On sin taxes, smoking, HFCS and other crap we do

[nadinbrzezinski]

OF course we have our left wing libertarians who oppose any of this as I don't know opposing their way of life... and not treating them as well, adults. The worst is the accusation of every living in a nanny state. Which truth be told... has been going on since oh 10,000 BCE or so, and the rise of the first organized towns. All societies HAVE RULES and some form of tax... and some people in Ancient Egypt, I am sure, did not like the annual corvee labor they were forced to give to the state... just call it a sneaky.

Now some of the tax structure is a balance between ills in society and good in society... and yes LUXURY GOODS taxes are per force regressive. That is the way it is.

In my view what we, as a society, should force the Marlboro man is to stop processing that tobacco into what can best be described as CRACK tobacco, which makes it far more addictive. We also should regulate (as in prohibit) the addition of nicotine into cigs to once again make them that much more addictive. In other words, going "back to nature" would allow the smoker to quit more easily if they wanted to... and the end product would be far less harmful, as it would not have as much crap as it does. (Hell, I at times wonder if tobacco al natural could have some helpful effects, see Coca Leaves and yes Weed) But the product as it is sold today is meant to BE VERY ADDICTIVE... and yes should be taxed.

The same logic can and is used for things like High Fructose Corn Syrup as well as trasnfats. Yes, they are cheap, yes they are abundant, and yes they are part of a problem that is systemic. And as much as our resident libertarians don't like it... taxes are part of the cost for living in a society. Many a times those are imposed as well on things that the society, or the values of some in society (See Egypt and that Corve Labor) think should be paid to live in such a society. If you do not like taxes... there are a few places where those do not exist. Neither do a lot of social services...

But the short of it is that all societies that are functional do have different ways of getting collective resources for the common good. And I am sure a few in the past considered the king's orders for taxes just as cruel and onerous... but all societies have had this.

Do I prefer a 100% progressive tax system? Ideally yes. Do I believe sin taxes serve a purpose? Yes... and by the way do I think prohibition is the solution? Absolutely not... but if you are an adult and chose to imbide, well we as a society have a right to exact a price from you... and this is not about pleasure... or even what you think is freedom as understood by the Founders. They got it. They knew that societies do need some taxation. Oh yeah and that little tax on tea and stamp act... that's when a government goes a little too far away... but they were not alone... or on their own. If they had... Concord would have never happened. They were one more thing to add to a list of grievances... I guess some will compare taxes on certain products to the Stamp Act... so be it.

And yes, this is the theme of the day, it seems.

Oh and I know this might generate some fun. So for those of you who want some... there is popcorn on the table... I know that it could potentially become very entertaining. Mostly, they almost always do.

[denem]

1. Better fix HCFS to HFCS.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Thanks

I just went for the full term

:hi:

[denem]

3. Your welcome, but HCFS is still in the title.

[Warpy]

4. I want one new tax and one new tax only

and that is a tax on every stock trade. It would generate a hell of a lot of revenue and as a side benefit, take much of the profit out of high frequency trading, the computer generated screwy system that was responsible for a 1000 point drop in half an hour a couple of months ago.

We wouldn't need any new sin taxes, which are high enough already.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. FYI we used to have one that kind of did that

And I'd use the European model... no, not the British model, they are far more of a joke than we are.

You get a buck a trade... period... They don't do it by percentage of trade, which would make sense. except for the modern day volume... so a buck, or even five bucks a trade... or a unit of stock or whatever you are doing.

As to sin taxes I'd add taxes on high corn ... but that is just me.

[varelse]

5. There is only one sin I want to see taxed and that is

greed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. As much as I agree with you

that is a social value... and it will take a major stressor to change that value. Kids are taught from early on that greed is good. Of course there are a few other things that are part of the national DNA that if I could change by taxing I would... like the ME attitude, and by your bootstraps...

Doing a history of labor it is amazing to see WHY morality placed on work translated into cheap labor.

[denem]

7. HFCS is supported by subsidies on corn and tariffs on sugar.

Outside North America it doesn't exist. You buy real Coke with sugar in the EU (and Mexico too)

That's not your point I know, but HFCS is already an USA tax creation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Of course it is

but to make it less palatable it should be taxed at point of origin. Perhaps making it more expensive than sugar.

By the way, so you know, they are experimenting with putting the crap in Mexican sodas. I hope it fails... utterly fails.

[depakid]

14. +1

[Hello_Kitty]

10. The problem is that HFCS saturates cheap food. Which poor people need to survive.

As regressive as I think sin taxes on cigarettes and booze are, I get that you don't need those things to live. Taxing junk food to disincentivize its consumption is a really bass ackwards way to deal with the problem and is REALLY shitty to do to people who are barely keeping their heads above water as it is.

Attack corn subsidies and food deserts, not poor people.

[HillbillyBob]

11. We need to eliminate hfcs. I was borderline diabetic

I wont blame it all oh hfcs, but it was in everything I ate before i started looking at labels. Its bad enough with the fact tha parts of the sugars just bypass your liver which regulates the blood sugar along with pancreas that releases insulin. It seems to be a large culprit in insulin problems.
I have almost entirely eliminated it from my diet ..I lost 90 pounds in 3 yrs. I did clean up my diet in other ways too and did exercise. That was 15 yrs ago.
today my blood sugar is normal ..My father and grand father ate a lot of pancakes and 'king' brand cornsyrup for years and years, both are diabetic my grandfather cleaned up his diet and hes now borderline and my dad did too.
Im not laying all the blame, but the stuff is in everything from mayo to crackers to cookies to juice...Now when I get a soda I get a weird sugar rush followed by a severe crash that I don't get with more natural sugars.

Over all I agree with you. have to run..

[xchrom]

12. i agree with you on this. nt

[SpiralHawk]

13. Tobacco is Big Medicine -- the Chief of the herbal medicines

Used with wisdom it has tremendous power for good. Used with ignorance -- addictively -- it has power for death.

There are many, many deep teachings of the Sacred Tobacco -- but like most of what was understood by native relatives, as the colonial invaders swept over North America they paid no respect and generally acted with extreme ignorance and prejudice about the people and the spiritual understandings that are indigenous. The consequences of this are now plain.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Also tobacco used in ceremonies

is natural tobacco, not crack tobacco.

My point exactly.

If the Marlboro man and his cousins were forced to sell that type of tobacco, many of our current addicts would complain since it lost it's oomph... and yes it would.

[Wednesdays]

15. If pot were made legal, I wouldn't mind paying taxes on it (within reason)

:smoke:

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. The Cali proposition

contemplates a tax... and I have no issue with it. It is also cheaper than the law enforcement that goes with it.

[old mark]

18. Back in the early days of the US, there was great resistance to taxes

of any sort. Money for many government projects - bridges, roads, etc, was often raised by selling lotteries. There are tickets from the late 1770's still in existance. Tax on alcoholic beverages was also enforced then, and was strongly resisted. Here in PA, there is a large tax on gambling in the new casinos-some smart person realized that there was legal casino gambling in NY, NJ, and Ohio, and many from PA were spending their cash there...

Rather than tax the HFCS, just remove the subsidies from the huge corporate farms an reserve them for tha family farmer who actually needs them from time to time.

mark

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Of course there was resistance

realize that a bridge was not seen as part of the commons. Why it was done through lotteries, and also why corporations were formed... went away as soon as the bridge was finished.

We also had the Whiskey Rebellion... but the founders got it. For things they believed to be part of the commons... taxes were levied. Some of our locals want to abolish all taxes...

As to the corn subsidies, you will get absolutely no arguing from me. In fact, we need to move away from the CURRENT cheap food policy, since it has also led to silly shit like monoculture, which any farmer would regale you as to how evil it is long term.