Full Transcripts of Obama "mocking" Liberals

[USArmyParatrooper]

http://www.acorn-online.com/joomla15/greenwich-post/news/local/70736-remarks-by-president-obama-at-last-nights-fundraiser-in-greenwich.html

So we are going to be in some tough fights everywhere, and all of you are going to be desperately needed in order for us to keep moving in a positive direction.

Now, the second reason I'm telling you this is because Democrats, just congenitally, tend to get -- to see the glass as half empty. (Laughter.) If we get an historic health care bill passed -- oh, well, the public option wasn’t there. If you get the financial reform bill passed -- then, well, I don't know about this particularly derivatives rule, I'm not sure that I'm satisfied with that. And gosh, we haven’t yet brought about world peace and -- (laughter.) I thought that was going to happen quicker. (Laughter.) You know who you are. (Laughter.)

Based on the full transcript am I expecting Obama critics on DU to change their minds? Of course not. But I interpret this very differently and it's worth sharing a different perspective.

Notice he said Democrats, not Liberals. Obama is a Democrat himself and he was addressing fellow Democrats at a Democratic fundraiser. He said YOU know who YOU are - directing that at the people he was talking to. It was a friendly jab at them, not members of DU with little beaver avatars.

I interpret it to mean, "Guys, I know we Democrats have high expectations but everything is an uphill battle but we've still gotten a lot done - and we still have a lot to do. Help me out here." That's the way I read it and I find it extraordinarily unlikely that Obama - who is undeniably a very intelligent man would blatantly flip his base the finger.

[janx]

1. A bit of context is an amazing thing,

no?

[USArmyParatrooper]

7. Yep, and was omitting, "Now, the second reason I'm telling you this is because" really an accident?

For crying out loud they didn't just remove the relevant context from the previous paragraph. They cut his sentence in half.

If they had shown, "Now, the second reason I'm telling you this is because" makes people curious what he's talking about. I mean, what was the first reason he was telling them this?

I fully respect Obama critics who are sincere, but I just don't take a lot of them seriously.

[janx]

14. No, it wasn't an accident.

Sensational media have been doing this for a long time. Pulling material out-of-context and using it unfavorably must be a requirement in Politics/Media 101. ;-)

[EstimatedProphet]

2. Prediction: this will fall on deaf ears

[Gman]

3. Never mind

[Subdivisions]

10. If you are talking to the OP, you might want to read what he says. n/t

[Tx4obama]

4. How about...

How about everyone focusing on the important things that Obama said in the speech instead of only a joke he told.

To USArmyParatrooper: I see nothing wrong at all with what Obama said, because what he said is true - every time he gets something accomplished 'some' democrats whine about it not being good enough ;)
I wish we had more democrats applauding Obama for the things he is getting done more often than we do now ;(
It's amazing that he is getting anything done at all with all the republican obstruction he has to deal with!

[walldude]

128. How about Obama just sticks to policy instead of

making thinly veiled jabs at the people in his own party? How fucking hard is it to just shut up? Is it really necessary to keep taking pokes at fellow Democrats for criticizing policies that they disagree with?

[golddigger]

5. Yep, the healthcare bill is so great they are

campaigning on it. Historic victory right?

[Sheepshank]

20. Imainge taking away the clause that disallows a cecellation based on preexisting conditions

...as Huckabee would like to see happen.....some Dems have no idea what they are ignoring.

[RandomThoughts]

6. Best to say help out the American people.

Not about helping out a person. At least by the way they have not corrected wrong done to me.

I do think he is fighting for many better ideas.

But explain why he has not corrected my issues? And I posted long ago that he did not support the public option because he wanted to keep a promise he made when they negotiated that away before he knew what was really possible.

:shrug:


Side note, some think someone like me only starts fighting when injustice is done to them. Note that injustice was done to me when I was fighting for injustice done to someone else, so that does not apply to me. What the situation did do, is let me see a clear target of where the injustice was coming from. I fought against injustice my entire life, as best that I could see it. However in the early years of the century something was unleashed on society that made it tougher for people that fight against injustice.

[USArmyParatrooper]

12. The point of this thread is he did not "mock" anyone. But I'll address your reasonable points.

In my paraphrasing I said, "me" (my words, not Obama) but just as well "Help US out here" to get things done. It was a fundraiser, remember?

What are your issues?

Saying Obama did not support the Public Option is just not true. Thanks to a select few Democrats (and Lieberman) in Congress we just didn't have the votes for a Public Option. I have absolutely no doubt Obama saw it as a major blow. In my opinion he was downplaying the defeat - playing politics to get passed what they could get.

As for your last paragraph, I'm not following.

[JDPriestly]

134. The problem is that a glass half full IS also half empty.

If you look at a large tray of glasses of really important things, and all of them are just half full. Maybe only one or two are truly filled to the top, then you see a pattern -- glasses half full, glasses half empty. Regardless of the way you look at it, very, very few glasses are full.

I would start with the lack of prosecutions for fraud in the securities industry, torture and clearly illegal wiretapping. Those are glasses that Obama could have instructed his attorney general to fill. He did not.

When it comes to legislation, Obama should have been more forthright about the fact that the legislation glasses are only half full.

As it is, he is giving many of us the impression that while he plays lip service to filling the glasses all the way up, that's all it is. In reality, we see before us one half-full glass after the other. It's the pattern of jobs half done that is so troubling.

We had enough of that with Bush. The Iraq War was wrong and immoral, but if he was going in, he should have at least supported the Iraqi people and our troops with enough personnel to establish the peace without years and years of war. That was a glass half full. While most of us would have preferred not to have the Iraq WAr glass on the table, I have to say that glass is still half full.

There is a pattern. Say you really want to do something and then do a halfway job at achieving your goal.

And, we see that pattern playing itself out again with Social Security. Obama says he supports Social Security -- but he fixed the Cat Food Commission so that Social Security is on the table -- and very likely to be given away in negotiations with greedy right-wingers who prefer tax cuts for themselves to taking care of senior citizens.

So, the glass half full bit is beginning to look like a strategy to appease people. You just give the appearance of trying to fill the glass. Interestingly, it is the really essential stuff like the public option (which would have kept costs down) and the derivatives provisions that are missing from the half-empty glasses. It's like making a chocolate soda and leaving out the chocolate -- not that good, I assure you. So, Obama's argument about how you see the glasses -- half-full or half-empty does not work with me.

It's not a matter of one or a few half-full glasses. It's a whole table full of half-full glasses. And that's what is bothering so many of us.

[JDPriestly]

142. Let's take the example of Lieberman.

And let's assume that Obama honestly wanted a public option.

What price did Lieberman pay for not supporting Obama's preference for the public option?

We who wanted the public option, including those of us who really need the public option, are paying a price for the fact that Lieberman did not support it. In fact, every tax payer in American will pay a huge price for the fact that Lieberman did not support a public option.

So, Lieberman got a full glass on that one -- and we got either a half-full or maybe for many of us an empty glass on that one.

That pattern repeated itself over and over and over and over with the Obama administration. Ben Nelson, Landrieu, all the folks who are not team players got to do whatever they wanted -- no questions asked, no price to pay.

It's those of us who got out and worked for Obama and supported the ideas he ran on that are paying the price.

That's why I'm not enthusiastic about Obama. And he does not apologize to us for his failure to do what is right. And he does not apologize to us for the fact that so many of us are paying the price -- in foreclosures, in overly expensive health insurance premiums, while he compromises without imposing any price for his compromises on those who refuse to support him.

Sorry. Obama has to decide whose side he is on. If you don't play with the team, you don't get free ice cream after the game is over.

Yet we are the ones left on the sidelines with no ice cream. Even though I wanted the public option, I have supported Obama's health care plan. There are moral issues -- like torture -- like the fraud on Wall Street and the securities industry that should have been prosecuted. Those are items on which I really cannot compromise. Those are moral issues.

Sorry. When fat cats on Wall Street through nefarious schemes steal the homes out from under honest people, that's not a glass half full, that's a glass half-full of poison. Obama had the authority to at least make it uncomfortable for the thieves on Wall Street and he refused to do so. Shame on him. He needs to do better in the next two years.

[Pirate Smile]

8. OK. Who predicted something like this would be blown up as soon as Obama announced Elizabeth

Warren's new position in the Administration? I know somebody had to call this. Totally predictable.

No credit given - hey, look, new shiny outrage! Cue the outrage!

[Subdivisions]

9. K&R. n/t

[HughMoran]

11. Obama was right on with these comments

:thumbsup:

[Scurrilous]

13. Thanks USAP.

K & R :thumbsup:

[SeattleGirl]

15. Yep, telling the whole story certainly turns it into a different

story than the one being promoted here previously.

Thanks! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Arkana]

16. Democrats DO see the glass as half-empty--that's why we continue to try

and make things better all the time.

Obama didn't say anything that wasn't true and he wasn't "insulting" anyone. Jesus Christ.

[defendandprotect]

183. Every nation has universal health care BUT USA.... and that's an imaginary "glass half full"...????

That's an insult to the intelligence of everyone here!

[JNelson6563]

17. Nice work. Again.

I like the way you cut right through the bullshit. You are truly a bane to the shit flinging monkeys around here (you know who you are). :-)

Julie

[USArmyParatrooper]

18. "you know who you are" lol! +1

[janx]

19. Oh, no!

:wow: :scared:

There it is again! :tinfoilhat: "You know who you are." :scared:

He's talking about me, isn't he Julie? I think he's talking about US! About ME! :tinfoilhat:


:rofl:

[madfloridian]

156. He is ridiculing those who question instead of falling in line.

There has been too much of that through the years.

[madfloridian]

153. Julie, I know who I am.

And I know the things I stand for. Hubby and I worked hard for him here, though I did not like his stance on education.

I did not think he would carry it so far.

He was speaking to people who can afford 30,000 for a dinner....and they joined him in the laughter toward those who felt marginalized and left out.

Just like it has been for years.

[JNelson6563]

174. I didn't see education even mentioned.

I realize it is your key issue and it's an important one.

As to the topic at hand....

What the President was saying is that nothing will ever be good enough for some. I should think you understand, as I do, that we have made progress on some of the issues mentioned and I am unaware of anyone claiming perfection has been achieved. Yet every day there is nothing but criticism from certain sources.

I have worked too hard for too long to not appreciate the progress we've made. I waited a really long time for this and I celebrate each inch of progress made. I will never join the ranks of those who live to criticize or search tirelessly for something to take issue with.

Julie

[madfloridian]

178. "those who live to criticize or search tirelessly for something to take issue with."

wow

[JNelson6563]

179. I know, right?

On a board called Democratic Underground we have such posters. I find it hard to believe too.

Good to see you old friend, hope it's all good in your world.

Cheers,
Julie

[golddigger]

21. I know. Man the way some people act around here

you think he showed a video of himself in the Oval Office looking under every piece of furniture saying, I know that Public Option is around here somewhere.

[ProSense]

24. Let me guess:

your point is that lying about another country having WMD, starting an illegal war and then joking about it is the same as this:

"If we get an historic health care bill passed -- oh, well, the public option wasn’t there. If you get the financial reform bill passed -- then, well, I don't know about this particularly derivatives rule, I'm not sure that I'm satisfied with that. "

[WillyT]

22. Dude... It's A Woodchuck

:evilgrin:

[progressoid]

103. Ha!

:spray: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Ozymanithrax]

23. Taking comments out of context is an effective tactic on the right...

way not to discuss a topic.

Context is everything. No one should be so agenda driven as to delete important material from a comment.

[janx]

26. It's less agenda driven than it is $$$ driven. n/t

[Ozymanithrax]

29. Who on the left would make money from misquoting the President...

and spreading dissension through the rank and file?

[janx]

35. The media want to make money, Ozy.

Most media don't give a damn about ideology, although in truth I don't know about the various bloggers out there. And media like NPR and News Hour tend to present facts.

There are bloggers who crave attention and have their various axes to grind (pardon the cliche). Then there are sites who want you to see their advertisers. IF they can spread enough dissent, just enough, to generate hits to their sites, they make more money, because they charge according to the number of hits they get.

And then there are the sites that are funded by others who want to spread a message.

Healthy skepticism is a good thing regarding where our information comes from--not paranoia, but reasonable and critical skepticism.

On a more commercial scale, let's use MSNBC as an example. In the lead-up to the Iraq War, that cable network was pro-war all the time. "Shock n' Awe," etc. I remember seeing pictures of Hussein's sons' dead bodies, post-autopsy, while eating my dinner; their chests had been incised and stitched and their eyelids sewn shut. There was no Keith Olbermann. There was no Rachel Maddow. Those people appeared only when it was economically safe--when U.S. opinion changed enough to warrant presenting them. Then viewers thought, "Gawddammit, YEAH, Keith!" and "Isn't Rachel clever?"...

[Ozymanithrax]

36. The media, in this case, were not taking the comments out of context.

We were discussing liberals here doing that, or being too lazy to actually check out the source of something.

[janx]

38. I misunderstood you and am sorry for that.

:hug:

I'm just so frustrated about people who don't care about where information comes from.

[Ozymanithrax]

44. I most cases, about 5 minutes of research will reveal the truth.

Too few people are willing to burn that 5 minutes.

[janx]

50. My sarcasm detector wasn't working...

:rofl:

It's usually perky, but I've had a long work week.

[izzybeans]

27. I think it's time to recognize its also the subject of the naive members of the left.

For whatever reason, there are a lot of people on this forum who fall for this shit hook line and sinker every time. It's made it very hard to make legitimate critiques of the president and very hard to keep our tenuous coalition together to what will be the most crucial election - this november.

99.9% of us here mean well. Some of us, however, have taken our distrust of "the man" so far that we will believe any decontextualized smear and half-truth of our allies in power. Some big points of criticism of our President (points he seems to be welcoming) have been buried by nonsense and all of the positive things are barely given recognition.

This is a prime example.

[Ozymanithrax]

28. I think you are far more gracious than I...

and correct.

[EFerrari]

45. LOL. Exactly. When the president and his administration habitually knock the left

and people rationalize it over and over and over, you have to suspect really bad reading or an extreme willingness to overlook the obvious. This is a prime example.

[defendandprotect]

185. Old saying: "You can't wake up a man pretending to be asleep" ....!!

[defendandprotect]

184. If you don't "mistrust" DLC-Rahm and Obama's Wall Street team ....

or the fact that Obama/Baucus were heavily sponsored by the health care industry ....

then you need your BS meter turned waaaay up --

Try this one for "mistrust" ....

Ramh .... crowing about preserving "private health care industry" ... business s/b grateful!

”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be gratefulfor his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system; the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18...

This was posted by another DU poster 8/12/10

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ozymanithrax]

46. Mockery must be in the eye of the beholder...

I simply don't read it that way, as it is in the OP. Leaving off that first paragraph and half of the Sentence in the second changes the way it is reads in a fundamental way.

[Mojorabbit]

106. I am just coming to this now but

I disagree. The public option was the heart of health care reform and a promise he made which he broke and now is acting like it was nothing. I don't find it funny.

[Ozymanithrax]

108. The Public Option would never have passed the Senate.

Elect a better more liberal Senate, and maybe we can get that.

[Mojorabbit]

126. There was never a full court press to get it to pass. nt

[Ozymanithrax]

146. That was your belief...I remember the Republicans.

The bill that passed was the best that could with the makeup of the Senate. The answer is to elect more and better Democrats, not decapitate ourselves.

[defendandprotect]

187. Good ... let's start with 2012 -- we need a liberal/progressive presidential candidate -- !!

I also remember the health care industry lobbyists --

and the huge sums passed on as "campaign financing" to both Baucus and Obama.

They're among the highest "sponsored" by the health care industry!!

And the secret and back room deals are still stinking!!

[defendandprotect]

186. Exactly ... and the "exhalted" Baucus Committee was the log jam ....liberal Dems in Congress wanted

public option -- it had to be blocked and the Committee was the way to do it --

Obama/Baucus two of the most heavily "sponsored" elected officials by health care

industry!!

Sponsored is a euphemism for bribery --

[USArmyParatrooper]

48. Yeah yeah and I guess completing the sentence that was cut in half doesn't either.

Getting any health care reform passed was a monstrous undertaking. The votes weren't there for a public option and it wasn't just a defeat for citizens who wanted it. It was also a defeat for those in Congress who wanted one and YES it was also a defeat for President Obama. They were still able to get through a great deal of important reforms. They took what they could get. Only in wacko land does that equate to President Obama being against the public option.

"Showing the previous paragraphs does not delete the next one."

Oh well gee in that case then they should have had no problem posting the previous paragraph and for crying out loud at least his complete sentence.... right?

[Control-Z]

92. Is there another thread

I should have read before this one?

[janx]

52. At DU, most of us expect readers to read the whole of what

is posted by clicking the link. ;-)

This is Democratic Underground.

[grace0418]

25. The folks getting their panties in a twist are pretty much proving his point.

Some people need to relax.

[tammywammy]

30. +1 n/t

[canetoad]

31. k & r

USAP, thank you for setting the record straight.

[MadHound]

32. That's your interpretation,

That's fine, but a lot of people don't see it that same way, and for good reason. Obama has already flipped off several components of this Big Tent base of his, teachers, the LGBT community, anti-war folks, HCR, that was a big one. So don't presume to judge until you've walked a mile in the shoes, OK.

[janx]

37. No, MadHound, that is the transcript.

There is a great difference between fact and opinion, between what was said in full context and what someone thought about part of what was said.

So I must disagree with you strongly. There are too many people who don't recognize the difference between fact and opinion and who don't know how to find sources of information, which is doubly hard in this crazed "information" age.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[USArmyParatrooper]

53. You try way too hard. It's really transparent.

Two quintessential metaphors for achieving the impossible are "creating world peace" and "ending world hunger."

Example, "You're going to try to have that engine rebuilt by Tuesday? Why don't you just create world peace while you're at it."

But of course you already knew that.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[USArmyParatrooper]

61. No, I did not say that at all.

The previous paragraph (along with the rest of the sentence that were - for some strange reason - cut off) along with the previous paragraph add relevant context to the meaning of what he said.

The part of the sentence that was removed, "Now, the second reason I'm telling you this is because"

What is the "this" referring to? The previous paragraph where he explains there's are many tough fights still ahead.

The point of the context is mutually exclusive from the meaning of the metaphor 'bringing about world peace' You made two separate accusations and I addressed both.

[G_j]

74. so what? It's not funny!

or something to ever be taken lightly, especially by the president.

[Time for change]

158. Absolutely

I find it highly insulting to all people who really care about thses issues. For example, the health care bill was greatly weakened by taking out the public option (which Obama campaigned on). That was the only aspect of the bill that provided a means of competition with the the health insurance industry. In place of that, some regulations were put on the health insurance industry. So what do they do? They promptly come out with substantial increases in their premiums, which the good majority of Americans are mandated to purchase. This "reform" was supposed to make health care more affordable, and the first thing that happens is that the insurance industry raises their prices (on a product that Americans are mandated to purchase). And he jokes about it, as if caving in to the insurance industry and letting the public option go represents a mere mild imperfection in the bill.

And the same can be said about the financial "reform", which was in general a cave in to Wall Street. And that's part of his joke too. I'll give that speech an A for political cunning, a D for honesty, and another D for the respect it shows to people who really care about these issues.

[MadHound]

43. Ah, I see you really don't give a damn about the wars ending then,

Just so long as there is no criticism of your president.

[janx]

47. That's a fallacious assumption, MadHound.

I just want people to find original sources of information so they can judge for themselves--instead of making assumptions based on some out-of-context quotes.

The media did the same thing to Howard Dean when I was volunteering and contributing to that campaign.

[G_j]

49. you are making the assumptions

that the people you disagree with, don't find original sources of information. That is more than an assumption, it's an insult.
I'd also wager you are mostly wrong.

[janx]

57. Nope.

You have it backwards. It's an observation, not an assumption. I don't choose a group of people to disagree with and then find reasons for doing so; I disagree if I think someone's logic or method of obtaining information is flawed.

[G_j]

63. nice try

but to come to a conclusion that another is not searching the original source, is an assumption, unless of course they are your roommate and you are looking over their shoulder.

[USArmyParatrooper]

72. You're just mad that his assumption was right.

This thread is the first time you actually read the full context (more likely only the part I posted).

FACT

[janx]

76. When I see people basing opinions on biased sources

who use quotations out of context, I become concerned.

_______________________________________________

"unless of course they are your roommate and you are looking over their shoulder."

:rofl: pronoun use

I'm 52 years old and have no roommate... :rofl:

Please don't make assumptions. A big world lurks out there.

[MadHound]

51. You're assuming I'm an idiot then

This little tidbit of news has been out there for a few hours now. You don't think that we're capable of finding the full transcript on our own, with no prompting from the OP, you or anybody else, and that we are incapable to come to our own logical, rational conclusion?

How very demeaning and patronizing of you. Not surprising, but damn demeaning and patronizing.

[USArmyParatrooper]

55. Incapable of finding the full transcript? No. Disinterested? Absolutely.

You found something that satisfies your narrative were content to stop right there. Even when faced with the context that obviously shows he wasn't mocking anyone, you refuse to stray from your narrative.

Barack Obama is the ONLY politician I have ever seen, let alone President who has stopped what he was doing to respectfully address protesters who were *criticizing* him. Hell, he's even thanked protesters at least once that I can remember.

So is it your contention that President Obama is stupid or is that he's disinterested in winning elections for himself and his party? It *MUST* be one or the other if you're claiming he blatantly ridiculed progressives.

Sorry, as much as you try to fit that square block into a round hole it's not going to fit.

[G_j]

58. "obviously shows he wasn't mocking anyone"

obviously???

I read the whole damn thing too!

I also read your interpretation.

I don't agree. I think the mocking tone is obvious.
Do you still insist that I am an idiot because I don't agree with you?

[USArmyParatrooper]

66. Oh, reeeaaalllly......

"So we are going to be in some tough fights everywhere, and all of you are going to be desperately needed in order for us to keep moving in a positive direction."

Now, the second reason I'm telling you this is because.... (Que "MOCKING" according to you.)

How does "mocking" fit into THIS that he is telling them, "So we are going to be in some tough fights everywhere, and all of you are going to be desperately needed in order for us to keep moving in a positive direction."?

[G_j]

70. yes, reeeaaalllly....

how many drone attacks in the last month?
I don't see a positive direction there.

[USArmyParatrooper]

71. Is this the part where I'm not supposed to notice you completely dodged the question?

"So we are going to be in some tough fights everywhere, and all of you are going to be desperately needed in order for us to keep moving in a positive direction."

Now, the second reason I'm telling you this is because.... (Que "MOCKING" according to you.)

How does "mocking" fit into THIS that he is telling them, "So we are going to be in some tough fights everywhere, and all of you are going to be desperately needed in order for us to keep moving in a positive direction."?

[G_j]

80. so he contradicts himself in tone

not surprising. His inspirational talk of hard fights could very well be seen as campaigning. The later, mocking the left.

[defendandprotect]

157. When people are "desperately needed" they are acknowledged and respected ....

Let's not pretend that this is the first time -- we still have

Rahm's "f-ing retards" -- and Gibbs comments --

but overall we have the pattern and the agenda --

And here it is . . .

Here is the quote: ”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry;[] the fact that the overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system; the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18...

[MadHound]

60. Again, it is your interpretation

You said it yourself, "That's the way I read it. . ." We can't all be rude boy beavers sticking our ass into everybody's face as way of introduction, so since that is the case, we will be interpreting Obama's words and actions differently.

For teachers, it seems like the attack on them has been redoubled under Obama. Flipping the finger you might say.

The LGBT community truly came through for Obama in '08, only to have Rick Warren doing the kickoff to the inauguration and DADT still in place. Looks like another flipped finger from that seat.

As does it look from the anti-war POV, as we draw down, but not out, in one war, only to double down a couple of times in another illegal, immoral war.

Your opinion is just that, yours. It isn't automatically right because the world looks different to different people in different situations. If you don't get that, then you're missing out on a lot.

[USArmyParatrooper]

64. Ok, since you *honestly* interpret that way answer me this.

"So we are going to be in some tough fights everywhere, and all of you are going to be desperately needed in order for us to keep moving in a positive direction."

Now, the second reason I'm telling you this is because.... (Que "MOCKING" according to you.)

How does "mocking" fit into THIS that he is telling them, "So we are going to be in some tough fights everywhere, and all of you are going to be desperately needed in order for us to keep moving in a positive direction."?

Edit: and you never did answer whether you think Obama is stupid or that he just doesn't want himself or the Democrats in Congress to win.

[MadHound]

73. Again, this is all about interpretation,

From where you sit, for whatever reason, you find this to be a fine speech. From where I and many others sit, it comes off as mocking. You aren't going to change your mind, nor am I going to change mine. You don't like that, oh well. There it is, you can blow and bluster all you want, but you can't change that simple fact.

I'm certain that Obama is intelligent, that is one of the refreshing things about him. Why is he saying this, I don't know, why does any politician say any boneheaded thing? But it's out there, there will be responses to it, and it will have some sort of impact. Will it cost him the election, no. But little shit like this has a way of adding up, and given Obama's track record with much of his base, little shit is adding up quick.

[USArmyParatrooper]

77. Supposedly in full context it looks like "mocking" - and yet you can't even answer a simple question

"So we are going to be in some tough fights everywhere, and all of you are going to be desperately needed in order for us to keep moving in a positive direction."

Now, the second reason I'm telling you this is because.... (Que "MOCKING" according to you.)

How does "mocking" fit into THIS that he is telling them, "So we are going to be in some tough fights everywhere, and all of you are going to be desperately needed in order for us to keep moving in a positive direction."?

[MadHound]

81. Do you have some sort of posting tourette syndrom?

Because I've already responded to this very same post, yet you are repeating yourself.

Oh, wait, nevermind, I get it now, you have nothing new to add to the conversation. Well, it is getting late, and I need to be up early. Good night:hi:

[unapatriciated]

155. Could it be that those in attendance and who he was speaking to agree with his polices?

and the second paragraph was just a little joke at the expense of those who don't agree. Like teachers, unions, nurses, gays to name a few.
Maybe it is just that simple. I'm just working class grew up in a working class union family but I know an insult when I hear or read one, a dismissive one at that.

Paragraph two was not needed to make the point of what we face and the importance of moving forward.

[unapatriciated]

148. Well that's the first thing I do.

I want to know context before I judge and I'm still offended by what he said. I'm was also saddened by the fact that he still believes he is on the right tract regarding education and financial reform. I saw no reason for what he said except for to tell those of us who disagree with his policies, that he thinks we are whiners. Paragraph one was to list all of his accomplishments and paragraph two was to say those that don't see all the great works he has done are just whiners. The bottom line is, we are told constructive criticism is ok but don't you dare think you are important enough to actually listen to.

[janx]

62. I'm making no assumptions at all, let alone that you are an idiot.

But I am asking you to look at things in context and to honestly evaluate your sources of information. I don't enjoy seeing anyone manipulated and scared.

[MadHound]

65. "Manipulated and scared?"

You're simply not making the case for yourself if you're assuming I'm either manipulated or scared. Rather it comes from lots of experience and seeing politics up close for far too long.

[USArmyParatrooper]

67. And let me guess

When you read the chopped version you said, "He said that?? Wait, maybe that was out of context" and immediately went and looked it up yourself prior to ranting about it on DU.

Oh, wait. Nevermind this thread is the first place you read the full context.

[MadHound]

75. And you know what they say about ass u me

Wait, never mind, I'm talking with somebody who likes to stick their avatar ass in everybody's face.

[USArmyParatrooper]

79. Do you deny it?

[MadHound]

82. Look, it's getting late, I'm moving on to bed, and I've already answered this question as well

Granted, I didn't post it to you as well, but try looking around at my other posts here, you'll find what you're looking for.

[janx]

69. I'm not trying to make a case for myself.

I'm trying to make a case for you.

[MadHound]

78. No, you are trying to fit me into your own little cosmology and using assumptions to do so

You are assuming that I'm not intelligent, that I haven't already read the full text of this, and that somehow I'm being either scared or manipulated.

All of these assumptions of yours are wrong. And again, you are continuing to make a poor case for yourself. Or for me for that matter.

[janx]

84. I don't have a little cosmology. I have a very big cosmology! n/t

[POAS]

105. And it is constantly expanding.... n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

33. None of this really matters, because Jane HamPster & Mr. Greenwald told me...

that Obama sucks. So there. :P I am so sick of the perpetual victimhood displayed by the professional left, I could just :puke:

[G_j]

34. And "gosh, we haven’t yet brought about world peace and -- (laughter.)

that is funny?

The Nobel Peace Prize was a real laugh too..

[EFerrari]

40. World peace, always a huge laugh line. n/t

[G_j]

42. almost expected a Kumbiya reference... nt

[liberation]

122. WTF, nothing about wanting ponies???? I am disappointed!

Oh, well... a Nobel Peace winner thinking world peace is something funny seems to be perfectly sensible thing to say. Apparently.

However, I am loving the compounded "irony" of a thread revolving about a very particular interpretation of president Obama not mocking anyone used as an excuse to... openly mock liberals. You just can't make this stuff up.

These "moderate" circle jerks with so many strawmen seem to be fire hazards more than anything. Which would be fine, if it weren't for the tons of red herrings added to the mix, which create a fairly fishy stench. Bleg...

[Whisp]

86. so now besides single payer health care (which was never on the list) you..

are disappointed that Obama has not yet achieved world peace.

now THAT is funny.

[G_j]

87. you know what is frustrating?

deliberate obtuseness.

[defendandprotect]

143. The "list" ....?? 76%+ of the public wanted single payer/government run health care ...

and the numbers were still growing as universal health care was showed down

the sewer by the corporates in this administration!

Where does your denial get you, except having to deny even more?

What is "funny" is Obama having to make such exaggerations about World Peace--

and we saw this previously with other Gibbs/WH comments about liberals wanting

to end the military.

They make these exaggerations to contrast with the little they have done --

and let me correct that, to balance the harm they've done.

[defendandprotect]

133. +1000% ---

and Obama has kept MIC/Iraq/Afghanistan going full steam --

on top of Bush's having doubled MIC!!

[backscatter712]

54. The Marvins will continue the pearl-clutching. Can't have unity or positive attitudes here, nosirree

I'm sure they'll coordinate their bashing by tomorrow...

[Capitalocracy]

59. Anyone want to explain to me

how this context changes anything?

[USArmyParatrooper]

68. It was clearly explained in the OP

Although those who WANT to believe Obama is "mocking" them will be as confused as you are.

[G_j]

83. you are incredibly condescending

one might even say, arrogant, but I suppose that's OK because you are superior.

[TheWatcher]

89. "one might even say, arrogant, but I suppose that's OK because you are superior."

You misspelled ignorant and deluded.

:hi:

[Binka]

85. Oh For Fuck Sake

Done with you. You are gone from my DU. Oh so much better. I love ignore.

[POAS]

96. Your loss, if your reading this then

I must not be on your list as yet, will you please correct that error.

[Capitalocracy]

88. Gee, I read the OP

guess Rahm was right about me

[EFerrari]

114. The OP explains these remarks as humor that pokes fun among friends, Democrats

except the joke is aimed at the left, at liberals, not at the attendees. It's a pretty common device in comedy.

And of course it's aimed at liberals, not at $30K a plate donors. I don't know any large numbers of centrists that spend a lot of time advocating for peace, financial reform or universal health care, do you?

It would be hilarious to read all these "oh, thank you for the context" remarks if it weren't so sad. Either people have no idea what "context" means or they are desparate for Obama not to be making fun of them. As someone else put it this morning, he's only talking about "the left" not the left, so it's okay. Amazing pretzel twisting.

The Obama White House needs to suspend it's semi-weekly slams at liberals until after the election. Our turn out is already minus a lot of young people and minorities. Can we please not knock anyone in our coalition at least until the polls close, please?

[defendandprotect]

150. Agree -- and, of course, there is precedent for these comments ...

comments which we have seen in FULL context --

It's really pitiful that Obama has to do a comedy performance knocking the left

for elites!!

[Cha]

99. No, you're not "condescending" ...you're

just telling it like it is.

[defendandprotect]

145. Yes ... we who voted for Obama are anxious to see him "mocking" us ....!!!

[EFerrari]

112. Nope because it doesn't.

LOL

[defendandprotect]

144. I'm trying to figure out what it's in reply to ... presume there was an other report today...

and I'm looking for it--

[Hekate]

90. Kick. Rec. Thank you for facts, transcripts, context. Too many people have lost their sense of humor

... along with their perspective.

Hekate

[proteus_lives]

91. Thanks for all the facts.

[rucky]

93. +1. I'm on the receiving end of this and do not take offense. n/t

[NJmaverick]

94. K&R

[MineralMan]

95. Kicked and recommended for providing the entire context.

100 points removed from the house of those who didn't.

[firedupdem]

97. K&R

[Peacetrain]

98. K&R well written and much appreciated..

[ecstatic]

100. This shouldn't have to be spelled out to grown adults

I caught the lie yesterday, but didn't feel like wasting time stating the obvious. K&R anyway

[progressoid]

101. What if I'm a LIBERAL AND a DEMOCRAT but NO Beaver avatar?

This is so confusing.

[janx]

102. Then you belong in a different category.

Because everybody has to be in a box! Then again, you could just give in and adopt the beaver and display it proudly. ;-)

[USArmyParatrooper]

115. "you could just give in and adopt the beaver and display it proudly."

I did!

[Spazito]

104. It's good to see what was said by the President in full context instead...

of the cherry-picked version that has been used elsewhere.

Recommended.

[tandot]

107. K & R

[G_j]

109. can you imagine if he had said:

And gosh, we haven't yet brought about an end to genocide or sex slavery and -- (laughter.) I thought that was going to happen quicker. (Laughter.)

actual quote:

"And gosh, we haven't yet brought about world peace and -- (laughter.) I thought that was going to happen quicker." (Laughter.)


Obviously, the idea of world peace is funny.

[USArmyParatrooper]

111. No, I can't imagine if he had said that.

Because it's not a common expression. Bringing about "world peace" is a common expression for achieving the impossible.

"You're going to get Bob to give you a day off? Why don't you bring about world peace while you're at it?"

Stop pretending like you're outraged.

[G_j]

113. sorry to disappoint

but I'm not pretending.
:think:

[scheming daemons]

188. Then you're proving Obama's point.... you're acting like a petulant 4-year-old

It's ok for you to spend 20 months tearing at the President continuously, and when he makes one off-handed comment calling you out for it, you go into full outrage mode.


Grow up.

[azmouse]

110. Thank you for the true statement.

:thumbsup:

[DireStrike]

116. IMO the context doesn't change it very much.

It's still a ridiculous straw man to mention public option and derivatives reform in the same breath as world peace.

[USArmyParatrooper]

117. I'm shocked.

Ok, Ok, you're right. President Obama was mocking you. MOCKING you. You should be very angry and post an 'I hate Obama' thread right now. In fact, you should campaign against President Obama in 2012.

[DireStrike]

118. So you wanna address what I said? -nt-

[USArmyParatrooper]

119. Addressing what you said would be like addressing.....

"I'm sorry, it just doesn't look like a duck to me"

For the people that read the whole speech and look at that comment in its context - anyone who is really "offended" already has Obama derangement syndrome and there's nothing I can do for them. You feel "mocked." Wonderful. I care.

"But if you want to win you need me!" Uh, yeah and my response is BYE.

[liberation]

125. It think a simple "no, I am not going to address what you said" would have sufficed

No need to waste bandwidth with silly images and nonsensical tangential argumentation.

Cheers.

[DireStrike]

127. So you don't. I didn't think so.

Let's start again.

You think demanding world peace is equally as unrealistic as demanding at least an attempt to get a public option?


Also: I am quite aware that I have no power and am irrelevant to the political process. Just like almost everyone else in the country.

[USArmyParatrooper]

130. "At least an attempt to get a public option"

There was as huge attempt to get a public option, not just by Democrats who supported one but by President Obama himself. THE VOTES WERE NOT THERE.

And instead of blasting Joe Lieberman and a select few Democrats who opposed the public option - better to attack President Obama, right?

[DireStrike]

170. I disagree.

All the fighting, if there was any, was done in back rooms. You can assume there was a fight, but there's little evidence. There was no attempt to put any public pressure on the wayward senators. It didn't help that Obama waited so long to make even the weak statement he did regarding the PO.

As for Lieberman, that's the party's fault for, again, failing to come out strongly for Lamont.

[whatchamacallit]

120. I agree the extra context alters the tone

I disagree it validates his notions.

[Vickers]

121. Some folks just ain't happy unless their panties are completely bunched up. n/t

[frylock]

123. fail

knu

[Kall]

124. So...

Democrats are campaigning on this "historic" health care bill, right? They're trumpeting it as an example of how they're moving things in a positive direction? I mean, it's so great, and they're so proud of it, and people other than the stupid liberals are so happy with it, that it couldn't fail to impress.

Funny, I don't see that, I just see Gibbs, Kaine, Biden and Obama come out to horsewhip the people who worked for them into overlooking the promises they made when they worked for them... and work for them again. They're not saying they tried real hard and they'll keep working to get what they said they would, they're just saying people were stupid for ever holding them to what they said.

As to the fact that Obama's use of "You" proves he was only addressing the people in attendance and no one else. Well, I'm guessing the "You" Obama was referring to with regard to really needing a public option don't hang out at $30,000/plate fundraiser, and 20% hikes in their premiums don't really affect their lifestyle, so it's kinda hard to buy that he was just addressing the "Democrats" in attendance there and no one else.

[joeybee12]

129. I don't care about the mocking, what concerns me is that he thinks the gargabge known as HCR

is actually progressive? Yeesh!

[Jakes Progress]

131. How is this supposed to make it better?

Your interpretation of his words is wishful thinking. Without the context of the liberal complaints, his statements have no purpose. It is only in light of his and his staff's mocking of liberal expectations that he would have had any reason for the famous "second reason".

18 months ago, he could have gotten by with this kind of whipping up the crowd with promises. But 18 months of republican coddling and timid effort has forced many of us who did a lot to get him elected to demand that he put a little action in his effort, more than words. We know he can speak well when campaigning. Where was that golden throat during the Health Care debate? Where has it been used for GLBT issues? For those we get timid, carefully nuanced, scripted position suggestions.

The less said about his education secretary, the better.

This was a fund raiser for the special specials. The big money people. He wanted them to know that he would get them liberals in line. The attendee's money was safe. As for the undeniably intelligent guy who wouldn't flip off his base. He didn't think they would hear this or he doesn't think they matter. He does have an ego. (No shot there. Never had a president without an outsized ego.) I think he felt safe among his own, the rich and powerful.

But he can always actually do something that the base (I'm glad you acknowledge that progressives are the base) will cheer. We fell for the speeches before. We can still love the speeches and admire him in a bathing suit, but we would like some action please.

[Vinca]

132. Guess my panties are still in a knot. The lack of a public option

that is affordable will cause people to die. It's no more funny than George Bush on his hands and knees in the Oval Office looking for WMD. If he had fought for a public option, I would be more reasonable because I would know that he tried his hardest. But he didn't.

[USArmyParatrooper]

135. They're going to be in a knot regardless of what Obama says or does

So no harm done.

[Vinca]

138. That's not true at all and it's very annoying you would say that.

Since I am in pain 24/7 and cannot afford anything the wonderful "reform" plan has to offer, I'm a bit cranky about this particular policy. Democrats, unlike Republicans, are not lemmings who will follow someone over the cliff without thinking about it. The health insurance bill is horrible and there will be millions more uninsured come 2014. And a lot more people already dead.

[USArmyParatrooper]

140. Which provision of the healthcare bill do you want to appeal?

The votes weren't there for a public option. Why flame Obama (who wanted one) instead of the select few Democrats who didn't?

Hell, and even IF we didn't have Democratic detractors we still wouldn't have the votes. In order to use reconciliation a bill has to be a net deficit reducer, which would be extremely difficult to achieve with a public option.

[Vinca]

149. LBJ didn't have the votes for Medicare, either, but he got it done.

Obama pretty much closed the office door for most of the debate - the entire summer of death panels and other ridiculous crap - and didn't say a thing. Nothing. He might have insisted the single-payer advocates have a seat at the table. If that had been front and center, a public option compromise might have been reached. In any case, there came a point in time when it was obvious he wanted anything to pass, just to check the box "done." Well . . . it's not done. Since the bill was signed, the number of uninsured has increased to 50 million. 1 in 6 Americans. And Obama is cracking wise about the public option. How any Democrat can pat themselves on the back over that bit of legislation is beyond me. In all honesty, I've pretty much given up on this issue. I hope I can last 3+ years until I can get Medicare. If I get seriously ill, I hope I have the courage to leave this existence so my family won't end up living in a Maytag box on the street.

[USArmyParatrooper]

152. So LBJ passed a bill without enough required votes to pass it?

I agree with you that Obama tried too hard to be bipartisan. That's a legitimate concern. Single payer, which would be a complete dismantlement of the health care industry, doesn't have a chance in hell of passing. I see your point with starting high with negotiations and then working your way down. But if you're trying to sell Chevy Malibu you don't start by saying, "I'll give it to you for a million dollars" The Republicans never saw single payer as a threat so they would never take it seriously. All it would be is fodder for them to use.

The number of uninsured as increased because joblessness has increased. It has nothing to do with the bill, and nobody has ever claimed the bill is some great miracle for all. But it does have many great things within it.

It's just amazing how the Democrats who opposed the public option got off scott free while Obama get flammed. If someone made a thread pointing *them* out, hell, I would even join them.

[defendandprotect]

154. Obama had the public vote ....76%+ of the public wanted single player/government run health care...

What Obama/Baucus gave us was PRIVATIZED "ceform" health care for the benefit of their

health care industry sponsors!!

We have full out corruption of our system of government -- and people here are

trying to be grateful because it was only "mocking liberals among Democrats"... ???

No, folks -- wake up -- this was Obama performing for the elites and telling them

that he would continue to smash liberal ideals and agenda!!

[Mimosa]

180. Vinca and DefendandProtect are telling the truth

Nobody is bashing the president. But he didn't stand up for us. He let the special interests dictate what they would accept. And what they would accept does not benefit the common people. Obama did not use the bully pulpit, he did not try hard to get us what he needed. That tired refrain of 'the votes weren't there' is B.S.. The votes of the PEOPLE were there.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

136. Wow, you really blew the lid of this caper

You posted the comment just like everyone else has posted it while implying that it was taken out of context even though it's exactly the same in or out of what you take to be context.

And if anything, the comments are even more petulant "in context."

As to what you interpret it to mean... free country. You can read a series of words to mean something other than what they say. Nobody will stop you.

[USArmyParatrooper]

147. Then answer this

"So we are going to be in some tough fights everywhere, and all of you are going to be desperately needed in order for us to keep moving in a positive direction."

Now, the second reason I'm telling you this is because.... (Que "MOCKING" according to you.)

How does "mocking" fit into THIS that he is telling them, "So we are going to be in some tough fights everywhere, and all of you are going to be desperately needed in order for us to keep moving in a positive direction."?

[EFerrari]

164. There should be a place in the Pentagon PR office for someone this talented.

[NorthCarolina]

137. LOL..

[madfloridian]

139. This paragraph about education...salt in the wound.

From the link:

"Having said that, after being in this job for two years I have never been more optimistic about America. I am optimistic partly because we did some really tough things that aren’t always popular but were the right things to do. We had initiated an education reform agenda that is shaking up the education system all across the country. And I've got a terrific Secretary of Education who's been able to get teachers, principals, students -- sometimes there's some contentiousness about it, but everybody focused on how are we going to lift up performance for all our kids so they can compete in a global economy."

That says it so strongly...training them to compete in a global economy.

Some "contentiousness"? Just some? No, a lot.

No listening to teachers, nothing about real in-depth education.....just "training for a global economy."

He fails to understand that his revered Sec of Ed looks down his arrogant nose at teachers.

[sallyseven]

141. Listen to the Repuks and the remedy they have,

Tax breaks for the rich, knock off the medical plan, squeeze the middle class. Get rid of science in the classroom, trash educstion, foreclosure on your houses. Let the banks run wild and Wall Street too. They are the alliterative.

[defendandprotect]

151. Obama comments at a $30,000 a plate fundraiser... didn't knock the poor and homeless....

or promise any more cuts to food stamps --

HEY, LET'S BE GRATEFUL FOR THAT!!

[chill_wind]

159. Nah. You don't pokes sticks at the the very people in the room with the checkbooks

sitting in their laps. They're not his critics on the issues he mentioned or the butt of the joke. The wealthy care about one thing only: Protecting their own wealth and power. Those remarks weren't directed at them, which is why they could afford to laugh.

Like you said. Obama is undeniably a very intelligent man. A charming and very charismatic one too.

[USArmyParatrooper]

161. He wasn't poking a stick at anyone.

But I'm glad you recognize Obama is a very intelligent man who wouldn't poke sticks at people who help elect him. I'm glad we agree.

[chill_wind]

167. Agree? Not quite. He appears to have decided he can afford

to discard pressures of a large portion of the left who did in fact help elect him.
Quite clearly.

[Mimosa]

181. Time for the 'Republicans are worse' rebuttal? n/t

[EFerrari]

163. Exactly. n/t

[girl gone mad]

160. An interesting insight into his thought process.

If he genuinely believes that the Public Option was a goal as lofty and difficult as world peace, then it's no wonder he was so quick to make secret deals with industry, whereby he promised away the PO in exchange for next to nothing.

[USArmyParatrooper]

165. You should write a book and make millions

Since you claim to factually know "secret" deals made behind closed doors.

[girl gone mad]

166. It was reported in the New York Times.

[USArmyParatrooper]

168. Link?

[Exilednight]

169. Here you go ............

WASHINGTON — Pressed by industry lobbyists, White House officials on Wednesday assured drug makers that the administration stood by a behind-the-scenes deal to block any Congressional effort to extract cost savings from them beyond an agreed-upon $80 billion.

Drug industry lobbyists reacted with alarm this week to a House health care overhaul measure that would allow the government to negotiate drug prices and demand additional rebates from drug manufacturers.

In response,the industry successfully demanded that the White House explicitly acknowledge for the first time that it had committed to protect drug makers from bearing further costs in the overhaul. The Obama administration had never spelled out the details of the agreement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/policy/06insure.html

I still fail to understand how people honestly believe that Obama did not cut closed door deals with major segments of the health-care industry in order to get a water-downed bill that falls way short of what he promised.

[USArmyParatrooper]

171. Two things...

First, that article doesn't even support the claim you made. In fact, it doesn't even mention the public option. Also, it doesn't even source many the claims it does make.

You claimed Obama secretly made an agreement with insurance companies to "kill" the public option. Again, link?

[Exilednight]

172. I made no such claims ..........

Someone else did, I just provided a link proving backroom deals on health care reform. Now, since you really want to see how the PO was traded away in closed-door meetings, here you go.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/health/policy/13health.html

Next time, try google.

[USArmyParatrooper]

173. Doesn't work.

You need a membership to access it but from the one line they do show it's simply an opinion piece. Are you claiming there is proof Obama personally killed the public option?

[Exilednight]

175. It's not an opinion piece.

Opinion pieces don't have quotes from asked questions. This one has plenty of quotes from Rahm and Rep. Cooper of Texas (I would include them, but I need to stay within the 4 paragraph rule). Opinion pieces are designed to show a difference of opinion from the writer compared to what actually happened. This article makes no statements of whether the policy was right or wrong, it just states what happened from on and off the record sources.

WASHINGTON — In pursuing his proposed overhaul of the health care system, President Obama has consistently presented himself as aloof from the legislative fray, merely offering broad principles. Prominent among them is the creation of a strong, government-run insurance plan to compete with private insurers and press for lower costs.

Behind the scenes, however, Mr. Obama and his advisers have been quite active, sometimes negotiating deals with a degree of cold-eyed political realism potentially at odds with the president’s rhetoric.

<snip>

Hospital industry lobbyists, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of alienating the White House, say they negotiated their $155 billion in concessions with Mr. Baucus and the administration in tandem. House staff members were present, including for at least one White House meeting, but their role was peripheral, the lobbyists said.

Several hospital lobbyists involved in the White House deals said it was understood as a condition of their support that the final legislation would not include a government-run health plan paying Medicare rates — generally 80 percent of private sector rates — or controlled by the secretary of health and human services.

And to be honest, I don't know why it's not working for you. I don't have subscription and the link worked just fine for me.

[defendandprotect]

182. Link works fine .... and Obama/Baucus are both sponsored by health care industry.....

prime beneficiaries of campaign finance bribery --

Baucus and Obama spoke together a number of times a week -- and met once a week.


And quite clearly a deadly deal was made with big Pharma --

one of the Senators -- Dick Durbin? -- made a last ditch effort to push for

price negotiation on drugs for Medicare and was pretty much ousted from the party!!

Announced his resignation after that!

What's even more aggravating is that every last one of the pharm companies have

ripped off Medicare and been assessed huge fines for it -- but never barred from

future participation!!

Likewise with the rest of the health care industry -- the behind the scenes meetings

are there --

Sad how many need to look the other way on this obvious scheming to keep universal

health care for all Americans at bay --

[MrScorpio]

162. K&R

[Enrique]

176. there's no context issue

the added context makes no difference. Your explanation of how it does make a difference makes no sense. Whether he said Democrats or Liberals makes no difference. It would have been exactly the same if he said liberals.

[mmonk]

177. Who came up with the idea of a public option, transparency in government,

no private insurance mandates, closing Guantanamo and ending torture as policy, etc. anyway? Also, who came up with a deficit commission to look into "entitlements" or expanding charter schools and breaking the teacher's union because I can't remember Democrats asking for those things.