Witchcraft roundup...from an actual witch

[MorningGlow]

Okay peeps--been reading the various threads about O'Donnell's latest whoopsie, and while real witches and pagans are doing great explaining the truth of the practice in those threads, it's so scattered that I thought I'd collect all the truths and falsehoods in one thread. (I have been a practicing witch for more than 15 years.)

- Witchcraft is a real religion, recognized in the U.S. While "witch" can describe any follower of the faith, "Wiccans" are often defined as followers of Gardnerian witchcraft (the ol' famous-for-practicing-nekkid faction), but that can vary. Some witches prefer to be called pagans because of the bad rap the word "witch" gets. (I tend to be one of these people.)

- Witches do NOT worship Satan. In fact, witches don't even believe in the devil.

- Satanism is an entirely different belief system.

- Witches do have altars. They are sacred locations (we open up a vortex/connection with the divine at that spot) where we do our work. They are places where we keep the representations of the four directions (earth--a stone, air--incense, fire--candles, and water--dish with salt water), as well as any statues or images that represent the divine to us (these can vary greatly).

- Witches do NOT use bodily fluids, like the "blood" O'Donnell claims she saw on an altar. We do, however, use "dragon's blood" (a resin) as an incense (powder or stick) and in a liquid form as ink.

- Witches do not have orgies. Witches do not eat babies. Witches do not sacrifice living animals. Witches do not cast harmful spells on other people. Caveat: most witches are "white" witches who DO NOT wish harm upon others (note that this is not racist!); however, there are those who practice gray or black magic, and these are more likely to cast spells to harm.

I don't know what-all Ms. O'Donnell saw or thought she saw, but it was not the true Craft. There is a lot of "wannabe-ism" in college, with kids mixing up satanism and black magic and who knows what else, I will admit, but again, this is not the true Craft.

And finally, may I just say that if this turns the crazy right-wingers off of her, then by all means...SHE'S A WITCH! BURRRRN HER!

Any other questions, feel free to post! :hi:

[HipChick]

1. Thank you for posting this..there is a lot of ignorance surrounding the craft

[MorningGlow]

2. De nada

:hi:

[Taverner]

3. She was probably with some idiotic teens playing with a Ouija board

And her imagination ran with that

[MorningGlow]

6. Likely

What I don't get is when she said they had a "midnight picnic ON a satanic altar". :shrug:

My altar is a small table, and most of my friends' altars are the same. Plus it's crammed with all kinds of tools and statues and figurines. You can't have a picnic or anything else ON it. :wtf:

[Taverner]

8. She could have been with some teens fucking with her...

I remember in college, some of the kids were that gullible

[walldude]

19. I doubt it was even that... the whole "witch" thing was

just some bullshit she made up so she could run around saying "see this is how witches are, I know I was one once"...

[Dappleganger]

51. Put me in the "she made it up" camp.

I don't believe a word she says is true.

[Alcibiades]

58. She is a liar of the first order

Are you a Christian? Do you want to be special, to find a special way to deliver your testimony? You have to learn the come to Jesus story! The first thing you learn is that no one wants the testimony of someone who has led a normal, Christian life, raised in a traditional family with loving parents. That's boring, and it's not part of born-again theology: to really be born again, you have to come on your knees to Christ. What does this mean? Well, much like a 12-step program, you have to hit rock bottom. Testimony is best when it comes from people who have hit rock bottom, such as:

* Ex-sluts
* Ex-gays
* Ex-criminals
* Ex-druggies
* cancer survivors
* victims of one sort or another (folks who have had a black woman throw acid on their face, for example)
* Ex-Satanists

All of this makes your redemption more special, and you more special, and you do want to be special, don't you? Christ thinks you're special, and he's willing to forgive folks for lying, especially if they only do so in spreading HIS TRUTH.

___________________________________

There ought to be a special category for evangelical religious delusions. Google "ex-Satanist testimony," and you get 11,300,000 hits. There are more fake Satanist Christians lying about what they have done than actual Satanists.

O'Donnell incorporates several elements of the story about the fallen slut, drug user and satanist in her story, none of which are true. She's a fraud.

[proReality]

64. Isn't it odd...

"Christ thinks you're special, and he's willing to forgive folks for lying, especially if they only do so in spreading HIS TRUTH."

Isn't it odd that Christ finds everyone so special that, as long as you grovel, he'll allow you to do whatever you want, including ignoring his commandments. Like lying: "Thou shat not bear false witness."

So if the commandments and other things preached by Jesus are his truth, why don't the born agains live by his truth? That's always bothered me, until I realized the fundies have scrambled eggs for brains.

[Kalyke]

106. Uh... because Jesus didn't write the Commandments.

Jesus actually tore them down and left us with two:

1. Love God.
2. Love Your Neighbor.

I find it odd that so many Christians go by the Old Testament (except, you know, for the parts about eating pork and mixing fibers and dairies and meat, etc.) instead of following the King of Peace to the Beatitudes.

[Dappleganger]

88. You nailed it.

And I'm really sick of people like her getting a free pass. I am a christian and it pisses the hell out of me. :mad:

[Alcibiades]

97. And, of course, fundies might insist you're not Christian

Catholics are not, and so, is anyone who is not THEIR sort of Christian: I read one site that criticized President Obama's conversion experience because he said "it's a process." The author wrote something along the lines of it's not a process, you have to be broken down, etc. They take the road to Damascus story and apply it to everyone, and anyone whose story isn't exactly like theirs must be fake, even if most of their own stories are fake: some have to fake their own stories to be real.

And they now own the Christian label, have practically trademarked it. And other Christians have just let it happen, though they are, privately, very upset. Not willing to seem intolerant, though, they have kept these feelings mainly private.

[LostinVA]

74. Exactly -- although she was a decade late for "Satanic Panic"

Idiot.

I have great respect for nature-based paths, and have had quite a few Pagan Friends. To equate it with someone evil pisses me off, and does the ignorance of not even knowing that Wiccans and most other Pagans do not recognize or believe in the duality of the "goddesshead." This kind of garbage lead to the West Memphis Three and McMartin travesties.

[davidinalameda]

4. thank you

let's keep this kicked

:hug:

[MrScorpio]

5. It should be no surprise that O'Donnell had no idea what she was talking about

Thanks for setting the record straight

[lunatica]

7. I think her boyfriend and friends pulled a trick on her

And she still doesn't get it. I can think of no other reason for blood on an altar. No religion I know except maybe Santeria, but I doubt any practitioner of that religion would take her to any altar.

[Mimosa]

70. Lunatica, you're right about Santeria...

Goats, roosters, and pigeons are generally sacrificed.

But I think O'Donnel is full of it.

Back in the old days, there were some stone or concrete altars built outside for outdoor Catholic masses.

[JanMichael]

9. Good post!

I am so tired of idiots like her and their silly assed notions of Wiccan and Pagan rituals-

[comtec]

10. I too am so sick of these idiot kids thinking anything "mystical" is witchcraft!!!

Sounds like some 4th rate "satanists" she was hanging with

Wicca is so beautiful, and I cherish in my heart the time I was one (girl I dated. sadly I really couldn't stay with the coven after we broke up ) and I found it's tenants to be wonderful. The idea that you thank mother earth for what you have, and cherish whatever you have... it was a happy and relaxed time in my life (sadly other things were stressing the fuck out of me, which is why i stupidly broke it off)

anyway... Merry meet ^^

[MorningGlow]

13. Merry meet, Comtec!

:hi:

Glad you had a good experience with witchcraft. I left my coven three years ago and have been a practicing solitary since then. If you enjoy the practices, you are always free to be a solitary as well. It's not quite the same, but it's better than nothing!

[roguevalley]

44. my friends call them twitches. little biddies.

[mysticalchick]

11. Excellent synopsis MG!

One thing that many people don't understand about Wicca is the Threefold Law. As I understand it, whose who practice the Craft strongly believe that whatever you send out (energetically) comes back to you threefold. So, if you're sending out some crap stuff to another, be ready for it to come hit you smack in the face.

I haz a sad whenever I hear people denigrate witches because they are some of the coolest, most in-touch with Mother Earth people I know. (And I loves me some Morning Glow!). Energy is just energy, peeps. Whether you use it for good or nefarious purposes is totally in your control.

According to Religious Tolerance http://www.religioustolerance.org/wicrede.htm:

The Wiccan Rede is the rule governing Wiccan behavior. It permits Wiccans to engage in any carefully considered action, as long as it harms nobody, including themselves. The Rede is reinforced by the Threefold Law. This is the belief that any harm or good that a Wiccan does to someone else comes back to hurt or benefit them -- magnified three times over. Both are mentioned in the Wiccan Credo, a poem about Wicca whose origin is unclear.

Caveat: I am not Wiccan but have read a lot about it and the energetic principles used so MG or anyone else, please do correct me if I am wrong about this.

[MorningGlow]

15. Yes indeed

I toyed with the idea of including it in my OP, but decided to keep it simple for now. But yes, the Threefold Law is one of two major tenets of the Craft. The other is simply, "An (if) it harm none, do as thou wilt." "HARM NONE" being the operative words there. ;) People who practice gray or black magic are aware of the consequences described in the Threefold Law and are willing to risk the karmic kickback that would result.

[ZombieHorde]

12. Wiccans are witches, but witches are not necessarily Wiccans.

The word witch is more open than the word Wiccan. Who gets to decide which practices are witchcraft and which practices are not witchcraft? Witches? Who gets to decide who is really a witch and who is not really a witch? If a member of T.O.P.Y. or I.O.T. (both of which use bodily fluids) wishes to call herself/himself a witch, how can we argue otherwise?

[Hestia]

67. Witches don't follow the Rule of Three - too restrictive. They decide which path to follow

[ZombieHorde]

71. My reply does not mention the Rule of Three, but I did just write another post which does mention

the Rule of Three.

[truedelphi]

14. Dammit. I had just ordered a crate of babies.

They looked pretty delish too!

But now that I know better, I guess I'll ask for my money back.

BTW do you know where I can get a decent broom? Now that they are made in China, I can't get further thant he back of the back yard.


Anyway a Big K & R.

[MorningGlow]

16. BWAAAHAAA

:rofl: :thumbsup:

(Oh yeah, another point--witches have a sense of humor!)

[johnaries]

Lot's of hand-made brooms here in TN. BTW, the broom is used

for cleansing, since it is a symbol of cleaning. NOT for flying - for those who don't know. I'm a Neo-Pagan with Daoist philosophies. I don't practice much because of my Daoist belief in Wu-Wei, but I will help others.

[truedelphi]

27. Thank you for the reminder that the broom really is

For cleaning.

[davidinalameda]

22. that's what you get for buying equipment at Wal-Mart

:hi:

[truedelphi]

28. Uh, the delish babies weren't from WalMart

they were from "fedupnewparents.com" (And I got a good price, too.)

Oh, you mean the broom comment. I try to shop at the smaller ahrdware stores, but now those too ahve become a big box store. <sihg. And driving out of my locale to shop at a small mom and pop only hurts the environment by putting pollution from my car into the air.

I might try a stab at making my own though.

And good to meet you, daveinalameda :hug:

[davidinalameda]

47. my local Wal-Mart carries them in the deli

stab at making your own babies?

:evilgrin:

[truedelphi]

89. Heh. Heh. n/t

[I Have A Dream]

53. +1!

:)

[gkhouston]

39. Will you take them slightly aged? The kids next door are on my last nerve.

:+

[truedelphi]

100. Sure. As long as they are under seventy pounds.

I think currently the "Anywhere," Rates of the United States Post Office are around seventy pounds. They'll give you a box for that weight and then you can just ship the kids to me.

[foxfeet]

17. Thanks for the post!

I've been practicing for going on thirty years, both in groups and solitary. There is so much mis- and disinformation out there I've gotten rather tired of explaining things to hostile people (but then, I'm a cranky old witch). Your post was informative and hit all the high points.

BB and may your harvest at Mabon be a rich one!

[MorningGlow]

18. Merry meet, Foxfeet!

:hi:

It can get tiring, true. In fact, that's why I started an OP--instead of rushing around to all the other threads and explaining things. Blessed Be back atcha! :)

[Mojorabbit]

25. Thirty years or thereabouts here too. nt

[foxfeet]

30. Merry meet, Mojo Rabbit!

And Blessed Mabon to you and yours!

[Mojorabbit]

31. Back atcha

foxfeet! :)
This is my favorite time of year coming up.

[Hestia]

68. Wow, maybe this is a good thing, there are more Pagans than I thought

DH & I are Hermetic/Western Mystery Tradition Country Pagans (we live in a rural area).

[druidity33]

20. Thanks. K&R. nt.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. Isn't this the No Scotsman fallacy?

[dbt]

23. Big Bright K & R

Well spoken and right on time!

[Cleita]

24. Thanks MG.

Unfortunately, your religion is being thrown under the same bus the Xtian fundies are throwing the Muslims. It's very sad really because it seems we have learned nothing about Hitler's treatment of the Jews under the Third Reich.

[MorningGlow]

26. Ain't that the truth

But *sigh* we're used to it. It's only been about 600, 700 years of this shit...at least the Burning Times are out of fashion...

[Hekate]

29. KnR. Thanks for the succinct summary.

[progressoid]

32. Do you weigh the same as a duck?

CROWD: A witch! A witch! A witch! We've got a witch! A witch!
VILLAGER #1: We have found a witch, might we burn her?
CROWD: Burn her! Burn!
BEDEMIR: How do you know she is a witch?
VILLAGER #2: She looks like one.
BEDEMIR: Bring her forward.
WITCH: I'm not a witch. I'm not a witch.
BEDEMIR: But you are dressed as one.
WITCH: They dressed me up like this.
CROWD: No, we didn't... no.
WITCH: And this isn't my nose, it's a false one.
BEDEMIR: Well?
VILLAGER #1: Well, we did do the nose.
BEDEMIR: The nose?
VILLAGER #1: And the hat -- but she is a witch!
CROWD: Burn her! Witch! Witch! Burn her!
BEDEMIR: Did you dress her up like this?
CROWD: No, no... no ... yes. Yes, yes, a bit, a bit.
VILLAGER #1: She has got a wart.
BEDEMIR: What makes you think she is a witch?
VILLAGER #3: Well, she turned me into a newt.
BEDEMIR: A newt?
VILLAGER #3: I got better.
VILLAGER #2: Burn her anyway!
CROWD: Burn! Burn her!
BEDEMIR: Quiet, quiet. Quiet! There are ways of telling whether
she is a witch.
CROWD: Are there? What are they?
BEDEMIR: Tell me, what do you do with witches?
VILLAGER #2: Burn!
CROWD: Burn, burn them up!
BEDEMIR: And what do you burn apart from witches?
VILLAGER #1: More witches!
VILLAGER #2: Wood!
BEDEMIR: So, why do witches burn?

VILLAGER #3: B--... 'cause they're made of wood...?
BEDEMIR: Good!
CROWD: Oh yeah, yeah...
BEDEMIR: So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood?
VILLAGER #1: Build a bridge out of her.
BEDEMIR: Aah, but can you not also build bridges out of stone?
VILLAGER #2: Oh, yeah.
BEDEMIR: Does wood sink in water?
VILLAGER #1: No, no.
VILLAGER #2: It floats! It floats!
VILLAGER #1: Throw her into the pond!
CROWD: The pond!
BEDEMIR: What also floats in water?
VILLAGER #1: Bread!
VILLAGER #2: Apples!
VILLAGER #3: Very small rocks!
VILLAGER #1: Cider!
VILLAGER #2: Great gravy!
VILLAGER #1: Cherries!
VILLAGER #2: Mud!
VILLAGER #3: Churches -- churches!
VILLAGER #2: Lead -- lead!
ARTHUR: A duck.
CROWD: Oooh.
BEDEMIR: Exactly! So, logically...,
VILLAGER #1: If... she.. weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood.
BEDEMIR: And therefore--?
VILLAGER #1: A witch!
CROWD: A witch!
BEDEMIR: We shall use my larger scales!

BEDEMIR: Right, remove the supports!


CROWD: A witch! A witch!
WITCH: It's a fair cop.
CROWD: Burn her! Burn!
BEDEMIR: Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?
ARTHUR: I am Arthur, King of the Britons.
BEDEMIR: My liege!
ARTHUR: Good Sir knight, will you come with me to Camelot,
and join us at the Round Table?
BEDEMIR: My liege! I would be honored.
ARTHUR: What is your name?
BEDEMIR: Bedemir, my leige.
ARTHUR: Then I dub you Sir Bedemir, Knight of the Round Table.

[frogmarch]

42. Love Monte Python!

That skit is on You Tube. I watched it the other day. :-)

[Left coast liberal]

33. Interesting! Thanks for the info. :-)

[Donald Ian Rankin]

34. This is one group of self-proclaimed witches; no "truer" than any other.

Yes, there are people who call themselves witches who match everything she says. There are also people who call themselves witches who e.g. do worship Satan, who don't have altars, who don't use "dragon's blood", etc and are just as "true" or otherwise witches as this person is.

The idea that there is a "true" form of witchcraft with a monopoly on the term is a foolish one, I think. I'm quite prepared to take your word for it that this is what you do, and that you call yourself a witch, but you're no more or less a witch than other self-proclaimed witches who interpret the word differently.

I admit that there probably aren't many witches who eat babies though*...


*At least in the US - I believe that in Africa there's a regretable trend of people kidnapping and murdering albinos for body parts for "witchcraft".

[PuraVidaDreamin]

35. yup you're right

just like there are democrats who practice being the democratic wing of the democratic party

and... democrats who practice being republican.

[Zephie]

36. Ba-zing!

:popcorn:

[Donald Ian Rankin]

57. I take it you're not talking about support for racial segregation?

The idea that there was a lost golden age when the Democrats were more liberal than they are currently, and that the left wing of the party is true to this while the centrists are deviating from it, is not an accurate one, I think. I'm all in favour of the Democratic party moving left, but this is very much "moving on", not "moving back".

[foxfeet]

98. I must comment on your use of the term "self-proclaimed."

I don't wish to take offense where none was intended, but I hope you will understand that this term is rarely applied to Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs, atheists or what-have you. It is all too often used (in the US) by the media as a stupidly lazy way of describing practitioners of Earth-centered religions. There exist many well-established Pagan traditions ("denominations," if you will) that recognize as members and clergy of those traditions only those practitioners who adhere to the specific teachings and ritual forms passed on by their teachers. In that sense, the practitioners are hardly self-proclaimed any more than is the Archbishop of Canterbury. I do agree that the term "witch" is very broad and fluid and is subject to differing interpretations. Its use among Pagans in the US is an attempt to reclaim the word from its earlier meaning as exclusively a practitioner of harmful magic. Clearly, the reclamation has been only partially successful thus far.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

99. I think it's "claim", not "reclaim".

The difference between referring to Christians as "self-proclaimed Christians" and referring to people like the OP as "self-proclaimed witches" is that the word "Christian" originated as, and has always been used for, a description of the group currently calling themselves Christians, whereas the word "witch" predates witches of the style of the OP by hundreds of years, and its original meaning specifically excludes them - it means "someone who does magic" (or possibly "someone who does harmful magic", as you say).

The OP doesn't do magic, because magic isn't real; in the original sense of the word there are no such things as witches.

Using the word "witch" to mean "pagan" is widespread enough nowadays that it's arguably a legitimate usage, but it's definately claiming rather than reclaiming the word.

[donheld]

37. k & R

[JoeyT]

38. "Witches do not have orgies. Witches do not eat babies."

Well that kind of takes the fun out of things. ;)

There really isn't a "true" craft. There are a whole bunch of people that consider themselves satanists and witches at the same time.
Religion is pretty fluid, and a non-structural religion like Wicca is far more fluid than most. Comes from being a religion that doesn't claim to deal in divinely revealed wisdom that punishes any deviation by divine retribution.

[Prophet 451]

40. Satanists don't do this shit either

I actually am a Satanist (Luciferian, if it matters) and we don't eat babies, sacrifice animals or, generally, harm people. Luciferian Satanists DO worship the devil but it's almost certainly not what you think, LaVeyan Satanists don't believe in a devil at all. We do occasionally practice blood magic but it's very much down to the individual and any blood will be drawn from the caster.

Oh, and the orgies are entirely optional.

[LostinVA]

75. Exactly

[laughingliberal]

77. True. Luciferians do not, generally, do these things. There are, however, some Satanic sects that

do engage in some bloodlust type activities beyond those you describe. There numbers are, thankfully, small.

[greyl]

41. You're simply defining "witchcraft" in such a way as to exclude O'Donnell's ridiculousness.

The The No True Scotsman Fallacy, iow.
http://atheism.about.com/od/logicalfallacies/a/notruescotsman.htm

In my experience, people who claim to be witches are quite individualistic.

edit: To be clear, I'm not saying your take on witchcraft isn't the most commonly practiced, only that there is more diversity out there.

[dbonds]

55. You would argue with a fence post just for the sake of arguing

[RandomThoughts]

43. Many of the ideas of that topic come from persecutions over centuries.

I do not know much about that topic, but do know many falsehoods were attached to people based on ideas of what people in positions in organizations wanted, not what was being done.

One guy crushed by stones in the Salem witch trial died saying the Lords prayer, and 'more weight'. He refused to say he followed evil, like they were trying to get him to say.

Much of the concept of it being evil was to get people to confess that they followed evil when they did not. Literally people that did not follow evil were tortured to try and get them to say they followed evil. It was backwards, of coarse what would you expect from people that torture.

There are many people that use spiritual power for bad, and many that are deceived by it, people have to decide which groups are deceived and which are trying to do best.

And much of religion speaks of spiritual power, so it is not spiritual power that is bad, but what it is used for, or the ideology it is from.


My belief is God shows himself to different people in different ways, although I think rituals are traps, it is not for me to judge a group like that, but from the teachings I believe in to love them as brothers and sisters, just like every other person, and every other group. If they are wrong, love would help show that, if they have something to contribute to my learning, loving would help that also.

Reposted from another thread.

[lillypaddle]

45. O'Donnell probably worships the Water Buddha, too

K&R, nice thread.

[NJmaverick]

46. K&R

[James48]

48. But what I want to know is...

Are you a good witch, or a bad witch?

All the munchkins want to know.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IRe2HwMr2w

[October]

49. Excellent post. /nt

[truth2power]

50. Thank you for posting this. I cringed when I saw that video of O'Donnell..

I was aware she didn't know what she was talking about. Especially mixing Satanism with Wicca.

Not that the crazies are capable of understanding any of this.

[I Have A Dream]

52. Thank you for sharing your wisdom, MorningGlow.

You are a true light in this world.

:loveya:

[perdita9]

54. We still have freedom of religion in the U.S.

But that will disappear if Christine O'Donnell or Sarah Palin get into office.

Thanks to the author for clarifying her beliefs.

[DailyGrind51]

56. Forget about the Mormons, will Fundamentalists vote for a witch?

[Irishonly]

63. She will cry and say she has been saved

Fundies love former 'sinners'. They also believe once you have been saved you can do whatever and you will be forgiven.

[DailyGrind51]

85. If she was a Liberal, however, no forgiveness would be forthcoming!

[Irishonly]

87. Absolutely

To the right wing fundies one condition of forgiveness is that you believe like them. If you do you can murder, maim, lie, cheat, steal or even wear diapers. Then you can blubber and ask for forgiveness and poof, the sins are gone.

[FirstLight]

59. wow...so much to agree with and more to add

upthread someone said that because the 'craft' is not really organized, it is more fluid in the way it is practised...i totally agree. but I also think that's why paganism has survived through the ages...it's more about a relationship 'with' creation/creatrix

Also, a point brought up here was that ritual is dangerous or a crutch...try to think of it more as the human need for symbolism and archetypes. It exists in ALL transpersonal circles, be it native american, catholic, jewish, muslim... we use the symbols and the rituals to express outwardly the transfromation we seek inwardly, and the effect we wish to have on our surroundings...


anyway, that's just my 2 cents. I 'dabbled' in my college years too... but it lead me to have a more open and eclectic form of spirituality. Now, I wouldn't say i am a wiccan, but I guess i am a lutheran-pagan-native american-seeker of truth ;)

thanks MG for the chance for clarity for us all...
I am worried that intolerance of the religious right is a danger to many of us....

[Hestia]

72. Excellent post First Light - again, wish I could rec replies

[Guilded Lilly]

60. Harm to none

thank you for the post!

peace,
Lilly

[dbt]

61. !

[JackInGreen]

62. As to that orgy matter

I protest, I've been to a couple, though I wouldn't say that all of the participants were pagan, only a few.

[Hestia]

65. I posted also on this - the late 1990s was a horrible time for Pagans and Witches

I thought was over with...

[Hestia]

66. Well, some Witches do use their menstrual blood for protection. Does that count?

[MorningGlow]

81. SSSHHHH! You'll freak people out!

;)

I was trying to generalize--perhaps a little too much, I realize--in the interest of expediency. I was more interested in debunking the "witches sacrifice animals and bathe in/drink their blood" assumption. I realize there are many, many different kinds of pagans and witches out there--sometimes too many different practices to be able to create blanket statements for them all. :hi:

[Fire1]

95. Perhaps this does more harm for your "cause" and detracts

from the legitimacy of the belief. Btw, what exactly are wiccan or pagan burial rights?

[MorningGlow]

96. I don't have a "cause", Fire1

I made a sincere attempt at explaining the basics of my belief system. If other people choose to vary their practices, that's their business. "An it harm none, do as thou wilt" is what we believe.

Burial rites? Whatever people wish, in accordance with the law. Many pagans choose cremation because we do not believe we need the physical body after each lifetime is over--it is merely a shell, a vehicle--and of course cremation doesn't require taking up space in Mother Earth.

[Fire1]

101. "Cause" to be recognized and acknowledged as legitimate. n/t

[BoneDaddy]

105. Good point

My friend, a witch in the Germanic tradition, has the most incredible gardens by using her menstrual blood.

[TBF]

69. I don't know that I've ever met a witch, so this is very informative

thanks for posting and setting the record straight!

[PatrynXX]

73. or is she a newt?

Didn't it take years to get the Wicca symbol on the head of a gravestone for a fallen soldier??


They did seem a bit peeved about Harry Potter and his broom. It's going the wrong way. Bush first.

Would I guess I would compared to Native Americans Scalping peoples heads. It wasn't their idea, the French wanted proof they had killed so many people..

[laughingliberal]

76. K & R and Blessed Be nt

[penndragon69]

78. she was 'palin' around with satanists.

Nothing wiccan OR pagan about her description.
She was just a Satanist whore trying to get herself
more power and control. Just like palin and her voodoo church exercism
in wasilla.
Only christians fall for the satanic BS.

Blessed be, to all Wiccans and Pagans !

[mmonk]

79. No orgies?

[wookie72]

80. Actualy, I've known a few witches who have orgies

But not as part of their rituals.

[MorningGlow]

82. That's the distinction--thank you

Although perhaps there are some covens out there who may integrate that into their circles, it's not a common practice.

[wookie72]

83. No, I'm pretty sure this was just for fun :)

[MorningGlow]

84. LOL

:hi:

[bertman]

86. Thanks, MorningGlow. Rec. nt

[yella_dawg]

90. How long ago did she make these comments?

I think I read the original comments were made about ten years ago, or so.

The thing is, back then, there was a spate of "claims", among the fundies, that they were "recovered" witches. Seems like they were coming out of the woodwork. I think it must have been a fad amongst traveling evangelists that spawned copycats amongst their audiences. As a practicing pagan since the seventies, I found these stories both bizarre and comical. One of the key features was "blood" used in various ways. One otherwise sane-seeming woman claimed to have bathed in blood for some rite or other. This strikes me as odd, since blood isn't liquid outside the body unless treated with anti-coagulant. No need it screwing up a good story with facts, I guess.

[TrogL]

107. My cat bled all over me last night (abcess broke)

Seemed pretty liquid to me. It did, however, clot up pretty quick.

[yella_dawg]

108. More quickly say...

than you could hold a satanic rite?

[BoneDaddy]

91. Sounds like ms odonnell was projecting

a lil bit of herself

[MorningGlow]

92. No way

For the most part, we witches are a LOT nicer! And smarter. :evilgrin:

[BoneDaddy]

93. I said nothing about you or the craft

I said she was projecting herself...an Jungian projection of what she "thinks" is powerful feminine energy.
I disagree...blessed be sister

[MorningGlow]

94. Oops my apologies

I thought you meant that she was projecting her "witchy" ways. Forgive?

[BoneDaddy]

103. Always

:)

[Tommy_Carcetti]

102. Point Number 6(a) disappointed me.

I'm not going to lie.

[BoneDaddy]

104. Well said and necessary

The misinformation by people in here is astounding.