Obama presses for longer school years

[steve2470]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100927/ap_on_bi_ge/us_obama

WASHINGTON – Barely into the new school year, President Barack Obama issued a tough-love message to students and teachers on Monday: Their year in the classroom should be longer, and poorly performing teachers should get out.

American students are falling behind their foreign counterparts, especially in math and science, and that's got to change, Obama said. Seeking to revive a sense of urgency that education reform may have lost amid the recession's focus on the economy, Obama declared that the future of the country is at stake.

"Whether jobs are created here, high-end jobs that support families and support the future of the American people, is going to depend on whether or not we can do something about these schools," the president said in an interview on NBC's "Today" show.

U.S. schools through high school offer an average of 180 instruction days per year, according to the Education Commission of the States, compared to an average of 197 days for lower grades and 196 days for upper grades in countries with the best student achievement levels, including Japan, South Korea, Germany and New Zealand.

[old mark]

1. If you keep everyone in school til age 25, it would reduce the unemployment problem, too...nt

[BlueDemKev]

93. Yeah, but....

....that would drive up health insurance premiums since there would be so many more grown children on their parents' plan (they can stay on it until they're 26).

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. If I had my way I would have a longer school year

that he is correct. We no longer have an agrarian economy that needs those kids in the summer.

The year has 365 days... what is wrong with 220 days of school?

Yes I know teachers and students like that summer vacation, but there are valid reasons not to have such a LONG vacation.

After that... school reform is not reform, but privatization, because we all know private money is always that much more effective and efficient...

:sarcasm:

[customerserviceguy]

7. We may not have an agrarian society

But we have a vacation industry that depends on those summer vacation periods. I'm not saying that's a good thing, just that it's a reality.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Given that most parents cannot take the whole summer off

having a month off would be more than enough for vacation time. And school systems could stack them... so you would have the full summer, and how many parents have more than a week for vacation anyway?

That speaks about the country in other ways.

Oh and these long vacations have a problem... as a teacher you spend time reminding kids what they learned last year... shorter vacations would reduce that time.

[customerserviceguy]

18. The extended vacation system

spreads out the people who are willing to visit theme parks, etc. If all the parents in a workplace had to try to cram their vacations into July, those who are low on the totem pole just would miss out. Disney World can't have that, you know.

I agree, summer vacation is lost time. But, you're going to be fighting the Mouse if you want that to change.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. That is why a school system can and would

have vacations in June, others in July and so forth.

The Mouse will not fight that actually.

[customerserviceguy]

26. You still have the problem

of everybody in the factory or the office having to compete for that one month, whatever it is. Not everybody's going to get it.

Unless you're talking about having kids out of school at different months in the same school system. That might be unwieldy to administer properly.

[mzteris]

28. actuallly it works GREAT!

the breaks are spread out year round.

See my link to a calendar in Wake County below (somewhere!)

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Thanks I know it works great

but some folks really don't want to change a thing.

[customerserviceguy]

30. OK, it's been quite some time since my kids were in school

and I have no idea how such a system would actually work. But more power to those who can make it happen.

[uncommon]

61. We would be better off with more 1 week vacations instead of one long summer vacation.

I find them much more restful for my daughter and myself when I was younger.

[msanthrope]

77. Interesting thing about the Mouse and Spring Break in Florida--

the Florida counties stagger their Spring Breaks, so they all aren't out at the same time.

This, apparently at the request of the Mouse.

[customerserviceguy]

91. Yea, verily

the Mouse moves in mysterious ways!

[mzteris]

27. Here's how it works

in Wake County - - - school for nine weeks, off for three. There are four tracks. At any given time, three tracks are "IN", and one track is "OUT".

After the initial confusion, the local community is making more money off of offering "track out" camps (for working parents) - and parents get to spread that $$ spent on camps over the year instead of just summer. So for instance the local Y always has a track out camp going on - so their facilities are getting used more and they employ more people year round.

I posted a link to Wake County's calendar showing how their calendars work - traditional, year-round, and modified traditional (a "year round" w/o tracks)

[customerserviceguy]

32. Can a family get multiple kids off at the same time?

Even if they're in different grade levels? If so, this might be workable.

[MattBaggins]

58. Interesting how your question is not being addressed

You threw a huge monkey wrench into a pretend system that is actually a huge logistical nightmare.

[SheilaT]

70. I have heard second or third hand

of schools that went to the kind of track system described, and siblings were not in the same track. Not entirely sure how accurate that was. If true, it would be totally stupid. But if the tracks are geared by grade, then it could easily happen that way.

[mzteris]

74. tracks are not "by grade"

each grade has four tracks...

[mzteris]

73. uh - I'm not on here 24/7 you know

sorry if I didn't answer fast enough for ya!

[uncommon]

63. If kids are in different schools in the same system, this shouldn't be an issue. However, I think

staggering vacation time is stupid. People use those breaks to visit family who may be on a different schedule.

[mzteris]

71. yes - if for some reason

your kids are in different "tracks" - you can request they both be put on the same track.

[customerserviceguy]

90. There seems to be more to it than I had imagined

I guess there's some creative thinking going on out there. Since I graduated high school over thirty-five years ago, it's news to me.

Thanks for enlightening me. Maybe the Mouse won't mind too much, and we can get this accomplished.

[NuttyFluffers]

106. depends on the system. one i went to had grade, jr, high all off at once.

it was more of a district thing than a grade level thing. so unless your kids are going to multiple schools flung clear across district lines, you should be fine. really no problem at all.

[struggle4progress]

31. There's a real vacation industry pressure for low-wage teenage summer workers.

I will sadly report that a few years bad the vacation industry here in NC actually successfully pressured our General Assembly to short the school year so low-wage teenage summer workers would be available for more of the summer

[customerserviceguy]

34. Also, it would hurt the ability of high schoolers

to get summer jobs to pay towards college. If anyone does that anymore.

[snooper2]

109. I worked while school was in...at least 4 nights during week...

Time for our society to step up and stop being so damned lazy is my opinion...

Got to let kids have their 5 hours of X-box every night though :eyes:

letting the TV be the parent...

[Kat45]

42. In recent years, all the summer workers I've seen have been foreigners

Young women from various countries working at the motels and such. I've met some from Europe, though I forget where specifically, and I was somewhat surprised.

[uncommon]

60. Who vacations for the entire summer???

[msanthrope]

78. Ahem...

Yes. For most of it.

[MadHound]

44. There are also valid reasons to have the vacation length we have, and they're not agrarian

Some of a child's best learning comes outside the school through play, recreation, etc.
A lot of students are relying upon summer jobs to help them get into college.
A lot of students are able to attend other educational events in the summer, events that have large impacts on their education and life in general.
A child also simply needs time to be a child.

Teachers need the time to rest and recharge, such as it is. Contrary to popular believe, teachers don't get summers off. They might get them easy, but they don't get them off. Many have summer jobs, virtually all have to get continuing education, and all need time to think and reflect, rework their lesson plans, tweak what they do, that is part of the art of teaching.

This country needs summer vacation. The impact on tourism would be huge, negatively impacting all of the states. It would negatively impact businesses that rely on student labor in the summer.

It is a bad idea all the way around.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Well I am sure these other countries

that have shorter, mind you, not gone, summer vacations... are wrong then...

You know places like Korea, Japan... hell for that matter Sweden.

Having shorter, albeit not gone, summer vacations is not that crazy.

Hell having more efficient school days is not that crazy either.

I am not at all for NCLB or any of this crap, but the talk of shorter summer vacations has been going on well before Bush started to push his crap... in fact, some discussions on it started when I WAS in college over a generation ago.

There are valid reasons for that.

Mind you, it COSTS MONEY, and when schools are looking for ways to CUT school days... I ain't holding my breath.

Oh and one good reason for this is it lowers the need to refresh knowledge that kids forget over the summer.

[Hannah Bell]

53. japan's summer vacation runs from about mid-july to sept 1.

there's also a winter & spring break.

More school days but less time on formal instruction in each day & more time for things like clubs, school trips, music, etc:

1/ The average hours of instruction per day includes only the time students spend exposed to educational instruction and does not include time spent in lunch, extracurricular activities, homeroom, breaks between classes, and other noninstructional activities. Thus the actual length of the school day may be considerably longer.






*1990-91 school year.

SOURCE: All countries from Educational Testing Service, International Assessment of Educational Progress, Learning Mathematics, 1992; Learning Science, 1992; except the former West Germany: unpublished tabulations, International Association for the Evaluation of Educational Achievement (IEA) Study of Reading Literacy, 1992; and Japan: National Institute of Education Research, Ministry of Education, Science, and Culture, Government of Japan, Monbusho, 1992.

[Art_from_Ark]

89. Those data are 20 years old

The Japanese educational system has undergone a lot of changes since then, such as the abolishment of Saturday classes in most public schools.

Also, currrent (ostensible) vacation times are as follows:

Japanese Summer vacation-- late July to September 1
Winter vacation roughly December 26 to January 7
Spring vacation -- late February/early March to early April

The data also do not include time that Japanese kids spend in private tutorial/cram schools after school hours. Nearly every Japanese student on an academic track attends some sort of a tutorial school, especially as they approach the time for taking the test to get into the next level of education.

[Hannah Bell]

100. the cram schools are private, they're not "the school system" -- which is what's under comparison.

i understand the data is old, but the trend has been to less hours in school, not more, & even 20 years ago, the time was not straight instructional time. in my high school, for example, the students were responsible for cleaning the school: that was part of their school time.

[Art_from_Ark]

104. I understand that-- but in Japan, nearly every student

in an academic track ends up going to a cram school at one time or another (sometimes for several years), and this should be taken into account when making comparisons with Japan.

Of course, there is less time being devoted to actual instruction in Japanese public schools, but students often spend a lot of extra hours in private study schools outside of regular school hours.

[Hannah Bell]

112. I think we're both saying something similar: the school systems aren't directly comparable

without knowing the rest of the variables.

like:

- japanese kids are tracked into academic/non-academic & by age 15-16 that's fixed.

- cram schools are private, typically small group instruction

- whereas they used to be mainly to prepare for the university entrance exams, juku have moved down the age scale even to elementary-age (& this, combined with the shortening of the school year, can be seen as japan's version of privatization, because the testing regimen that tracks kids & determines their future hasn't changed)

- the japanese system is intensely competitive & pressurized, such that high suicide rates for kids are a "social problem"

- japan's distribution of income is more egalitarian than that of the us, with a consequently lower poverty rate

[Art_from_Ark]

115. I can't disagree with anything in your post

except for the testing regimen-- there has been a change, albeit slight. Students are now allowed to take high school or college entrance exams for two different public schools, and there is also a recommendation system that allows students to skip the exams if the recommendation is strong enough (just implemented in the last 2 or 3 years)

[Hannah Bell]

116. thanks for the info

[Art_from_Ark]

117. Come to think of it, the recommendation system has been around

for at least 4 years. It has helped to relieve stress for a lot of students and parents.

[Hannah Bell]

118. but wouldn't it be the top/best-connected students who get the recs?

[Art_from_Ark]

119. Sometimes, all it takes is some ability and a determined push in the final year

Students who were so-so or even slackers in their first year or two can make a big effort in their 3rd year, especially for the transition between junior high and high school.

Let's say Taro had been piddling around junior high school for a year or two, but toward the end of his second year he visited a public high school that he really liked. He talks to his guidance counselor about the requirements for gaining admission to the high school and is told that if he buckles down in his final year and focuses on the subjects that the high school in question pays particular attention to, he may be able to get a recommendation. I know two or three kids without any special connections who have been able to go this route.

[MadHound]

56. Fine, throw away what educational psychologists, teachers, and education experts know

Who cares what Montessori, Vygotsky and Piaget have to say? Who gives a rip about doing what is best for the student? School schedules must fit into the preconceived notions and schedules of adults after all.
Oh, and the economy, well it can go to hell too.

Another fool who heard something from somebody at some point two decades ago, and now thinks that this makes them an expert in education.:eyes:

Please, when it comes to education, please educate yourself.

[uncommon]

64. Why can't you at least admit that this works in some other places?

It makes you sound just as ignorant as you are saying others are.

:eyes: indeed

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. Sweden , and Norway

have shorter summers, last time I checked they are WAY AHEAD of us... it is not just the length of the school year, BUT THEY HAVE a shorter summer.

So does France.

Of the OECD economies we have the LONGEST SUMMER.

As they say proof, pudding and all that.

Oh and THEY ARE USING Montessori techniques in many of these countries too, but hell, whatever.

You really are against ANY FUCKING CHANGE, aren't you?

[JuniperLea]

81. I was taught in Montessori

And my daughter was as well. She was in Spanish immersion in a Montessori academy.

I'm all for looking into Scandinavian school policies and curriculum. I know many Norwegians in media and in music, and without exception, they are all obviously very well educated and they speak several languages.

We need to change something. The stupid will be the death of us.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. We do need to change something

but change is damn scary for a lot of people. So they will fight tooth and nail, even when change is obviously needed.

Now change for the sake of change is not what we need, nor fads. But we need to change. The status quo IS NOT acceptable, period.

[Hannah Bell]

101. we had the longest summer in 1960, too. the summer isn't the problem.

[mzteris]

76. last I looked Wake County was in the US...

and I'm not sure what Montessori has to do with this conversation -

my son's old Montessori charter immersion public school was on a modified year round schedule (no tracks).


Wake county uses year arounds because it made a lot of ECONOMIC sense for them. Overcrowding is out of control. Using the track out year round program for the traditional schools saves them a whole lot of money!

[GermanDem]

67. The tourism argument doesn't fly.

My children are off for 3 months in the summer here in Oklahoma. Last summer, I spent more than $1000 on camps, babysitters, etc. that I would have LOVED to spend on our vacation instead! Nobody takes 3-month vacations. 8 weeks off would be more than enough. German kids have 6-week summer vacations, and Germans travel much more than Americans do.

Obama is absolutely right, US kids are falling more and more behind when compared to students in other countries (e.g. in the PISA-study), especially in the sciences. My husband, who is German and teaches Biology at the college level tells me every day how horrible the science background of his US students is compared to the students he had in Germany. The long summer vacation is just one of many other problems the US school system needs to address. The other big one is cultural. Sciences aren't "sexy" in the US. Just look at a university lab here. Almost no Americans, all international students. The good American students go into the "pre-wealth" majors as we call them: pre-health, law and business.

[dionysus]

98. i agree with you on something, who knew

[snooper2]

111. And your post continues the dumbing down of America..

nt

[smalll]

3. Honestly, what we require students to learn in school is not that difficult.

The biggest problem in problem schools is that students have little to no interest in learning. So we're going to fix that problem by keeping them in school longer?

[handmade34]

4. I don't think that is accurate

as a mother and former teacher, I know that kids start school curious and fun and ready to absorb everything... in a healthy environment that wonderment grows... and yes I believe we need to have year round schooling

[smalll]

6. Well, let me amend that. I've seen that myself -- kids start school curious --

even in the inner cities, young children have an innocent, child-like curiosity. But once they hit puberty, that interest gets drowned in "popular culture" values.

Also, I taught in high schools for 6 years. All teachers noticed that most kids, even in high school, started September when school began at their best. By May, most of them had switched off. I shudder to think how those kids would be if they had to face year-round school. In fact, from my experiences in high schools in underprivileged areas, I'd almost want to propose the alternative -- LESS school -- how about, one month on, one month off? 6 months of school a year. In the places I taught, I think you'd have far fewer discipline problems and more motivated students if that could actually be done.

[mzteris]

8. the "year round" model has breaks built into the year

Wake County NC has a lot of year-round programs - and teachers and (most) parents and students LOVE IT!!

You get more frequent three week breaks during the school "year" so the burnout factor is reduced significantly - usually on 9 wks, off 3 weeks.

Also, you don't have that "loss of learning" that occurs with the two month break in "summer" - so then you don't lose until Thanksgiving reviewing the previous year.

It is much more efficient in terms of personnel, resources, AND - LEARNING!


Here's a calendar showing all the schedules - traditional, year-round, modified traditional (a sort-of year round without the "tracks")
http://www.wcpss.net/Calendars/2010-11/2010-11-comprehensive-calendar.pdf

[handmade34]

13. thanks for the link

good schedule

[handmade34]

10. I envision year round school under an entirely different paradigm

my experience is that by the end of 4th grade the kids are jaded when life is rough, parents are stressed, the schools is poor, the teachers are bad...

I had an opportunity to work for a couple of years in a small alternative school for at-risk kids. We were free to use many methods of teaching that weren't possible in the public schools. I taught Social Studies and for discussion we had a lounge with sofas and pillows. We went to a farm a few days a week and went swimming in the local brook when it got hot... not possible in large schools but changes can be made...

Year round school offers more continuity and within that framework (because you are working with the kids year round) there can be much more flexibility. I strongly believe that kids need time to play and imagine and freely create and a longer year offers that. I would suggest a few weeks here and there off, but not enough time off to lose the connect with academics. I believe more school, structured much differently, would be positive.

[SheilaT]

14. So how do you suppose other countries

with much longer school years, keep the kids interested?

There is a reason our kids are behind the rest of the world in almost every (or is it every?) academic measure out there? We have the shortest school year in the industrialized world. We could undoubtedly learn a lot from how other countries do it.

I understand that in France the kids also have school on Saturday. At least they did according to my son's French language text back in about 1998.

[Art_from_Ark]

47. Japan used to have Saturday school

but it was mostly abolished about 10 years ago. The higher-end public high schools still have it, as do some private schools, but the elementary schools have abolished it.

I don't think that having a "short" school year in itself explains why American kids are "behind the rest of the world" in academic measures. There are a whole lot of variables that need to be taken into consideration. One of these variables is, who is being tested in other countries, versus who is being tested in the US. Are other countries only testing their "best and brightest", versus the general school population in the US? Also, a lot of kids have abilities that simply cannot be quantified. If a kid has a talent for art or music or dance, does it really matter if he/she does not do well on an advanced math test?

Back to "short" school years... It was not uncommon in the '60s to have 3 whole months of summer vacation. Three glorious months, I might add. Those summers were some of the best times of my life-- swimming, roller skating, bicycling, playing with other kids in the neighborhood, even going to the library and checking out interesting books that were not assigned reading, and which I had plenty of time to read. Kids really need to have time to be kids. Goodness knows it will be drudgery for most of them once they enter the workforce.

[HughBeaumont]

50. "But in order to be prepared for the WORK world, they must be miserable NOW!!!"

Supporters of this garbage must have loved school and found it to be a rewarding and nice experience. School was a fucking miserable "stay-in-line" march of hopelessness for me and I'm sure countless thousands of other students.

The constant busywork, homework that consumed just about every ounce of free time, studying for hours and getting average to below average grades as a result, bad teachers who should have retired years previous berating you in class and making you feel like even less of a piece of shit than you already feel, useless classes that seemed to get longer with each passing day .. .. oh, did I mention the coital mistake bullies, douchebaggity cliques, drug use, and students of both genders being assholes for the sake of being assholes?

Yes, I mean, who WOULDN'T want to forego the one escape you have from this idiocy, the one glimmer of hope in a sewer of a life . . . to trudge through this lake of liquid manure ALL year ROUND? After all, those douchebags are going to be a hell of a lot less surly if you take THEIR summer away and they'll perhaps leave you alone, right? Hey, who needs FUN? Was it Hegel or Red Forman who said "To be a well adjusted adult later in life, you have to be miserable NOW! That's just good parenting."

Life isn't about FUN, and the sooner us untermensch drones get that through our thick skulls, the better off we'll BE. :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Pro-summer vacation, ANTI-year round school.

[Art_from_Ark]

52. I wonder how many proponents of year-round schools

got to enjoy a 3-month summer vacation? I simply couldn't imagine going to school in mid-June. The swimming pool was open, the weather was great. Damn-- Summer of '69, probably the very best summer in my life-- 3 months of bliss.

Absolutely, Pro-summer vacation, ANTI-year round school.

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. I did and three months is TOO LONG

the last two years of high school the government cut the summer vacation by TWO WEEKS, and we did not miss them.

For all I care, they could have cut the vacation to eight weeks, and we would have been fine too.

[Art_from_Ark]

95. I can see where another two weeks of high school

might not have mattered in your last year, because you would never be returning to high school after graduation anyway. I can also see where many students might have appreciated that extra two weeks of their senior year if they were being pressured to enter the workforce right after graduation, or if their parents were the type who would kick them out as soon as they got their diploma. At any rate, did you learn anything special during those extra two weeks, anything that might have helped push up US test scores up a notch compared to other countries?

At my high school (as well as junior high and elementary schools), kids were getting spring fever in mid-May. Delaying the start of summer vacation by two weeks wouldn't have accomplished much in the way of academic achievement. And, like with Hugh Beaumont, there were a lot of kids who were ready to get away from classmates who were real pains in the butt during the school year.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

80. Thanks for the Bryan Adams earworm. -nt

[Art_from_Ark]

88. Never heard of Bryan Adams

but looking at the Internet, it looks like he has a song called Summer of '69. OK. At any rate, it was a great summer for me.

[NuttyFluffers]

108. i experienced year-round, quarter, semester, and trimester schooling.

year-round was best. by far.

you seem to be under the illusion that there is no fun to be had in this structure. there are vacation breaks, they just occur after a stretch of school and don't last way too long. some people do not like summer weather (i personally loathe it because i dislike heat and sunlight); this way kids get a sizable break around the other seasons. besides, it's like getting so many weeks off from work and using it all up at once. compared to breaking it up in more manageable pieces, using up all your break at once isn't all that great. the reason why school becomes miserable is because Sept - May is such a loooong time. little breaks stops long stretches of drudgery.

also, you get more time to have family vacations. one of the coolest things about my year-round experience is that the school would host activities during break. so if you were bored you could go to school and roller skate, play drama, watch movies, do neat science experiments, play sports, use the playground or swimming pool -- all with supervision and pretty ace school equipment. this helped parents to not worry about day care and to save money for vacations. suddenly the school goes from kiddie jail to a community center where children can sign up for various types of play -- or simply run out and play their own games elsewhere. there was no real economic pressure for parents, and the kids had a great time because they knew they could find some friends and activities whenever they wanted during break. some wanted to stay away from school, fine, they had a whole month to do their own thing.

[Ishoutandscream2]

87. Hugh, have I told ya lately that you are absolutely awesome!

Your posts are always, always spot on!

[Hannah Bell]

55. they don't, necessarily. here's a class in japan: 50 students, some of them sleeping or eating

lunch behind their propped up books.

the teacher droning on oblivious.

this was in osaka city, & not unusual.

the same students were active & engaged in sports, school trips, school clubs & studied on their own because of family & social expectations.

japan has more instructional days but fewer hours in each day spent on actual instruction.

it's not about the time spent in school.

[Art_from_Ark]

57. Japanese students spend a lot of time in nighttime tutorial or "cram" schools

It's a big business in Japan. I've heard that in Kashiwa alone, a city of about 250,000 just outside of Tokyo, there are at least 150 cram schools.

[Hannah Bell]

54. it's ridiculous, isn't it? keep them longer & do test prep so they'll reallllly hate school.

get a new crop of poorly prepared teachers every year & cut out all the frills.

it's kind of like --- uh --- prison. or the military.

which is probably what those kids are being trained for.

[rucky]

5. This I agree with.

[Bucky]

9. Is our teacher and paraprofessional pay competitive with theirs too?

[HockeyMom]

11. Special Needs Kids?

especially with severity or extreme behavior issues? Year round school? I don't think I could do it, and neither could they. We both need our "time out".

I have known far too many teachers once in this field who have said they completed burned out. Why do you think this field is always looking for employees?

[mzteris]

22. It works -

there are more frequent breaks, but not so long as to disrupt the learning process.

The breaks are good for the teachers, too - they suffer far less burnout with a three week break every nine weeks! The teachers I know in NC that were at year-rounds absolutely LOVED IT!!

Those breaks through out the year also gives you an opportunity to do "something different" for your vacations - winter breaks, spring breaks, fall breaks, and summer breaks instead of trying to cram it all into that high priced "summer season".

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. Many special needs kids are in school year round

If their disabilities are severe, they are eligible for Extended School Year.

[HockeyMom]

72. Not only have I worked with special needs kids,over 10 years, I RAISED two

I know all about it and the difference between STATES. NY was A LOT BETTER than Florida; for their rights and mine.

[proud2BlibKansan]

84. Then surely you know that IDEA mandates ESY for special needs kids who qualify

[HockeyMom]

99. That IS the question

WHO qualifies. It's not the same in different states.

[Dappleganger]

15. Our state can barely pay to keep the doors open as it is.

Much less do it year around.

[mzteris]

23. actually schools can save money

by going year round. There's a more efficient use of assets.

[Brickbat]

16. We can't even pay to keep ours open nine months a year, five days a week. Who's going to pay for

this idea?

[mzteris]

24. Wake County saves money by utilizing year-rounds.

You can serve more students with fewer physical resources.

[Brickbat]

38. That's awesome.

I wasn't clear, though -- when I said "we," I mean my school district, which is tiny. We just went to a four-day week to "save money."

[NotThisTime]

41. I agree with the Wake County calendar and other year round calendars around the country

although there are very few

[KamaAina]

17. Are he and Arne going to pay for it?

States are cutting back classroom hours, not increasing them. Hawai'i went to far as to close its public schools for "Furlough Fridays"!

[Yeahyeah]

20. Is it possible that he's a sadist?

[scheming daemons]

21. I'd gladly pay higher taxes to have my kids in school all year

...it would offset the amount I have to pay in the summer to put them into daycare and camp programs while I'm at work.


Plus... they'd learn more.


Win-win.


(of course, my kids wouldn't agree).

[Hekate]

25. Good. We have our kids in school significantly less than other nations, and it shows.

We don't need them at home to help plant and harvest during summer any more.

Hekate

[RB TexLa]

33. Long time overdue

[depakid]

36. All well and good but how are districts going to pay for it?

That's the primary reason why schools have been cutting days off of their calendars.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. I've been pushing for this as long as I've been teaching

We also need to air condition schools and raise teacher pay.

[inna]

39. now, this one I just don't understand, because of not having enough background knowledge.

is it a good idea, really?

[roxiejules]

40. How Germany does school

The claim is we should be more like Germany - great! Here is their schedule according to Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany


The school year in Germany begins in one September and ends the following September. It includes four to six breaks/holidays:

Christmas Break: Two weeks around Christmas and New Year
Carnival Break: One week or two weeks (only in a few states) of February or the beginning of March.
Easter Break: Two weeks of March / April
Whitsun Break: About one week around Whitsun
Summer Break: Six weeks from July to September
Autumn Break: Two weeks in October/November
Schools can also schedule two or three special days off per term.

School usually starts between 7.30 a.m. and 8:15 a.m. and can finish as early as 12; instruction in lower classes almost always ends before lunch. In higher grades, however, afternoon lessons are very common and periods may have longer gaps without teacher supervision between them. Ordinarily, afternoon classes are not offered every day and/or continuously until early evening, leaving pupils with large parts of their afternoons free of school; some schools (Ganztagsschulen), however, offer classes or mainly supervised activities throughout the afternoons in order to offer supervision of the pupils rather than an increase in teaching. Afternoon lessons can continue until 6 o'clock. Depending on the school, there are breaks of 5 to 10 minutes after each period.

Schools are subject to state laws, not federal. Oh, and college is mostly tuition-free.

[Karmadillo]

51. +1

nt

[InvisibleTouch]

86. They have school on Saturdays too...

...or at least they did decades ago when I lived there. I remember being so happy that I didn't have to go to the German school! And when I read about a push for a longer school year, all I can think is, "I'm so glad I'm not in school anymore!" It was torture for me. Not the intellectual and educational aspects (I loved learning), but rather the "social" aspects. I didn't turn off my mind over Summer vacation - quite the contrary, I would read and read and read. I don't think the issue with our schools today is that kids aren't in school long enough, but that a true love of learning (as opposed to rote drudgery and enforced conformity) isn't being conveyed - because if you have that passion and yearn to pursue it in your own way, then longer school hours become more of a hindrance than a boost to one's education. Just IMO, of course.

[Arkana]

43. He's going to piss the teachers' unions off big time with this one, and I can't say I agree with him

on a longer school year. It's not easy to keep hyperactive kids engaged through the hot months of the year and keeping them there longer would exacerbate the issue.

However, I think too many bad teachers are protected in schools--not because of contract negotiations, but because they've schmoozed the right people to stay where they are.

[johnaries]

46. We should go to a year-round school schedule.

Every study ever done shows that would solve a lot of problems with our current system. It's ridicuous that we stick with a system based on farm schedules when the majority of students don't live (or work) on farms. I'm sorry that a lot of teachers won't be able to take those lucrative part-time summer jobs - maybe we should pay them more for a full-time position? Maybe more qualified people would actually apply for teaching jobs, then!

[Dorian Gray]

48. The idea

would have to work with state governments who are giving their teachers unpaid furlough days this year because they can't pay them their full salaries.

If they can't afford the time they are working now, how will they afford a longer school year?

[grahamhgreen]

49. Maybe smaller class sizes????

[Lucian]

59. That's stupid. Like kids don't hate school enough already.

And how in the hell are schools going to pay for it when they can hardly pay to keep the school open for nine months?

[uncommon]

65. Maybe kids wouldn't hate school if school was interesting and engaging.

My daughter loves school. She loves it every single day. I loved it too.

Also, pop culture reinforces the idea that school is boring and awful.

[mzteris]

75. +100!

:thumbsup:

[msanthrope]

79. My daughter loves her school, too.

She's lucky to be at a good one.

[Change Happens]

62. I would like to see 10 months AND 8-4 school hours.

[4_TN_TITANS]

66. And who will pay for that?

Or will teachers be "expected" to take the same pay for a longer school year? Christ, we don't even fully fund education as it is... Obama's political capital to spend with the NEA ran out long ago, this would be dead on arrival.

[Hannah Bell]

103. no need to pay, just bust the unions & hire temps. that's the plan.

school - holding pens for the proles.

[alcuno]

82. How's he going to pay to air-condition the buildings?

In our brick multi-story buildings it is hot, hot, hot on 90 degree plus days with NO AIR-CONDITIONING! Imagine that you are in a classroom full of middle-school students on the 3rd floor facing west. The temp in the room is like 100 degrees at 3 in the afternoon.

[krabigirl]

85. no, we don't. No thanks..cut the sports first, thanks.

[Panaconda]

92. What about the sunshine

and the cool breeze on the face?

What about walking around with your friends with all day to do what you want?

They don't call them institutions for nothing.

[hughee99]

94. In all the discussions on universal single-payer health care I've read

I've never seen as much concern as I've seen on this single thread about how we'd pay for something.

[JVS]

96. Universal single payer health care would presumably be funded federally.

Schools are generally funded on a local level with additional funding coming from the state and federal governments. As a result of this, there are already a lot of school districts that have serious funding shortages even before an extension of the school year comes into play. In contrast, our insurance industry's continued existence leaches massive quantities of money from the public and redistributes them as profit for their shareholders.

[Kringle]

97. Obama's solution for children being under-obese...more school ..nt

[TexasObserver]

102. it's a terrible idea

Students have plenty of school days. They don't need more. They need to learn better in the days they're in school. More days in school won't transform bad students into good ones. The problem is students, many whom have parents who simply do not require their children to perform well in school.

Teacher are teaching everything students need to know. The problem is not the teachers, and it's not the number of days in the school year. Too many students are lazy, unmotivated, and lack parenting that respects the educational process.

[NuttyFluffers]

105. i prefer year-round school (which is 3 months on, 1 month off).

in the end it makes for a more pleasurable experience. families have more leeway for vacation time. and kids get a month break right before they get completely sick of school. also you don't have that "OMG, i forgot how to use a pencil and write my own name" effect kids have after coming from 3 months of vacation. things stay relatively fresh, and there is just enough time to recuperate from mental fatigue.

however, if Obama is interested in mimicking Japan or Korea's school system, i wholly oppose his efforts. really, their system is atrocious now and most of the populace is quite displeased with the direction it is going. they are literally making their kids study to death -- it's double minus ungood. children need at least 3 months of rest throughout the year. play is just as crucial as study for human development.

[theophilus]

107. I'd vote for longer days by two or three hours. Start a little later. End later.

Also, start the year in September. This would save a ton on cooling in the summer. Please, no longer "year" though. Schools need to be turned into centers that have large libraries and lots of things going on into the night. Health clinics and many other things. IMO.

[QC]

110. In Florida, that will just mean more days dedicated to FCAT prep.

Is there any hard evidence that a longer school year actually helps, or is this just more of that corporate "reform" bullshit?

[PA Democrat]

113. Regression/ recoupment cycle wastes a lot of time.

Think of how much time is spent every fall reviewing material from the previous school year. I've always though year- round school with maybe four breaks of 2 to 3 weeks each makes more sense.

[GSLevel9]

114. mehhh... don't like it.

just increases costs... and teachers won't like it as it screws their vacation.