Why isn't any of us autistic?

[Archae]

My parents received vaccinations, as soon as they became available.
Especially the ones for polio and whooping cough.

My Mom had 5 kids.

There are 7 grandchildren.

There are 6 great-grandchildren.

Every one of us had vaccinations. All the vaccinations.

How many of us have autism? Zero. None.

Doesn't that say something about the anti-vax groupies and "leaders" like Playboy model Jenny McCarthy?

[Orsino]

1. Well, it says that if there were a link, it wouldn't be absolute.

I'm not sure, though, that any of the anti-vaxers have ever claimed that, so your anecdotes won't sway them.

[Archae]

6. There is no "link"

All of the scientific studies say there is no "link."

Why did my Dad get liver cancer and I didn't?
Because he did.

Autism is a mental illness, just like I'm bipolar and my 4 sisters are not.

Vaccinations do have a bad reaction, in a few people. VERY few. Like one in 5 million.
The same goes for aspirin.

This whole "My child's autism was caused by vaccinations" is a scam, mostly pushed by ambulance-chasing lawyers, and quackery-pushing vitamin sellers.

[SugarShack]

16. As children we received an average of 3 vaccines, today children receive around 48!

What do you know about this?

Google Dr. Andrew Moulden. I went to see/hear him speak. He has studied this area of the brain and vaccines for over 25 years! He was a doctor in Canada. They wanted him to lead up what is the equivilent of our AMA for 250,000.00 a year. They said he had to drop this study, and talk. He turned it down. He lost his family and career. He still studies and tries to speak out about what he has found. He speaks out all over Canada and the USA. He also leads the Canadian Action Party.

Here is a good link to get started on Dr. Andrew Moulden. This is very helpful to this conversation.

http://newsblaze.com/story/20080927170755tsop.nb/topstory.html

snip:
How long does it take a medical breakthrough to be acted upon?

A Canadian doctor, Dr. Andrew Moulden says he conclusively proved seven years ago that vaccines cause micro-vascular strokes. Dr Moulden has a 21 year record of award-winning medical study and practice starting at Nipissing University, but he has been unable to get the attention of the College of Physicians or politicians to investigate his findings, which have been corroborated by other doctors.

How vaccines cause micro-vascular strokes
Dr. Moulden says the shots cause our body's own immune systems to hyper-react as large white blood cells naturally rush to attack the foreign particles injected into our bloodstream. The white blood cells are too big to enter, so they surround tiny capillaries where the foreign particles land, clog and collapse the capillaries.

This cuts off pathways for the smaller red blood cells to carry oxygen to the organs near those capillaries that contain the foreign particles. When the particles float near the brain, this lack of blood supply can lead to autism, SIDS and many other diagnosed illnesses in both children and adults.

Our immune systems will continue fighting the particles leading to long-term or chronic illness. Different organs are affected depending on where the particles are, which leads to different symptoms and 'disease' names, but the basic causes are the same and before this discovery were unknown.

The main cause of the problem is the additives in the vaccines. The purpose of the additives is to generate a faster response from white blood cells. This works perfectly - white blood cells rush to the site of the introduced foreign matter - and that is the source of the problem. The white blood cells block the capillaries and also collapse them, trying to destroy the foreign matter.

Dr. Moulden has been appointed to the Scientific Advisory Board for the First Annual World Congress on Vaccinology in Guangzhou, China, December 1- 5, 2008, where, he is to present to a group of 10,000 experts from around the world.

A History of Ignoring a Medical Breakthrough
In 2001, he took his work to the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario. They refused to review his work. He took it to Canadian Members of Parliament including Gurbax Singh Mali (Liberal, Bramalea-Gore) and Michael Ignatieff (Liberal, Etobicoke). They refused to respond. He wrote to U.S. Senator Charles Grassley. Grassley refused to respond. He took it to many established medical bodies. They also did not respond.

Confirmation of Results
Dr. Moulden has confirmed his research with hundreds of independent doctors and other medical experts around the world. Many of them introduced him to clinically proven natural health solutions they provide.

Putting People Before Corporations
When The College of Physicians refuses to acknowledge that there is even a problem and politicians refuse to investigate, what could be done next?

Dr. Moulden decided to run for election as Member of Parliament in the Nipissing - Timiskaming riding where he grew up. By this action, he plans to bring attention to the issue and to finally end the political problems that are blocking this medical breakthrough. Dr. Moulden says big pharmaceutical companies are exercising control over Canada's taxpayer-funded universal healthcare system. One of the ways the pharmaceutical companies are exercising control is in Bills C-51 and C-52 currently in Parliament which would essentially criminalize vitamins and supplements and give big pharmaceutical companies a virtual monopoly on medical treatments.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. "Google Dr. Andrew Moulden. I went to see/hear him speak."

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Andrew_Moulden

Alright, I googled him. Lulz were had.

[Codeine]

41. That dude is some serious whackadoodle.

Seriously, you want me to believe someone who denies germ theory?

[HuckleB]

49. I think it would be a good idea to look at actual research.

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2010/06/multiple-vaccines-infants-harmful-theory-disproved.html

[Confusious]

54. Really? This guy?

Moulden claims several academic degrees, including a medical degree, but he is not licensed to practice medicine anywhere. In fact, there are apparently restraining orders to keep him out of major medical conferences.<1>

The great secret? Apparently, all disease is caused by white blood cells "clumping." Vaccines cause white blood cells to clump. Therefore, vaccines cause all illness.

I guess those people who died of the black death and small pox were ahead of their time. No vaccines then, but they still got sick. and died.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Andrew_Moulden

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[NMMNG]

61. You're not serious, are you?

Sadly I think you are! :rofl:

[LeftishBrit]

78. We had a lot more than 3....

I had vaccines for smallpox (now not given), polio, whooping cough, diphtheria, tetanus, measles, rubella, TB (now not given routinely in UK), and possibly others. Some of these required several boosters, and the smallpox one had to be repeated every time I travelled from the UK to North America, so I had it three times. There were no vaccines in my childhood for mumps, HiB, meningitis and one or two others - but as I said, kids nowadays don't get vaccinated for smallpox and only get vaccinated for TB if they are in special risk categories. So kids now may get more vaccines than we did, but I don't think it's a massive difference.

[LeftishBrit]

79. Andrew Moulden is a quack and a RW nutcase

He claims for example to be able to predict SIDS over the Internet.

He has no real medical qualifications.

Moreover, he was recently a candidate for parliament for the Christian Heritage Party of Canada. I looked up this party. It asserts that the Bible should have authority over civil government and that no laws should be made that contradict the Bible. It is strongly anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, against doing anything about climate change, and is in favour of eliminating the income tax.

On HIV, they state:

'Uganda’s ABC campaign (Abstinence before marriage; Be faithful in marriage; Condoms as a last resort) has been the only successful anti-HIV/AIDS program; the pro-‘gay’ HIV industry opposes it. HIV/AIDS is essentially a behavioural disease, and control requires (a) behavioural change; and (b) normal public health measures (contact tracing; quarantine the infected to protect the uninfected; education). The AIDS Establishment’s focus on medication, if not accompanied by behavioural change, increases the rate of infection by enabling infected persons to live longer (which is good) and to continue to be sexually promiscuous (which is bad).'


The party is extremely enthusiastic about Alan Keyes and has lots of links to his speeches on its website.


Fortunately, it is not a party that's likely to get very far in a country like Canada. But anyone who endorses and wishes to represent a party of this nature, is very suspect both with regard to their sanity and with regard to their general agenda.

[Orsino]

19. Sure, it's a scam...

...but your anecdotal evidence will not persuade committed anti-vaxers, when actual statistics and science stuff doesn't.

[Common Sense Party]

2. Dunno, but count your lucky blessings none of you are severely autistic.

[HereSince1628]

3. I seem to remember that the incidence rate is 1 per 150 in boys

and something less than that in girls.

That being the case, 18 kids is a small enough sample to not expect any occurrence.


BTW, I'm not convinced that mercury in vaccinations increases the occurence of autism. But I do understand the issue of sample size vs attack rates.

[elleng]

4. If autism is related to vaccinations, its not in gmajor part of eneral population.

See Temple Grandin on the issue.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/id/214625

[Ilsa]

5. Prsonally, I think it has more to do with other environmental assaults, but

I also know a family whose child had a severe vax reaction. He had to be institutionalized. None of their other kids got vaxes after that.

My oldest is autistic. I had a vax while I was pregnant. Maybe that had an impact on him. Maybe it didn't. And yes, he reacts more to vaccinations than my second child, who seems to blow them off nicely. My autistic son usually gets a fever and is puny for a couple of days, That's why I avoid them as much as practical.

Just be thankful that you personally aren't affected by autism in your family. It is a heartbreaker. I know. I live with a broken heart. Every day I worry about what is going to happen to my son when I'm gone.

[REP]

25. I am not autistic; I react to vaccines/immunizations with fevers, joint pain, etc

Tetanus shots make me so sick I usually have to spend a day or so recovering. Flu shots make me achy for a day. I am in no way autistic and I had these reactions before I was in kidney failure. These are simply pretty common temporary reactions to vaccines/immunizations that all sorts of people may experience.

[Arkansas Granny]

47. My daughter had bad reactions to vaccinations, but they only lasted

for a few days. She had fever, redness and swelling at the injection site, joint pain, etc. She had no lasting effects and is not autistic.

Edit to add:

I don't know why there are so many cases of autism diagnosed these days, but I don't believe vaccinations are responsible. I know there are medical personnel who see a link, but then again, there are scientists who deny climate change.

[Ilsa]

69. If someone is sensitive to environmental factors affecting

the biology of autism, you can't completely rule out vaccinations, that's all I'm saying. Vaccinations are a form of assault on the body with a long term benefit in building the immune system. They are probably not The Cause for most cases of autism, but I'm not prepared to declare they aren't a factor in Some cases, just as we know that there are a very small percent of people who shouldn't take vaxes because of severe injury (debilitating injury, the kind that ruins the brain and the child ends up institutionalized).

[rucky]

7. Well, you both use anecdotal evidence to reach different conclusions.

I'm reading up on a Vitamin D deficiency theory, myself. Still needs more testing, but it would explain alot.

[aikoaiko]

8. Some of us is.

:shrug:

So far the legitimate science shows no causative link between vacinations and autism, but even if there were a link it would be probabilistic and at a low frequency.

[Drale]

9. Now Im not a scientist

but I dout they are going to find one thing that they can say "this is what causes autism". I am going to say it either a combination of things, or that there isnt a rise in autism, but a rise in the diagnosis of autism and that it has been around forever but it was usaully just diagnosed as a mental illness. although I could be completely wrong.

[Duer 157099]

10. Because you're not pulling your weight

Somewhere there is a family with several autistic people in it.

[Withywindle]

11. Well, some of us are.

There are at least a few posters here who are autistic and open about it, and are pretty eloquent on autism issues.

There are probably lots of others who are but just don't talk about it. The Internet is a really good communication medium for autistic people, as reading body language and unspoken social cues is taken out of the picture and it's all about ideas.


I see your point though. You're talking about the anti-vax issue, and I agree. I am not autistic, and I had the whole range of vaccinations that a child born in 1969 would normally get before school. I STILL remember the taste of the weird liquid that came with the oral polio vaccine of the early 70s. Still taste it whenever the word is mentioned. I couldn't have been older than 4.

Pretty much all the kids I went to elementary school with had the same regime of vaccines. None of us had polio or mumps or measles (we did have chicken pox, though--didn't have that vax yet in the 70s). Granted it was a small school in a rural area, but none of my classmates were autistic either.

[HockeyMom]

12. I worked with a woman who was a Gulf War Vet

Her husband was also a Gulf War Vet. Both their sons were autistic and they blamed the vacs they both got before they served in that war. However, both of them had a whole lot of other ailments themselves which they also blamed on serving in Iraq. Maybe it wasn't the vaccinations they received, but the environment where they lived while in the service?

[mmonk]

13. Because it is most likely an inherited neurological disorder.

My oldest son is autistic and I have been involved in the issue for 25 years.

[Radical Activist]

75. Then why would cases be increasing?

I'm not arguing that it's related to vaccinations, but a sharp increase doesn't make sense if it's genetic.

[KT2000]

14. No

First of all, we are all different with different genetic propensities.
Some little ones have impaired immune systems, or immune systems that are already maxed out, or immune systems in hyper drive - so that receiving the onslaught of vaccines affect them differently.
Some children live in environments that are already taxing their immune systems.
Second, the number of vaccinations given at any one time have increased greatly - sorry can't remember the exact number for now. When I was growing up we got one at a time with long intervals in between.

The reaction of some to vaccines can provide an important clue into understanding the development of autism. Because not everyone who receives vaccines develops autism is not a reason to dismiss this important indicator. It needs more study from the vantage point of "What is causing autism."

Genetics loads the gun, environment pulls the trigger - Kenneth Olden, past editor of NIEHS - Environmental Health Persepctives

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. "not everyone who receives vaccines develops autism"

Nobody develops autism because of vaccines.

[Archae]

20. There's the whole point.

So why are parents going after vaccine makers?

Two reasons: It used to be that psychologists blamed "Mothers who were cold" toward their kids for autism.
Psychologists came up with that theory out of nothing, since they couldn't find anything else to blame.

I have a deep distrust of psychology, since they have far more than their share of quacks and idiots.

One psychologist told my family to cut me off from contact since he claimed my family "caused my bipolar swings."

The "target" of who is to "blame" has shifted.

So now it's "Vaccinations caused my child's autism, and I can sue those big vaccination makers!"

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. The two reasons that people go after vaccines:

stupidity and greed.

[KT2000]

26. there is a long way to go

to understand what is happening. I cannot address the parents pursing liability issues - we just are not that far in our understanding.

[Canuckistanian]

57. Ah, yes, the "Refrigerator Mother" theory

Psychologists in the 1950's said that "genuine lack of maternal warmth" was as an explanation for schizophrenia and autism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigerator_mother

Everyone's been searching for the "easy explanation" for decades. It ain't there.

[Archae]

63. Exactly.

And now it's switched, from the "Refrigerator Mother" to "vaccines."

Same amount of evidence. None.

[Confusious]

22. Vaccines have nothing to do with autism

Absolutly nothing. It's not even an indicator.

Austism rates are the same in groups that have gotten vaccines and those that have not.

Going down that road is going to waste time and money.

Now if you want to talk environment, there's a case there. At least least until a scientific study proves/ disproves it.

[KT2000]

28. I do not think

we can ignore the fact that the behavior of many children has changed soon after the administration of vaccines. That definitely should be a clue.
I do not think the answer will be found by identifying a single cause and effect - as in mercury causes autism.
There are systems in the body that are triggered in times of injury, such as the nitric oxide cycle. It is intended to be short-lived but may get stuck in the ON position. Organ damage subsequently occurs because it does not turn off.
There could be any number of cycles in the human body that could be triggered in this way. It is possible that many vaccines would instigate such cycles and in some children it would not turn off. Damage to the brain could result.

Another example of such injury is stroke.

[Confusious]

30. As I said before, and you ignored

There are the exact same rates of autism in vaccinated children as in unvaccinated children.

If vaccines had anything to do with autism, then the unvaccinated children would have lower rates of autism, or none, but that is not the case.

I will repeat, the rates of autism in vaccinated children are the same as in unvaccinated children.

These studies have been done with multiple population group in multiple countries.

There is no, none, nada, zilch, zero, nil, link to vaccines and autism.

[KT2000]

32. That is just not information

that would cause investigation to disregard vaccines.
For example, let's say that a child is born with a genetic predisposition for autism. It would not become obvious until something instigates the situation that causes full blown autism to manifest. It could be vaccines for some children, or could be a virus for other children, it could be exposure to certain toxic chemicals.
I believe parents who say their children were, for example, verbal until they had vaccines and then they regressed - permanently. That is not information that can be ignored.

Here is a question - When a child receives an injection that contains several vaccines, how does the healthy child's body respond. What immune responses are triggered? Are detoxification enzymes involved? Is the blood brain barrier breached at all?

How does the child who may not have developed properly respond? How does the child who is genetically deficient in certain enzymes respond? How does the child who may have been exposed to toxins in utero respond?

[Confusious]

39. Of course a scientific study isn't, to you

Why let evidence change your cherished beliefs? Why believe a report based on science when it doesn't agree with your belief?

Why weren't there more autism cases years ago? Why did it start becoming a problem in the late 90's?

Why does it continue after they took the thermisol (the main criminal according to the anti-vaxxers?) out of vaccines?



"I believe parents who say their children were, for example, verbal until they had vaccines and then they regressed - permanently. That is not information that can be ignored."

And that's when people who did not get vaccines for their children say they started to change.


You can't change the mind of a true believer, no matter how wrong.

[KT2000]

65. There is no need to be insulting

You are not understanding what I am saying.
You are having a disagreement with the position of the "anti Vax people" and that is not what I have been saying.
If you will notice I did not say anything about thimerosal.

I am suggesting that there are new paradigms of illness and brain injury that need to be considered. Vaccines appear to play a role in that new paradigm.

[Confusious]

70. No, I understand you, and

Unless you have a medical degree (PHd) and a few peer reviewed papers you can point me to so I can read,

there is no new "paradigim" of illness and brain injury, and vaccines don't play a new role in this "paradigim."



Hopefully you don't think you're this dork:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Andrew_Moulden

Because what you suggest sounds a lot like it.

[KT2000]

73. You are being silly

and coming up with straw man arguments.
Over and out

[Confusious]

77. What straw man argument?

I asked you if you had a PHd, and had peer reviewed research to support your "paradigim".

I also asked you if you were talking about Andrew Moulden in your new "paradigim", because what you were talking about sounded like it.


A straw man requires:

"A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position."

I asked you questions, not misrepresent a position, though you might think that if you couldn't answer "yes" on the first, and "no" on the second.

[LostinVA]

37. Continuing to say there is a link doesn't make it so

And never will.

[KakistocracyHater]

67. it is the age of the kids, not the vaccines. the age is why there are

behavioural changes, it's the time of massive brain changes, same as the teen years, often autism symptoms can decrease here, again because of enormous brain changes that start around 12 years & continue as far as 24 years old.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb4384/is_10_40/ai_n29305148/ Pediatric News article

[Confusious]

71. nm wrong spot

[KakistocracyHater]

82. what does nm mean, besides New Mexico?

hardly helps

[Confusious]

84. Never Mind, wrong spot. nt

[Zoeisright]

74. [phone]

That's exactly it. It's a coincidence.

And I thought it was thimerosol that anti-vaccers were up in arms about. Now it's just vaccines in general?? I wonder if removing thimerosol from vaccines, then watching the autism rate increase anyway, had anything to do with that switch.

[KakistocracyHater]

83. I agree vaccines are not a cause of autism, but I do think that a major

crossroads in neural development IS a point where autism shows up, whether by disrupting average neural development, or by slowing it down, it is at this first major brain development that autism tends to be noticed.

[LostinVA]

36. Exactly

The anti-vaxx movement is not only dangerous, but lacking in any scientific grounding.

[HuckleB]

50. Say what?

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2010/06/multiple-vaccines-infants-harmful-theory-disproved.html

[SugarShack]

18. Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award

http://www.cbsnews.com:80/8301-31727_162-20015982-10391695.html?tag=pop

Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award

snip:

The first court award in a vaccine-autism claim is a big one. CBS News has learned the family of Hannah Poling will receive more than $1.5 million dollars for her life care; lost earnings; and pain and suffering for the first year alone.

In addition to the first year, the family will receive more than $500,000 per year to pay for Hannah's care. Those familiar with the case believe the compensation could easily amount to $20 million over the child's lifetime.

Hannah was described as normal, happy and precocious in her first 18 months.

Then, in July 2000, she was vaccinated against nine diseases in one doctor's visit: measles, mumps, rubella, polio, varicella, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, and Haemophilus influenzae.

Afterward, her health declined rapidly. She developed high fevers, stopped eating, didn't respond when spoken to, began showing signs of autism, and began having screaming fits. In 2002, Hannah's parents filed an autism claim in federal vaccine court. Five years later, the government settled the case before trial and had it sealed. It's taken more than two years for both sides to agree on how much Hannah will be compensated for her injuries.

Read Sharyl Attkisson's 2008 report on Hannah Poling

In acknowledging Hannah's injuries, the government said vaccines aggravated an unknown mitochondrial disorder Hannah had which didn't "cause" her autism, but "resulted" in it. It's unknown how many other children have similar undiagnosed mitochondrial disorder. All other autism "test cases" have been defeated at trial. Approximately 4,800 are awaiting disposition in federal vaccine court.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. Hannah Poling does not have autism.

:shrug:

[Confusious]

24. She doesn't have autism

She has "autism-like" symptoms.

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. An autism diagnosis is nothing more than the presence of symptoms ("markers").

It seems apparent to me that the reason she wasn't diagnosed with Autism is because it would have made a settlement impossible - drug companies won't concede that.

It was legally prudent of the Polings to encourage doctors to call it something else.

[Confusious]

52. So the polings doctors who diagnosed her lied

and the government doctors lied, because I'm sure they had a look at her.

Seems reasonable. :sarcasm:

[LostinVA]

38. Hannah does not have autism

She has a unique disorder, and what happened to her was not caused by the vaccines, but resulted in it. Did you not even read what you posted???

[Codeine]

43. How many friggin' time will anti-vaxxers post this nonsense

without even knowing what it is about?

[Electric Monk]

27. aren't

[Book Lover]

29. I beg your pardon - I'm sure you know there are autistic DUers?

I understand your point, but you're going about this in the wrong way.

[KamaAina]

40. I think by "any of us" he meant his family

he surely is aware that I and several others are out there. I absolutely adore his calico kitteh Charlotte. :loveya:

[Archae]

64. That's correct.

By "us" I meant my family.

And Charlotte says "Purrr..."

[TexasObserver]

31. Almost every powerful drug can have horrific side effects for a very small % of users.

Drugs can interact in ways that were not anticipated, and such interactions can have deleterious effects on a very small percentage of those who took such drugs in tandem.

When we move to the next step - the one where vaccines are given, sometimes many at a time - all hell breaks loose. On one side are those who are convinced that vaccines are creating these disorders. They have mainly anecdotal evidence. On the other side are those who cannot accept any possibility that vaccines - like other drugs - can affect small numbers in ways not seen, and cannot accept that giving many vaccines in a short period may result in interactions not anticipated.

Neither extreme is very useful. The most troubling part of the discussion, however, is the manner in which the US government appears to have chosen its role as an advocate and litigant over its role as the body charged with providing full and complete information to its citizens. Like a giant corporation, they're settling bad cases and hiding them away for years at a time. They're not fulfilling their role to be completely forthcoming with information relevant to the discussion.

To slough off the case mentioned with "a mitochondrial issue" is a pathetic dodge. The citizenry deserves answers. We don't know what is causing the alarming increase in autism and autism related conditions, but we can't find out unless all the relevant info makes its way into public review.

The fact that the condition has grown so quickly and so much suggests an environmental cause, not a genetic one (although a genetic predisposition may play a role).

[ecstatic]

33. I think they doubled or tripled the dose starting in1989 nt

[The Straight Story]

34. My mom smoked, so did grandpa, and several others I know. None got cancer. Non-smokers did

though - and several of them were what one would call 'health nuts'

So what does that mean?

[Codeine]

44. It means you can shoehorn smoking into any thread.

;)

[SidDithers]

45. Hehehe....

:thumbsup:

Sid

[The Straight Story]

58. Some folks focus on topics, I tend to focus on the moral values they use in arguments

when you apply the same values to different things suddenly people get a little edgy.

But it is easier to use the keyword 'smoking' than to address the real values and issues behind topics that have that in them.

[The Straight Story]

56. Well, not smoking per se, but the twisted logic people use on a topic

and don't like when that same logic is applied back at them ;)

[Skittles]

35. you're lucky?

My parents received vaccinations, as soon as they became available.

My Mom had 5 kids.

One of them is severely autistic.

[lumberjack_jeff]

42. I wish I had the luxury of being sanctimonious.

Life would be lots easier.

[HuckleB]

48. Are you saying you've never been sanctimonious?

[lumberjack_jeff]

51. No.

But not on this topic.

[HuckleB]

55. Are you sure?

[lumberjack_jeff]

60. Yes, I'm sure.

Autism is no joke.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

62. Anti-vaccers are always a good joke.

They're a bunch of clowns.

[Odin2005]

53. Autism is the most heritable psychiatric condition there is. It's genetic.

There is a very strong bias towards the parents of autistics being engineers, computer programmers, and scientists.

My mom's father likely had Asperger's and she has a sister who is severely autistic.

[Peacetrain]

59. Maybe we are better at identifiying it, so it seems like a huge increase

People suffered many ailments..and had no name or treatment for it.. it just was.

[LeftishBrit]

80. Indeed.

There was a recent study in the UK, which showed that if you apply the same diagnostic criteria, autism is just as frequent in adults as in children, and in older adults as in younger adults. Thus, there has been no big recent increase.

A lot of people who would now be called autistic were in the past diagnosed as maladjusted, 'mentally handicapped' without further qualifications, language-impaired, or as having childhood schizophrenia (the last diagnosis is almost never used now).

[DanTex]

66. Umm, it means absolutely nothing...

Maybe you're right about the anti-vax movement. But the argument you make is inane and completely unscientific.

Kind of reminds me of the "my grandfather smoked two packs a day and lived to be 100" argument about lung cancer. In fact, it also reminds me of the Jenny McCarthy argument "my child started showing autism symptoms shortly after getting a vaccine".

IMO, if you're accusing others of pseudo-science, you have an extra responsibility not use pseudo-scientific arguments of your own.

[LWolf]

68. Who said none of us are autistic?

While I don't have a side in the vaccination wars, there are autistic people in older generations. Temple Grandin is one; she was born in 1947.

I think you'd also have to look at the vaccinations themselves, and how they've changed, to argue for or against a relationship to autism.

[mkultra]

72. thats a pretty weak case if you consider genetic predisposition

not that i am arguing for the autism camp. I'm just saying your rational is pretty stupid.

[McCamy Taylor]

76. One polio vaccine at age 10 is not equal to seven TOTAL vaccines by age 2 months.

A little radiation does not hurt you. A lot of radiation can kill you.

By the time kids turn one, they have received (wait a sec while I count this up) 30 different vaccines . In a child whose brain is still growing.

I think the last straw was the Hep B at birth and then at two and six months. Before that, I saw very few autistic kids. Keep in mind that Hep B is given to infants because in inner city hospitals with a lot of drug addicts giving birth, it was cheaper and easier to treat all babies with Hep B vaccine than to test the mother and treat only those kids who needed it.

Hep B is essentially a sexually transmitted disease that becomes a risk after adolescence. But all our babies get vaccinated against it--even though their immunity fades by age 12 and they have to get the vaccine again anyway.

A few years ago, pediatricians jumped on the Rotavirus vaccine bandwagon---until the vaccine had to be yanked because it caused a dangerous bowel condition.

[LeftishBrit]

81. Children in the UK do not usually get the HepB vaccine.

Our autism rates are the same as those in the USA. So it's very unlikely to be a factor.

And we certainly had lots of vaccines in infancy, including the polio one - it was not postponed to age 10, though we may have had boosters at later ages, especially if we were travelling.