The Rise of Nazism...

[judy]

I was born in Europe, and all my life I heard, studied in school, about the rise of Nazism.
I can tell you this teabagging and anti-Muslim thing is exactly like it.

If Obama doesn't take a firm stand for Peace and the true values that maintain it, we're toast!
And he won't. He is (even though I can't see anyone better than him right now) Bush-lite, including the defense of torture and rendition, though no one is sure whether he is actually continuing the policy.

If you ever have any doubt, about whether you should consider Muslims as your brothers and sisters:
1 - Many muslims were killed on September 11th
2 - No one ever claimed responsibility for the attacks being for religious reasons. It was, if any claims were made because of the presence of US military in Saudi Arabia, and the treatment of Palestinians by Israel.
3 - The Q'uran considers Jesus as one of the prophets
4 - Islamic religion condemns the murder of innocents, be they infidel or not
5 - The religion that killed the most "infidels" is of course Christianity, with their lovely Crusades, and the Holy Inquisition, the Burning at Montsegur, the St.Barthelemy Massacre, etc...

Let's be vigilant, and realize what the tea party is and what it leads to, and do our best to not anyone get away with casual Nazi remarks...

[phantom power]

1. I suspect conditions are uncomfortably ripe for an authoritarian movement.

Mr. Jones writes that he started the first day of the experiment (Monday, April 3 1967<2> ) with simple things like proper seating, drilling the students until they were able to move from outside the classroom to their seats and take the proper seating position in less than 30 seconds without making a sound.<3> He then proceeded to strict classroom discipline emerging as an authoritative figure and improving efficiency of the class dramatically.

Jones closed the first day's session with a few rules, only meaning to be a one day experiment. Students had to be sitting at attention before the second bell, had to stand up to ask or answer questions and had to do it in three words or fewer, and were required to preface each remark with "Mr. Jones."<3>

On the second day he managed to meld his history class into a group with a supreme sense of discipline and community.<3> Jones named the movement "The Third Wave", after the common belief that the third in a series of ocean waves is last and largest.<3> Jones made up a salute resembling the one of Nazi regime<1> and ordered class members to salute each other even outside the class . They all complied with this command.<3>

The experiment took on a life of its own, with students from all over the school joining in: on the third day the class expanded from initial 30 students to 43 attendees. All of the students showed drastic improvement in their academic skills and tremendous motivation. All of the students were issued a member card and each of them received a special assignment (like designing a Third Wave Banner, stopping non-members from entering the class, etc). Jones instructed the students on how to initiate new members, and by the end of the day the movement had over 200 participants.<3> Jones was surprised that some of the students started reporting to him when other members of the movement failed to abide by the rules.<3>

On Thursday, the fourth day of the experiment, Jones decided to terminate the movement because it was slipping out of his control. The students became increasingly involved in the project and their discipline and loyalty to the project was astounding. He announced to the participants that this movement is only a part of a nationwide movement and that on the next day a presidential candidate of the movement would publicly announce existence of the movement. Jones ordered students to attend a noon rally on Friday to witness the announcement.<3>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave

[Froward69]

2. unreccers about...

so easily forgotten are the lessons of the past...

republicans love to point out that hitler was the head of "the socialist" party for getting all about what really happened. Hitler was the head of the "National Socialist party or Nazi's and outlawed the "Democratic Socialist Party." allong with all the others. even then his governance was fascist. NOT Socialist.

eh but republicans do not like things like History and facts to get in their propaganda. as History and facts render their ideology inept.

[proteus_lives]

3. I disagree.

The TBs have no single, talented leader. They are not organized, the are on average an older crowd and while our economic situation is bad, it's not like the Great Depression. They are mocked heavily, there has been almost no violence, there is virtually no support from the military.

And as for point 5, that's iffy. I would say that wars of the Mongols killed the most "infidels" and even then, no religion or culture is without blood on their hands.

[dixiegrrrrl]

8. One of the keys elements of totalitarianism is

"they all willingly created a sense of superiority".

As seen in fundie religions, as seen in "America is the most powerful/strong/wealthy/educated/democratic country in the world" repeated over and over and over by politicians, echoed by most "consumers".

add to that inherent racism
add to that rich versus poor mentality.

yeah, we do have all the ingredients.

What is happening now is a pattern of division among groups in this country, on factors of ethnicity, income, religion, politics.
Each member of each group feels superior to the other group.

This prevents unification of people against the REAL villains: those in power who created
government supported theft of our money,
invasion of our privacy,
illegal violations of our Constitution
and imperialism abroad.
The villains who have been rightfully accused of feeling superior to "the small people".

[judy]

15. Mongols were killing muslims...

it is only after they invaded that they converted.
However, I agree that no established religion is without blood on their hands. However, in my view (and I was brought up a Catholic) the Roman Catholic religion is way ahead, because of the merging of Church and State...which reminds me that the blood comes any time there is such a merging.

I hope you are right about the lack of a leader. "talented" could fit Hitler or Mussolini in the same way that it could fit Glenn Beck. They had a great talent for making madness seem normal.
Let's all keep our fingers X'ed and do everything we can so that it doesn't come to be.

If it does, even though I am severely disappointed in Obama (whom I wasn't too crazy about in the first place - I was a Kucinich supporter), we will miss him, believe me!!

[fascisthunter]

4. My Mother, born in Germany Agrees with you

so do the rest of her family there. People here are clueless...

[Karenina]

5. True dat.

[devilgrrl]

16. You can say that again!

I was in Germany this past summer and they wonder wtf is up with us these days.

[fascisthunter]

17. My Family asks me that too

I told them though, they were facing the same right wing agenda and that if they get too complacent and apathetic, they may see similar consequences.

[JustAnotherGen]

6. My boyfriend

Born in Italy to a man who is now 81 years of age -agrees with you. But he sees (and we've argued about) a closer analogy to Mussolini's 'perfect storm' and rise to power.

[pampango]

7. Teabaggers are more like the Know-Nothing party of the 19th century than the Nazi party, I hope.

They've updated the Know-Nothing anti-Catholic sentiment to being anti-Muslim. The teabaggers have kept the KN paranoia about immigration just redirected it. The Know-Nothings fought against German and Irish immigration (which the TP'ers might regard as "good" immigrants now), while the baggers "want their country back" from Hispanic immigration. (I wonder if the KN protestant males of the 1850's used the phrase "we want our country back" and applied it to Catholics. ;) )

Anyway, the Know-Nothing movement fell apart almost as fast as it come together. I think there is a good chance that the tea party with its anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant screed will do the same rather than grow into something as dangerous as the Nazis. It sure merits keeping an eye on them, though, to be sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing

"The Know-Nothing movement was a nativist American political movement of the 1840s and 1850s. It was empowered by popular fears that the country was being overwhelmed by German and Irish Catholic immigrants, who were often regarded as hostile to Anglo-Saxon values and controlled by the Pope in Rome. Mainly active from 1854 to 1856, it strove to curb immigration and naturalization, though its efforts met with little success. Membership was limited to Protestant males of British lineage over the age of twenty-one."

"Fear of Catholic immigration led to a dissatisfaction with the Democratic Party, whose leadership in many areas included Irish American Catholics." - Some things never change. The Democratic Party was and is more open to immigrants.

"In California in 1854, Sam Roberts founded a Know-Nothing chapter in San Francisco. The group was formed in opposition to Chinese and Irish immigrants." - Must have been Chinese Catholics they were worried about. ;)

Usage of the term

The term "Know Nothing" is better remembered than the party itself:

* In the late 19th century, Democrats would call the Republicans "Know Nothings" in order to secure the votes of Catholics. Since the early 20th century, the term has been a provocative slur, suggesting that the opponent is both nativist and ignorant.

* In 2006, an editorial in The Weekly Standard by William Kristol attacked populist Republicans for not recognizing the danger of "turning the GOP into an anti-immigration, Know-Nothing party."<11>

* The lead editorial of The New York Times for Sunday, May 20, 2007, on a proposed immigration bill, referred to "this generation's Know-Nothings...."<12>

* An editorial written by Timothy Egan in The New York Times published Friday, August 27, 2010 entitled "Building a Nation of Know-Nothings" discussed the widespread belief, perpetuated by disreputable media sources, among Republican party members that President Barack Obama is not a legal citizen of the United States and is Muslim.

Platform

The platform of the American Party called for, among other things:

* Severe limits on immigration, especially from Catholic countries. - TP doesn't have a problem with Catholics, just immigrants who will "take the country that they want back".
* Restricting political office to native-born Americans of English and/or Scottish lineage and Protestant persuasion. -Just might be a problem for the modern TP.
* Mandating a wait of 21 years before an immigrant could gain citizenship. - TP might prefer a lifetime ban.
* Restricting public school teacher positions to Protestants. - TPers may prefer Protestant fundamentalists
* Mandating daily Bible readings in public schools. - no TP problem with this
* Restricting the sale of liquor. - This may be where the tea party parts company with the Know-Nothings. :)
* Restricting the use of languages other than English. - still a perennial favorite

[proteus_lives]

9. Yep, that's what I always think of when I see TB stuff.

The Know-Nothings.

[a la izquierda]

11. I live next door to a Tea Party Know Nothing...

She started to blow a gasket today when she found out that the state fair will be dedicating some of the festivities Thursday to the bicentennial of Mexican Independence. She bit her tongue when I turned purple. This came not a minute after she asked if I would help her with her Spanish class.
She knows damn well what I study, that I'm fluent in Spanish, and that I spend part of my year in Mexico. I was speechless. I believe I'll hang my Mexican flag inside on Thursday.

[Binka]

12. She blew a gasket? But asked for your help?

I hope you told her to pound tortillas! What a jerk she is.

[a la izquierda]

13. Yeah, it was really, really strange.

We're civil, because normally they're nice folks, we just never EVER talk about politics. She made some comment about calling INS, and I asked "what the hell for?" That was about all I could say.
She once told me that she felt raped by the electric company because new meters got installed, and that she would homeschool her son so she could teach him what she wanted.

Wow.

[nightgaunt]

10. Calling ones self exceptional can lead to that

Right now the USA can do whatever it wants, regardless of international laws, Constitution or the Nuremberg Laws that tried many German & Japanese to death or imprisonment for those same kinds of crimes. Attacking another country provocatively, without need.

Some of the characteristics that presage a violent and callous dictatorship is a society immured to violence, and disassociated from empathy, and believe they are right and everyone else will always be wrong. Human rights are subject to conditions. Violence is a sacrament and noble thing to use in a righteous and exceptional way.

We and the world have been deliberately put into this position by those among the uber-rich who want an empire to run the way they want it, without the messiness and encumbrances of Democracy and human rights.

[mmonk]

14. Good post.

[Deep13]

18. I consider Muslims and everyone else to be fellow human beings...

...with the same rights and needs as I have. I don't think religious people are less than human just because I don't agree with them. I won't go so far as to call non-relatives "brothers and sisters" as that is a theological assertion that I don't agree with. No stranger can ever be as important to me as my only sister.

I fully agree that we should not single out religious minorities for persecution and that the laws that protect freedom of religion also protect them. I fully agree that we should reject the fascist Tea Party agenda as undemocratic and unamerican. Nevertheless, I am not going to go so far as to defend Islam itself (as opposed to people who believe in Islam.) I also note the unpopular fact that the same laws and principles that protect a person's right to be a Muslim in this country also protect those who are against Islam. The way I see it, Muslims have no better reason to be offended by what they consider blasphemy as angry Christians have for opposing Islam. This is purely a matter of freedom of religion and of expression with neither side having a factual basis for its point of view.

I do not agree as a matter of fact that the West just doesn't understand Islam or that we don't realize it is a religion of peace. I think if anything, we understand well enough but are unwilling to put our own unfounded prejudices under the same microscope. It's not that Islam is just as good so much as Christianity and Judaism are just as bad.

1. I agree that many Muslims were killed on 9/11. They are murder victims just like everyone else killed by terrorists that day. They were killed by young men who did what they did because of their deep faith in the militant aspects of Islam.

2. That's just delusional. The complaint was specifically that western infidels were desecrating the holy land of Saudi Arabia and that the USA continued to support the Jewish side of a religious conflict in Palestine. Those are both specifically theological disagreements. That "offense" against Islam "justified" the murder of 3000 innocent people, including many Muslims. Besides, whoever took "credit" for the attack, we know it was al Qayada (sp?) and that the hijackers did what they did because of their religious beliefs.

3. The Quran considers Jesus to be a prophet of an earlier and incomplete revelation (just as Christians view Moses). When JC claimed to be the son of god, the Jews turned him over to be killed for the blasphemy. All Abrahamic religions claim to be the exclusive "truth" about God and Islam is no exception. The Quaran claims to be not only the final revelation, but also unimprovable. In his book The End of Faith, Sam Harris notes that every year the nation of Spain translates more foreign language books into Spanish than have been translated into Arabic since the 9th century. That illustrates a serious problem in the Islamic world.

4. Frankly, you can pick and choose what to follow in the Quaran. Nevertheless, there is no shortage of directives in it and in the Sayings of the Prophet (Hadiths) admonishing its adherents to fight nonbelievers and to became martyrs for the cause. Regardless of what Islam's holy books say, the history of it is one of conquest at sword-point.

5. It would not surprise me if Christianity had a bloodier history than Islam, but I would still like to see a factual basis for that assertion. Anyway, if your point is to demonstrate that Islam is a religion of peace and the victim of a big misunderstanding, then Christianity's own guilt is not relevant to that discussion. The issue is not Islam vs. Christianity. Rather the issue is free thinking and rational inquiry vs. religious dogma.

[nightgaunt]

19. Me too--even my enemies

For the first thing that is usually done when one wants a war is to de-humanize or through the use of "false speciation" where the enemy (fill in the blank) becomes something other than human like "spick, "slopes," "whitey,"sand nigger," "rag head" and it goes on. Anything to somehow render psychologically in the fighter and social participant, to look upon whomever as not them and therefor more easily killed. It is a form of assisted mass manipulation and induced hypnotic state. It even works on Liberals. Remember how gung ho Senator Kennedy was for striking Iraq after the lies had come down back in 1990?