Will not prosecuting Bush/Cheney war crimes come back to haunt us?

[Cyrano]

Let’s suppose that the Republicans win back the congress this year, and the presidency in 2012. These suppositions are real possibilities. And if they come about, we will all have good cause to live in fear.

No rational person could possibly doubt that Bush and Cheney are guilty of war crimes, (not to mention the crimes committed under the United States Constitution). That they are walking around free makes it possible for a future Republican government to do anything at all without fear of retribution. Torture, executive rendition, and every other vile, illegal, immoral and sadistic act would be “on the table.”

I believe Obama is a decent man, but I cannot comprehend why he chose to let some of the worst crimes committed by any administration in American history go unchallenged, uninvestigated, and unprosecuted. And as a result, the possibilities looking forward scare the hell out of me.

Consider a Speaker of the House named John Boehner, a Senate leader named Mitch McConnell, and a Republican President named (fill in the blank). Do you really believe they (and their corporate puppet masters) would be inhibited by any rules, laws, or sense of decency or morality?

The other night, I watched the film “Cabaret.” If you haven’t seen it, it takes place in Germany during the 1930s when Germany was proceeding down the path toward a grotesque, unimaginable hell. History never repeats itself in exactly the same way, but it’s seems to me we are on a similar path. And we know how that turned out.

So here's my question. What do we do about it?

[msongs]

1. not wise to charge someone else with something you are doing yourself IMO nt

[Capitalocracy]

17. There's the rub

What do we do when about 100% of our government is a prosecutable accomplice?

[DCKit]

2. Lest we forget the bankers, mortgage scammers and Wall St. pirates....

Not to mention a few (dozen) former members of Congress who will never be investigated because they get a free pass for "retiring" to spend more time with their families.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

7. I'm not going to mention Hastert at all...

oops. Too late.

[frylock]

3. did not prosecuting iran/contra war crimes come back to haunt us?

[Cyrano]

5. Cheney was a congressman during Iran/Contra

Here's an article from the Crooks and Liars blog.

http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/20-years-after-iran-contra-cheney-defends

The lesson Cheney took from history is that he could do whatever he wanted to do and get away with it.

[Capitalocracy]

22. Not just Iran/Contra

South America and the Middle East, along with much of the rest of the world, have been subject to U.S.-backed military dictatorships for decades under the Kissinger model. And once again, they've proven that they can get away with it. We won't start to care until fascism comes home, but then it will be too late.

[Rex]

4. YES!

Once a standard is set by these slimy scumbags, it cannot be undone without proper vetting. We refuse to do the right thing in this country and will pay for it in the longrun (we already are in some ways).

[hfojvt]

6. What an imagination you have.

Here is what I have noticed over the last 8 years. Bush became President. Many were obviously not happy about that, especially the large humber of people who voted for Gore. However, there seemed to be another group of professional pot-stirrers who started declaring that the sky was falling, that America was becoming a fascist dictatorship - if it wasn't one already. Everything was taken to the superlative - it was the worst of all possible times and Bush was the worst possible President. Grnted there was a huge amount of truth, because Bush was really bad and so were his policies, but the criticism ventured a) into unreality and b)into dire predictions about the future. However, much of this was done not by professionals, but by the people stirred up by the professionals.

Many were sure, for example, that Bush was not really going to leave office if Obama won. Many times it was predicted that we were about to invade Iran. That a certain executive order meant that war protestors could be arrested, and would be arrested. The Iraq war was not just a really bad idea and a waste of resources and destructive of human life - no, their criticism went beyond that. It was ILLEGAL! It was a GENOCIDE! It was also declared that the Bush tax cuts only benefitted the wealthy. Just like it was also declared that everybody was broke, or about to become so. And so on.

Now here you are again, making dire predictions about the future. Apparently by 2013, or 2014 by the latest, we will all have been rounded up into camps, all because Bush/Cheney have not been prosecuted.

Well, if it motivates you to defeat Republicans in 2010, then it is not a bad thing. Otherwise it seems kinda silly.

[WinkyDink]

11. You give yourself away with the disingenuous locution "Bush became President."

And FYI: Invading a non-provoking sovereign state is...wait for it...ILLEGAL. THE VERY DEFINITION OF "WAR CRIME."

PIPE, SMOKE IT.

[Capitalocracy]

19. All of the things you listed as hyperbole are 100% true

The only inaccurate prediction there (which I did not share) was that Bush wouldn't let Obama become president. And maybe people were afraid of it because of just how far Bush's fascist regime went, and the fact that he wasn't elected to begin with. Our democracy was broken, we didn't know what to expect.

War protestors do get arrested. Environmentalists do get charged with terrorism for acts of minor vandalism. People are imprisoned, tortured, and murdered with no due process. The Iraq war was clearly illegal, and it was clearly genocidal. The use of depleted uranium will leave entire populations with the fear of having deformed babies if they dare try to procreate, and of dying young of cancer. The Bush tax cuts did only benefit the wealthy. Everybody was about to become broke, look around you, they're all broke! You don't know that everyone's broke?

And I don't know about being "rounded up into camps", but will the next Republican fascist president authorize torture? Obviously. Why wouldn't they? After all, who's going to stop them?

[rhett o rick]

27. Very strange outlook. Bush/Cheney did in fact move our country very close to fascism.

The current administration did little to undo the fascist policies implemented by Bush/Cheney. That's what is really scary. So you tell us what's in our future.

[Poll_Blind]

8. Haunt is a pale word. Hang is a more realistic one. n/t

PB

[libtodeath]

9. We will pay for generations

If raygun had been impeached for his crimes and daddy along with him we would not have seen 9/11 or the murderous rampage we went on after.

[WinkyDink]

10. They aren't already?

[Capitalocracy]

20. Emphatic +1

[lunatica]

12. the Bush era will drive history for generations to come

Haunt is too mild a word. It will come back to hurt us to the core. In the future we may be attacked for reasons directly birthed by the Bush wars and his torture policy. We will pay the price. There's a whole generation of children who are growing up hating us for ruining their lives and their country.

Of course, when the time comes Americans will conveniently ignore the cause of any violence against them, and consider itself assaulted by bad people who hate us for our freedoms. wash, spin, repeat.

[felix_numinous]

13. There has to be enough pressure outside the system

to force action within the system for justice. It would take a multitude of people showing solidarity and resolve to go up against what is corrupting the government. I strongly believe that President Obama cannot act alone against the *MIC, but must have support on all sides. What he would need is action from the citizenry first, and perhaps international support, and allies within the government. But look what they have to go up against--how could they do anything out in the open without their opposition outflanking and remaining steps ahead of them the whole time? And who knows what steps have been attempted without anyone knowing about it?

Somehow enough people have to make up their mind that in order to save this country from this domestic threat, we all have to put our petty differences aside, and vow not to allow propaganda to affect us in any way. I would also add a vow of non violence, or we would lose all of our remaining civil rights. Americans for justice would need the support of as many allies within the military, government and perhaps overseas to show solidarity on this issue. If everyone showed themselves all at once, I believe the numbers would be staggering--it just has to be organized really really well.

The magic trick would be to somehow turn all of the fear and division into solidarity, and I am not sure how that would be done.

[Bitwit1234]

14. And some one posted a message by one Steve Baldwin

who says that this country is in danger, because we have a Democratic, president, and congress. Hells Bells what did we have for 8 years under the republicans. In fact we had a republican controlled congress for 12 years. Look what it got us.

[Swamp Rat]

15. It has already damaged us, and will continue to do so for many generations

The only way to prevent this is to prosecute the entire Bushler Administration.

Very few running our government has the guts to do this.

[Recursion]

16. Not as badly as trying them would have

They would have taken down most of the D leadership with them. Not that that would necessarily be a bad thing, come to think of it...

[Capitalocracy]

18. I'd prefer rule of law

Take them all out, that's what elections are for. They can be replaced, the rule of law cannot.

[rhett o rick]

29. The problem is the centrists love them and wont vote them out. nm

[jmondine]

21. Hey Admins, it's apparently taking 3 1/2 years for posts to appear on the site

[Cyrano]

25. I don't think there's any statute of limitations on war crimes

[Kltpzyxm]

23. A crime unpunished

is a crime condoned.

I weep for what the world thinks of our banana republic.

:cry:

[Capitalocracy]

24. OF COOOURSE!

It may not happen in 2012, after all, Obama could actually win that election. But do you think Palin or whatever ridiculous Republican fascist they manage to put in power will hesitate to authorize torture? Absolutely not. Maybe it won't be 2016 either, but we can't hold the presidency forever, Bush has shown us that given half a chance, they'll take power even if they don't have the votes. If their own wealth, freedom, and speaking tours aren't threatened, they'll do whatever the hell they want. We have to prosecute war crimes and put the fear of god in these people.

Impunity always comes back to bite you in the ass. War crimes must be prosecuted. And as for the political price of doing so, people like honesty, transparency, and strong leadership, so I think despite some people's whining it would've been the right thing to do politically. After all, who would keep voting for the party whose leadership was convicted of the most horrible crimes against humanity and threatening the very concept of a democratic republic with the rule of law except the small fascist fringe that likes that sort of thing?

[Orsino]

26. Too late.

The consequences of corruption, fascism and imperialism are hurting us now. We are already the nation that won't prosecute war crimes, and it colors everything we do.

The haunting has been going on for many, many years--but it's mainly the victims who sleep lightly.

[rhett o rick]

28. There is nothing we can do. We elect representatives to represent us and they fail. What can we do?