Maddow's labeling of Bubba as a Republican was just weird, considering GOP'ers never liked him

[DrSteveB]

The issue that people who dislike Bill Clinton never touch is why, if he was such a "Republican" president (in the words of Rachel Maddow), only 13% of Republicans voted for him in 1996 while 85% of Democrats did so?

How come as of 2007 89% of Democrats, in retrospect, viewed Bubba favorably while 30% of Republicans did so? link

Some might argue that Bill Clinton is some kind of moderate Republican (since Maddow called him the "best Republican President"), and Republicans do not like moderates; but that would be a bad argument, because Democrats like moderate Republicans even less than that. I challenge anyone to find me any moderate Republican who ever got near-90% support from Democrats while getting about 13% support from Republicans.

It looks like Rachel Maddow is out of touch with the overwhelming majority of not only Republicans, but also Democrats, in this respect.

Here's a good quote:

BILL CLINTON: "One of the leading television commentators on one of our liberal cable channels said I was the best Republican president the country ever produced, which would come quite a surprise to the Republicans, half of whom still think I'm a closet communist,"

[Taverner]

1. Michael Moore did a similar rant in 'Stupid White Men'

And I agree - as far as Republican Presidents go - Bill Clinton would have been one of the better ones.

But as a Democrat, he doesn't even score.

[DeSwiss]

2. +1

[arcane1]

5. Beat me to it!

And you even remembered the book title for me :)

As I recall, Moore did a good job of backing up that statement too

[tabatha]

3. Mike Malloy also calls Clinton a Republican.

[movonne]

9. When he was in office many dems called him a repug...at least the

best repug prisident...

[xchrom]

4. That the GOP doesn't like x, y or z doesn't mean it

Isn't neoliberal, republican inspired crap.

It just means they hate dems taking the
Talking Point away from them.

[DrSteveB]

11. You forgot the parts where Democrats loved him

Any reason behind your omission?

[tularetom]

6. Well we could start with NAFTA, welfare "reform"

media consolidation, don't ask don't tell, ad nauseum. He did so much to suck up to the republicans, I don't blame anybody for calling him the best republican president we've ever had.

Except our current president seems determined to challenge him for the title.

I liked Clinton in spite of his republican leaning tendencies. Why? Because the republicans despised him.

[DrSteveB]

8. Why don't you cite every issue instead of two?

There are a lot of issues in this world, and looking at the big picture, Democrats liked those issues as a whole, while Republicans hated them.

How important among the most important issues in Americans' mind were those two?

How did Democrats view welfare reform measures taken by Clinton? Those questions are important.

[kristopher]

10. How about a shitty energy and environmental record also.

[tularetom]

19. Now that Democrats have had more than a decade

to witness the damage done to the country by Clintonomics, (which were not much more than an extension of Reaganomics) I'd venture to say their opinions of him are probably a good bit lower than they were at the end of his term.

He did a classy thing by endorsing Jerry Brown after Brown took a cheap shot at him, but on the whole it's time for him to shut the fuck up and go away.

By the way you haven't provided any reason that Rachel is wrong except "Democrats like him". I'd trust her to know what Democrats think more than an out of touch Bill Clinton.

[BlueCheese]

21. Democrats are so strange.

When the economy was booming in the 1990s, the Republicans were claiming it was because of policies enacted by Reagan a decade earlier.

When the economy is in the dumps now, the Democrats are claiming it's because of policies enacted by Clinton more than a decade earlier.

Republicans try to claim credit for successes that aren't theirs. Democrats fight for blame over failures that are someone else's.

Maybe this has something to do with why people are inclined to throw out the Dems and bring in the GOP again?

[DrSteveB]

27. a couple of big problems with your post

You said that now that Democrats have had "more than a decade" to re-examine Clinton's work, they (you guess) might now disapprove of him much more. But I included a 2007 poll in my OP where 89% of Democrats view him favorably. that wasn't a decade ago. It was 3 years ago.

Second problem: You falsely state that the only reason I gave you guys was "Democrats like him." Wrong. I also said that Republicans hated him, but you ignored that because it undermined your argument.

[Winterblues]

22. Don't ask don't tell was a huge improvement over what was before it.

During his Administration over sixty percent of welfare reciprocates found gainful employment and left the rolls of welfare. The Family Leave Act was accomplished in his first term. He created a Budget surplus and managed to cut the extremely bloated Defense budget..After the misadventure in Somalia which Bush 1 created he never lost a GI and yet stopped the Serb uprising and saved countless lives. IMO I would vote for him again in a heartbeat.

[indepat]

26. And deregulation, the repeal of Glass-Steagall and passage of the Commodities Futures Modernization

Act 2000, much to the liking of the big commercial banks and Wall Street, and a goodly portion of the genesis of the almost complete financial meltdown. If this weren't doing the pubs bidding, I don't what it would take. ;)

[elleng]

7. Jake Javits

The nuance of DLC approach to things has been lost to most, imo.

[laughingliberal]

12. Simply illustrates the difference between those who focus on policy & those who focus on...

...personalities and party affiliation.

[spanone]

13. bubba? really?

[malaise]

14. Simple question

Let Bill Clinton name his liberal policies during his time in office.

[me b zola]

18. I've been thinking a lot about this since yesterday when I read a comment in another thread y

The poster asserted that there is always great rw opposition when progressive policies are being enacted, like during the Clinton years. I haven't been able to get that out of my mind, because I can't recall one progressive policy or acts of leadership to inspire progressive policies from the Clinton administration. I didn't post on it because perhaps there were some acts of progressivism that I am unaware of or have forgotten. I have been googling to see if I could find any examples of progressivism from the Clinton administration, but so far my search of "progressive policies Bill Clinton" has revealed link after link to dlc/"new democrat" talks of "progressive" policies that are nothing more than moving the party to the right.

Its really shocking to me. I knew that some awful republicanesque stuff came out of his administration, but I had never considered that there was no progressive change at all to come from his administration.

If I am wrong, if someone knows about any progressive policy that came from the Clinton administration, please post it. Sometimes it is good to be proven wrong, this would be one of those times that I would welcome it.

[malaise]

34. I think you're being harsh on him

I can't name too many progressive policies from the majority of progressive governments on the planet at that time. The entire world had moved to the right after the collapse of Communism. All progressives were on the defensive and morons like Fukuyama were writing about 'The End of History'. Even he had to admit he was wrong as did the neo-liberal Jeffrey Sachs.

We are slowly turning back to progressives ideas after the excesses of the neo-cons and neo-liberals. Add to that the fact that the Clintons have never been left wing Democrats.

[haele]

15. What Rachel meant was that even though Clinton identified as a Democrat -

His policies were pretty much in line with the policies of moderate Republicans, rather than Democrats of that time. They were actually right of Nixon's policies, in fact - especially when dealing with socio-economic and corporate policies. His "it's the economy, stupid" policy stance early in his administration changed pretty quickly when it came down to elections and other political posturing.
So, yeah, despite what he called himself on the voter registration slip, by his own policy actions he could be considered a either pretty decent moderate Republican or a neo-liberal/corporatist Democrat - basically, a Dixiecrat without the race hang-up.
Similar to the fact that we can safely say that most of the Blue Dogs and DLC'ers can be considered policy-wise moderate Republicans; the policies of both groups tend to be closer to the Republican policies of the late 80's/early 90's than those of Democrats during that time.

Haele

[hfojvt]

16. I never liked him either

I sorta detailed why

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/74

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/71

[xultar]

17. I see it on Du alot. Rachel is a professional and should be ashamed

of pulling such bullshit.

[BlueCheese]

20. You'd think we'd want that legacy.

What is Maddow saying? That things like 4% unemployment, low inflation, a budget surplus, the highest median household income ever, peace in Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia, and Kosovo, and general respect abroad were the result of a Republican administration? That the "first black president" was really a Republican?

Uh, no. Sorry, that's ours. The GOP can make do with its monstrous deficits, unpopular wars, and discredited economic policies. The peace and prosperity of the 1990s belongs to us.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

23. Rachel Maddow is not my God...she is not my hero...she is a news reporter...

...and if I have to choose sides between Maddow and the Dawg, I'm going with the Dawg. Period.

[craigmatic]

24. The reason people still like Clinton is because he kept the status quo. What's more republican than

that? Clinton cut welfare, passed NAFTA, and cut wall street regulation. Those are repub policies.

[DrSteveB]

29. You said "people still like him" but do Republicans like him?

Only 30% of Republicans view him favorably as of 2007, just 3 years ago. I believe that's why you said "people" like him instead of "Republicans like him," which is the issue in question.

You then said that there's nothing more Republican than the status quo, which is wrong in two levels:

1) Screwing up the country beyond the status quo at any given moment is the most Republican thing there is, and

2) If the status quo is so Republican, and Bill Clinton represented the status quo, then why only 30% of Republicans view him favorably?

[craigmatic]

35. That's 30% more than the number of repubs that like Obama.

[DrSteveB]

37. Bill is viewed slightly more favorably than Obama among Democrats , and you exaggerated

Several things are wrong with your post.

1) Republicans certainly view Bill more favorably than they view Obama, but you said the difference is 30%, which is false. The difference is 13% (30% for clinton and 13% of republicans view obama favorably). See July, 2010 comparison.

2) Even though more Republicans view Clinton favorably, It's odd to use Barack Obama as the factor to determine whether a Democrats is actually a "Republican" or not. Why don't you say that Republicans hate Clinton and hate Obama even more?

3) Favorability among Democrats is 89% for Clinton and 86% for Obama. Do you think it's normal for a "Republican" to have an approval as least as high as the super-duper-Democrat that you think Obama is?

[craigmatic]

38. Yeah I exagerated the numbers but Clinton has an advantage Obama doesn't have. He's out of office

and doesn't have any real responsibilities like Obama. That plus the emotional charisma Clinton has is why his approval is so high. Not to mention Obama has actually implemented a successful progressive agenda.I was just being hyperbolic in my last post about how Obama doesn't get 30% of the repub approval. I don't think Clinton is republican but he is/was a conservative DLC president compared to his predecessors and Obama.

[DrSteveB]

39. Are you implying that Republicans liked Clinton when he was in office?

?

[craigmatic]

40. No I'm saying they like him better out of office

[quickesst]

25. Clinton a repub president?

That's some pretty pathetic horse-shit they're peddling. Sad that so many are lined up to buy the snake oil. Thanks.
quickesst

[MadHound]

28. Let's compare Clinton's record to Ike's

You will find that their record and platform are pretty much on the same side of the political spectrum.

[EFerrari]

30. Rachel did not come up with that description. It's been around

for years. I don't even remember who said it first.

[NorthCarolina]

31. Rachel, as usual, was spot on in her statement

Lest we forget:

1993: Don't ask, don't tell (DADT)

1994: NAFTA which led to rising trade deficits, significant job displacement and declining job quality for United States workers. Per the Mexican Prime Minister "NAFTA was an agreement for the rich and powerful in the United States, Mexico, and Canada, an agreement effectively excluding ordinary people in all three societies." NAFTA rules protect large corporate investors while undercutting workers rights, environmental protections, and democratic accountability.

The Telecommunications Act of 1996 which continued the historic industry consolidation reducing the number of major media companies from around 50 in 1983 to 10 in 1996, and 6 in 2005. An FCC study found that the Act had led to a drastic decline in the number of radio station owners, even as the actual number of commercial stations in the United States had increased.

1999: President Clinton proposed investing the Social Security Trust Fund in the stock market and bonds.

1999: The Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act(GLB), also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 which repealed part of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, opening up the market among banking companies, securities companies and insurance companies.

So lets all get real here, Bill Clinton has a solid conservative record that any Republican would be proud of. Rachel is absolutely correct to refer to him as she did, and to attempt to spin the facts and reality otherwise is ridiculous on its face.

Face it, the DLC is Not On Your Side Mr/Ms/Mrs average American.

[xchrom]

32. +1 -- it's up to centrists to describe in detail

How those are not moderate republican homeruns.

And are we now -- based
On the power elite -- the party of moderate republicans?

I was a believer in the Clinton earn- I'm
Not now.

[BlueCheese]

33. A few points

As irritating as Don't Ask, Don't Tell is today, it was a big improvement over the status quo. If you want to criticize him on gay rights, DOMA is a much better argument.

Clinton also did the following things, among many, many others:
- Raised taxes on the wealthy. This was such a conservative achievement that Republicans are fighting tooth and nail to prevent it from happening again.
- Cut taxes for the working poor via an expansion of the EITC. I suppose conservatives love cutting taxes.
- Fought for universal health care via a plan much to the left of this year's health insurance reform, which is supposedly a great progressive achievement.
- Signed the Brady Bill.
- Negotiated the Kyoto Protocol.
- Signed the Family and Medical Leave Act and the CHIP program.
- Appointed Steven Breyer and Ruth Bader Ginsburg to the Supreme Court

Honestly, to say that he had a conservative record is hyperbole. He may not have been as liberal as many Democrats would have liked, but let's not overdo it.

[DrSteveB]

36. Shhhh

Don't ruin the fun!