Bidens not the first white guy to say a black guy is articulate.

[trumad]

I hear it constantly especially in the sports world. A young African-American college athlete will get on a show like Jim Rome and after the interview the obligatory "he's very articulate" quote comes rolling out. AND it's not just Jim Rome who's guilty of it.

It just seems to me that white guys in general seem to think that all black guys come from the street and are amazed that they can utter coherent sentences. When they do they're like WOW--- they can talk complete sentences---WOW...they're so articulate. I hear it all the time and every time I hear it I wince with the implications.

Here's the rub with Bidens comments. He may not know it because of his old school ways....but it's an insult. I suspect African-Americans have heard that shit all their lives and when they here it today, it's gotta bug the shit out of them.

[Taverner]

1. It's condescending

Insulting...as if it's some surprise

[ChairmanAgnostic]

10. intent has a big deal to do with something.

and remember, some statements in one context are fine, while in another, are horrible. I am sure that we could find a statement of yours, out of context that would be not taken well by some.

I do know that Biden was getting at, though. Jesse Jackson is not articulate, not even close to Obama. THAT is who he was refering to.

[trumad]

14. Jesse Jackson is not articulate?

Holy shit...are you for real?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

24. Having met him several times, and

knowing his rather nasty history here in Illinois, I am for real.

Jesse is, quite frankly, a thug. He may talk in rhyme, he may sway a religious gathering, but he is NOT articulate on an issue. I've seen him for four decades, and IMHO, he is more charlatan, rather than orator.

[CatWoman]

26. mind sharing some of that history with me?

can you do it whole rhyming, please?

thanks.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

27. Budweiser, Coke, GE, and a few other examples

of threatened blackmail and getting his family members to get extremely profitable seats on a board, no competition franchises, or other personal tidbits that have enriched him and his family members. Forget the black community in Chicago; he cares for them only so far as he can threaten boycotts and worse.

There was a midsized company that was about to grow tremendously. Jesse was threatening to do a sit-in, unless they rewarded "his" community. When it came to final decision, my client realized that all Jesse wanted to do was reward one of his sons. Because of the threats (not so veiled) of boycott, gang activity near their retail offices, and worse, my client ended up closing shop, moving out of state, and relocating to Nevada. over 500 jobs lost in Illinois, thank you very much.

Jesse has used drug warlords to get his way in local politics and against local companies.
Jesse was about to be indicted in the 70s because he mostly stole hundreds of thousands in federal funds for personal use. The feds gave him a choice. close down Push-Excel and create a new group that actually followed the law, (the rainbow coalition) or spend 15-20 years as a guest of the federal government.

except for the gangbangers that he uses and supports, he has no support in and around Chicago. We - black, white, hispanic, liberal, moderate, conservative - have long grown tired of his threats, games and blackmail. Don't even ask how his son "earned" the largest distributorship for beer in Illinois. (and guaranteed to avoid competition by state law). Arthur Wirtz, the insane, greedy and vile owner of the Blackhawks, has the comparable liquor distributorship. there are some great tell all books about Jesse and his many crimes. He is a bad, very bad man.

[CatWoman]

38. how did he threaten them?

did he deluge them with eubonics?

Quick!!!

Who was the winner of last year's Ms. Eubonics contest?
.
.
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.
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.
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Ms. Idaho.

[JacksonWest]

42. He has a lovely singing voice though.

[lancdem]

2. You're absolutely right

You do hear it in sports all the time.

[sniffa]

5. personaLLy, i Love it when they refer to bLack coaches as

"good famiLy men"

tony dungy and Lovie smith are both great famiLy men. they take care of their kids.

[sniffa]

3. it's disgusting actuaLLy

and you'd be Lucky not to get your nose broken over "compLimenting" someone with that.

[trumad]

4. sniffa...how ya doin?

[sniffa]

6. agitated

you?

[trumad]

7. Always

especially on DU.

[Lex]

8. "He's articulate" = "He sounds like a white guy."

Basically.

[shanti]

37. bingo

:thumbsup:

[kiahzero]

9. Obama is easily the best speaker among the 2008 field so far.

It's racist to say that because he's black?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

11. he is far better on his feet than Hillary. Am I insulting white women

by that comparison?

I think too much sensitivity on something like this will make us look foolish to the general public.

[kiahzero]

13. According to the people running with this story, yes.

Any comparison between Clinton and Obama makes you either a racist or a sexist. :eyes:

[kiahzero]

12. More quotes about being articulate

Candy Crowley, CNN: "He is... a very articulate man. ... He was front and center during the Monica Lewinsky impeachment trial of Bill Clinton and was considered very articulate during that time." (January 1, 2003)

Blogger Steve Benen, the Carpetbagger Report: "... he is a very bright, articulate, and aggressive lawmaker." (August 26, 2003)

David Greenberg, Legal Affairs: "Fresh-faced and articulate, he possessed a warmth that his rivals lacked." (January 2004)

Slate partial headline: "... he is bright and articulate and really, really youthful. ..." (February 6, 2004)

Charles Paul Freund, Reason Online: "lmost all the coverage was founded on the theme of him as an articulate, appealing, and energetic political force." (July 7, 2004)

Rob McManamy, the University of Chicago Chronicle: "The charismatic, passionate and articulate ... is speaking out about the need to lift more Americans out of poverty and into the middle class." (March 2, 2006)

David Hampton, clarionledger.com: "He is young, smart, articulate and a good Southerner with moderate tendencies and a heart for traditional Democratic issues." (December 28, 2006)

wikiDemocrats.com: "He's charming, he's smart and he's articulate." (as of January 29, 2007)

Oh... wait, these are about John Edwards. Those racist bastards!

:eyes:

[trumad]

15. So tell me...

why is the word articulate used so much when it comes to a black guy?

[kiahzero]

16. Why was it used so much about Edwards?

Because both are... *gasp* good orators.

[trumad]

18. Oh really---

My op is not correct then?

[kiahzero]

20. No, I don't think it's correct.

I think you're imputing racist thinking where there is none.

[trumad]

21. OK

that's your opinion... I guess you don't see a lot of racism, do you?

[kiahzero]

22. I see plenty of racism.

I don't think calling an articulate person "articulate" qualifies. :shrug:

[shanti]

39. really...

i never hear people saying , "oh, he's soooo articulate", when it's a white guy speaking.

[Beaverhausen]

17. newsflash- it's used for white guys, too

[trumad]

19. Not in the context that I hear it in...mho

[shanti]

40. riiiight

when was the last time you heard it in relation to a white guy????



*crickets*

[marmar]

23. Thank you Trumad.....Someone said it to me the other day, and I was tempted to respond...

"Did you expect me not to be?"

But I didn't, fearing that he would then label me as militant. We just can't win!!! :hurts:

[dmallind]

25. I'm pasty white and I've been called articulate.

Actually quite frequently. I'm an experienced public speaker who does not "um" and "ah" and can construct coherent sentences on the fly. I have developed this skill intentionally and practice it frequently. It has been mentioned in almost all my performance reviews. I am noted for this not because I "sound like whitey". I AM whitey, albeit an immigrant slightly accented whitey. No - I am noted for this because it is an unusual skill in an age when very few people speak in public and very few of those who do - politicians included - do it well.

Now Obama is better than I am, because his delivery is more accentless than mine and his style is more natural and easy (with no false modesty I'm not bad - I have won several prizes - but I'm more of an Ingersoll type anachronism in style). I am trying very hard to find racism in calling him "articulate" when he clearly is articulate beyond the accepted norm even in politics. Now of course only a total loon would not see at the very least subconscious racism in "the first articulate black candidate" but it's "the first" that makes it racist to me, not the "articulate".

I have heard the word used about and to both white athletes and black athletes. There if any prejudice applies it is more likely the prejudice that athletes are unlikely to be articulate regardless of skin color. Although I confess I have heard many many woefully inarticulate athletes being interviewed so perhaps the expectation is not incomprehensible. I am sure that this could look racist in prejudice if you see far more black athelet interviews than white athlete interviews - which could possibly depend on what sports you watch most of. I am 100% positive I have heard the term used as a compliment in NHL interviews, and the odds there are pretty good that the guy was white. Now I have heard it too used in NBA interviews, where the odds are tilted quite a bit toward the likelihood of the interviewee being black.

Is it possible some people would use that descriptor in bigoted surprise at finding a black person who can speak fluently using correct grammar and pronunciation? Sure it is - no doubt. However consider too it's perfectly possible that some people if not most would use that descriptor because it's a valid adjective for the person they are desribing.

One further note is that while I was raised in a rather racist environment and certainly have heard plenty of insults directed towards black people, I have very rarely heard insults directed at the paucity of skilled black orators in history. I mean there's some pretty stellar examples to the contrary! Now yes I have heard many disparaging comments about the speech patterns of the hip-hop youth culture, and of course that is black in origin and in "image" but it has been so co-opted by a large number of white kids that I see that as a complaint about the style and culture more than the race. I can say in all honesty that I hear phrases like "damn kids these days with their pants hanging down by their knees yelling gibberish and playing loud music with no tune" more often than "damn black kids with their pants...."

[Donald Ian Rankin]

28. Articulate is not a pejorative, and most people of any colour aren't.

Being able to express ones thoughts clearly, confidently and coherently is, sadly, a relatively rare ability, and in a randomly-selected member of the public it's worth commenting on.

In a politician it isn't, though - one doesn't get into politics without being articulate.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

29. George Bush?

just thinking out loud.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

31. Very much so, despite what you might think.

He's famous for his malapropisms - some of which I'm fairly sure are deliberate - but compared to the average member of the public he's actually a very good speaker indeed.

[Karenina]

30. WOW DONALD!!!!

Now THAT is the most BLATANTLY RACIST COMMENT you've made to date.

Articulate is not a pejorative, and most people of any colour aren't.

I guess it's a matter of what you MEAN by "articulate."

[Donald Ian Rankin]

32. Are you being ironic?

If not, what are you talking about? Are you under the (incorrect) impression that by "of any colour" I mean "coloured" as opposed to "of any race"?

[Karenina]

33. I WISH I could do a CYA and say yes...

But that wouldn't be the embarassing truth :blush::blush::blush: which is:

I COMPLETELY MISREAD YOUR POST!!!

Go ahead, Donald! Call me a high-strung dumbass!!! I CERTAINLY DESERVE IT for such a blunder. Here, have a frying pan. :spank::spank::spank:

[shanti]

41. self-delete

[NewJeffCT]

34. As somebody who used to report on basketball, it's really prevalent in sports

It seems like every good white player that comes along is compared to a good white player from history, while a good black player is compared to a good black player - even if their games are more comparable to somebody that is of a different race.

Why does a talented white center fielder who can run get compared to Mickey Mantle, while a talented black center fielder who can run gets compared to Willie Mays? While Mays was a better player, both had similar games in that they hit for power and average, played center field, and were fleet of foot.

The same with basketball - any talented white forward that comes along is compared to Larry Bird.

[goodhue]

35. ding ding ding

And the same can be said of nice-looking and clean.
Those who miss the subtle but implicit racism are in denial.

[Beelzebud]

36. So Biden isn't the first racist, that doesn't excuse what he said...

[ProfessorGAC]

43. He Also Said The "First"

Which is patently untrue. So, it's insulting and stupid.
The Professor