Phooey.

So now I have to see if i can reconcile the two.

[totodeinhere]

60. I don't care for his music. His voice has kind of a rough gravely tone that irritates me.

I prefer a singer with a smoother voice. However, I don't let politics get in the way of my music. I don't care what his politics are or whether or not he makes "goofy" pronouncements.

[JI7]

61. i think his music is horrible and painful to listen to

even if he was great on politics his music would suck to me.

[Dorian Gray]

62. No idea

about his politics, but he seems to be a douchebag in his personal life. But why do you care whether "we" like him.

By the way, I think his music sucks.

[kgnu_fan]

63. Music is vibration and you resonate with him for whatever reason

You may be a mixed bag kind of person, too, like everyone else... and you may not be as deep as you thought you were. Or you may hear the depth of John Mayor while he himself may not be aware of it... You may be waiting on the World to Change..... but a seemingly self-absorbed light weight .... wishing to date People Mag celebrity airhead types and making some goofy public pronouncements of your own here and there. It's OK....

You can explore other music that might take you out of the limited territory you know....or just stay where you are ---- music will guide you.... lalala.....