Joel Klein says PE teachers should earn less than math & science teachers

[Hannah Bell]

Good, he's pissing off the jocks too. More support for the push-back. Thanks, joel, you weenie.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/health-1/joel-kleins-insult-to-physical.html?wprss=answer-sheet


I thought this was a good letter:

Joel Klein did on The View what he is constitutionally driven to. It's what made him the Chancellor of the nation's largest public school system: a talent for promoting division. In this specific case it was to divide math and science teachers from physical education teachers.

A capitalist economy carefully guards ruling class unity. See George W. Bush holding hands with Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah. See Dick Cheney's Halliburton relocate to Dubai.

Meanwhile, the system hammers relentlessly on every human relationship in an attempt to break every bond between working people. It will if it can reduce every person to their weakest and most easily exploitable state of existence, the individual. The system ultimately seeks to "atomize" society, the formula for maximum profits, at least until that society collapses.

Look underneath the every one of their tools: merit pay, school choice, vouchers, standardized testing, charters, Teach For America, union bashing, and you'll find a wedge being driven between people.

Unity!

Posted by: natturner | September 30, 2010 12:22 PM

[stray cat]

1. Do all teachers in a school make the same income except for years in the job?

[diddlysquat]

2. Pretty much

You are paid by years of experience and number of college credits over the BA.

[LWolf]

5. There is a pay scale

based on years of experience + amount of education, including continuing education.

[WinkyDink]

22. Regarding subject matter as the lone factor: YES. (That is your real question.)

WHICH is why Standardized Testing for Job Security is completely biased AGAINST the major-academic-subject teachers.

[kelly1mm]

36. Not everywhere. In my SD, teachers who teach state standardized tested

subjects receive an extra $1000 per year. Not really very much (about 2%).

[TBF]

3. Some folks won't be happy until all jobs are volunteer. nt

[MattBaggins]

4. You should thank our corporate masters for letting you breath

[Starry Messenger]

7. Hell, we should pay them for the privilege of working for them!

:sarcasm:

[PVnRT]

9. Especially those fucking teachers

God damn those fucking bunch of freeloading, lazy union jackoffs!

:sarcasm:

[Starry Messenger]

12. Sorry, I couldn't hear you!

My mink AFT earmuffs, you know. Plus they are using the buffer on the yacht this morning. No matter how many times I flog the crew, they always miss those details.

[LanternWaste]

16. no one has implied an either/or solution to this. ..

I don't think it's a zero sum equation as no one has implied an either/or solution to this. Believing a sector is overcompensated does not necessarily lead to abolition of pay for that sector.

[TBF]

18. I apologize for not including the sarcasm icon -

didn't think I needed to but I was mistaken.

[WinkyDink]

23. Oh, I think they'd be quite content to offer slave-wages.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. So which P.E. teacher pissed in Joel's Wheaties?

[w8liftinglady]

8. I do have an issue with football coaches making "more" than senior professors

in state universities...

http://www.texastribune.org/library/data/government-employee-salaries/

Top 25 Salaries
Name Agency Title Salary
Mack Brown The University of Texas at Austin Head Coach $5,100,000
Richard D Barnes The University of Texas at Austin Head Coach $2,150,000
Michael F Sherman Texas A&M University COACH $1,700,000
Thomas Tuberville Texas Tech University Head Coach $1,500,000
Gail A Goestenkors The University of Texas at Austin Head Coach $1,040,000
Scott B Ransom University of North Texas Health Science Center President $904,562
William L Muschamp The University of Texas at Austin Asst Coach $900,000
August E Garrido The University of Texas at Austin Head Coach $850,000
Francisco G Cigarroa University of Texas System Chancellor $750,000
Clarence W Byrne Texas A&M University Athletic Director $690,000
Martin S Weiss University of North Texas Health Science Center Assistant Professor $675,000
Darrell D Dodds The University of Texas at Austin Athletics Director $627,109
William C Powers The University of Texas at Austin President $600,600
Kenneth I Shine University of Texas System Exec Vc For Health Affr $600,000
Lee F Jackson University of North Texas System Chancellor $581,028
David Michael Lichtman University of North Texas Health Science Center Professor $560,004
Russell A Wagner University of North Texas Health Science Center Associate Professor $550,008
Mckinney Michael D Texas A&M System Chancellor $533,816
Thomas W Gilligan The University of Texas at Austin Dean $525,000
Charles Anthony De Berardinis University of North Texas Health Science Center Associate Professor $500,004
Mark L Turgeon Texas A&M University COACH $500,000
John A Griswold Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center Department Chairperson $493,000
Scott W Dahlbeck Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center Physician $485,000
Thomas Harris State of Texas Chief Investment Officer $480,000
John C Baldwin Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center Professor $450,000


edit to add...all my sons played/play Texas high school football..it is what boys do in Texas,don't ya know.All their coaches taught,too.

[snappyturtle]

10. Athletics brings lots of money to institutions of high learning.

I think what's most interesting about the list is that there is only one woman listed.

[w8liftinglady]

13. well...this IS Texas...women know their place.

[HelenWheels]

15. Athletics spend a lot of money

They might make money but they spend as much or more than they keep. Factor in field and stadium upkeep, practice field upkeep, busing to games and practice, uniforms, salaries, scooters and cars given to players to use to get to practice, cameras for filming of games. Then look at the costs the kids pay for the injuries they incur. I would get rid of football altogether.

[WinkyDink]

24. True. But this isn't the movies; coaches don't have to get wage hikes to bring in players.

I think my PSU will still get good players long after JoePa retires.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. Bring a lot, and cost a LOT.

When you consider the amount spent on coaches, facilities, travel to & from events, recruiting players, recruiting scandals, payoffs, insurance, medical care for injured players, law suits against the college when players get in trouble (how much did the Duke lacrosse players cost Duke - and they were acquitted) and on and on and on, are they really worth the cost?

[snappyturtle]

39. I agree with you..I think. Are these programs really worth the cost?

All I can say is that as a PE major at Indiana University I lost a spot on the Student Athletic Board for my failure to give the athletic program enough credit for the number of alumni donations the university received because of athletics. The powers at that time anyway really believed there were donations that would not have been made were it not for athletics. Probably true....sadly.

[Posteritatis]

40. And how much of that goes right back into athletics? (nt)

[trumad]

11. A winning football team brings millions into a campus...

[w8liftinglady]

14. and yet college tuition continues to skyrocket...the millions don't go towards the students

oh,and for comparison...here's how the "unclean" are paid by the state of Texas
(Reminder-poverty level is $21K)
Job Titles
Title Maximum Salary Median Salary Number of Positions
Teacher $105,116 $50,140 22013
Correc Officer V $37,991 $35,784 8911
Correc Offcr III $35,784 $31,838 8005
Police Officer $82,553 $56,112 7808
Correc Officer IV $34,720 $33,703 6838
Mental Retardation Asst I $26,745 $20,532 4898
H/Srvc Spec III $43,770 $30,603 4214
Bus Operator $47,426 $42,057 3648
Dallas Police Dept - Uniform $176,923 $58,637 3557
Bus Driver $41,286 $20,534 3469


And-I guarantee...there are VERY few teachers making on the high end...those in the DISD haven't had a raise in 3 years.
And-the correctional officer pay is so great...people wonder why there are so many repeat offenders and prison incidents.

[Dash87]

17. PE is very important for our young kids.

They need to run around during the day to get exercise, especially with child obesity becoming such a problem.

Gym teachers are very important! :)

♥

[JCMach1]

20. +1 if anything we need more PE and PE teachers

Just measure the roundness of our kids...

[w8liftinglady]

26. I agree with that 100%..PE has gone by the wayside...

and the kids definitely need health class to return.

[JCMach1]

31. Seriously, get those ADHD kids running around for an hr. everyday and see how much it helps

Ritalin sales will plummet... oh wait, that's why it WON'T happen...

I have a nephew who is definitely showing signs of ADHD (he is just into KG this year, but went to pre-K last year). He had all kinds of problems there. However, he used to spend most of the time at the grandmothers in a city environment. The grandma is paranoid about her stuff so the kid was never allowed to play anywhere but the family room. Even there, the grandmother forbid him to make a mess... i.e. play.

Frakkin' hell and we wonder why our kids are HD. He has no outlet for his energy. When I was his age I would be running around our property, playing in the neighboring woods and generally rocking every bit of kid energy I had.

Kids today, just don't get a lot of outlets without PE.

[Javaman]

30. +1000 nt

[crazylikafox]

33. yes, they're important, BUT

math & science is a more difficult subject & we have a shortage of available candidates that actually KNOW their subjects. Why not pay them more so we can better candidates? The emphasis of athletics over academics in this country is part of our problem, not the solution.

I don't think the reduction in gym classes in this country is due to the lack of available teachers to teach PE. It's due to the lack of school funding.

[rucky]

42. There's not an emphasis on athletics.

In the primary and secondary levels. hardly any.

The emphasis is on the money behind athletics that are popular to watch. That has nothing to do with physical fitness, proper health, team work and nutrition that every kid really really needs to learn and practice.

Plus, if there were PE every day, classroom teachers would have an easier time managing the kids looking for an outlet.

[rucky]

41. The ones I went to grad school with were very talented.

The most I learned about classroom management came from my class w/ the PE cohort.

They have the same student loan bill as I do. They deserve the same pay.

[TBF]

19. Wedges -

just another way the bosses divide us to keep their scam (Capitalism) going...

[Tatiana]

21. PE is very important. Plus most PE teachers also teach Health courses.

At our school our PE teachers teach PE, coach sports teams, and rotate teaching health and driver's education courses(including road/behind the wheel) to name a few of their responsibilities. Some also teach sex ed. courses.

Nice way for Klein to stereotype and paint with a broad brush.

[depakid]

25. Wake me up when Joe Klien has an original thought...

or some analysis of note.

[hayu_lol]

29. PE teachers in public school systems should be paid as...

coaches, less than teachers, except for those qualified to teach academic classes. Most coaches in our school system here in Klamath Falls are total failures as elementary school teachers...junior high 'Hygiene' classes...and in any high school class that requires more than a warm body in a seat.

One exception to this locally...is a coach who teaches AP US history and AP Civics and whose work at this high level is outstanding. Coaches are usually given stupid or dumbed down classes at which they are something less than inspired and the students even less so.

With that one exception(high school), the rest of the coaches have been disasters.

[bherrera]

28. Sensible idea to pay more for the higher level education topics

it should be evident it is more difficult to employ a high quality teacher for mathematics and science, than it is for "physical education". Because this is the fact, then it is a good idea to pay teachers according to the difficulty of their teaching topic. I am an engineer, and I do have a higher pay than a man who cleans the street. And this is the way it should be.

The rest of this drivel is not understandable. Break every bond between working people is not relvant to the topic. I am ver bonded with the people at work, but I will not accept a system which pays me the same a person with a lesser education receives. The two subjects are not related.

[JCMach1]

32. big assumption with most educators... Most hold education degrees as their primary terminal degree.

Frankly, given that, there is very little difference between subjects.


Which brings up a problem that hasn't been addressed in the education debate: the quality of our schools of education in higher ed.

There are HUGE differences in these programs and HUGE differences in the graduates they produce.

[mainer]

35. Higher degrees should get paid more.

A teacher who has a science degree plus a teaching degree SHOULD get paid more. I think that when it comes to high school math and science, teachers should have science as their primary degree.

[Taitertots]

34. I'm more concerned that athletes get paid more than mathematicians and scientists

Both groups of teachers need to be paid more.

Lets stop funneling the weatlth of the nation to the people who contribute the least to society (Speculators and Athletes).

[Manifestor_of_Light]

37. Didn't help me get a job.

I graduated from a very expensive private university, that allegedly has the best pre-med school in the state of Texas. I got a B.A. in Biology. Now when you ask why I didn't get a B.S., this is a highly regarded liberal arts school. U.S. News & World Report has consistently rated it "Best Liberal Arts College West of the Mississippi". At the time I graduated, 30 years ago, they did not offer the B.S.

I remember going on an interview and the jackass asked me why I didn't get a B.S., implying that that was a lesser degree. I told the jackass that Trinity University did not offer a B.S., but he didn't hear me.

Went out and looked for a job teaching high school or junior high biology. Didn't get one. Didn't get any offers. Even for junior high. So I decided this message we got ever since 1957, and Sputnik's launch, that America needs more science and math majors to teach, was a lie.


Who, me, bitter??? :wtf:


That Juris Doctor never got me a job either. That's what I get for having faith in higher education improving my job opportunities. Silly me!!!! :banghead:

[Swamp Rat]

38. I wish art and music teachers were PAID.

You know, had full-time jobs with benefits like the rest.

[Octafish]

43. Divide and Conquer.

Worked for Rome.
Works for Warmongers.