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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-10 12:13 PM
Original message
Question about marijuana legalization
Why, if it's a miracle drug, a textile, and floor cleaner AND a dessert topping, isn't it completely and utterly legal
without any restrictions whatsoever in every other country in the world? If it's just a casualty of the fake War on Drugs
in the US, why isn't it legal without restriction in every country typically thought to be freer and more liberal than
the US, eg, Sweden, New Zealand, Denmark, France, and so forth?

I'm actually curious.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-10 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. many have folowed the leader us because we
tie things to our aid packages
we wont give money if they dont do it our way
now that the money is mostly gone i expect most to lighten up
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-10 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hemp, the miracle textile/floor cleaner/dessert topping *is* legal everywhere else.
Previous respondent is right about US using foreign aid leverage to directly influence drug policy (marijuana, not hemp) in other countries.

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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-10 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. from Answers.com....
* California allows use of marijuana as a prescription medicine, for its pain-alleviating and relaxant effects; there is a list of conditions for which it may be prescribed.
* Other areas in the USA have legalised marijuana, but the federal laws of the country trump state laws, making these state and local laws somewhat irrelevant and pointless. However, it is a cloudy issue (given the tangle of statements that is the the Bill Of Rights). Basically, a federal agent may prosecute a person breaking a federal law, but the federal government cannot force or require the state government to assist in such prosecution or investigation and so many users escape punishment.
* Marijuana in the Netherlands, contrary to popular belief, is illegal. However, the government has a policy of non-enforcement as a separation of 'soft' drugs from 'hard' ones. This involves people who have minimal amounts (5 plants or 5 grams per adult is the guideline amount) not being prosecuted or even investigated. "Coffee shops" are also often left alone, provided they have less than certain amounts on site.
* India allows its sale for some Hindu rituals. All (legal) sales are made in government-owned shops.
* Iranians use the seeds as a food, so their use this way is legal. Use as a psychoactive is illegal; however because of the large number of other herbs that are tolerated and legal, prosecution for this is rare.
* Some other countries allow personal use and some small possession only (cultivation is sometimes permitted; dealing and trafficking are invariably still illegal). They include:
*
o Argentina
o Some states in Australia
o Belgium
o Chile
o Colombia
o Croatia
o Czech Republic
o Germany - if the amount is small, any possessed plant or drugs will be confiscated, but not prosecuted.
o Macedonia
o Mexico
o Peru - possession of limited amounts is legal as long as the person does not possess any other drugs.
o Portugal
o Russia
o Spain
o Uruguay - personal use is legal but sale is not. The law does not specify an amount regarded as/as not for personal use.
o Venezuela - possession in small amounts requires a person to take a drug rehabilitation course, but no prosecution.


In many countries where it's illegal and persecuted, the main impetus is likely U.S. pressure. In others, home-grown authoritarianism is sufficient.
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FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-10 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. I beleive that Big OIL has alot to do with it
Edited on Thu Sep-16-10 12:23 PM by FirstLight
Not sure I know the details, but oil and paper people were the first to lobby against hemp/marijuana...because it threatened their profits. so there was a big propaganda thing in 1939? (not sure of the dates) and that's what did it.

I don't know about other countries, but I know we have puritanical hipocrisy down to a science here in the US...and if there's enough big corporation money to squelch something, it will happen.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-10 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Not sure I buy that at all.
It's completely legal NOWHERE. We don't hold sway over the entire world.

I am drawing a distinction between decriminalization and legalization.
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FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. check this out
"The effects of marijuana prohibition in the United States today are similar to the effects of alcohol prohibition in the United States from 1920 to 1933. Prohibition sought to achieve forced abstinence from alcohol through legal means and constitutionally banned its manufacture, sale and transport throughout the United States.

A number of social problems resulted from the Prohibition era. A profitable and violent black market for alcohol flourished. Powerful gangs corrupted law enforcement agencies, and stronger liquor surged in popularity because its potency made it more profitable to smuggle. Enforcing prohibition had an enormous price tag, and the absence of almost $500 million annual nationwide tax revenues on alcohol affected the government's financial resources. When repeal of prohibition occurred in 1933, organized crime lost nearly all of its black market alcohol profits in most states because of competition with low-priced alcohol sales at legal liquor stores.

At the end of prohibition some of the initial supporters openly admitted its failure. A quote from a letter, written in 1932 by wealthy industrialist John D. Rockefeller, Jr., states:

When Prohibition was introduced, I hoped that it would be widely supported by public opinion and the day would soon come when the evil effects of alcohol would be recognized. I have slowly and reluctantly come to believe that this has not been the result. Instead, drinking has generally increased; the speakeasy has replaced the saloon; a vast army of lawbreakers has appeared; many of our best citizens have openly ignored Prohibition; respect for the law has been greatly lessened; and crime has increased to a level never seen before.”

However, when it came to marijuana and hemp prohibition, Rockefeller took a different stance. He was a known supporter of hemp prohibition along with Harry J. Anslinger, the United States First "drug czar" and William Randolph Hearst, well known media mogul. As to be expected, Hearst sympathized with the drug czar in his war against marijuana. Hearst's paper empire, which included hundreds of acres of timber forests, was threatened by the renewable resource of hemp that could be re-grown yearly, unlike Hearst's timber. In his newspapers, Hearst published many of Anslinger’s fabricated stories, aiding the anti-marijuana movement that eventually led to its prohibition in the 1937 Marihuana Tax Act (Wikipedia). Rockefeller had his interests in oil, and after founding Standard Oil in 1870, soared to become the first U.S. dollar billionaire, and Standard Oil was even convicted of monopolistic practices and broken up in 1911. There seems no way that hemp could have had a chance when the media, the government, and the oil industry were swiftly making little room for hemp to survive."

from http://www.sustainablehemp.net/prohibition.php

and yes, the US holds sway over lots of countries in that we won't assist them if they don't mirror our laws. Not to mention the fact we have becoome such a petroleum-based planet, we almost don't know HOW to make stuff any other way...paper, plastic, etc...all is tied into profits.


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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Why draw that distinction? Decriminalization is de facto legalization.
If you are not going to see punishment for doing something, it is legal to do it. There are still states where it is 'illegal' to commit adultery, but as nobody ever is punished (except by the press and the spouse) it is effectively legal.

Making cannabis ILLEGAL is a very recent development and a sign of the power of western culture. In fact, before the turn of the last century virtually no drug use anywhere was illegal. The illegality of drug use is a direct product of first the British Empire, then the American Empire, and the countries they influenced. Even countries not directly occupied by either sought the good graces of the empires by cooperating in making the drugs illegal.

Now, there are places of authoritarian rule, and always have been, that have individually made such things illegal - smoking tobacco was a death-penalty offense in Czarist Russia at one time - but the general state of things since the birth of civilization was the legality of drugs. A hundred and fifty years ago, I don't think you'd find a single country where marijuana was illegal, and it's been around for at least 5000 years, judging by remains found in Scythian graves from 3000BCE.

So the REAL question is, why is it illegal NOW?
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-10 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. There is a big difference in marijuana and industrial hemp. However, it is
fear of marijuana that deprives us of the benefits of industrial hemp.
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