How the Rich Conduct Class Warfare

[dajoki]

Cenk Uygur's blog
How the Rich Conduct Class Warfare
by Cenk Uygur | September 15, 2010 - 11:17am
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/node/31320

First, let me get this out of the way -- I have no problems with the rich. I plan on being rich. I'm an American. I believe. We all believe we can get to the top and enjoy the spoils of wealth. We are Americans.

That's never been the issue. And in my lifetime the poor or middle class have never come close to declaring anything other than envy for the rich. But there is a class war going on. It's being conducted by the rich on the middle class in this country.

Again, let's be clear. It's not by all of the rich or even most of the rich. There are great philanthropists among the rich. In fact, over 40 billionaires just pledged to give away half of their money to charity. Bill Gates earned his money, is giving it away and has no interest on declaring war on the middle class.

I'll even give you the classic line -- some of my best friends are rich. So, this isn't about some ridiculous stereotypes or populist demagoguery. This is about stone cold facts.

Some of the wealthiest people in this country have been systematically trying to reduce their own taxes and make sure their companies are not regulated by the government. This makes sense. They want to make more money. But in the process, they have bought our politicians, corrupted our system and ultimately given us enormous income inequality.

This income inequality doesn't seem just, but that isn't my main issue. The real problem is the results of that inequality. It leads to speculative bubbles, crashes, recessions and depressions. It leads to the middle class losing their pensions, having stagnant wages for the last thirty years and lacking opportunity to move up the chain. It kills our economy and ultimately it kills the American Dream.

Here are some numbers on the rich versus the middle class that demonstrate what I'm talking about:

All of the money went to the top. Do you know that between 1979 to 2007 income for the bottom fifth of the country went up by just 16%, but for the top 1% income it went up a staggering 281%?

The rich got much richer. This is not an accident. People like the Walton family and the Koch brothers have been doing this for a long time. The Waltons don't want to pay estate taxes for understandable reasons because they plan to inherit and pass on billions of dollars. It is cost efficient for them to buy our politicians for a couple of thousand dollars in campaign donations. The Koch brothers hate taxes and regulation of their businesses. If you want to know how they have hijacked our system you should read this brilliant article by Jane Mayer in The New Yorker. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer

Meanwhile, you know what happened to the poverty rate - it went skyrocketing up. Now, one in seven Americans lives in poverty. That's 45 million people. Last year, we had the highest increase in poverty since the government started keeping these numbers in 1959.

The poor are growing, the middle class is shrinking and the rich are getting even richer. This is how you build a Third World country. So, the next time you hear about class warfare, understand which direction it's going in.

Some of the wealthiest people in this country pulled the wool over your eyes and picked your pockets. I don't have anything against the rich and I understand their motivation. But the rest of us are crazy to keep letting it happen. At some point, you have to fight back. Not with pitchforks, but at the very least with your votes.

Now that you know the game that's being played, it's incumbent on you to make sure you join the battle. Help us save this country and rebuild our once great middle class.

[RandomThoughts]

1. It is not a game, that is a delusion

to get people to think it is just a game.

[RadicalTexan]

81. I agree.

[KakistocracyHater]

104. he says he understands their motivation, I don't. How many MORE millions

do they feel they're 'owed'? Or billions? These people are the top 1% wealthiest in America-wtf is motivating them to take tax-payer's money via TARP, take workers' pensions, & now they want MORE?

[Hannah Bell]

2. stupid to give a pass to bill gates. he's one of the biggest class warriors out there.

he tries to get his taxes reduced (check out his involvement in wa state & the uses of foundations as tax dodges), he's the biggest user of h1b's (cheap labor), & he's the biggest funder of school deform (union-busting/cheap labor).

bill gates is as creepy as they come.

[Vincardog]

3. Second that. BG is funding Charter School 'reform' to enrich himself and he wants PRAISE for it

That is class warfare at its best/worse

[Fire1]

9. True that! n/t

[EOTE]

4. Bill Gates is one of the few wealthy people I hear supporting the estate tax.

In fact, he wants it to be larger. He's also probably the biggest philanthropist the world knows at the moment. And before you try to suggest his charitable work is just a ploy to create more Microsoft addicted citizenry, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has done more to eliminate Malaria than about any other organization on earth.

To suggest that his charitable work is done solely for selfish reasons is completely ignoring reality.

[Hannah Bell]

5. hahaha. bill gates will never pay estate tax. he wants to give that

to the "little people" who don't have the lawyers to lock theirs up in a private foundation.

people are very gullible; gates' pr pays!

bill gates does no "charitable" work. everything he does benefits he & his.

[EOTE]

6. Which is why he's fought for the tax's repeal?

Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense. In fact, he's called for the tax to be higher. He's also said that his children won't be receiving more than $10 million of his money. 99% of it is going to go to charity ultimately. But hey, you've got your emotion, which I'm sure trumps actual facts.

http://washingtonindependent.com/92237/senate-votes-down-permanent-end-to-the-estate-tax
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2010/06/16/gates-buffett-600-billion-dollar-philanthropy-challenge/

[the redcoat]

7. this is america

you actually expect facts to trump emotion?



the simple truth when it's all said and done is that it is 100% possible to be (very) charitable and yet still do certain things in your own personal interest.

[EOTE]

8. Sure, some of it is in his self-interest.

But no one could say, with a straight face, that Bill Gates would be in worse financial condition if it wasn't for his charitable givings. And no one could say his opposition to the estate tax is due to his greed. One may have a number of issues with Bill Gates, but he should really receive credit for at least those things.

[Hannah Bell]

10. oh, there are plenty of facts. you just don't want to hear them. keep thinking bill is a nice man

-- that's what he's paying for.

[EOTE]

12. You're pretty hilarious. You must have facts and emotion confused.

I posted many facts, and even sources to back them up. You posted nothing but emotional rants, with nothing to back them up. But if you want to back up any of your emotion with facts, you're more than welcome to.

[Hannah Bell]

13. no, you posted some pseudo-facts. you've never troubled to look at what's behind the pr spin.

i have.

[EOTE]

14. You haven't posted a single fact, not a single one.

And you calling my facts "pseudo" doesn't make them less facts. You haven't even explained why you think any of my specific points are wrong, you just expect me to take your emotional outburst as fact. That's kindergarten level debate. So please tell me, how is Bill Gates' stance on increasing the estate tax PR spin? How is it that he intends to do the exact opposite of what he says with regard to the issue? Or can I simply expect a "Nuh uh!!!" as a retort?

[Hannah Bell]

15. riddle me this: if gates loves the estate tax so much, why is he locking up his

assets in a private foundation?

ditto buffett.

i repeat: estate taxes are for others.

[EOTE]

16. What private foundation would that be?

The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation? That will be giving away billions of his dollars to charitable work? Arrrggghhh!! You got me! He's giving away his money to those greedy orphans so he doesn't have to give it to that parasitic government! Blast!

So your argument is that he can't support increasing the estate tax because he's giving away most of his money so he won't be subjected to it? You're brilliant!

And I'm guessing he's limiting his children to $10 million in inheritance simply because his kids are do-nothing punks.

You've got bullet proof logic there.

[Hannah Bell]

18. i repeat: if bill loves the GOVERNMENT'S ESTATE TAX so much, why doesn't he want to pay it?

why does he lock his money up in a PRIVATE FOUNDATION, controlled by himself, which will be controlled by his heirs & self-selected reps after his death?

saying he gives his money to his self-selected "charities" instead doesn't answer the question i posed.

private foundations are:

1. tax-free investment funds
2. tax-free lobbying, propaganda & policy-making ventures
3. tax dodges
4. sinecures (salaries, consultancies, research grants) for heirs, hangers-on, or people one wants to buy


for starters.

Top categories of Gates' Foundation's spending 2009:

1. US Education: $373 million (i.e. Ed Deform)

2. Administrative costs: $351 million (Sinecures)

3. Agriculture $316 million (R&D for patent-protected, licensable genetically-engineered crops & marketization of peasant economies)

4. Policy & Advocacy: $307 million (Propaganda, Lobbying, PR, bribery)

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/2010/09/analysis_ii_gates_foundation_annual_report.html

[EOTE]

19. You seem to have a very difficult time grasping the logic of this.

What is Gates' motivation for wanting to ensure the Estate Tax remains? And even become larger? Well, I can't read the guy's mind, but I imagine it's something like this (based upon his words in the past): He believes that the wealthy should not be able to pass all of their wealth down from generation to generation because he believes that dynasties are bad for the country.

Now, considering that, one does not need to have all of one's income subjected to the Estate Tax to ensure that one's massive wealth does not create a dynasty? Understand? Probably not.

What you are saying is that Bill Gates personally benefits from his foundation that has already given away several billion dollars of his own wealth, that is patently ridiculous.

What he is doing is ensuring that there will not be several generations of obscenely wealthy Gates's, comprende? So if you cannot see the logical consistency of supporting an increase in the estate tax while simultaneously creating a charitable foundation, then that speaks to deficiencies in your own mind, I'm afraid I can't help you.

[Hannah Bell]

20. You seem to have a very difficult time grasping the logic of this.

gates wants to keep the estate tax because:

1. it doesn't hit the super-rich or "obscenely wealthy", who have armies of lawyers to lock up their assets in private foundations & trusts, and actually gives impetus to that choice, which is to gates' class's advantage, and

2. foundations *are* a way of passing on control over wealth to heirs (that's why buffett gave each of his kids one, plus management of the one he established in his dead wife's name), and

3. there have already been 4 generations of "obscenely wealthy" maxwells (gates' maternal side), being as great-grandpa & grandpa were bank presidents working for the rockefellers' city bank franchise, and

3. the estate tax hits the land-poor & regional small to medium-sized businesses hardest.


gates is part of a dynasty already, & that dynasty will continue. there are dynasties all over, controlling most of the productive capital of the nation: some obviously, some covertly. the estate tax is to pick off their possible competitors & the financially clueless (i.e. geriatric farmers whose land has appreciated).

you have no clues on this subject, "comprende"?

some reading material on dynasties:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Hannah%20Bell/58

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7694259

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4771159&mesg_id=4771159

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6988486

[EOTE]

21. Oh, so now you SUPPORT the repeal of the Estate Tax?

Because it's so hard on those poor small and medium-sized businesses? Wow, I never thought I'd be hearing that tired republican chestnut trotted out.

And then you have the balls to bring up the dynasties of family members as a reason why Gates himself can't support the Estate Tax? Yeah, that's some real intellectual honesty there.

Math seems to be a very weak point for you. Tell me this, if Gates were interested in passing his money down to subsequent generations, wouldn't the easiest, most cost-effective way of doing that just be to... ummm... pass down that money in an inheritance? Bill Gates could do that and each of his children would have SEVERAL BILLIONS OF DOLLARS to continue his dynasty. Instead, he's giving that money to a charitable organization and giving his children $10 million. But in your twisted logic, his children can receive more of that money by controlling that charitable organization. Yep, makes sense to me. When little Gates Jr. wants that extra Bugatti, he'll just need to write himself a check from the "Little Timmy Gates Wants a Bugatti" fund.

And just so you know, Buffett is one of the good ones too. He taught his children that works are far more important than wealth. That's why there will be no Buffett dynasty. You are so uninformed on this subject it's laughable.

[Hannah Bell]

22. i suggest you go back & read what I *wrote,* instead of spinning it.

foundation INVESTMENTS = "tax-free"

All of it. every bit. the capital that's invested and the profits.

get it?

also, being as it's a "private" foundation, there's comparatively little oversight.

get it?

do you always believe the press releases rich people put out?

you don't know shit about buffett or gates, but pretend you know their secret hearts.

laughable.

[EOTE]

23. Well, I would QUOTE what you wrote, but you just deleted it.

You know, what you said about the Estate Tax harming medium and small sized businesses. So, can't really help you there, you decided that making your point is more important than being anything approaching honest.

foundation INVESTMENTS = "tax-free"

Wow, brilliant work there, Sherlock. Are you just figuring this out? Do you know why the government doesn't tax that type of spending? Is it perhaps to encourage charitable donations? Are you actually suggesting that charitable foundations be taxed? No wait, you're going to accuse me of putting words in your mouth and then just delete that bit of asshattery and pretend like it never existed.

Let me make this very easy for you. You've got Mr. Rockefeller with a billion dollars. He wants to pass down as much of that money as possible to his children. Now, he could give his children an inheritance, and after being subjected to taxes, give his children $600 million dollars when he passes. Or, he could setup a charitable foundation. Now, in your mind, Mr. Rockefeller could pass on more of his money to his children by creating this charitable foundation. Now, please tell me how Mr. Rockefeller will pass on more than $600 million dollars to his children by creating a charitable foundation. I eagerly await your answer. And if you can't provide an honest answer to this question, you're completely full of shit.

[Hannah Bell]

36. i didn't delete anything. i added something. check again.

20. You seem to have a very difficult time grasping the logic of this.
Edited on Wed Sep-15-10 01:52 PM by Hannah Bell
gates wants to keep the estate tax because:

1. it doesn't hit the super-rich or "obscenely wealthy", who have armies of lawyers to lock up their assets in private foundations & trusts, and actually gives impetus to that choice, which is to gates' class's advantage, and

2. foundations *are* a way of passing on control over wealth to heirs (that's why buffett gave each of his kids one, plus management of the one he established in his dead wife's name), and

3. there have already been 4 generations of "obscenely wealthy" maxwells (gates' maternal side), being as great-grandpa & grandpa were bank presidents working for the rockefellers' city bank franchise, and

3. the estate tax hits the land-poor & regional small to medium-sized businesses hardest.



and i already answered your other question. you just choose to ignore the answer because it doesn't fit your script.

[EOTE]

40. You did delete. And now you have two number threes.

Your multiple edits make it nearly impossible to have a legitimate conversation with you.

You haven't answered anything. Once again, how does Bill Gates benefit financially by his foundation? How can he give his children more money through his foundation than by just giving his children a massive inheritance? You are being completely irrational. Gates is doing good things with his money, things most billionaires wouldn't dream of, and he's convincing other billionaires to do the same thing. But your blind hatred of him gives you a completely ridiculous and conspiratorial view of any actions he takes. You can't even justify it in your own mind, your logic is just that he's rich, so he must have evil motivations for everything he does. Pathetic.

[Hannah Bell]

64. i edited. i didn't delete, as the item you said i deleted is still there.

now i edited this, see?

[EOTE]

67. Yeah, you edit your posts so frequently, I can't keep up.

Makes it rather difficult to respond to them. Regardless, I showed quite clearly how you slammed the estate tax. And you've done nothing to show me how Bill Gates can better ensure his dynasty by giving billions away to charity instead of giving those billions to his children. I'm sure you've got a brilliant theory about how it's done, I'd love to hear it.

[Hannah Bell]

69. if you want to explain why gates has his money locked up in a private foundation so he won't

have to pay estate tax on it, i'd be glad to listen.

[EOTE]

73. Because he'd rather give his money directly to charity than to the government?

Hard to understand, isn't it? That was a rhetorical question. Of course, for you, that's insanely hard to understand. Derrrrrrrr.

[Hannah Bell]

74. lol

so would all the richie-riches

that's why they invented private foundations

where they could invest all their money tax-free & use the profits to manipulate public & global policy free from democratic oversight

[EOTE]

76. Your density is showing again.

How many "richie-riches" have pledged to give away more than 99% of their wealth when they pass? Not fucking many. So your position is that his foundation will "manipulate public & global policy free from democratic oversight" and that is more powerful to him than actually keeping several billions of dollars. Well, that's an idea, a rather stupid one, but an idea none-the-less.

[Hannah Bell]

78. you're misinformed. the foundation will continue after his death.

[EOTE]

79. Derrrrrrr. Of course it would. Where did I state otherwise?

Do you think the money would magically disappear when he dies? Are you so devoid of thought that you have to make up imaginary issues to continue arguing?

[Hannah Bell]

80. i see. you're claiming gates will give away 99% of his wealth when he dies but

his foundation will continue.

righty-o.

[EOTE]

83. The foundation is not his money, neither is it his childrens'.

You really have a hard time grasping that, don't you? When someone dies, they have the option of giving their money to their children or giving it away to an organization/charity of their choice. Bill Gates will be giving about .01 percent of his money to his children. The rest will go to his foundation and other charitable organizations. Understand? He's giving away more than 99% of his wealth, and he's actively encouraging other billionaires to do the same. Understand? I really can't believe you're anywhere near this dense, but you keep proving me wrong.

[Hannah Bell]

85. and his children will assume the power that running a $33-billion foundation confers.

you really don't get it, do you?

you think the point of inheritance for the super-rich is to *consume* the money personally? eating gold-plated bon-bons or something?

no, it's about power.

a private foundation gives one:

1. a tax-free investment arm
2. a tax-free policy-making, lobbying, bribery & PR arm with low oversight from governments or the public

I repeat, if gates likes the inheritance tax so much, why is he making sure his fortune won't be subject to it?

[EOTE]

86. Wow, I'd much rather have that than an actual 33 billion dollars!

I mean, with $33 billion dollars of my own, there's no way I could do anything like setup a foundation where I could have complete control of the money. And you do know that his children will have only a small amount of input as to where that money goes, right? Probably not. So once again, how will Gates ensure a family dynasty better by creating a foundation? Lemme guess, you told me already? I've answered your damn questions SEVERAL fucking times already, yet you keep asking them. You haven't answered my one fucking question. Pathetic. I'm through with you.

[Hannah Bell]

87. oooh, i'm hurt, really i am.

[EOTE]

89. And your repeated question (which I've answered a number of time)

is just insanely stupid. It's just about as sensible as asking this of a death penalty proponent: "Hey, if you support the death penalty so much, why aren't you willing to be killed by lethal injection?" Do you realize how stupid you sound by continually asking that? He supports the LAW, get it? He's honorable enough to do good things with his billions. Quite a few other billionaires aren't? Get it? He wants to make sure that more money of the extremely wealthy does NOT get passed down to their children? So please stop asking that stupid fucking question anymore, it's just really embarrassing. You're not doing yourself any favors, you're just making me wonder if you have drool dripping down your chin.

[Hannah Bell]

94. you were leaving, remember? since i'm a drooling idiot, why do you keep responding?

since it's so obvious to everyone i'm a drooling idiot.

bill gates didn't get to be the richest man in the world being a nice guy.

nothing bill does benefits anyone but him & his, except incidentally.

[EOTE]

96. You missed some.

It's quite unsightly.

[Hannah Bell]

97. you're not gone yet?

[EOTE]

84. But don't worry, I'm sure his children will have a blast with that money...

You know the money going to malaria prevention? They'll be living it up, going to all those haughty-toughty malaria fundraisers, hob knobbing it up with all the big wigs. All the while, they'll be thinking to themselves: "Boy, I sure as hell am glad that I get this rather than my dad's billions. There's no way in hell I'd be able to attend a malaria prevention party with mere billions of dollars!"

[Hannah Bell]

88. majority of that money goes to paying scientists & endowing research units to

do proprietary vaccine research -- not to help anyone except bill & his peeps.

[EOTE]

90. Wow, so you admit it.

Ahhh, I see, so Bill Gates giving away billions of dollars, part of which goes to vaccine research, is just a ploy to put money in the pockets of Bill Gates.

Lemme see if I got this right:

1) Pump billions of dollars into medical research.
2) Prevent kids in Africa from dying from malaria.
3) Profit.

Damn, it's so simple, why didn't I think of this before? Dense, dense, dense.

[Hannah Bell]

91. lol. vaccine research. proprietary. as in biotech, licenses, royalties, rising pharma profits.

you really don't get it.

btw, i thought you were leaving.

you just couldn't.

[EOTE]

93. Your conspiratorial mind cannot be reasoned with.

You've got so many odd and conflicting motivations, you can't even keep track of them yourself. You may be accustomed to people not questioning the ridiculous and sometimes hilarious things that come from you, but they don't buy your bullshit. You might want to try cracking open a non-fiction book once in a while, you might learn what constitutes a fact and realize that simply wanting to believe something really hard and getting emotional about it doesn't make it a fact.

[Hannah Bell]

99. good, go away like you said you were going to and quicherspinning.

you may at some future date come to realize that bill gates' paid press releases don't = "truth".

and most media coverage on gates is placed by gates, inc.

[EOTE]

102. Your ignorance is astounding. Mind boggling.

Yep, that's right, Bill Gates owns the New York Times. Well, he controls them anyway, with his super secret mind control ray. Which he funded, of course, with his foundation. It all goes back to Bill, all money flows back to Bill. I'm still trying to decide if your lack of knowledge is insanely funny or ungodly scary. I'm thinking a little of both.

[Hannah Bell]

106. why didn't you go? you must really be personally invested in this. perhaps you're actually bill

gates?

did you know he eats indian babies?

[EOTE]

109. Just his personal assistant.

And who do you think provides those babies?

[EOTE]

24. Oh, and here's you slamming the Estate Tax:

"the estate tax is to pick off their possible competitors & the financially clueless (i.e. geriatric farmers whose land has appreciated)."

But you support keeping it anyway?

Here's to your intense logical consistency!

I'm heading home now. Feel free to remove any other bits of info you feel stupid for having written.

[JVS]

31. You're operating on the assumption that disliking the Plutocrat implies support for the...

Petit-bourgeoisie. It is quite possible to oppose both. Pointing out that Gates may support retention of the estate tax in order to push the tax burden down the economic ladder does not commit someone to defending or supporting the interest of all those to whom that burden is shifted.

[EOTE]

45. She's saying that he's ensuring a dynasty through his charitable foundation.

That Bill Gates stands to pass on more wealth to his family through his charitable organization than simply by giving his children several billions of dollars as an inheritance. That's not only conspiratorial, that's down right stupid. I've asked her many times to explain this, but she's done nothing of the sort.

[Hannah Bell]

70. sorry you can't see it: all investments & expenditures of charitable foundations =

tax-free.

plus less of that nasty government oversight.

he's giving his children control over many, many billions & a power position. what don't you get?

[EOTE]

75. He could give that money directly to his children.

Yet he doesn't, he's giving them 10 million. What don't you get about that? You are taking the insanely stupid position that his children stand more to gain by being part of his charitable foundation rather than getting BILLIONS in inheritance. That's not just stupid, you've taken stupid to a whole other level.

[Hannah Bell]

92. you don't get it. & you're determined not to. there's something rich people have called

"trusts" as well.

income from trusts is linked to investments.

which the foundation manipulates into certain channels.

then the tax-free trusts benefit. as do the heirs.

and it's not "inheritance," because the heirs don't "own" the trust. they just get the use of it.

ingenious.

[EOTE]

95. And that's not what Gates has set up.

Not even close. Do you know how much control his children get over his foundation when he dies? Nope, of course you don't. You have no idea what he's doing with his money, you're just certain it's a huge scheme to funnel money to his children even though he's spoken out specifically how that kind of inheritance hurts the country. Daft... wouldn't begin to describe it.

[Hannah Bell]

98. you have no clue what gates has set up.

[Hannah Bell]

37. i offered no opinion at all about keeping or eliminating the estate tax.

but continue to read your own "logic" into my posts, it's typical.

[EOTE]

43. Ummm, yes you did. Multiple times.

It's not nearly as evident now considering you had multiple edits to the three posts you made prior to me making that accusation, but it's very true. You've also done nothing to explain how Bill Gates and his family will benefit financially from his foundation compared to simply him giving his children a massive inheritance. Of course you'll say you've answered this question, but you've done nothing of the sort. And you won't either.

[Hannah Bell]

63. where's that?

[EOTE]

68. I already quoted you, did you forget?

And I've asked you about 15 times now how Bill Gates will ensure his family's dynasty by giving billions of dollars to charity, you haven't even attempted to answer that. Other people on this thread have chimed in, commending me for my patience dealing with your complete lack of ability to respond to basic questions. But keep it coming, I'm sure your hatred for the man will allow you to pull SOMETHING out of your ass. Or you could just send some links showing that Bill Gates has a shit load of money. There's always that.

[Hannah Bell]

71. 1) please link. 2) i already answered, sorry you're too uninformed to get it.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[snot]

38. You are causing someone doing good work to waste their time--re- Bill Gates.

Really???

Gates puzzles me, so I haven't yet drawn firm conclusions about him; but I have NOT enjoyed the results of most of his efforts so far; while I HAVE enjoyed the results of Hannah Bell's.

[EOTE]

41. Because I don't accept completely blind accusations and total lack of logic?

If Hannah Bell would like to honestly address any of the questions I've brought up, she's more than welcome to. But because that will require not inventing completely ridiculous and impossible conspiracy theories, that's not going to happen. When you can only ascribe evil to every action a man takes, there's no convincing that person otherwise.

[Hannah Bell]

42. i've addressed them many times here at du. it ain't no conspiracy theory,

but thanks for using that standard form of dismissal.

[EOTE]

44. Then what is it. Tell me right now.

Or point to where you've explained it in the past. You're full of shit. Utterly, completely full of shit. But you're more than welcome to prove me wrong. HOW DOES GATES BENEFIT FINANCIALLY? You haven't a fucking clue.

[Vinnie From Indy]

59. You are very patient

Hannah does not appear to be rational or logical in her argument against Gates. You are absolutely correct about Gates and you provided all fair-minded readers the factual basis for your position. Hannah has responded with wild, unsupported accusations and snark.

Cheers to you!

[EOTE]

60. Thanks, I try.

And I'm certainly not someone who reflexively defends the wealthy. I tend to believe that inequality of wealth is one of the most, if not the most damaging thing to occur to our country over the past thirty years. But that doesn't mean that all wealthy are created equally. Some realize how much better they have it than most others and choose to do good works with their money. Bill Gates knows that dynasties are bad for the country and that's why his children won't become part of such a dynasty because of their inheritance. I'm sure there are issues that can be used to pick on him, but how he chooses to spend his vast fortune isn't one of them.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

52. I think people

are confusing Bill and Bill Sr. Senior gets it, Junior not so much....... :shrug:

[Vinnie From Indy]

56. You are correct

Facts are not relevant it seems to some in regard to Bill Gates. I happen to know personally that Gates is quite progressive in his views and very sincere in his desire to try and help humanity with his money.

[Citizen Worker]

62. I think you're referring to Bill Gates, Sr., not junior. Senior has toured the country with the

likes of Warren Buffett opposing the elimination of the estate tax, or as it has been called in other fora, the death tax. To the best of my knowledge Junior has not taken a public position on either side of the issue.

[EOTE]

77. No, I'm referring to Bill Gates Jr.

Bill Gates Jr. has also toured with Buffett, encouraging other billionaires to pledge to give away at least 50% of their wealth to charitable donations. I'm very well aware that Bill Gates has a dad, that's not who I'm referring to.

[Hannah Bell]

100. haha. they give their money to their own foundations, or those of their buddies.

pete peterson took the pledge: he's giving his to his own anti-social security "charitable" foundation.

using tax-free money to destroy social secutity. the billionaire's way!

[EOTE]

103. Yep, for every malaria ridden mosquito that is killed, Bill Gates gets a nickel.

For every mosquito net his foundation provides, somehow Gates manages to earn a buck. It defies all sense of logic or reason, but somehow it works. Oh, you might want to check your chin again.

[Hannah Bell]

105. gates doesn't kill mosquitoes. he does genetically-engineered vaccine research,

& he gets first dibs on all the results.

do you know how many people his clinical trials in third-world countries have killed?

[EOTE]

108. Billions. And that's just from the mutant super-mosquitos.

God only knows how many people will be killed from the hands of his genetically engineered super-apes.

[bobbolink]

11. "join the battle" For who? The muddleclass? Nope... not working against my own best interests

anymore.

*FOR* poor people? Yup, been doing that. Yet, Cenk, somehow I don't see your plea as being particularly stirring in terms of getting muddleclass people to join poor folk in the same fight. They are mostly like rich folk in that sense... they don't see beyond their own interests. Poor people? Hah.. let 'em eat cake... oh, that's right, we took away their food stamps.

Oh well....

[Capitalocracy]

55. I agree with you but let me challenge that a little bit

When he's talking about fighting for the middle class, what he means is to expand the middle class. He listed the problem as being the fact that the middle class is shrinking and the impoverished are growing, so when he says he wants to expand the middle class, he means by pulling people out of poverty.

So I agree, a lot of times when politicians talk about helping the middle class, they're ignoring the problems of the poor, or pretending the poor don't exist, or trying to perpetuate the mindset that no matter how poor you are, you're middle class, in other words, trying to eliminate the term poor and turn middle class into a euphemism for it. Which fits right into the game plan of creating a rich class and a poor class with nothing inbetween. But I don't think Cenk is doing that here, I think he's talking about the need to protect the middle class we have and bring more poor people up to that level. He probably doesn't see the problem as closely as you or I do, there's a severe class mobility problem in the U.S. and the world right now that makes it extremely easy to become poor and extremely difficult to get ahead, and Cenk still holds onto those "American Dream" ideas a little bit too closely, but I think he basically understands the problem.

At least he recognizes that they're turning the U.S. into a third-world country. I live in a third-world country and I know it's true, I see the signs that the U.S. is headed in the same direction.

[bobbolink]

66. If that is right, then his ACTIONS will show it.

I'm not holding my breath. "Progressives" have been clear that they have no further use for poor folk, teachers or unions. Yet, they want us ALL to send them big bucks and "work hard".

NOPE.

[bobbolink]

110. I no longer take things for granted, nor do I count my chickens before hatching.

NONE of these people will take poverty seriously until the rest of you push them to do so.

Period.

[laughingliberal]

17. Big K & R! nt

[OhioChick]

25. K&R n/t

[ihavenobias]

26. K & R n/t

[pleah]

27. K&R

[CherylK]

28. K & R!!!

:kick:

[Turborama]

29. K&R Thanks for posting n/t

[JVS]

30. "I'm an American. I believe. We all believe we can get to the top and enjoy the spoils of wealth."

BULL FUCKING SHIT

[KillCapitalism]

39. No kidding

In this economic climate/rigged game, the only way you're going to join the ranks of the rich is to have a winning powerball ticket.

[HughBeaumont]

111. + 37 million.

And even STILL, forces will work against you to take that money out of your hands in any way possible, whether it be attorneys, accountants, CFPs or unscrupulous relatives.

[beforeyoureyes]

32. This blog is surreal - I want to be one of them, nothing against them???

The core reason that people allow the rich to pillage from the rest of us is the phony dream of becoming ONE of them.

Let's REJECT the premise of wealth and SHARE with each other, so everyone lives modestly and well.

Weird, strange blog.

And, yeah, now the middle class are being eaten alive, but America's wealth has been made on the backs of the poor. More of us are feeling it, but a system that allows such impoverishment of so many for the benefit of a few is a system that needs to be abandoned.

We will continue to let them get away with it until we denounce the system on which it is based.

There is immorality with the possession of wealth by its very nature. Unless you are sharing the VAST majority of it, you are part of the problem.

[dajoki]

47. Agreed n/t

[JVS]

50. He is likely quite affluent. Don't mistake him for some guy who is trying to get a career going.

Uygur was born in Istanbul; he and his family immigrated to
the United States when he was eight years old.[2][3] He grew
up in East Brunswick Township, New Jersey, where he graduated
from East Brunswick High School.[4] Uygur was a registered
Republican in his youth. He is a graduate of the Wharton
School of the University of Pennsylvania, and the Columbia
University School of Law,[5] and a former associate at the law
firm of Drinker, Biddle & Reath in Washington, D.C., and
Parcher, Hayes, & Liebman in New York City. He played
rugby in college.[6]  Uygur first became a talk show host at a
Washington, D.C. radio station on the weekends while working
at Drinker, Biddle, & Heath on the weekdays. In the early
90's, he also hosted a show on a Arlington, VA public access
channel, called 'The Young Turk' that was practically the same
format and style as his current internet-based work. After a
number of years, Uygur resigned from Parcher, Hayes, &
Liebman to devote all of his efforts to radio and television
broadcasting.

- from Wikipedia

[ihavenobias]

101. He drives a 9 year old Pontiac Grand Am.

He's had it jumped 3 times in the last few months, and the other night a small fire started when it was jumped.

In other words, while http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/08/entertainment/la-et-onthemedia-20100908|the potential for future money is high>, the big money isn't there yet.

[Hannah Bell]

107. drinker, biddle & reath? oooeeeoooooooo the bullitt firm with a bullitt still in it.

(a cousin of obama's)

[Capitalocracy]

57. Here's the thing about the rich

If you got rich by creating businesses that employ people and pay them a fair wage, which would be a living wage plus, a living wage is basically a slave wage but anything over that starts to reach the category of giving people something to work for (which leaves less than a living wage as basically class warfare and theft), and you continued to expand your wealth by investing in more businesses that create more and more of these jobs, then I would say great, be as rich as you want, I love it. The problem is that people do get rich on the backs of the poor in our society, instead of getting rich by creating economic activity, creating wealth, creating decent jobs, etc.

What really gets me is how easy it would be to solve this, at least if we had a working government. All we'd have to do is say OK, you can't pay anyone less than a living wage, and you can't pay anyone less than a living wage anywhere in the world if you want to sell your products in the U.S. (along with standards for working conditions, safety, environment, etc.) Then we can let the rich get as rich as they damn well please as long as they can do it under those rules.

[20score]

33. K&R!

[Better Believe It]

34. K & R

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

35. What they do is put a black and brown face on "the poor," understanding that most Americans

react with disdain.

[Fire1]

65. And don't give a shit! n/t

[whatchamacallit]

46. What's wrong with pitchforks?

Just sayin...

[JVS]

49. Cenk went to the Wharton School of business.

He has bought into the system.

[lonestarnot]

48. Waltons and the Crotches. mmmm lunch to puke on!

[Yavin4]

51. The Rich Won The Class War Against The Poor Years Ago

When Reagan won in 1984 in a 50 state landslide, that was the turning point where the middle class was on the side of the rich in their war against the poor.

Now, it's the middle class' turn since there's nothing left to take from the poor. That's why government jobs in education, police, firefighting, etc., and middle class entitlement programs like SS and Medicare are under assault.

[Selatius]

53. Sorry, but not everybody can be rich. To believe that is to be fundamentally stupid.

In the face of limited resources, the stone cold reality of it, this blogger is going to assert that everybody in a population that is aware of this fact thinks that they can ALL be rich? How dumb is this population?

I want the shit he's smoking.

[RadicalTexan]

82. How is this not obvious to everyone?

I get tired.

High five.

[DirkGently]

54. A little thin on details, but Cenk is right on here.

[Capitalocracy]

58. To be shouted from the rooftops: "This is how you build a Third World country."

K&R

[h9socialist]

61. The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among the millions of working people and the few, who make up the employing class, have all the good things of life. Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the workers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of production, abolish the wage system, and live in harmony with the Earth.