Koran Burninator Fool had decided not to burn Qu'ran BEFORE Skater snatched it

[blogslut]

http://myhighplains.com/fulltext?nxd_id=154085

The above is video of David Grisham surrendering his lighter and stating he would not burn a Qur'an. Several protestors placed their hands on the grill where Grisham had planned to set the book aflame. As for the infamous yoinked Qur'an, it is currently in police possession, classified as "lost property".

[tabatha]

1. so after all that, it was not stolen

[blogslut]

2. It was abandoned

I had read someone's earlier account on FB that Grisham surrendered his lighter beforehand. I did not want to repeat that until it was verified. The video above verifies that what stopped Grisham was protesters placing their hands over the grill.

[Swamp Rat]

3. David Grisham's "Amarillo's Army of God"- This nut is a security guard at a nuclear weapons facility

"Back in January, we made a passing mention of a group that was urging a boycott of Houston, Texas due to the election of its openly lesbian Mayor Annise Parker.

The group behind the boycott is called Repent Amarillo, a militant right-wing group that has been actively targeting those in considers to be engaged in sin for months, beginning with a small group of local swingers, as The Texas Observer reports:"

(snip)

"Their leader, David Grisham, a security guard at nuclear-bomb facility Pantex who moonlights as a pastor,"

(snip)

"I am a soldier in the army of my God. The Lord Jesus Christ is my Commanding Officer. The Holy Bible is my code of conduct. Faith, Prayer, and the Word are my weapons of warfare. I have been taught by the Holy Spirit, trained by experience, tried by adversity, and tested by fire. I am a volunteer in this army, and I am enlisted for eternity. I will either retire in this army at the Rapture or I will die in this army. But I will not get out, sell out, be talked out or pushed out. I am faithful, reliable, capable and dependable. If my God needs me, I am there. If He needs me in the Sunday School, to teach the children, work with the youth, help adults or just sit and learn, He can use me because I am there! I am a soldier. I am not a baby. I do not need to be pampered, petted, primed up, pumped up, picked up, or pepped up. I am a soldier. No one has to call me, remind me, write me, visit me, entice me or lure me. I am a soldier. I am not a wimp. I am in place, saluting my King, obeying His orders, praising His name and building His kingdom! No one has to send me flowers, gifts, food, cards or candy or give me handouts. I do not need to be cuddled, cradled, cared for or catered to. I am committed. I cannot have my feelings hurt bad enough to turn me around. I cannot be discouraged enough to turn me aside. I cannot lose enough to cause me to quit. When Jesus called me into this army, I had nothing. If I end up with nothing I will still come out ahead. I will win. My God has and will continue to supply all my needs. I am more than a conqueror. I will always triumph. I can do all things through Christ. The devil cannot defeat me. People cannot disillusion me. Weather cannot weary me. Sickness cannot stop me. Battles cannot beat me. Money cannot buy me. Governments cannot silence me, and hell cannot handle me. I am a soldier. Even death cannot destroy me. For when my Commanding officer calls me from His battlefield, He will promote me to captain and then allow me to rule with Him. I am a soldier in this army, and I'm marching claiming victory. I will not give up. I will not turn around. I am a soldier, marching Heavenbound. Here I stand! Will you stand with me?"

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/individuals/david-grisham
___________

:wow: HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!! :wow:

Somebody please send him far far away from weapons of mass destruction!!!

[blogslut]

5. People have tried

They've reported him to his employer. Pantex's stance is that what Mr. Grisham does during his off hours is none of their business. This is despite the fact that the man harasses private citizens, peaks in their cars and takes down their license plate numbers, all in the name of his "mission".

He's a creepy fucking dude.

[Swamp Rat]

6. Let's protect his right to burn the Qur'an

After all, it is his right of freedom of speech, as he never stated he wanted to cause a holy war or nuthin' else awful to happen. **nudge nudge, know what I mean**

Remember, it is only hate speech if one openly, and clearly states their intent to cause harm to others. Otherwise, burn the motherfucker down!!! YEEEEHAAAWWW!!!!!

Someone who regularly writes to KO and Maddow should alert them. There a lot more behind this than just some dude exercising freedom of speech.

[blogslut]

8. If you can stomach it

Grisham rambles on about his intentions:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000204105867&v=wall&ref=ts

An excerpt:

#3-Islam is not a peaceful religion and Christians need to stop treating this book as holy. It is not holy. One cannot desecrate something that is not holy to begin with. If we show respect to the lie, we by default, elevate the lie to equality with the truth. The Koran is NOT equal to the Bible. The Holy Bible is THE Word of God and as such, is the ONLY holy book on this earth. The Koran is evil personified and has led more people to hell than communism. The scriptures say to fear the Lord is to hate evil. The Koran is evil. Burning it is a statement of hatred for evil. Thus it is a statement testifying to one's fear of God.

[Swamp Rat]

9. Since the Qur'an is evil and Muslims are evil,

then I guess it's ok to start a holy war, especially if it is as easy as burning a single Qur'an far far away from combat.

The Bic Lighter flick heard around the world.

[blogslut]

10. For me, the complete story is much more beautiful

People placed their hands over the grill to keep him from burning the Qu'ran. That's pretty damned wonderful.

[Swamp Rat]

35. Yes, I agree

:)

[annabanana]

16. Gotta tell you. The INSTANT the word "evil" popped up in political

discourse, a chill went down my spine.

[Swamp Rat]

34. Good. It bothers me too,

especially when it is followed by threats of damnation, burning books, and violence.

There's a lot more behind the various instances or threats of Qu'an burning than just 'freedom of expression'.

[Hekate]

12. You saw that other thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4537736

Here I was tickled pink that the peaceful and exceptionally tolerant Unitarian Universalists came out to oppose that yahoo, and that skateboarder Jacob snatched the holy book away before further harm could befall it (it was already soaked in lighter fluid) -- and that thread is chock-full of people saying the skateboarder did a Bad Thing.

God, am I naive.

Hekate

[Orrex]

21. I don't know that you're naive necessarily. You might be, but I don't know.

However, I do know that you--along with quite a few other people--are unable to assess certain situations objectively.

Rather than recognizing this as a question of the right to make a political statement, you and others have raced to condemn Grisham and praise Isom. You and others have attempted all sorts of false equivalencies in an effort to disguise the fact that, ultimately, you're saying "people shouldn't make political statements that I don't like."


The First Amendment isn't intended solely to protect pleasant speech and uncontroversial statements. If you value the freedom of expression at all, then you must accept that some people are going to express views that you don't like.


That doesn't make you naive, but it does make you curiously selective in your assessment of who is and who is not entitled to an opinion.

[seabeyond]

22. to accept freedom of expression does not mean one has to sit back and be quiet. or

my right to expression has been stifled. palin argues the same. hey... allowed to say whatever, how dare you deny freedom expressing by expressing and making me look the fool

what is this argument? i am hearing it more and more from people. as if, we are suppose to quietly allow people to express, in order to implement their right to express

my right, when someone practices this right with racial, sexist, homophobia epithets, is to condemn them thru MY expression. shaming them to STFU. that is not denying them their right. that is utilizing my right.

[Orrex]

23. You are missing the point.

No one--least of all me--is denying the protesters' right to condemn Grisham or his actions. Hell, I condemn Grisham's actions as deliberately offensive. However, I still recognize that he has the right to express his views as he sees fit.

In contrast, several here are criticizing Isom's theft of Grisham's Quran as an attempt to stifle political speech.


If you can't (or if you refuse to) see that, then you're not actually involved in the discussion.

[seabeyond]

24. speaking back and forth involves me, regardless of you accepting and stating otherwise. lol

"several here are criticizing Isom's theft of Grisham's Quran as an attempt to stifle political speech."

i thought you were one, suggesting stealing the koran is stifling free speech? i am not sure of your position now.

stealing koran is theft. grisham burning koran is free speech. the protesters were exercising their rights.

islamic leader giving koran to cops, to prevent isloms arrest, was nice

that is all i have

[blogslut]

25. With all due respect

You're arguing something that did not happen. Isom stole a book. He did not attempt to stifle Grisham's expression of speech. The protestors put their bare hands on the grill and that is what stopped Grisham. Isom acted after the fact. You now know this.

[Orrex]

26. We've moved on to addressing the underlying issue, however (edited)

That is, should political statements be protected even when those statements are objectionable?

The answer, obviously, is a resounding "yes!"



I got a little jumbled there--Isom's act of stealing the book (as it was described in the first post that I saw you link) was not in itself an attempt to curtail Grisham's right to make a political statement, because it occurred after Grisham had already indicated that he would not be making that statement.

[blogslut]

27. Well, I haven't moved on because there's too many people here

...who are misinformed about what actually happened.:hi:

[Orrex]

28. Fair enough--perhaps you could try to get the headline changed on DU's front page?

As of 9:41AM ET it reads Texas Skateboarder Stops Christian Extremist From Burning The Qur’an.

[blogslut]

29. I'm the first DUer to have posted about the story

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9124061

Believe me, I'm trying to correct the inaccuracy. But it seems people would rather rage on a hypothetical than accept a correction. :(

[Orrex]

30. LOL. Yeah, it's hard to un-ring a bell.

Stil, in cases like these, the hypothetical is every bit as important as the actual event, because it catalyzes debate about a truly fundamental aspect of our notion of freedom.


Even if it were revealed that the entire story was a hoax (which it certainly is not, of course), then I would still stand by my statements in these various threads.

[blogslut]

31. As I stand by mine

When I first posted about it, I did so because the image of some sk8tr punk yoinking a Qu'ran out of that hands of that asshole Grisham was pretty juicy and hilarious.

Later I stated that Grisham had the right to file theft charges against Isom and I totally hoped he would because ole' Dave is skating on thin ice with his DoD employer and a lawsuit might just be the crack that gives way.

After reading comment after comment (here and on assorted websites) wailing about how that despicable man's free speech rights were violated, I agreed on an intellectual level. But knowing just how despicable Grisham is, I decided not to join that fray.

Now I know that what stopped Grisham were these wonderful people who put their hands on the grill so he could not continue his nasty act. The story has evolved from a humorous tale to something quite beautiful. Amarillo is my hometown. Texans take a lot of crap from DUers and the true events, that happened in a West Texas town on Saturday, felt like sweet sweet vindication.

[Orrex]

32. I'm totally cool with that.

:toast:

What troubles me through all of this is that people on DU seem wholly incapable of distinguishing between defending the right to make a statement and endorsing the statement itself. You are not one of those people, but I've been in enough controversial threads to recognize it when I see it. Frankly, it speaks of a simplistic notion of the right to free expression.

For the record, I think that Grisham sounds like an asshole, and I personally condemn his intended actions. Simultaneously, I absolutely support his right to express his political views, even if I find them objectionable.

This is no contraction.

[blogslut]

33. My concern is for the sk8tr

I can just see this young man being forced into the national spotlight. Something tells me Mr. Isom isn't ready for that kind of attention. Considering that the true heroes are being ignored in favor of "a juicy story", well, I has a sad.

[MrModerate]

11. Don't they have tests for psychological fitness for security guards?

Especially at very sensative facilities? And this snotball passes?

Now I'm really worried.

[Orrex]

4. K/R

I appreciate this additional look at the situation. The video I viewed earlier was an after-the-fact retelling of what had happened, rather than a real-time account of it.

[blogslut]

7. I had read an account like this realier on FB

However, I chose not to repeat it until it had been verified. An attendee/observer wrote that Grisham surrendered his lighter before the kid yoinked the book. This video completely verifies that account.

[El Prezidente Kaboom]

13. are we sure he didn't take it before he handed over the lighter...it's not 'completely' clear...

Could the events have happened simultaneously? And where was the Koran, when Grisham turned over the lighter? Why wasn't it visible on camera?

[blogslut]

14. I pretty sure the events unfolded as I have described

You're more than welcome to suss through this:

http://www.newschannel10.com/global/category.asp?c=161688&clipId=5104833&topVideoCatNo=default&topVideoCatNoB=118089&topVideoCatNoC=121195&topVideoCatNoD=120082&topVideoCatNoE=137000&autoStart=true&flvUri&partnerclipid

this:

http://amarillo.com/news/local-news/2010-09-12/protester-steals-quran-thwarts-burning

this:

http://myhighplains.com/fulltext?nxd_id=154085

this:

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09/12/skateboarder-extremist-burning-quran/

this:

http://amarillo.com/blog-post/christopher-palkow/2010-09-12/amarillo-koran-burning-epic-fail

this:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2069726&id=1579460195

this:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=207209&id=210413812023&ref=mf

this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoXxLp68Pas

and whatever you can find here:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Amarillo-TX/Amarillo-Citizens-Against-Repent-Amarillo/210413812023?v=wall&ref=ts

If you can determine a different timeline than mine, I will be glad to hear about it.

[blogslut]

15. kick

More people need to see/read this report.

[seabeyond]

17. they make it sound like eventually got koran, but i hear, he gave book to islamic leader

leader gave the koran to cops so the cops would not arrest isom, the guy that stole the book. it was not a mere "it eventually got to cops".

islamic leader also invited all to come to his mosque to learn about muslim religion. and he was quite surprised to find all those protesting in the park

[blogslut]

18. Well, I refrained from stating that explicitly

...because, as of yet, I've not seen nor read a report that states "who" turned the Qu'ran over to the police. My guess is that someone from the Islamic Center did so but I'm in another town and far away from the scuttlebutt.

For me, this story began with an errant tweet late Saturday afternoon. :)

[seabeyond]

20. i am less than a mile away. lol. i didnt now about it until 6 in the evening.

pissed i did not know earlier. i would have gone.

i dont think the news has any desire to show the islamic leader having the most character of all of them. but there were comments in one of the stories from a couple people that were there.

bumed i missed it.

[Douglas Carpenter]

19. great video