I'm rewatching the excellent Suffrage movie, "Iron Jawed Angels"

[LostinVA]

There is a scene where Alice Paul, Lucy Burns, and the other "Iron Jawed Angels" are planning their iconic Suffrage parade in DC, the day before Woodrow Wilson's Inauguration. Into the room steps Ida B. Wells (played by Adilah Barnes), a well-known African American feminist and anti-lynching activist. She is told by the Alice Paul that, to appease the Suffrage groups from the South, African American women will have to march at the very back of the parade. Wells, refusing to be treated as a second-class citizen, demands the right right to march with her Caucasian sisters

She calls Paul and the other Suffragettes on their self-proclaimed "political pragmatism" with this statement: "Dress up prejudice and call it politics."

It is sad that this statement is still very apt almost 100 years later.

[bobbolink]

1. "Dress up prejudice and call it politics."

:applause:

Some things just don't change....

The attitudes about homeless people are PREJUDICE, yet many here can never see that. :grr:

Dress up prejudice and call it pragmatism.

[murielm99]

7. The same goes for our attitudes about gays.

Put gay people at the front of the parade, too.

[LostinVA]

9. No argument from me on that!

:pals:

[stray cat]

42. So what are you doing to help the homeless?

its not enough just to act self-righteous - you have greater resources than a homeless individual so you can help

[LostinVA]

45. lol

[mntleo2]

57. Uhhhhh, you do not KNOW this poster

...who has information about homelessness you would *never* know.

Bobbie is a long time, respected and very visible DU member who knows of what she speaks. Perhaps you should read some of her posts and you would be enlightened. If ANYONE speaks and works towards eradicating homelessness, it is Bobbie.

I am sorry to hear this ignorance from a "progressive" who obviously, in spite of their 1000 posts do not know who Bobbie is and what she has done. So where do you spend your time for all these posts? In the Lobby where people discuss their newest zit? Perhaps you need to show your own work on homelessness and poverty yourself and you would get some respect. But this poverty work is not for the weak or faint of heart. It is done by people with COURAGE, and Bobbie has more courage in her little finger than most of us have in our entire bodies. Those of us who were activists on DU WAY before the middle class fell below the poverty line while wildly applauding the tattering of the safety net, know of what we speak and Bobbie is a long time voice on the front lines.

Most of all you have to LIVE poverty and homelessness before you can speak one word about who and who is not working for eliminating it. Believe me, while there are a lot of do-gooders with well meaning intentions, they do NOT have a clue.

Bobbie does have a clue.

My 2 cents
Cat in Seattle <=== coming to the defense of a friend who does not deserve to be told she should be doing more when she has done far more than most.

[laughingliberal]

58. Just love people who spout off about things they know nothing about.

"Its not enough just to act self-righteous - you have greater resources than a homeless individual so you can help"

Huh, more resources than a homeless person? Bobolink is a homeless person. As I have been in communication with a member of the clergy in her area regarding her situation, I have first hand knowledge and confirmation of that fact.

In spite of that hardship, she has managed, with very limited resources, to put countless hours into assembling a presentation on the issues of homeless people. Again, I have 1st hand knowledge of this as I have been assisting in my limited way in the editing of said program. The power point presentation will be presented to groups interested in and involved in advocacy for homeless people in an effort to change the current ineffective policies and move towards solutions which solve the problem rather than (at best) bandaiding it.

BTW, what have YOU, with your obvious access to better resources, done for anyone, lately.

I mean besides showing up with a typically snarky, hit and run post?

[LostinVA]

74. That's why I loled

:wtf:

[asdjrocky]

60. Really.

You've been here long enough not to even have to ask the question. Are you being intentionally dim?

[Jax]

62. Disgusting but not surprising.

You don't help Obama on these forums at all.

AT ALL.

Disgusting post but typical.

[bobbolink]

75. Thanx, Jax! I really appreciate it. The only good that comes from ignorance like this is that it

shows what we homeless people deal with all the time.

And the silence when they have been proved wrong.

Sad. Very, very sad.

[defendandprotect]

64. You're challenging a homeless person on the necessity to help the homeless???

A large foot in mouth there --

ALL of us should be doing more on every issue -- but most especially re poverty and

homelessness. It's the right wing way to attack those with the least resources among us.

Let me suggest that you ask yourself your own question . . .

"So what are you doing to help the homeless?"


And I'd also suggest that you apologize to Bobbie --

[OneGrassRoot]

68. Wow, all I can do is second every single response here....

"...you have greater resources than a homeless individual so you can help."

In addition to what others have said, I want to suggest that it's a good rule of thumb to never assume anything about others via these intertubes.

Actually, that's a good rule of thumb in general, don't you think? Right-wingers make assumptions and use those as an excuse not to care about others and turn away.

To assume anyone has resources of any kind based on involvement on a message board is making a HUGE assumption.

These assumptions can be very damaging and used to keep the most vulnerable invisible. That's why many are responding so strongly to your statement.

[Odin2005]

69. Uh, she IS homeless.

:eyes:

[maryf]

70. Bobbolink does the most important thing anyone could do for the homeless...

She educates others of their existence and the egregious reasons for the existence of homelessness (#1, not enough affordable housing); she dedicates her life to this cause, she never puts the banner down... She Educates, Agitates, ...all she asks is for folks to help her Organize, her resources are scant but she does as much with them as most do with 100 times that. You ought to apologize, really, or maybe offer to help her organize, that would be better.

[bobbolink]

71. "that would be better" given the message of superiority dumped on me, I'm assuming

this person is capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time AND organizing and apologizing.

However, apologies never seem to come from those with the biggest gaffe-making machines.

[devilgrrl]

72. So typical...

:eyes:

[Bluebear]

78. Another hit and run attack by you. Typical and pathetic.

[awoke_in_2003]

80. So you are calling her a liar? nt

[another saigon]

2. great movie

and yes, it is sad that not a whole lot has changed. "political pragmatism" is the death of democracy.

[LostinVA]

3. I think this is one of the best "issue" movies ever made

Just excellent, everything about it.

[another saigon]

52. I was never a big Hillary Swank fan

until this film. She is freakin phenomenal!

I have to watch it again.

:)

[bdamomma]

4. that was a great movie and true too

women were fighting tooth and nail to get the vote, that is why no one should poo poo on voting.

[Political_Junkie]

5. Those were my thoughts too

while watching that scene. Very powerful movie.

[LostinVA]

36. I am so glad it was recognized at teh Emmys and Sundance

[Mimosa]

6. LostinVa, what channel can I see it on?

Is it shown on a cable channel or available 'On Demand'?

[LostinVA]

10. I actually own it

But, it's an HBO movie, and they may have it "On Demand." It won a bunch of Emmys and a Sundance award, so your library probably has it. I know Netflix does.

[Mimosa]

Thanks.

Have you ever heard of the 1970s Masterpiece Theatre/BBC series "Shoulder to Shoulder"? It was very influential and inspirational during the mid 1970s. It showed after 'I, Claudius' concluded, iirc.

It rates very highly at IMDB> :)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071047/

[LostinVA]

16. No -- I haven't!

I wonder if Netflix has it?

Alice Paul, Lucy Burns, and many of the "Wilson" Suffragettes got their start in working with the British Suffragettes. Which you probably know already.

[Starry Messenger]

13. Mimosa, if you don't mind watching on your computer

Youtube has the whole movie there, someone uploaded it in sections:

Part One starts here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96JifSnHhaY

[LostinVA]

14. Ah -- thanks for letting her know that!

[Starry Messenger]

23. No probs, I'm all about free stuff.

:)

[Mimosa]

15. I'll watch it soon.

Thanks.:D

We vampires have to watch the True Blood finale tonight.;)

[WolverineDG]

33. I got it from Netflix nt

[Starry Messenger]

8. I'm glad they put that scene in there.

Such an excellent movie.

[LostinVA]

12. And, the :follow up" scene

When, during the parade, Ida B. Wells steps off the sidewalk into the parade, refusing to march at the back, and another woman (a matronly White woman), impulsively steps out with her.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DURHAM D]

19. I hope you have not seen the movie because -

if you have I would say you are a complete asshole.

If you have not seen it then you are a just a typical juvenile male and a sexist jerk.



Oh second thought - you are the first either way.

[demmiblue]

25. This is the first time I have ever seen a response on a deleted subthread.

Congrats!

:toast:

[DURHAM D]

35. Must be about the post timing.

I love the movie. I have had it stored on my Tivo (HBO broadcast) for years and require all house guests to watch it - young, old, male, female, gay, straight, whatever. Everyone is moved by it.

JFTR - I am a second waver and have never waivered. Also a lesbian. That's why I jumped on that fool.

[mrs_p]

17. we watched this movie several weeks ago

and had the same conversation -- the meme to "wait, wait, wait" sounded all to familiar to how our LGTB brothers and sisters are being treated today.

edit - PS, i would recommend to every tweenie-teenage girl (and woman) to watch this movie, to know who and what was fought for them...

[LostinVA]

21. The scene where they are standing at the White House is on now

Like Dan Choi and the other LGBT servicemen and servicewomen who stood with him.

[demmiblue]

18. Oh, well...

I tried!

[LostinVA]

24. self delete

Multitasking!!!

[demmiblue]

27. Me?

[Starry Messenger]

29. I think you meant the other poster LIV

demmiblue called out the sexist jackass.

[demmiblue]

30. Thank you.

:hug:

[LostinVA]

31. Ack -- sorry!!!

I am watching the movie, typing, and reading respones!!!!!

[demmiblue]

32. No worries, Lost.

:hug:

[Forkboy]

20. "Political pragmatism" is used by those too afraid to stand up for what's right.

The useless shites should just step aside.

[LostinVA]

26. That's basically what Ida B. Wells' character said in the rest of the scene

[RainDog]

22. just watched that recently too

I love to see these historical figures portrayed as flesh and blood. I esp. love Ida B. Wells. What a brave woman.

don't forget the part where, when Wells joins the parade, these women were attacked by onlookers for demanding the right to vote.

there's another part of the story, tho - the fight between two factions of suffragettes. The fight was won state by state, but the national/federal-level attention from Alice Paul - the influence/impact her faction's presence made in DC, no doubt created the political climate in which those states were pressured to stop denying civil rights to women.

And those women were willing to go to prison for their beliefs.

[LostinVA]

28. And be, literally, tortured

Which really helped to turn popular opinion to their side, especially since they were "nice girls" being brutalized.

[RainDog]

34. yes. these women were part of the power structure of the U.S.

- like women who were married to, say, plantation owners in the south. those southern women, before the civil war, enjoyed the privilege of slavery - even while they were denied civil rights themselves.

those women who aligned themselves with the slave owners - often their fathers or husbands - were the equivalent of a log cabin republican, to me - they were able to enjoy the financial reward of alignment with those who exploited the misery of others because they had enough access to financial resources to allow them to betray others in order to maintain their own gain.

the same thing occurred during the time women demanded civil rights - most women who were rich and married didn't care enough about this issue because to do so would put them as some discomfort - would threaten their financial superiority.

those women who were wealthy who endured torture to secure civil rights for all women were personally very brave.

now, we see people in positions of power who don't want to put themselves out because they can continue their lives, even while others are denied the civil rights hetero couples take for granted.

[Warpy]

37. My grandmother and great grandmother were ardent suffragettes

and one of my mother's early childhood memories was being in a suffragette parade with both of them in NYC.

Never forget. They didn't give us anything. We had to fight like hell and grab it for ourselves.

[RainDog]

41. wow. you must be so proud!

Mine lived in the south. the women in my family were slaves to a religion that taught them they were second-class citizens.

[Warpy]

43. Oh, they bought all that Irish Catholic garbage, every word of it.

which is at least as bad as the Southern Baptist garbage. They just knew the lives of women and children would continue to suck unless women got the vote.

[RainDog]

46. in my state, married women were still not allowed to hold property in their names in the 1960s

in the United States, imo, religion has been one of the key causes of repression of civil rights and the recognition of others' humanity.

kind of ironic.

[DURHAM D]

47. What state do you live in?

Women could not get a mortgage until the late 60s but they could hold title.

I just recently came across an old title for the family farm. The title was changed to my great grandmother in l881 when my great grandfather died.

[RainDog]

48. don't live there now

I'm originally from Tennessee.

[RainDog]

49. when your grandfather died, your grandmother was no longer married n/t

[LostinVA]

53. Right

[DURHAM D]

54. I will need to do a little research but -

I think by the mid-1800s married women were allowed to own real property in all states.

Including married women.

[RainDog]

56. I could very well have the two confused

mortgage v ownership (since most people require mortgages to eventually own property.)

[defendandprotect]

65. Yes, I'm also trying to remember .... I think the right to "inherit" was returned ....

but I don't think that even in NYC, a female alone could negotiate a mortage.

And, I think it was in late 1960's that women were given joint-ownership of all

property -- houses -- with husband.

How quickly we forget!!

[LostinVA]

38. "Courage in women is often mistaken for insanity"

[Odin2005]

51. They were "diagnosed" with "Hysteria" and put into institutions.

The later ones were sometimes victims of lobotomies.

[defendandprotect]

66. Well, whatever slander the elites decide to teach re their enemies ....

is often believed!!

[LostinVA]

39. lol I would love to hear from the heroes unreccing this thread

[defendandprotect]

67. Too often issues re social consciousness, human rights -- equality ....

are what the "UN's" most want to squelsh -- !!

[yowzayowzayowza]

40. Welp, LostinVA, we agree on sumthin.

Tiz an excellent movie.

:thumbsup:

[LostinVA]

44. lol

[Odin2005]

50. +1,000,000,000,000,000,000

:applause:

[BrklynLiberal]

55. A movie that truly deserves the adjective "AWESOME!"

[mntleo2]

59. The Wobblies wer e as racist and sexist ...

...they wanted worker's rights for THE WHITE MAN ...and "forgot" women and minorities in the beginning of their movement. While the call for worker's rights was a beginning, it was only a beginning. It took YEARS, over 1/2 a century, to include the rest who deserved a place at the table even more than the original voices because if the white man was suffering, women and minorities were beyond suffering, they were DIEING and had *no* rights at all, not even a vote.

It is sad because the fight for rights needs to include EVERYONE, not just some little niche of people who do not seem to recognize they are not the only ones.

My 2 cents

Cat in Seattle

[bobbolink]

63. VERY good point, Cat! We always have to POUND on the door to get in!

You have a very good sense of the history of all of this!

:applause:

[LostinVA]

73. Very good point n/t

[asdjrocky]

61. One of my all time favorite movies.

Sent it to my daughter when she was 15. She's now 20, and in her third year in college.

[newspeak]

76. seen the movie twice--love it!!!

Ida B. Wells was one brave woman. She wrote articles about lynchings--her building was burned down twice. she was a friend to Eleanor Roosevelt. Alice Paul and family were quakers. Of course, the establishment would rather recognize Susan B. Anthony (establishment) than activists like Paul and Wells.

[LostinVA]

77. Exactly -- Wells and Paul were "rabble rousers"

[Crystal Clarity]

79. Just added it to my Netflix Queue

Sounds like my kind of movie. Thanks LostinVa! :hi: